[Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Pete Forsyth-2
On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 5:27 PM, SarahSV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]>
>

<snip>

we're hoping to come back with learning <snip>

Dariusz

​, I appreciate that you're responding and trying to find out what happened.
>
> Sarah​


+1

-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Andreas Kolbe-2
In reply to this post by SarahSV
I find it amazing – alarming – unbelievable – that some board members knew,
and did not tell the others.

Andreas

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 1:27 AM, SarahSV <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> > It was tenth several days ago, in Google.com. unfortunate and silly as it
> > may sound, it was not in top ten on Google.pl or .de / .it for that
> matter.
> > I'm not making excuses, just stating the fact.
> >
> > I'm investigating with the BGC what went wrong with the whole process
> (that
> > some Board members did not have full information) and we're hoping to
> come
> > back with learning from this failure, as it was just one point of several
> > that were suboptimal.
> >
> > ​Okay, thank you, ​
> Dariusz
> ​, I appreciate that you're responding and trying to find out what
> happened.
>
> Sarah​
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Ruslan Takayev
In reply to this post by Dariusz Jemielniak-3
Dariusz,

On Tue, Jan 12, 2016 at 8:29 AM, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I'm investigating with the BGC what went wrong with the whole process (that
> some Board members did not have full information) and we're hoping to come
> back with learning from this failure, as it was just one point of several
> that were suboptimal.

In your investigation it might be worthwhile noting that both Boryana
Dineva and Arnnon were at one stage Tesla employees?

My apologies if this has already been raised prior?

Ruslan

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

geni
In reply to this post by Lodewijk
On 9 January 2016 at 08:22, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I suspect they need a few days, based on past experiences. To dig into the
> matter, and prepare an answer relevant parties can agree on.
>
> Lodewijk
>
>
They've had a few days. Any further speculation?



--
geni
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Fæ
In reply to this post by Fæ
Dear Patricio Lorente,

My open letter to the board was six days ago. Could you please take
the following three actions?

1. Acknowledge my open letter sent to you and the board and its
request. This is a courtesy I would expect of the WMF board chair that
needs no discussion or trustee decision making, and is expected within
a day or two, not a week or more.

2. A week has past, so there can be no doubt that you have set a
timetable for talking with Geshuri and for the board of trustees to
make a joint decision as to whether he is fit to remain a trustee.
Please make your timetable public, so that the community is reassured
that formal communications such as this letter to the board are not a
waste of time, and that the WMF chair is not only aware of community
concerns but is taking these questions seriously.

3. Please publish the work-flow of when and how the nomination for
Geshuri came to the board, and make that information public rather
than leaving it to speculation and pundits. Trustee appointments are a
key part of your governance responsibilities and are so fundamental to
confidence in the WMF there is no excuse to keep basic details a
secret. This should include who recommended Geshuri to the board,
there can be no reasons of confidentiality that apply apart from the
personal embarrassment that may arise from poor judgement, and is of
clear public interest if a trustee or past trustee made the
recommendation.

I look forward to seeing you personally take open and transparent
action rather than only acting in secret or through others with
plausible deniability.

Yours sincerely,
Fae

On 7 January 2016 at 10:38, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Patricio Lorente,
>
> I request that the WMF board take immediate action to publish a
> comprehensive account of why you appointed Geshuri as a trustee,
> despite his direct involvement and being named as a defendant in the
> on-going scandal of anticompetitive agreements at Google, or that
> Geshuri chooses to step down from his new position of trust.
>
> This is being separated out as an open letter to the board in a new
> discussion thread, to avoid getting confused with other issues. In the
> light of recent challenges to the WMF with regard to a dramatic loss
> of confidence in their senior management and the politicking behind
> the loss of James Heilman as a trustee openly advocating for
> transparency to the actions of the WMF board, Geshuri's background
> with anticompetitive practices can only damage confidence in the WMF
> board with regard to their duty to hold WMF senior management to
> account and acting with the highest possible accountability and public
> transparency.
>
> Links showing Geshuri's public footprint on this issue:
> 1. http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/2753701/no-poach-scandal-unredacted-steve-jobs-eric-schmidt-paul-otellini
> 2. http://www.lieffcabraser.com/Antitrust/Apple-Google-Silicon-Valley-No-Cold-Calling.shtml
> 3. http://www.courthousenews.com/2015/03/23/google-shareholders-miffed-over-wage-fight.htm
> 4. https://www.quora.com/How-is-Arnnon-Geshuri-current-VP-HR-at-Tesla-and-former-chief-architect-of-staffing-at-Google-good-at-what-he-does
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Fae
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andrew Green <[hidden email]>
> Date: 7 January 2016 at 08:58
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing new Wikimedia Foundation Trustees
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Interesting to note Arnnon's role in the Silicon Valley anti-poaching
> affair: http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/2753701/no-poach-scandal-unredacted-steve-jobs-eric-schmidt-paul-otellini
>
> - Andrew
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Lodewijk
In reply to this post by geni
Yeah, I kinda expected them to at least acknowledge the issue (which
Dariusz did by the way, in his capacity as the chair of the committee
responsible for this process) and outline a timeline for a response, or say
there will be none.

I see Fae wrote a similar email with such surprise. Lets see where that
goes.

Lodewijk

On Wed, Jan 13, 2016 at 5:37 PM, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 9 January 2016 at 08:22, Lodewijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I suspect they need a few days, based on past experiences. To dig into
> the
> > matter, and prepare an answer relevant parties can agree on.
> >
> > Lodewijk
> >
> >
> They've had a few days. Any further speculation?
>
>
>
> --
> geni
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Fæ
In reply to this post by Fæ
We are now approaching 2 weeks since the open letter to the Chairman
of the WMF board. There has been no formal response, nor any
commitment to take action. Consequently a simple open and public vote
of confidence for Geshuri's appointment has been created.

Link:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Vote_of_confidence:Arnnon_Geshuri

Please vote or add your comment there.

Thanks,
Fae

On 7 January 2016 at 10:38, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Patricio Lorente,
>
> I request that the WMF board take immediate action to publish a
> comprehensive account of why you appointed Geshuri as a trustee,
> despite his direct involvement and being named as a defendant in the
> on-going scandal of anticompetitive agreements at Google, or that
> Geshuri chooses to step down from his new position of trust.
>
> This is being separated out as an open letter to the board in a new
> discussion thread, to avoid getting confused with other issues. In the
> light of recent challenges to the WMF with regard to a dramatic loss
> of confidence in their senior management and the politicking behind
> the loss of James Heilman as a trustee openly advocating for
> transparency to the actions of the WMF board, Geshuri's background
> with anticompetitive practices can only damage confidence in the WMF
> board with regard to their duty to hold WMF senior management to
> account and acting with the highest possible accountability and public
> transparency.
>
> Links showing Geshuri's public footprint on this issue:
> 1. http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/2753701/no-poach-scandal-unredacted-steve-jobs-eric-schmidt-paul-otellini
> 2. http://www.lieffcabraser.com/Antitrust/Apple-Google-Silicon-Valley-No-Cold-Calling.shtml
> 3. http://www.courthousenews.com/2015/03/23/google-shareholders-miffed-over-wage-fight.htm
> 4. https://www.quora.com/How-is-Arnnon-Geshuri-current-VP-HR-at-Tesla-and-former-chief-architect-of-staffing-at-Google-good-at-what-he-does
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Fae
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Andrew Green <[hidden email]>
> Date: 7 January 2016 at 08:58
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing new Wikimedia Foundation Trustees
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[hidden email]>
>
>
> Interesting to note Arnnon's role in the Silicon Valley anti-poaching
> affair: http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/2753701/no-poach-scandal-unredacted-steve-jobs-eric-schmidt-paul-otellini
>
> - Andrew
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae



--
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Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Ricordisamoa
In reply to this post by Kevin Gorman
Has Arnnon been actually convicted of a felony? Where is presumption of
innocence?
The firing was part of a larger system he seems unlikely to have set up
on his own volition.
Look at his face
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arnnon_Geshuri_-_January_2016_by_Myleen_Hollero.jpg

Il 08/01/2016 17:43, Kevin Gorman ha scritto:

> I'm going to publicly second (or third, or fifth,) the idea that given
> Arnnon's role in an incident involving illegal anti-poaching agreements he
> should either be removed from the board with haste, or the board should
> publish an incredibly good reason as to why he should remain on it.  Keep
> in mind that Arnnon wasn't a bystander to this scandal, he actively fired a
> recruiter who failed to follow the terms of an illegal anti-poaching
> agreement in less than one hour of being informed about it in the first
> place.  I like to think of Wikimedia as a relatively humane movement, and
> there are very few situations where I'm comfortable with someone who is
> that comfortable with the idea of firing an employee (who had presumably
> been there for some time) within sixty minutes of learning the employee
> didn't follow an illegal agreement having the degree of influence over the
> movement that members of the Board of Trustees have.
>
> The Wikimedia movement is not a movement whose direction should be set by
> someone with that degree of callousness - and the fact that he happily
> participated in the sort of anti-competitive agreement he did, which he
> must have known was illegal and which exposed his former employers to not
> insignificant liability, brings forth significant doubt as to whether or
> not he can reasonably be trusted to carry out his fiduciary duties as a
> trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation.
>
> ----
> Kevin Gorman
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 5:27 AM, Andreas Kolbe<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> My apologies. I just noticed the resolutions were in fact added on January
>> 6, 2016.[1]
>>
>> They are dated December 9, 2015. Both appointments were unanimous.
>>
>> [1]
>>
>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Resolutions&diff=104423&oldid=104354
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Andreas Kolbe<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> The resolutions and voting records for these recent appointments have not
>>> yet been posted tohttps://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolutions
>>>
>>> Could the page please be brought up to date?
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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>>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Pete Forsyth-2
Ricordisamoa, I don't believe anybody has said he was convicted of a felony
(though there was, briefly, a related inaccuracy on the Meta page). The
details are explored pretty well here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cullen328/Arnnon_Geshuri#Geshuri.27s_personal_role

-Pete
[[User:Peteforsyth]]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 6:12 PM, Ricordisamoa <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Has Arnnon been actually convicted of a felony? Where is presumption of
> innocence?
> The firing was part of a larger system he seems unlikely to have set up on
> his own volition.
> Look at his face
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arnnon_Geshuri_-_January_2016_by_Myleen_Hollero.jpg
>
>
> Il 08/01/2016 17:43, Kevin Gorman ha scritto:
>
>> I'm going to publicly second (or third, or fifth,) the idea that given
>> Arnnon's role in an incident involving illegal anti-poaching agreements he
>> should either be removed from the board with haste, or the board should
>> publish an incredibly good reason as to why he should remain on it.  Keep
>> in mind that Arnnon wasn't a bystander to this scandal, he actively fired
>> a
>> recruiter who failed to follow the terms of an illegal anti-poaching
>> agreement in less than one hour of being informed about it in the first
>> place.  I like to think of Wikimedia as a relatively humane movement, and
>> there are very few situations where I'm comfortable with someone who is
>> that comfortable with the idea of firing an employee (who had presumably
>> been there for some time) within sixty minutes of learning the employee
>> didn't follow an illegal agreement having the degree of influence over the
>> movement that members of the Board of Trustees have.
>>
>> The Wikimedia movement is not a movement whose direction should be set by
>> someone with that degree of callousness - and the fact that he happily
>> participated in the sort of anti-competitive agreement he did, which he
>> must have known was illegal and which exposed his former employers to not
>> insignificant liability, brings forth significant doubt as to whether or
>> not he can reasonably be trusted to carry out his fiduciary duties as a
>> trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation.
>>
>> ----
>> Kevin Gorman
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 5:27 AM, Andreas Kolbe<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>> My apologies. I just noticed the resolutions were in fact added on January
>>> 6, 2016.[1]
>>>
>>> They are dated December 9, 2015. Both appointments were unanimous.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>>
>>>
>>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Resolutions&diff=104423&oldid=104354
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Andreas Kolbe<[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The resolutions and voting records for these recent appointments have not
>>>> yet been posted tohttps://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolutions
>>>>
>>>> Could the page please be brought up to date?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>>> New messages to:[hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

George William Herbert
In reply to this post by Ricordisamoa
There was a finding of civil, not criminal, liability in the case.  Against the companies as a whole not individuals.

Generally such never becomes individual liability or criminality.


George William Herbert
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 6:12 PM, Ricordisamoa <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Has Arnnon been actually convicted of a felony? Where is presumption of innocence?
> The firing was part of a larger system he seems unlikely to have set up on his own volition.
> Look at his face https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arnnon_Geshuri_-_January_2016_by_Myleen_Hollero.jpg
>
> Il 08/01/2016 17:43, Kevin Gorman ha scritto:
>> I'm going to publicly second (or third, or fifth,) the idea that given
>> Arnnon's role in an incident involving illegal anti-poaching agreements he
>> should either be removed from the board with haste, or the board should
>> publish an incredibly good reason as to why he should remain on it.  Keep
>> in mind that Arnnon wasn't a bystander to this scandal, he actively fired a
>> recruiter who failed to follow the terms of an illegal anti-poaching
>> agreement in less than one hour of being informed about it in the first
>> place.  I like to think of Wikimedia as a relatively humane movement, and
>> there are very few situations where I'm comfortable with someone who is
>> that comfortable with the idea of firing an employee (who had presumably
>> been there for some time) within sixty minutes of learning the employee
>> didn't follow an illegal agreement having the degree of influence over the
>> movement that members of the Board of Trustees have.
>>
>> The Wikimedia movement is not a movement whose direction should be set by
>> someone with that degree of callousness - and the fact that he happily
>> participated in the sort of anti-competitive agreement he did, which he
>> must have known was illegal and which exposed his former employers to not
>> insignificant liability, brings forth significant doubt as to whether or
>> not he can reasonably be trusted to carry out his fiduciary duties as a
>> trustee of the Wikimedia Foundation.
>>
>> ----
>> Kevin Gorman
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 5:27 AM, Andreas Kolbe<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>> My apologies. I just noticed the resolutions were in fact added on January
>>> 6, 2016.[1]
>>>
>>> They are dated December 9, 2015. Both appointments were unanimous.
>>>
>>> [1]
>>>
>>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Resolutions&diff=104423&oldid=104354
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2016 at 1:22 PM, Andreas Kolbe<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>> The resolutions and voting records for these recent appointments have not
>>>> yet been posted tohttps://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolutions
>>>>
>>>> Could the page please be brought up to date?
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>>> New messages to:[hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe:https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Florence Devouard-3
In reply to this post by Fæ
I decided to support that vote.

This has not been an easy decision because I find it *tremendously*
painful to vote against a person and it hurts me in my feelings to do so.
I hoped very dearly that the board would actually issue a statement that
would have helped me understand the decision and convinced me that this
appointement was a good decision. I hoped very dearly Arnnon would post
on this list to address the issue and to convince me he was a good fit
in spite of the whole situation. I waited... waited... waited... but
nothing came.

I can't sit and say nothing.



Learning the whole story about Arnnon was a disappointment to me as it
means the board selection process is not working as it should be (for a
mature organization as WMF ought to be by now). If the screening process
had been done properly, I believe the board would have refrained from
selecting him, or at least would have taken the time to address the
issue before any appointement announcement. This decreased my trust in
the board a bit, but I can live with that. Such mistakes do happen ;)

Secundly, Kat completely nailed it with regards to integrity being one
of our core values.
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-January/080854.html.
I do feel unconfortable with Arnnon being on the board.

Then I was astonished when I discovered that Dariusz, who has been a
board member for over 6 months, was not aware of the existence of the
Conflict of Interest Policy, which include a pledge of commitment and an
obligation to disclose potential conflicts of interest. A policy voted
by the board several years ago and mandatory for all board members. It
is apparently not enforced anymore, even though it is an approved policy
and obviously a good governance practice. This makes me think the board
is not operating properly anymore on this serious matter.

Last, and not least, over two weeks after the issue was raised on the
mailing list, by several trusted members of our community, the current
board of trustees has not addressed the issue.

I hesitate between two interpretations. Either the board is completely
paralyzed and no more able to make any decision as to what they should
do. Or the board has decided not to provide any feedback, which I
consider completely disrespectful to the community and unhealthy
generally. Either way, I consider this lack of responsiveness from the
board an even WORSE consideration than Arnnon being a board member.

I love you guys... Patricio, Alice, Frieda, Dariusz, Denny, and Jimbo
(*). I love you very much. I know each of you. I value every one of you.
You guys rock in most of what you do and I know it is hard. It is a big
commitment, it is a lot of pressure, it is time-consuming. And I thank
every one of you for your gardianship as well as boldness in taking some
tough decisions.

But here... I do not understand what you are doing. Please take my vote
as a respectful record of my perplexity.


Anthere

(*)Citing community-born members only. Appointed members bring great
perspective, but I do not expect them to know it all about Wikimedia
community.



Le 21/01/16 01:04, Fæ a écrit :

> We are now approaching 2 weeks since the open letter to the Chairman
> of the WMF board. There has been no formal response, nor any
> commitment to take action. Consequently a simple open and public vote
> of confidence for Geshuri's appointment has been created.
>
> Link:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Vote_of_confidence:Arnnon_Geshuri
>
> Please vote or add your comment there.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On 7 January 2016 at 10:38, Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Dear Patricio Lorente,
>>
>> I request that the WMF board take immediate action to publish a
>> comprehensive account of why you appointed Geshuri as a trustee,
>> despite his direct involvement and being named as a defendant in the
>> on-going scandal of anticompetitive agreements at Google, or that
>> Geshuri chooses to step down from his new position of trust.
>>
>> This is being separated out as an open letter to the board in a new
>> discussion thread, to avoid getting confused with other issues. In the
>> light of recent challenges to the WMF with regard to a dramatic loss
>> of confidence in their senior management and the politicking behind
>> the loss of James Heilman as a trustee openly advocating for
>> transparency to the actions of the WMF board, Geshuri's background
>> with anticompetitive practices can only damage confidence in the WMF
>> board with regard to their duty to hold WMF senior management to
>> account and acting with the highest possible accountability and public
>> transparency.
>>
>> Links showing Geshuri's public footprint on this issue:
>> 1. http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/2753701/no-poach-scandal-unredacted-steve-jobs-eric-schmidt-paul-otellini
>> 2. http://www.lieffcabraser.com/Antitrust/Apple-Google-Silicon-Valley-No-Cold-Calling.shtml
>> 3. http://www.courthousenews.com/2015/03/23/google-shareholders-miffed-over-wage-fight.htm
>> 4. https://www.quora.com/How-is-Arnnon-Geshuri-current-VP-HR-at-Tesla-and-former-chief-architect-of-staffing-at-Google-good-at-what-he-does
>>
>> Yours sincerely,
>> Fae
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Andrew Green <[hidden email]>
>> Date: 7 January 2016 at 08:58
>> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Announcing new Wikimedia Foundation Trustees
>> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[hidden email]>
>>
>>
>> Interesting to note Arnnon's role in the Silicon Valley anti-poaching
>> affair: http://www.theverge.com/2012/1/27/2753701/no-poach-scandal-unredacted-steve-jobs-eric-schmidt-paul-otellini
>>
>> - Andrew
>> --
>> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
>
>



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Board-l] Fwd: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Dariusz Jemielniak-3
hi Florence,


Then I was astonished when I discovered that Dariusz, who has been a board
> member for over 6 months, was not aware of the existence of the Conflict of
> Interest Policy, which include a pledge of commitment and an obligation to
> disclose potential conflicts of interest. A policy voted by the board
> several years ago and mandatory for all board members. It is apparently not
> enforced anymore, even though it is an approved policy and obviously a good
> governance practice. This makes me think the board is not operating
> properly anymore on this serious matter.
>


just to clarify this issue: I have been signing the COI pledges/disclosures
over the last 4 years, as the FDC member, and later as a Board member.
Apparently I did not make myself clear that I think it is worthwhile to
consider PUBLIC statements (as proposed in the email I was replying to),
and not statements in general (which we do have). It may have left you with
a reading that I was unaware of the COI policy as a whole; I apologize for
my clumsy phrasing.

best,

dariusz
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Matthew Flaschen
In reply to this post by George William Herbert
On 01/20/2016 09:36 PM, George Herbert wrote:
> There was a finding of civil, not criminal, liability in the case.  Against the companies as a whole not individuals.
>
> Generally such never becomes individual liability or criminality.

You're right that we shouldn't expect criminal charges of Geshuri.

Also, we shouldn't expect key new facts will emerge (the main civil
cases have completed).  The jury is not out.

However, what Geshuri did ethically is just as important, if not more.
The board had available information they needed to assess that, but not
all of them found or used it.

Geshuri's choice not to reveal this information is also an ethical problem.

Matt Flaschen


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Board-l] Fwd: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

SarahSV
In reply to this post by Dariusz Jemielniak-3
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Dariusz Jemielniak <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
> just to clarify this issue: I have been signing the COI pledges/disclosures
> over the last 4 years, as the FDC member, and later as a Board member.
> Apparently I did not make myself clear that I think it is worthwhile to
> consider PUBLIC statements (as proposed in the email I was replying to),
> and not statements in general (which we do have). It may have left you with
> a reading that I was unaware of the COI policy as a whole; I apologize for
> my clumsy phrasing.
>
> best,
>
> dariusz
>
​Hi Dariusz,

You wrote to this list on 12 January that you were investigating with the
Board Governance Committee what happened regarding the appointments process
in this case – whether everyone was fully informed, and so on.

Can you let us know what you've learned or when you'll publish your
findings? I think the community is keen to know what happened.

Sarah
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Matthew Flaschen
In reply to this post by Fæ
On 01/13/2016 12:00 PM, Fæ wrote:
> Please make your timetable public, so that the community is reassured
> that formal communications such as this letter to the board are not a
> waste of time, and that the WMF chair is not only aware of community
> concerns but is taking these questions seriously.

Thank you.

I don't know if the board is able to make the timetable public, but I
also think it's important that we know whether the board is still
working on this issue, or whether they consider it done.

To that effect, I appreciated your update yesterday
(https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment/Vote_of_no_confidence_on_Arnnon_Geshuri/sig&diff=prev&oldid=15265066),
where you relayed that (per Patricio) the board is still discussing the
issue.

I am glad to know the Board is working on this.  It needs to be handled
properly, but we also need to see movement.

Thanks,

Matt Flaschen

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Board-l] Fwd: WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Florence Devouard-6
In reply to this post by Dariusz Jemielniak-3
Le 21/01/16 20:05, Dariusz Jemielniak a écrit :

> hi Florence,
>
>
> Then I was astonished when I discovered that Dariusz, who has been a board
>> member for over 6 months, was not aware of the existence of the Conflict of
>> Interest Policy, which include a pledge of commitment and an obligation to
>> disclose potential conflicts of interest. A policy voted by the board
>> several years ago and mandatory for all board members. It is apparently not
>> enforced anymore, even though it is an approved policy and obviously a good
>> governance practice. This makes me think the board is not operating
>> properly anymore on this serious matter.
>>
>
>
> just to clarify this issue: I have been signing the COI pledges/disclosures
> over the last 4 years, as the FDC member, and later as a Board member.
> Apparently I did not make myself clear that I think it is worthwhile to
> consider PUBLIC statements (as proposed in the email I was replying to),
> and not statements in general (which we do have). It may have left you with
> a reading that I was unaware of the COI policy as a whole; I apologize for
> my clumsy phrasing.
>
> best,
>
> dariusz

Thank you for that clarification Dariusz. I am happy to read that !

Misinterpretation on my part for what you wrote here :
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-January/080945.html
After reading it again, it actually referred to public statements rather
than private ones. And since you did not comment on the list when I
raised the issue, my misinterpretation was not corrected. My apologies.

Flo




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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Todd Allen
In reply to this post by Matthew Flaschen
We are not "seeing movement" by a vague statement of "we're working on it".

In the case of James Heilman, they said essentially the same thing. What
resulted was a vague statement that used a lot of words to say nothing at
all. There needs to be full disclosure and specifics, not a lot of waffle.

We need a commitment to give a fully detailed statement by a specific time,
or else this isn't "movement", just delaying and obfuscating like last time.

Todd

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 10:39 PM, Matthew Flaschen <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 01/13/2016 12:00 PM, Fæ wrote:
>
>> Please make your timetable public, so that the community is reassured
>> that formal communications such as this letter to the board are not a
>> waste of time, and that the WMF chair is not only aware of community
>> concerns but is taking these questions seriously.
>>
>
> Thank you.
>
> I don't know if the board is able to make the timetable public, but I also
> think it's important that we know whether the board is still working on
> this issue, or whether they consider it done.
>
> To that effect, I appreciated your update yesterday (
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Requests_for_comment/Vote_of_no_confidence_on_Arnnon_Geshuri/sig&diff=prev&oldid=15265066),
> where you relayed that (per Patricio) the board is still discussing the
> issue.
>
> I am glad to know the Board is working on this.  It needs to be handled
> properly, but we also need to see movement.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt Flaschen
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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[Wikimedia-l] COI - was Re: [Board-l] Fwd: WMF etc.

Florence Devouard-6
In reply to this post by Dariusz Jemielniak-3
Le 21/01/16 20:05, Dariusz Jemielniak a écrit :

> hi Florence,
>
>
> Then I was astonished when I discovered that Dariusz, who has been a board
>> member for over 6 months, was not aware of the existence of the Conflict of
>> Interest Policy, which include a pledge of commitment and an obligation to
>> disclose potential conflicts of interest. A policy voted by the board
>> several years ago and mandatory for all board members. It is apparently not
>> enforced anymore, even though it is an approved policy and obviously a good
>> governance practice. This makes me think the board is not operating
>> properly anymore on this serious matter.
>>
>
>
> just to clarify this issue: I have been signing the COI pledges/disclosures
> over the last 4 years, as the FDC member, and later as a Board member.
> Apparently I did not make myself clear that I think it is worthwhile to
> consider PUBLIC statements (as proposed in the email I was replying to),
> and not statements in general (which we do have). It may have left you with
> a reading that I was unaware of the COI policy as a whole; I apologize for
> my clumsy phrasing.
>
> best,
>
> dariusz

My apologies Dariusz; This point was a misunderstanding on my part after
reading this msg from you :
https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2016-January/080945.html

I am really happy to read your clarification and see that this point is
in fact not an issue. Good :)

I actually stayed in confusion because I commented it, but you never
gave any further feedback.
But some people warned me my emails got stuck in spambox...
I changed my email address for the lists this morning... sent a
message... and it got stuck in moderation !
Hopefully this one will work out...


Florence

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
Florence Devouard wrote:

>I hesitate between two interpretations. Either the board is completely
>paralyzed and no more able to make any decision as to what they should
>do. Or the board has decided not to provide any feedback, which I
>consider completely disrespectful to the community and unhealthy
>generally. Either way, I consider this lack of responsiveness from the
>board an even WORSE consideration than Arnnon being a board member.
>
>I love you guys... Patricio, Alice, Frieda, Dariusz, Denny, and Jimbo
>(*). I love you very much. I know each of you. I value every one of you.
>You guys rock in most of what you do and I know it is hard. It is a big
>commitment, it is a lot of pressure, it is time-consuming. And I thank
>every one of you for your gardianship as well as boldness in taking some
>tough decisions.
>
>But here... I do not understand what you are doing. Please take my vote
>as a respectful record of my perplexity.
>
>(*)Citing community-born members only. Appointed members bring great
>perspective, but I do not expect them to know it all about Wikimedia
>community.

Very well put. Thank you for writing this e-mail.

MZMcBride



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] WMF trustee Arnnon Geshuri and part in anticompetitive agreements in Google

Marc-Andre
In reply to this post by Florence Devouard-3
On 2016-01-21 7:08 AM, Florence Devouard wrote:
> Either the board is completely paralyzed and no more able to make any
> decision as to what they should do. Or the board has decided not to
> provide any feedback, which I consider completely disrespectful to the
> community and unhealthy generally.

It would seem to me, Florence, that the board has fallen into a very
unhealthy pattern: when it becomes evident they have made a mistake,
rather than own up to it and correct it they dig trenches and try to
pretend nothing is wrong - letting things degenerate.  Ego?  Fear of
appearing fallible?  Regardless of /why/, the effect is that they stick
by a decision (I really hope) they know was bad.

And now they're doing it again with Arnnon, it seems.

-- Marc


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