[Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...

WereSpielChequers-2
In the UK lists of voters marked with who did and did not vote are called "marked registers". They are available to political parties and can be used to check that no-one has voted on behalf of people who don't vote for religious or other reasons.

In a system where there are no ID checks on voters I don't see how else you can prevent impersonation of voters - obviously that isn't needed in our elections because you can only vote when logged in.



>>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2015 23:42:16 +0100
> From: Michael Peel <[hidden email]>
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the
>    votes...
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
>
>> By the way, my understanding is that the practice of generating a public
>> list of voters who cast ballots, while keeping the nature of their votes
>> private, is relatively common in election processes in general. In the
>> United States, political parties use this information for their "get out
>> the vote" campaigns so that they know which of their likely supporters have
>> yet to vote.
>
> In UK political elections I think that would be illegal...{{citation needed}}
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
>
>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...

Tomasz Ganicz
In reply to this post by Denny Vrandečić-2
Actully is probably much higher in terms of currently acrive editors. For
example - in Polish WIkipedia there are currently around 250 - 100+ editors
- and there was 171 votes (if I calculated it properly) - and in Ukrainian
Wikipedia  - if you calculate it in similar way the effective tournover is
close to 90% !!! (170 100+ editors and 163 votes).





2015-06-01 4:02 GMT+02:00 Denny Vrandečić <[hidden email]>:

> 25% turnout is amazing!! Thank you, and congratulations to WM UA,
> particularly given the political situation at home.
>
> I also collected a few thoughts about the elections here:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Denny/Thoughts_Board_Election_2015
>
> Thanks to the Election Committee and everyone else out there getting the
> word out, fellow voters, and fellow candidates!
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 5:34 PM James Alexander <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, May 31, 2015 at 3:20 PM, James Alexander <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Ukraine has done great this year! Your work clearly paid off, currently
> > > 11.74% of the eligible users on ukWiki have voted (making it one of the
> > > highest % wikis, and the highest if you only count medium/large wikis
> > some
> > > of the smaller ones get an advantage when % is factored in). It also
> > > accounts for 2.58% of the total votes compared to less then 1% (.99%)
> of
> > > the whole electorate.
> > >
> > >
> > Mea Culpa: For the record I was double counting many of the eligible
> voters
> > here (we had an old voter list that was also being counted). The correct
> > numbers for ukWiki would be just over 25% of eligible voters voting and
> > 2.61% of the total votes (still .99% of the electorate).
> >
> > We will certainly be releasing more detailed results for projects with
> > results and in the post mortem.
> >
> > James Alexander
> > Community Advocacy
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > (415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/GuidelinesWikimedia-l@...
> >
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...

Milos Rancic-2
On Jun 4, 2015 15:20, "Tomasz Ganicz" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> ... and in Ukrainian
> Wikipedia  - if you calculate it in similar way the effective tournover is
> close to 90% !!! (170 100+ editors and 163 votes).

This is very good point! It would be good if we'd have election turnout
numbers split into the next groups:

1) Turnout of very active editors (let's say, 1200+ edits during the year
before elections, as it would be hard to measure based on monthly numbers).

2) Active editors (60+ edits during the previous year).

3) Everybody eligible.

I think we'll be quite good if the second group has more than 50% of
turnout (assuming that the first one would be better, for sure).

In relation to the Polish and Ukrainian numbers, I am sure that it's pretty
close to the point (those who voted are likely very active editors), but
I'd like to see the exact numbers.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...

phoebe ayers-3
In reply to this post by Yaroslav M. Blanter
On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Yaroslav M. Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2015-06-03 17:42, Raymond Leonard wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> At the link, you can find
>> List votes: Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees Elections 2015
>> https://vote.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:SecurePoll/list/512
>>
>> Yours,
>> Peaceray
>> --
>
>
> Thank you. I am indeed listed as voting from Meta, where I barely qualify,
> and not from for example en.wp or ru.wv where I have tons of edits.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>

Small point -- because this is the first election we've done using SUL
(hooray!!) the wiki listed is whatever someone's "home" wiki is
according to SUL (I think) and not, as in past years, the wiki where
you actually clicked the vote link from.

The point that many editors are active on many wikis, and thus
potentially eligible on many wikis, is certainly true. I would guess
that (again because of SUL) each wiki's voter list represents those
eligible voters who have that wiki as their home wiki, so there's not
duplication. But the election committee can verify that.

best,
Phoebe

p.s. before I forget: a big thank-you to the elections committee for
making this election smooth and inclusive, and to everyone who did
get-out-the-vote efforts. It's really heartening to see a rise in
participation, and like others I was really impressed by the candidate
slate, too!


--
* I use this address for lists; send personal messages to phoebe.ayers
<at> gmail.com *

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...

James Alexander-4
On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 11:27 AM, phoebe ayers <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Small point -- because this is the first election we've done using SUL
> (hooray!!) the wiki listed is whatever someone's "home" wiki is
> according to SUL (I think) and not, as in past years, the wiki where
> you actually clicked the vote link from.
>
>
Aye, this is right, the wiki listed on SecurePoll is what CentralAuth says
is your 'home' wiki. Actually, in most cases, this has been the case for a
while. If you look at a voter list for the English Wikipedia Arbcom
Elections
<https://vote.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?limit=500&title=Special%3ASecurePoll%2Flist%2F392>
for example you'll see that there are random examples of people with
"Domain" of another wiki because that's their home wiki even though the
only place you could vote from was enWiki. Of course in the past not
everyone was global and in those cases it was the Domain the account was
coming from.


> The point that many editors are active on many wikis, and thus
> potentially eligible on many wikis, is certainly true. I would guess
> that (again because of SUL) each wiki's voter list represents those
> eligible voters who have that wiki as their home wiki, so there's not
> duplication. But the election committee can verify that.
>
> best,
> Phoebe


Thanks Phoebe, it's actually important to note that in this election (and
likely future global elections, perhaps even most future elections in
general, the voter list was actually global (on the centralAuth database
rather then local wiki databases). Therefore there was no such thing as
being 'eligible on multiple wikis' or duplication (other then someone
having multiple accounts) like there has been in the past. In the results
we'll have X people eligible on wiki Y is X people who have Y wiki labeled
as their home wiki and those X people will not be counted in any other
wiki. In the past this was a big problem, trying to find out exactly how
many unique users were eligible to vote in the 2013 or 2011 elections for
example has been incredibly difficult since some of them (<cough> stewards
</cough> ) could be eligible on not only a couple wikis but sometimes 100s
of wikis and would be listed independently on each one.

James Alexander
Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...

Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 2015-06-04 20:48, James Alexander wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 4, 2015 at 11:27 AM, phoebe ayers <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Small point -- because this is the first election we've done using SUL
>> (hooray!!) the wiki listed is whatever someone's "home" wiki is
>> according to SUL (I think) and not, as in past years, the wiki where
>> you actually clicked the vote link from.
>>
>>
> Aye, this is right, the wiki listed on SecurePoll is what CentralAuth
> says
> is your 'home' wiki. Actually, in most cases, this has been the case
> for a
> while. If you look at a voter list for the English Wikipedia Arbcom
> Elections
> <https://vote.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?limit=500&title=Special%3ASecurePoll%2Flist%2F392>
> for example you'll see that there are random examples of people with
> "Domain" of another wiki because that's their home wiki even though the
> only place you could vote from was enWiki. Of course in the past not
> everyone was global and in those cases it was the Domain the account
> was
> coming from.
>
>
>> The point that many editors are active on many wikis, and thus
>> potentially eligible on many wikis, is certainly true. I would guess
>> that (again because of SUL) each wiki's voter list represents those
>> eligible voters who have that wiki as their home wiki, so there's not
>> duplication. But the election committee can verify that.
>>
>> best,
>> Phoebe
>

Thanks, now I got it. My current account was indeed registered on Meta,
though currently I am barely active there.

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] While Election committee counts the votes...

Mike Peel
In reply to this post by WereSpielChequers-2

> On 4 Jun 2015, at 11:39, WereSpielChequers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In the UK lists of voters marked with who did and did not vote are called "marked registers". They are available to political parties and can be used to check that no-one has voted on behalf of people who don't vote for religious or other reasons.
>
> In a system where there are no ID checks on voters I don't see how else you can prevent impersonation of voters - obviously that isn't needed in our elections because you can only vote when logged in.

Thanks WSC, that's interesting, and rather unexpected to hear! Thanks for the info, and apologies, to Risker for debating it! (and to everyone else for the somewhat off-topic discussion...) I'll have to go improve the relevant Wikipedia articles now...

Thanks,
Mike
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