[Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

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[Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Paulo Santos Perneta
Hello,

A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially informed,
by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown sanction,
with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt with by
AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred more
than one year ago. I was never informed of this.

This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling
behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations made
by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated.
AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse of a
need for secrecy.

How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia
Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked and
very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its middle,
overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both
affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?

More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can appeal
to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above all
suspicion?

Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia Foundation
over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with
suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman
Commission?

Looking forward for any help and insight on this,

Paulo - DarwIn
Wikimedia Portugal
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Benjamin Ikuta



I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more transparency and accountability would be good.



On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially informed,
> by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown sanction,
> with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
> fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt with by
> AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred more
> than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
>
> This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling
> behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations made
> by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated.
> AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse of a
> need for secrecy.
>
> How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia
> Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked and
> very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its middle,
> overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both
> affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
>
> More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can appeal
> to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above all
> suspicion?
>
> Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia Foundation
> over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with
> suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman
> Commission?
>
> Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
>
> Paulo - DarwIn
> Wikimedia Portugal
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Isaac Olatunde
Hi Paulo,

You said you got your information from a WMF source. Right? Is there no
possibility for you to ask the same WMF source who to direct this question
to? Have you tried to ask AffCom, WMF SuSa or the community engagement team?

In any case, I wish you all the best.

Isaac





On Mon, May 6, 2019, 10:20 AM Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email] wrote:

>
>
>
> I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more
> transparency and accountability would be good.
>
>
>
> On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
> informed,
> > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown sanction,
> > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
> > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt with
> by
> > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
> more
> > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> >
> > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling
> > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
> made
> > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated.
> > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse of a
> > need for secrecy.
> >
> > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia
> > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
> and
> > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
> middle,
> > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both
> > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> >
> > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
> appeal
> > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above all
> > suspicion?
> >
> > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia Foundation
> > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with
> > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman
> > Commission?
> >
> > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> >
> > Paulo - DarwIn
> > Wikimedia Portugal
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Paulo Santos Perneta
In reply to this post by Benjamin Ikuta
Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart from
having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was under
some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I was
not part of and episotes I do not took part.

This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the
Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really would
like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I
actually want to know who planted the false information about me there
which led to this situation.

I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and internal
inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.

Best,
Paulo





Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019
à(s) 10:20:

>
>
>
> I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more
> transparency and accountability would be good.
>
>
>
> On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
> informed,
> > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown sanction,
> > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
> > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt with
> by
> > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
> more
> > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> >
> > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling
> > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
> made
> > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated.
> > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse of a
> > need for secrecy.
> >
> > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia
> > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
> and
> > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
> middle,
> > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both
> > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> >
> > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
> appeal
> > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above all
> > suspicion?
> >
> > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia Foundation
> > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with
> > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman
> > Commission?
> >
> > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> >
> > Paulo - DarwIn
> > Wikimedia Portugal
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Kiril Simeonovski
Hi Paulo,

This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.

Best,
Kiril

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart from
> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was under
> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I was
> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
>
> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the
> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really would
> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I
> actually want to know who planted the false information about me there
> which led to this situation.
>
> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and internal
> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
>
>
>
>
> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda,
> 6/05/2019
> à(s) 10:20:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more
> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
> > informed,
> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
> sanction,
> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt
> with
> > by
> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
> > more
> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > >
> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling
> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
> > made
> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated.
> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse
> of a
> > > need for secrecy.
> > >
> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia
> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
> > and
> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
> > middle,
> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both
> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > >
> > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
> > appeal
> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above
> all
> > > suspicion?
> > >
> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
> Foundation
> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with
> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman
> > > Commission?
> > >
> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > >
> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Kiril Simeonovski
P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such
like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of Trustees
but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more
details.

Best,
Kiril

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Paulo,
>
> This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
>
> Best,
> Kiril
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart
>> from
>> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was under
>> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I was
>> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
>>
>> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the
>> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really would
>> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I
>> actually want to know who planted the false information about me there
>> which led to this situation.
>>
>> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and internal
>> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
>>
>> Best,
>> Paulo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda,
>> 6/05/2019
>> à(s) 10:20:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more
>> > transparency and accountability would be good.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
>> [hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hello,
>> > >
>> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
>> > informed,
>> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
>> sanction,
>> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
>> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt
>> with
>> > by
>> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
>> > more
>> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
>> > >
>> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling
>> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
>> > made
>> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated.
>> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse
>> of a
>> > > need for secrecy.
>> > >
>> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia
>> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
>> > and
>> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
>> > middle,
>> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both
>> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
>> > >
>> > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
>> > appeal
>> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
>> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above
>> all
>> > > suspicion?
>> > >
>> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
>> Foundation
>> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do
>> with
>> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman
>> > > Commission?
>> > >
>> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
>> > >
>> > > Paulo - DarwIn
>> > > Wikimedia Portugal
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
>> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > New messages to: [hidden email]
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Cornelius Kibelka
Hi all,

I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep the
discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles &
Responsibility scoping document talk page:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Role_of_the_AffCom

Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be
great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.

Best regards
Cornelius


On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such
> like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of Trustees
> but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more
> details.
>
> Best,
> Kiril
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Paulo,
> >
> > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
> >
> > Best,
> > Kiril
> >
> > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart
> >> from
> >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was
> under
> >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I
> was
> >> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
> >>
> >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the
> >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really
> would
> >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I
> >> actually want to know who planted the false information about me there
> >> which led to this situation.
> >>
> >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
> internal
> >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
> >>
> >> Best,
> >> Paulo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda,
> >> 6/05/2019
> >> à(s) 10:20:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more
> >> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> >> [hidden email]>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hello,
> >> > >
> >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
> >> > informed,
> >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
> >> sanction,
> >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
> >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt
> >> with
> >> > by
> >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
> occurred
> >> > more
> >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> >> > >
> >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling
> >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
> accusations
> >> > made
> >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
> substantiated.
> >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse
> >> of a
> >> > > need for secrecy.
> >> > >
> >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
> Wikimedia
> >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
> unchecked
> >> > and
> >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
> >> > middle,
> >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us
> (both
> >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> >> > >
> >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
> >> > appeal
> >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above
> >> all
> >> > > suspicion?
> >> > >
> >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
> >> Foundation
> >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do
> >> with
> >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
> Ombudsman
> >> > > Commission?
> >> > >
> >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> >> > >
> >> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> >> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >> ,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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--
Cornelius Kibelka
Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED

Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
http://wikimedia.de

Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
http://spenden.wikimedia.de/

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Kiril Simeonovski
Hi Cornelius,

Thank you for the information.

Best,
Kiril

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:14 PM Cornelius Kibelka <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep the
> discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles &
> Responsibility scoping document talk page:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Role_of_the_AffCom
>
> Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be
> great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
>
> Best regards
> Cornelius
>
>
> On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such
> > like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
> Trustees
> > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more
> > details.
> >
> > Best,
> > Kiril
> >
> > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Paulo,
> > >
> > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Kiril
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart
> > >> from
> > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was
> > under
> > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I
> > was
> > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
> > >>
> > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the
> > >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really
> > would
> > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I
> > >> actually want to know who planted the false information about me there
> > >> which led to this situation.
> > >>
> > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
> > internal
> > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Paulo
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda,
> > >> 6/05/2019
> > >> à(s) 10:20:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more
> > >> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > >> [hidden email]>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hello,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
> > >> > informed,
> > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
> > >> sanction,
> > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
> > >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates,
> dealt
> > >> with
> > >> > by
> > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
> > occurred
> > >> > more
> > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
> appalling
> > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
> > accusations
> > >> > made
> > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
> > substantiated.
> > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the
> excuse
> > >> of a
> > >> > > need for secrecy.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
> > Wikimedia
> > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
> > unchecked
> > >> > and
> > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
> > >> > middle,
> > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us
> > (both
> > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one
> can
> > >> > appeal
> > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> > >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be
> above
> > >> all
> > >> > > suspicion?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
> > >> Foundation
> > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do
> > >> with
> > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
> > Ombudsman
> > >> > > Commission?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > >> ,
> > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Cornelius Kibelka
> Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
> Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Paulo Santos Perneta
In reply to this post by Cornelius Kibelka
Hi Cornelius,

Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom, I
really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so that
I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a fraudulent
and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles &
Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.

Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if the BoT
can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the current
light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely powerful
entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and issuing
decrees without following even the most basic principles of due process.
And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It affects
directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not
connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the
affiliates involved in that case.

And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made last year
by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer finally
looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation and
request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole situation
even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?

It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind everything with
the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of
process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.

I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why it
was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction aganitt me
come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).

To who should I complaint about this?

Paulo

Cornelius Kibelka <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda,
6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:

> Hi all,
>
> I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep the
> discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles &
> Responsibility scoping document talk page:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Role_of_the_AffCom
>
> Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be
> great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
>
> Best regards
> Cornelius
>
>
> On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski <
> [hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such
> > like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
> Trustees
> > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more
> > details.
> >
> > Best,
> > Kiril
> >
> > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > [hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Paulo,
> > >
> > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Kiril
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well, apart
> > >> from
> > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was
> > under
> > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates I
> > was
> > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
> > >>
> > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the
> > >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really
> > would
> > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I
> > >> actually want to know who planted the false information about me there
> > >> which led to this situation.
> > >>
> > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
> > internal
> > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Paulo
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda,
> > >> 6/05/2019
> > >> à(s) 10:20:
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more
> > >> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > >> [hidden email]>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Hello,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
> > >> > informed,
> > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
> > >> sanction,
> > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
> > >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates,
> dealt
> > >> with
> > >> > by
> > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
> > occurred
> > >> > more
> > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
> appalling
> > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
> > accusations
> > >> > made
> > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
> > substantiated.
> > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the
> excuse
> > >> of a
> > >> > > need for secrecy.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
> > Wikimedia
> > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
> > unchecked
> > >> > and
> > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
> > >> > middle,
> > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us
> > (both
> > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one
> can
> > >> > appeal
> > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> > >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be
> above
> > >> all
> > >> > > suspicion?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
> > >> Foundation
> > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do
> > >> with
> > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
> > Ombudsman
> > >> > > Commission?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > >> ,
> > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Cornelius Kibelka
> Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
> Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> http://wikimedia.de
>
> Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
>
> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter
> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Tomasz Ganicz
It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od Trustees, as
Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the top
body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.

pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
napisał(a):

> Hi Cornelius,
>
> Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom, I
> really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so that
> I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a fraudulent
> and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles &
> Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
>
> Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if the BoT
> can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the current
> light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely powerful
> entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and issuing
> decrees without following even the most basic principles of due process.
> And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It affects
> directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not
> connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the
> affiliates involved in that case.
>
> And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made last year
> by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer finally
> looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation and
> request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole situation
> even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
>
> It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind everything with
> the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of
> process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.
>
> I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why it
> was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction aganitt me
> come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
>
> To who should I complaint about this?
>
> Paulo
>
> Cornelius Kibelka <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> segunda,
> 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep
> the
> > discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles &
> > Responsibility scoping document talk page:
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Role_of_the_AffCom
> >
> > Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be
> > great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Cornelius
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski <
> > [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement such
> > > like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
> > Trustees
> > > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more
> > > details.
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Kiril
> > >
> > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Paulo,
> > > >
> > > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Kiril
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well,
> apart
> > > >> from
> > > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I was
> > > under
> > > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to affiliates
> I
> > > was
> > > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
> > > >>
> > > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the
> > > >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I really
> > > would
> > > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it reverted, I
> > > >> actually want to know who planted the false information about me
> there
> > > >> which led to this situation.
> > > >>
> > > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
> > > internal
> > > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
> > > >>
> > > >> Best,
> > > >> Paulo
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda,
> > > >> 6/05/2019
> > > >> à(s) 10:20:
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that
> more
> > > >> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > >> > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > Hello,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
> officially
> > > >> > informed,
> > > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
> > > >> sanction,
> > > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless
> and
> > > >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates,
> > dealt
> > > >> with
> > > >> > by
> > > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
> > > occurred
> > > >> > more
> > > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
> > appalling
> > > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
> > > accusations
> > > >> > made
> > > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
> > > substantiated.
> > > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the
> > excuse
> > > >> of a
> > > >> > > need for secrecy.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
> > > Wikimedia
> > > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
> > > unchecked
> > > >> > and
> > > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in
> its
> > > >> > middle,
> > > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us
> > > (both
> > > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one
> > can
> > > >> > appeal
> > > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> > > >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be
> > above
> > > >> all
> > > >> > > suspicion?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
> > > >> Foundation
> > > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we
> do
> > > >> with
> > > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
> > > Ombudsman
> > > >> > > Commission?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >> > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > >> ,
> > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >> > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Cornelius Kibelka
> > Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
> > Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > http://wikimedia.de
> >
> > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> > Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
> >
> > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> unter
> > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Paulo Santos Perneta
Hello Tomasz,

Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how can
one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/

I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can get
back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for investigation.

Regards,
Paulo

Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s)
15:57:

> It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od Trustees, as
> Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the top
> body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
>
> pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
> napisał(a):
>
> > Hi Cornelius,
> >
> > Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom, I
> > really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so
> that
> > I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
> fraudulent
> > and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles &
> > Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
> >
> > Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if the
> BoT
> > can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the current
> > light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely powerful
> > entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and issuing
> > decrees without following even the most basic principles of due process.
> > And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It affects
> > directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not
> > connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the
> > affiliates involved in that case.
> >
> > And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made last
> year
> > by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer
> finally
> > looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation and
> > request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole situation
> > even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
> >
> > It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind everything
> with
> > the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of
> > process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.
> >
> > I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why it
> > was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction aganitt
> me
> > come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
> >
> > To who should I complaint about this?
> >
> > Paulo
> >
> > Cornelius Kibelka <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> > segunda,
> > 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you keep
> > the
> > > discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles &
> > > Responsibility scoping document talk page:
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Role_of_the_AffCom
> > >
> > > Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would be
> > > great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > Cornelius
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement
> such
> > > > like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
> > > Trustees
> > > > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide more
> > > > details.
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Kiril
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Paulo,
> > > > >
> > > > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Kiril
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well,
> > apart
> > > > >> from
> > > > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I
> was
> > > > under
> > > > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
> affiliates
> > I
> > > > was
> > > > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from the
> > > > >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I
> really
> > > > would
> > > > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
> reverted, I
> > > > >> actually want to know who planted the false information about me
> > there
> > > > >> which led to this situation.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand and
> > > > internal
> > > > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Best,
> > > > >> Paulo
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda,
> > > > >> 6/05/2019
> > > > >> à(s) 10:20:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that
> > more
> > > > >> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > Hello,
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
> > officially
> > > > >> > informed,
> > > > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
> > > > >> sanction,
> > > > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless
> > and
> > > > >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates,
> > > dealt
> > > > >> with
> > > > >> > by
> > > > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
> > > > occurred
> > > > >> > more
> > > > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
> > > appalling
> > > > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
> > > > accusations
> > > > >> > made
> > > > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
> > > > substantiated.
> > > > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the
> > > excuse
> > > > >> of a
> > > > >> > > need for secrecy.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
> > > > Wikimedia
> > > > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
> > > > unchecked
> > > > >> > and
> > > > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in
> > its
> > > > >> > middle,
> > > > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of
> us
> > > > (both
> > > > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where
> one
> > > can
> > > > >> > appeal
> > > > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> > > > >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be
> > > above
> > > > >> all
> > > > >> > > suspicion?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
> > > > >> Foundation
> > > > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way
> we
> > do
> > > > >> with
> > > > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
> > > > Ombudsman
> > > > >> > > Commission?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > >> ,
> > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ,
> > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cornelius Kibelka
> > > Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
> > > Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> > > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > > http://wikimedia.de
> > >
> > > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge allen
> > > Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> > > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V.
> > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > unter
> > > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für
> > > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Tomasz Ganicz
As far as I know there is no single E-mail address you can contact Board,
but you can try to catch directly any members of the Board who are still
brave enough to provide their personal E-mail... This is not that
straightforward as you may expect, but first go here:

https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/

than click on any face you may find especially friendly, and then in some
cases (not in all) by clicking links in their description, with some good
luck  you may land on the page, where there is some contact information :-)

Or - much simpler: forget rather useless official WMF website, which is
tailored rather to impress than to provide any information,  and go to meta:

https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees

where you can find link to meta-userpages of them and then you can contact
them as usually on wiki.

Good luck,


pon., 6 maj 2019 o 17:09 Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
napisał(a):

> Hello Tomasz,
>
> Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how can
> one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here:
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/
>
> I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can get
> back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for investigation.
>
> Regards,
> Paulo
>
> Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019
> à(s)
> 15:57:
>
> > It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od Trustees,
> as
> > Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the top
> > body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
> >
> > pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
> > napisał(a):
> >
> > > Hi Cornelius,
> > >
> > > Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom, I
> > > really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so
> > that
> > > I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
> > fraudulent
> > > and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles &
> > > Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
> > >
> > > Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if the
> > BoT
> > > can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the
> current
> > > light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely
> powerful
> > > entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and
> issuing
> > > decrees without following even the most basic principles of due
> process.
> > > And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It
> affects
> > > directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not
> > > connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the
> > > affiliates involved in that case.
> > >
> > > And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made last
> > year
> > > by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer
> > finally
> > > looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation and
> > > request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole
> situation
> > > even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
> > >
> > > It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind everything
> > with
> > > the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of
> > > process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.
> > >
> > > I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why
> it
> > > was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction aganitt
> > me
> > > come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
> > >
> > > To who should I complaint about this?
> > >
> > > Paulo
> > >
> > > Cornelius Kibelka <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> > > segunda,
> > > 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you
> keep
> > > the
> > > > discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles &
> > > > Responsibility scoping document talk page:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Role_of_the_AffCom
> > > >
> > > > Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would
> be
> > > > great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > > Cornelius
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the movement
> > such
> > > > > like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board of
> > > > Trustees
> > > > > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide
> more
> > > > > details.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Kiril
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Paulo,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > Kiril
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as well,
> > > apart
> > > > > >> from
> > > > > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it I
> > was
> > > > > under
> > > > > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
> > affiliates
> > > I
> > > > > was
> > > > > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from
> the
> > > > > >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I
> > really
> > > > > would
> > > > > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
> > reverted, I
> > > > > >> actually want to know who planted the false information about me
> > > there
> > > > > >> which led to this situation.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand
> and
> > > > > internal
> > > > > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > >> Paulo
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> segunda,
> > > > > >> 6/05/2019
> > > > > >> à(s) 10:20:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree
> that
> > > more
> > > > > >> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > > Hello,
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
> > > officially
> > > > > >> > informed,
> > > > > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now
> unknown
> > > > > >> sanction,
> > > > > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as
> baseless
> > > and
> > > > > >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two
> affiliates,
> > > > dealt
> > > > > >> with
> > > > > >> > by
> > > > > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of,
> > > > > occurred
> > > > > >> > more
> > > > > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
> > > > appalling
> > > > > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
> > > > > accusations
> > > > > >> > made
> > > > > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
> > > > > substantiated.
> > > > > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with
> the
> > > > excuse
> > > > > >> of a
> > > > > >> > > need for secrecy.
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the
> > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently
> > > > > unchecked
> > > > > >> > and
> > > > > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this
> in
> > > its
> > > > > >> > middle,
> > > > > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all
> of
> > us
> > > > > (both
> > > > > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where
> > one
> > > > can
> > > > > >> > appeal
> > > > > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless,
> secretive,
> > > > > >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to
> be
> > > > above
> > > > > >> all
> > > > > >> > > suspicion?
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the
> Wikimedia
> > > > > >> Foundation
> > > > > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way
> > we
> > > do
> > > > > >> with
> > > > > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the
> > > > > Ombudsman
> > > > > >> > > Commission?
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > > > > >> > >
> > > > > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > > > > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > >> > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > >> ,
> > > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >> >
> > > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > >> > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > ,
> > > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > >> Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ,
> > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cornelius Kibelka
> > > > Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
> > > > Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> > > > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > > > http://wikimedia.de
> > > >
> > > > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
> allen
> > > > Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> > > > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.
> V.
> > > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > > unter
> > > > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
> für
> > > > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Paulo Santos Perneta
Hi Tomasz,

Thank you very much for the information. It is quite unexpected that the
Board of Trustees can't be officially reached in any way, and we have to
try to find our way individually to one and each of the trustees, until one
of them accepts the hot potato in their hands (or not).

I wonder how all this got to this point.

Regards,
Paulo

Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019 à(s)
17:01:

> As far as I know there is no single E-mail address you can contact Board,
> but you can try to catch directly any members of the Board who are still
> brave enough to provide their personal E-mail... This is not that
> straightforward as you may expect, but first go here:
>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
>
> than click on any face you may find especially friendly, and then in some
> cases (not in all) by clicking links in their description, with some good
> luck  you may land on the page, where there is some contact information :-)
>
> Or - much simpler: forget rather useless official WMF website, which is
> tailored rather to impress than to provide any information,  and go to
> meta:
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees
>
> where you can find link to meta-userpages of them and then you can contact
> them as usually on wiki.
>
> Good luck,
>
>
> pon., 6 maj 2019 o 17:09 Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
> napisał(a):
>
> > Hello Tomasz,
> >
> > Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how can
> > one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here:
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/
> >
> > I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can get
> > back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for
> investigation.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Paulo
> >
> > Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019
> > à(s)
> > 15:57:
> >
> > > It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od
> Trustees,
> > as
> > > Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the top
> > > body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
> > >
> > > pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]
> >
> > > napisał(a):
> > >
> > > > Hi Cornelius,
> > > >
> > > > Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of AffCom,
> I
> > > > really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom, so
> > > that
> > > > I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
> > > fraudulent
> > > > and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles &
> > > > Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
> > > >
> > > > Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if
> the
> > > BoT
> > > > can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the
> > current
> > > > light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely
> > powerful
> > > > entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and
> > issuing
> > > > decrees without following even the most basic principles of due
> > process.
> > > > And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It
> > affects
> > > > directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not
> > > > connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of the
> > > > affiliates involved in that case.
> > > >
> > > > And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made
> last
> > > year
> > > > by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer
> > > finally
> > > > looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation
> and
> > > > request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole
> > situation
> > > > even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
> > > >
> > > > It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind
> everything
> > > with
> > > > the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out of
> > > > process, and against the most elementary principles of Human Rights.
> > > >
> > > > I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and why
> > it
> > > > was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction
> aganitt
> > > me
> > > > come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
> > > >
> > > > To who should I complaint about this?
> > > >
> > > > Paulo
> > > >
> > > > Cornelius Kibelka <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> > > > segunda,
> > > > 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest you
> > keep
> > > > the
> > > > > discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the Roles &
> > > > > Responsibility scoping document talk page:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Role_of_the_AffCom
> > > > >
> > > > > Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it would
> > be
> > > > > great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards
> > > > > Cornelius
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the
> movement
> > > such
> > > > > > like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board
> of
> > > > > Trustees
> > > > > > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can provide
> > more
> > > > > > details.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > Kiril
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Paulo,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that
> too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > Kiril
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as
> well,
> > > > apart
> > > > > > >> from
> > > > > > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed it
> I
> > > was
> > > > > > under
> > > > > > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
> > > affiliates
> > > > I
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior from
> > the
> > > > > > >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I
> > > really
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
> > > reverted, I
> > > > > > >> actually want to know who planted the false information about
> me
> > > > there
> > > > > > >> which led to this situation.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially demand
> > and
> > > > > > internal
> > > > > > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > > >> Paulo
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> > segunda,
> > > > > > >> 6/05/2019
> > > > > > >> à(s) 10:20:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree
> > that
> > > > more
> > > > > > >> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > > Hello,
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
> > > > officially
> > > > > > >> > informed,
> > > > > > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now
> > unknown
> > > > > > >> sanction,
> > > > > > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as
> > baseless
> > > > and
> > > > > > >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two
> > affiliates,
> > > > > dealt
> > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > >> > by
> > > > > > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part
> of,
> > > > > > occurred
> > > > > > >> > more
> > > > > > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of
> > > > > appalling
> > > > > > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the
> > > > > > accusations
> > > > > > >> > made
> > > > > > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
> > > > > > substantiated.
> > > > > > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with
> > the
> > > > > excuse
> > > > > > >> of a
> > > > > > >> > > need for secrecy.
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come
> the
> > > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary,
> apparently
> > > > > > unchecked
> > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like
> this
> > in
> > > > its
> > > > > > >> > middle,
> > > > > > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all
> > of
> > > us
> > > > > > (both
> > > > > > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this?
> Where
> > > one
> > > > > can
> > > > > > >> > appeal
> > > > > > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless,
> > secretive,
> > > > > > >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed
> to
> > be
> > > > > above
> > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > >> > > suspicion?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the
> > Wikimedia
> > > > > > >> Foundation
> > > > > > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same
> way
> > > we
> > > > do
> > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with
> the
> > > > > > Ombudsman
> > > > > > >> > > Commission?
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > >> > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > > >> ,
> > > > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > >> > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > > ,
> > > > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > >> Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > ,
> > > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Cornelius Kibelka
> > > > > Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
> > > > > Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin
> > > > > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > > > > http://wikimedia.de
> > > > >
> > > > > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
> > allen
> > > > > Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> > > > > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> e.
> > V.
> > > > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > > > unter
> > > > > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt
> > für
> > > > > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

jmh649
Hey Paulo

I imagine many of the board are following this. I am fairly easy to get a
hold of with the "email this user" attached to my user pages. And you can
always leave me a note on Wikipedia itself
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James

Maria Sefidari and Nataliia Tymkiv are the two WMF board members who
directly oversee Affcom's work. We also have the Wikimedia Foundation Board
noticeboard
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard

Affcom sends the board a detailed overview of their work each month. I am
not aware of the specifics of your case but will ask for further details.

Best
James

On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 10:08 AM Paulo Santos Perneta <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Tomasz,
>
> Thank you very much for the information. It is quite unexpected that the
> Board of Trustees can't be officially reached in any way, and we have to
> try to find our way individually to one and each of the trustees, until one
> of them accepts the hot potato in their hands (or not).
>
> I wonder how all this got to this point.
>
> Regards,
> Paulo
>
> Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019
> à(s)
> 17:01:
>
> > As far as I know there is no single E-mail address you can contact Board,
> > but you can try to catch directly any members of the Board who are still
> > brave enough to provide their personal E-mail... This is not that
> > straightforward as you may expect, but first go here:
> >
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
> >
> > than click on any face you may find especially friendly, and then in some
> > cases (not in all) by clicking links in their description, with some good
> > luck  you may land on the page, where there is some contact information
> :-)
> >
> > Or - much simpler: forget rather useless official WMF website, which is
> > tailored rather to impress than to provide any information,  and go to
> > meta:
> >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees
> >
> > where you can find link to meta-userpages of them and then you can
> contact
> > them as usually on wiki.
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> >
> > pon., 6 maj 2019 o 17:09 Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]>
> > napisał(a):
> >
> > > Hello Tomasz,
> > >
> > > Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how
> can
> > > one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here:
> > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/
> > >
> > > I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can
> get
> > > back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for
> > investigation.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Paulo
> > >
> > > Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019
> > > à(s)
> > > 15:57:
> > >
> > > > It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od
> > Trustees,
> > > as
> > > > Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the
> top
> > > > body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
> > > >
> > > > pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > > napisał(a):
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Cornelius,
> > > > >
> > > > > Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of
> AffCom,
> > I
> > > > > really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the AFfCom,
> so
> > > > that
> > > > > I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
> > > > fraudulent
> > > > > and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the Roles &
> > > > > Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
> > > > >
> > > > > Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as if
> > the
> > > > BoT
> > > > > can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the
> > > current
> > > > > light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely
> > > powerful
> > > > > entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and
> > > issuing
> > > > > decrees without following even the most basic principles of due
> > > process.
> > > > > And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It
> > > affects
> > > > > directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community not
> > > > > connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of
> the
> > > > > affiliates involved in that case.
> > > > >
> > > > > And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made
> > last
> > > > year
> > > > > by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a lawyer
> > > > finally
> > > > > looked into them, he come out with exactly the same recommendation
> > and
> > > > > request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole
> > > situation
> > > > > even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
> > > > >
> > > > > It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind
> > everything
> > > > with
> > > > > the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely out
> of
> > > > > process, and against the most elementary principles of Human
> Rights.
> > > > >
> > > > > I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and
> why
> > > it
> > > > > was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction
> > aganitt
> > > > me
> > > > > come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
> > > > >
> > > > > To who should I complaint about this?
> > > > >
> > > > > Paulo
> > > > >
> > > > > Cornelius Kibelka <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> > > > > segunda,
> > > > > 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest
> you
> > > keep
> > > > > the
> > > > > > discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the
> Roles &
> > > > > > Responsibility scoping document talk page:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Role_of_the_AffCom
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it
> would
> > > be
> > > > > > great if you could add your opinion and experience there as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > Cornelius
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the
> > movement
> > > > such
> > > > > > > like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the Board
> > of
> > > > > > Trustees
> > > > > > > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can
> provide
> > > more
> > > > > > > details.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > Kiril
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Paulo,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out that
> > too.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > > Kiril
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as
> > well,
> > > > > apart
> > > > > > > >> from
> > > > > > > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed
> it
> > I
> > > > was
> > > > > > > under
> > > > > > > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
> > > > affiliates
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior
> from
> > > the
> > > > > > > >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in particular. I
> > > > really
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
> > > > reverted, I
> > > > > > > >> actually want to know who planted the false information
> about
> > me
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > >> which led to this situation.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially
> demand
> > > and
> > > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this situation.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > > > >> Paulo
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> > > segunda,
> > > > > > > >> 6/05/2019
> > > > > > > >> à(s) 10:20:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree
> > > that
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > >> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > > Hello,
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
> > > > > officially
> > > > > > > >> > informed,
> > > > > > > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now
> > > unknown
> > > > > > > >> sanction,
> > > > > > > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as
> > > baseless
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two
> > > affiliates,
> > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > >> > by
> > > > > > > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part
> > of,
> > > > > > > occurred
> > > > > > > >> > more
> > > > > > > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort
> of
> > > > > > appalling
> > > > > > > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for
> the
> > > > > > > accusations
> > > > > > > >> > made
> > > > > > > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be
> > > > > > > substantiated.
> > > > > > > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that,
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > excuse
> > > > > > > >> of a
> > > > > > > >> > > need for secrecy.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come
> > the
> > > > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary,
> > apparently
> > > > > > > unchecked
> > > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like
> > this
> > > in
> > > > > its
> > > > > > > >> > middle,
> > > > > > > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of
> all
> > > of
> > > > us
> > > > > > > (both
> > > > > > > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this?
> > Where
> > > > one
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > >> > appeal
> > > > > > > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless,
> > > secretive,
> > > > > > > >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed
> > to
> > > be
> > > > > > above
> > > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > > >> > > suspicion?
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the
> > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > >> Foundation
> > > > > > > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same
> > way
> > > > we
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with
> > the
> > > > > > > Ombudsman
> > > > > > > >> > > Commission?
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > and
> > > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > >> > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > >> ,
> > > > > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > and
> > > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > >> > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Cornelius Kibelka
> > > > > > Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
> > > > > > Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963
> Berlin
> > > > > > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > > > > > http://wikimedia.de
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der Menge
> > > allen
> > > > > > Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> > > > > > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens
> > e.
> > > V.
> > > > > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> > Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > > > > unter
> > > > > > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> Finanzamt
> > > für
> > > > > > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Paulo Santos Perneta
Hi James,

Thank you very much for your reply and heads-ups. I'll contact you in
private, by email, if you don't mind.

Best,
Paulo



James Heilman <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia terça, 7/05/2019 à(s)
00:09:

> Hey Paulo
>
> I imagine many of the board are following this. I am fairly easy to get a
> hold of with the "email this user" attached to my user pages. And you can
> always leave me a note on Wikipedia itself
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Doc_James
>
> Maria Sefidari and Nataliia Tymkiv are the two WMF board members who
> directly oversee Affcom's work. We also have the Wikimedia Foundation Board
> noticeboard
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard
>
> Affcom sends the board a detailed overview of their work each month. I am
> not aware of the specifics of your case but will ask for further details.
>
> Best
> James
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 10:08 AM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Tomasz,
> >
> > Thank you very much for the information. It is quite unexpected that the
> > Board of Trustees can't be officially reached in any way, and we have to
> > try to find our way individually to one and each of the trustees, until
> one
> > of them accepts the hot potato in their hands (or not).
> >
> > I wonder how all this got to this point.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Paulo
> >
> > Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 6/05/2019
> > à(s)
> > 17:01:
> >
> > > As far as I know there is no single E-mail address you can contact
> Board,
> > > but you can try to catch directly any members of the Board who are
> still
> > > brave enough to provide their personal E-mail... This is not that
> > > straightforward as you may expect, but first go here:
> > >
> > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/role/board/
> > >
> > > than click on any face you may find especially friendly, and then in
> some
> > > cases (not in all) by clicking links in their description, with some
> good
> > > luck  you may land on the page, where there is some contact information
> > :-)
> > >
> > > Or - much simpler: forget rather useless official WMF website, which is
> > > tailored rather to impress than to provide any information,  and go to
> > > meta:
> > >
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees
> > >
> > > where you can find link to meta-userpages of them and then you can
> > contact
> > > them as usually on wiki.
> > >
> > > Good luck,
> > >
> > >
> > > pon., 6 maj 2019 o 17:09 Paulo Santos Perneta <[hidden email]
> >
> > > napisał(a):
> > >
> > > > Hello Tomasz,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your answer. In the hypothesis of being the Board, how
> > can
> > > > one contact it? I do not see any address I could use listed here:
> > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/about/contact/
> > > >
> > > > I hope at least some of them are reading this mailing list. They can
> > get
> > > > back to me, in public or private, and I'll send the case for
> > > investigation.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Paulo
> > > >
> > > > Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda,
> 6/05/2019
> > > > à(s)
> > > > 15:57:
> > > >
> > > > > It seems that the only body can help with this is WMF Board od
> > > Trustees,
> > > > as
> > > > > Affcom is the advisory committee of the Board, and the Board is the
> > top
> > > > > body legally responsible for the work of entire WMF.
> > > > >
> > > > > pon., 6 maj 2019 o 15:39 Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > > napisał(a):
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Cornelius,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Apart from the general discussion about the specific role of
> > AffCom,
> > > I
> > > > > > really would like to know who is the entity overseeing the
> AFfCom,
> > so
> > > > > that
> > > > > > I can send an official complaint there about what I believe is a
> > > > > fraudulent
> > > > > > and out of process sanction. This is not a question for the
> Roles &
> > > > > > Responsibilities WG, as The Land has already noted there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since AffCom is an advisory body to the BoT, it doesn't look as
> if
> > > the
> > > > > BoT
> > > > > > can or should interfere directly on AffCom. But then, who? At the
> > > > current
> > > > > > light, AffCom is looking as a very much unchecked and extremely
> > > > powerful
> > > > > > entity, taking decisions out of process, in absolute secrecy, and
> > > > issuing
> > > > > > decrees without following even the most basic principles of due
> > > > process.
> > > > > > And this is not a theoretical question, it is a practical one. It
> > > > affects
> > > > > > directly not only affiliates, but also members of the community
> not
> > > > > > connected to any affiliate, as I had not any connection to any of
> > the
> > > > > > affiliates involved in that case.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And this is not an isolated case. As I told, the accusations made
> > > last
> > > > > year
> > > > > > by AffCom against WMPT never were substantiated, and when a
> lawyer
> > > > > finally
> > > > > > looked into them, he come out with exactly the same
> recommendation
> > > and
> > > > > > request the chapter made itself to the AffCom, before the whole
> > > > situation
> > > > > > even started. So what was behind those accusations, back then?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is very easy and comfortable for the WMF/AffCom to blind
> > > everything
> > > > > with
> > > > > > the excuse that the evidence is secret, but that is completely
> out
> > of
> > > > > > process, and against the most elementary principles of Human
> > Rights.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I want to know who planted this false information at the WMF, and
> > why
> > > > it
> > > > > > was not checked by the WMF, to the point that a secret sanction
> > > aganitt
> > > > > me
> > > > > > come to be in place (since when? till when? no idea).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To who should I complaint about this?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Paulo
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cornelius Kibelka <[hidden email]> escreveu no
> dia
> > > > > > segunda,
> > > > > > 6/05/2019 à(s) 14:14:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think these are good and relevant questions, but I'd suggest
> > you
> > > > keep
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > discussion where it's best placed – on the talk page of the
> > Roles &
> > > > > > > Responsibility scoping document talk page:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/2019_Community_Conversations/Roles_%26_Responsibilities#Role_of_the_AffCom
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Paulo has already started a discussion over there. Kirill, it
> > would
> > > > be
> > > > > > > great if you could add your opinion and experience there as
> well.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > > Cornelius
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 6 May 2019 at 15:11, Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > > > > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > P.S. I would also like to add the other committees in the
> > > movement
> > > > > such
> > > > > > > > like the grantmaking committees. My first go would be the
> Board
> > > of
> > > > > > > Trustees
> > > > > > > > but it is better to see if someone who knows exactly can
> > provide
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > details.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > > Kiril
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 3:03 PM Kiril Simeonovski <
> > > > > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Paulo,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This is an excellent question. I am curious to find out
> that
> > > too.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > > > Kiril
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Mon, May 6, 2019 at 12:13 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > > > > > [hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Actually, I'm not familiar with this specific situation as
> > > well,
> > > > > > apart
> > > > > > > > >> from
> > > > > > > > >> having been informed by my affiliate that WMF had informed
> > it
> > > I
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > under
> > > > > > > > >> some sanction that probably I was unaware of, related to
> > > > > affiliates
> > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > >> not part of and episotes I do not took part.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> This is an outraging, appalling and unbelievable behavior
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >> Wikimedia Foundation in general, and AffCom in
> particular. I
> > > > > really
> > > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > >> like to get to the bottom of this, and more than have it
> > > > > reverted, I
> > > > > > > > >> actually want to know who planted the false information
> > about
> > > me
> > > > > > there
> > > > > > > > >> which led to this situation.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> I hope there is some way to effectively and officially
> > demand
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > internal
> > > > > > > > >> inquiry inside the Wikimedia Foundation over this
> situation.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Best,
> > > > > > > > >> Paulo
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia
> > > > segunda,
> > > > > > > > >> 6/05/2019
> > > > > > > > >> à(s) 10:20:
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I
> agree
> > > > that
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > >> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> > > > > > > > >> [hidden email]>
> > > > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was
> > > > > > officially
> > > > > > > > >> > informed,
> > > > > > > > >> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now
> > > > unknown
> > > > > > > > >> sanction,
> > > > > > > > >> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as
> > > > baseless
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two
> > > > affiliates,
> > > > > > > dealt
> > > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > > >> > by
> > > > > > > > >> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never
> part
> > > of,
> > > > > > > > occurred
> > > > > > > > >> > more
> > > > > > > > >> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort
> > of
> > > > > > > appalling
> > > > > > > > >> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for
> > the
> > > > > > > > accusations
> > > > > > > > >> > made
> > > > > > > > >> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to
> be
> > > > > > > > substantiated.
> > > > > > > > >> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that,
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > excuse
> > > > > > > > >> of a
> > > > > > > > >> > > need for secrecy.
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how
> come
> > > the
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > > >> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary,
> > > apparently
> > > > > > > > unchecked
> > > > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > > > >> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like
> > > this
> > > > in
> > > > > > its
> > > > > > > > >> > middle,
> > > > > > > > >> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of
> > all
> > > > of
> > > > > us
> > > > > > > > (both
> > > > > > > > >> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > More important than that, what can be done about this?
> > > Where
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > >> > appeal
> > > > > > > > >> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless,
> > > > secretive,
> > > > > > > > >> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was
> supposed
> > > to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > above
> > > > > > > > >> all
> > > > > > > > >> > > suspicion?
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the
> > > > Wikimedia
> > > > > > > > >> Foundation
> > > > > > > > >> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the
> same
> > > way
> > > > > we
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > > >> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors,
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > > Ombudsman
> > > > > > > > >> > > Commission?
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > > >> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > > > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > > > > > > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > >> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > >> > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > >> ,
> > > > > > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > >> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > and
> > > > > > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > >> > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > and
> > > > > > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > >> Unsubscribe:
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> > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Cornelius Kibelka
> > > > > > > Internationale Beziehungen | International Relations
> > > > > > > Vorstandsteam | Office of the ED
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963
> > Berlin
> > > > > > > Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0
> > > > > > > http://wikimedia.de
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Stellen Sie sich eine Welt vor, in der jeder Mensch an der
> Menge
> > > > allen
> > > > > > > Wissens frei teilhaben kann. Helfen Sie uns dabei!
> > > > > > > http://spenden.wikimedia.de/
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien
> Wissens
> > > e.
> > > > V.
> > > > > > > Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts
> > > Berlin-Charlottenburg
> > > > > > unter
> > > > > > > der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das
> > Finanzamt
> > > > für
> > > > > > > Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > > > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > > > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > >
> > > --
> > > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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>
>
> --
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> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Who oversees the AffCom?

Paulo Santos Perneta
In reply to this post by Isaac Olatunde
Hello Isaac,

Thank's a lot for your message. The affiliate I belong to has already
requested more details on that sanction. However, from the information
already provided, it is directly related to an AffCom resolution dating
back from 8 April 2018, without any relation to me.

For the moment I am not requesting anything to AffCom, as AffCom has not
even had the decency of informing me of the sanction, and I had to know
about it by 3rd parties in a very embarrassing and outrageous situation.
Also, after several situations where the AffCom was caught distorting the
truth, when not blatantly lying, as it is now, always failing to
substantiate their accusations when requested, I do not deem it to be a
trustworthy body - and the fact that AffCom was left unchecked and
unaccountable for years, even empowered to decide itself its own members,
certainly is not alien to this state of affairs. So I'm not presuming good
faith on AFfCom as well, and I'm requesting a formal investigation on this
and former similar situations involving AffCom.

I do not care much about the sanction itself, though it is quite annoying,
especially to my affiliate, but the fact that it was decided in secrecy,
and its blatant fraudulent nature, with false accusations involving my
person, is quite enraging and outrageous.

Best,
Paulo


Isaac Olatunde <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia terça, 7/05/2019
à(s) 09:54:

> Hi Paulo,
>
> You said you got your information from a WMF source. Right? Is there no
> possibility for you to ask the same WMF source who to direct this question
> to? Have you tried to ask AffCom, WMF SuSa or the community engagement
> team?
>
> In any case, I wish you all the best.
>
> Isaac
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, May 6, 2019, 10:20 AM Benjamin Ikuta <[hidden email]
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm not familiar with this specific situation, but I agree that more
> > transparency and accountability would be good.
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 6, 2019, at 12:40 AM, Paulo Santos Perneta <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > A few days ago the Wikimedia affiliate I belong to was officially
> > informed,
> > > by a WMF source, that I'm being subject to a until now unknown
> sanction,
> > > with an accusation from AffCom I can only describe as baseless and
> > > fraudulent, relating to a a situation between two affiliates, dealt
> with
> > by
> > > AffCom more than one year ago, of which I was never part of, occurred
> > more
> > > than one year ago. I was never informed of this.
> > >
> > > This is not the first time AffCom engages in this sort of appalling
> > > behavior. As far as I know, WMPT is still waiting for the accusations
> > made
> > > by AffCom last year, which led to its suspension, to be substantiated.
> > > AffCom never substantiated anything related to that, with the excuse
> of a
> > > need for secrecy.
> > >
> > > How, I ask you all as members of the Movement, how come the Wikimedia
> > > Movement allowed for such a secretive, arbitrary, apparently unchecked
> > and
> > > very much powerful institution to grow and thrive like this in its
> > middle,
> > > overseeing and effectively controlling the relation of all of us (both
> > > affiliates and individuals) and the WMF?
> > >
> > > More important than that, what can be done about this? Where one can
> > appeal
> > > to, when presented with such fraudulent, baseless, secretive,
> > > unsubstantiated accusations by a body which was supposed to be above
> all
> > > suspicion?
> > >
> > > Can an internal inquiry be demanded somewhere at the Wikimedia
> Foundation
> > > over the activities and decisions of AffCom, in the same way we do with
> > > suspicious activity by checkusers and supervisors, with the Ombudsman
> > > Commission?
> > >
> > > Looking forward for any help and insight on this,
> > >
> > > Paulo - DarwIn
> > > Wikimedia Portugal
> > > _______________________________________________
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