[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

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[Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

Geoff Brigham
Note:  German (Deutsch) and Spanish (Español) versions are below.

***English***

Hi all,

We want to direct your attention to our blog post (
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
about the PRISM situation involving government intelligence
surveillance on the Internet.  We are asking for Wikimedia community
feedback on a proposed course of action (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM ). In short, we are inclined to
recommend that the Wikimedia Foundation collaborate with organizations
including Mozilla, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Free
Software Foundation, and the Center for Democracy and Technology.
These groups have now prepared an open letter to the US congress
(https://www.stopwatching.us/ ), calling for transparency,
investigation, reform, and accountability, and have asked other
organizations (including the Wikimedia Foundation) to join them in
their efforts.

We ask you to read the blog post for more details, and encourage you
to tell us your views on this.

Many thanks,

Geoff and Luis

Geoff Brigham
General Counsel

Luis Villa
Deputy General Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation

Note:  We expect to have a couple more translations of this
announcement in the next couple of days.  We would like to ask the
international Wikimedia community to help translate the blog posting
and feedback page (which are almost the same) as well as people’s
feedback given throughout the course of this consultation period.  Due
to tight time limits, we hope to have professional translations for
these documents posted by next Tuesday for at least German, French,
Spanish, and Japanese.

___________

***Deutsch***

Hallo,

Wir würden eure Aufmerksamkeit gern auf unseren Blogeintrag (
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
zur PRISM-Situation und geheimdienstlicher Überwachung des Internets
lenken. Wir bitten die Wikimediagemeinschaften um Rückmeldung zum
vorgeschlagenen Vorgehen. (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM)

Kurz zusammengefasst tendieren wir dazu zu empfehlen, dass die
Wikimedia Foundation mit Organisationen wie Mozilla, der Electronic
Frontier Foundation, der Free Software Foundation und dem Zentrum für
Demokratie und Technologie zusammenarbeitet. Diese Gruppen haben einen
offenen Brief an den Kongress der Vereinigten Staaten
(https://www.stopwatching.us/) vorbereitet um Transparenz,
Untersuchung der Vorgänge, Reform sowie Rechenschaftspflicht
einzufordern und haben andere Organisationen (einschließlich der
Wikimedia Foundation) darum gebeten dieses Vorhaben zu unterstützen.

Wir bitten euch den Blogeintrag mit den zugehörigen Details zu lesen
und uns eure Meinung zu dem Vorschlag mitzuteilen.

Vielen Dank,

Geoff und Luis

Geoff Brigham
General Counsel

Luis Villa
Deputy General Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation

Hinweis: Wir würden die internationale WIkimediagemeinschaft gern
darum bitten bei der Übersetzung des Blogeintrags und der
Feedbackseite (die beiden sind fast identisch) sowie der Rückmeldungen
aus der Community während der Konsultationsperiode mitzuhelfen. Durch
die kurze Vorbereitungszeit hoffen wir bis Dienstag zumindest
professionelle Übersetzungen für die Dokumente zumindest in Deutsch,
Französisch, Spanisch und Japanisch zu haben.
_______________

***Español***

Hola,

Queremos dirigir su atención a nuestra entrada en el blog (
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
sobre la situación PRISM involucra la vigilancia de inteligencia del
gobierno en Internet. Estamos pidiendo Wikimedia retroalimentación de
la comunidad sobre un curso de acción propuesto. (
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM ) En resumen, nos sentimos
inclinados a recomendar que la Fundación Wikimedia colaborar con
organizaciones como Mozilla, la Fundación Fronteras Electrónicas, la
Fundación para el software libre y el Centro para la Democracia y la
Tecnología. Estos grupos han preparado una carta abierta al Congreso
de EE.UU. (https://www.stopwatching.us/), exigiendo la transparencia,
la investigación, la reforma y la rendición de cuentas, y han pedido a
otras organizaciones (entre ellas la Fundación Wikimedia) a unirse a
ellos en sus esfuerzos.

Le pedimos que lea el blog para más detalles, y le animamos a decirnos
sus puntos de vista sobre esto.

Muchas gracias,

Geoff y Luis

Geoff Brigham
General Counsel

Luis Villa
Deputy General Counsel
Wikimedia Foundation

Nota: Nos gustaría pedir a la comunidad internacional Wikimedia para
ayudar a traducir la entrada de blog y la página de comentarios (que
son casi lo mismo), así como la retroalimentación de las usuarios que
recibieron durante este período de consulta. Debido a los plazos
ajustados, esperamos contar con traducciones profesionales para los
documentos enviados por el próximo martes por lo menos alemán,
francés, español y japonés.

_______________________________________________
Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

Tomasz W. Kozlowski
Geoff,
I'm a bit lost here now that I've read that translation notice more
carefully — are you really saying you want to have this post translated
into German, French, Spanish and Japanese by Tuesday, June 18, and then
for the local communities to comment on it by Friday, June 21?

There is just no way that this can scale in this world.

FYI, I posted a message asking for translations at
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/translators-l/2013-June/002311.html>,
and I'm sure that our amazing volunteer translators can get it
translated into those four languages (and more) by noon on Sunday (PST).

(And again—doing this kind of things on a Friday is a Very Bad Idea[TM].)

        -- Tomasz

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

metasj
Thank you Geoff, it is excellent to see this public statement of
intent and discussion.

And thank you Tomasz for getting the word out to our translators!

SJ



On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 9:19 PM, Tomasz W. Kozlowski
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Geoff,
> I'm a bit lost here now that I've read that translation notice more
> carefully — are you really saying you want to have this post translated into
> German, French, Spanish and Japanese by Tuesday, June 18, and then for the
> local communities to comment on it by Friday, June 21?
>
> There is just no way that this can scale in this world.
>
> FYI, I posted a message asking for translations at
> <http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/translators-l/2013-June/002311.html>,
> and I'm sure that our amazing volunteer translators can get it translated
> into those four languages (and more) by noon on Sunday (PST).
>
> (And again—doing this kind of things on a Friday is a Very Bad Idea[TM].)
>
>         -- Tomasz
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l



--
Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

Bjoern Hoehrmann
In reply to this post by Geoff Brigham
* Geoff Brigham wrote:
>https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/

You are not making a good case there as to what to do and why and how
this community is affected and needs to act. An immediate question seems
to be whether the Wikimedia Foundation should become signatory of the
"Stop Watching Us" open letter. No, the letter puts too much emphasis on
"people in the United States" and "domestic spying" and the Foundation
should not give the impression that that is a special kind of bad. In
the posting above you write:

  Freedom of speech and access to information are core Wikimedia values.
  These values can be compromised by surveillance: editors and readers
  understandably are less willing to write and inform themselves as
  honestly and freely.

Should the U.S. stop gathering intelligence on people in Iran that con-
tribute on the arabic Wikipedia in articles on nuclear physics? Should
the U.S. carefully limit which signals going in and out of North Korea
it intercepts to protect the privacy of the people there, or would it
be okay if the U.S., say, simply intercepts all Internet traffic and
phone calls and filters the data for anything interesting? Should there
be a "special committee to investigate, report, and reveal to the public
the extent of" all the foreign intelligence activity of the U.S.? And
bad countries may do all the same things that good countries may do?

I can see nothing obvious that the Foundation could say or do in this
regard at this time, and would expect the community to develop answers
to questions like mine above before calling for action. So, no, I don't
think the Foundation should join those other organisations at this time.
--
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:[hidden email] · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
Am Badedeich 7 · Telefon: +49(0)160/4415681 · http://www.bjoernsworld.de
25899 Dagebüll · PGP Pub. KeyID: 0xA4357E78 · http://www.websitedev.de/ 

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

Jon Davies
In reply to this post by Geoff Brigham
Speaking as an individual and not on behalf of the chapter (and not as an
American obviously) I think this seems a proportional response but would
encourage everyone in the UK community to share their thoughts.
I think it would be naive to think this was not aimed at US citizens as
well, despite denials, but it certainly has implications for our freedoms
in Europe.

Jon Davies


On 15 June 2013 00:59, Geoff Brigham <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Note:  German (Deutsch) and Spanish (Español) versions are below.
>
> ***English***
>
> Hi all,
>
> We want to direct your attention to our blog post (
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
> about the PRISM situation involving government intelligence
> surveillance on the Internet.  We are asking for Wikimedia community
> feedback on a proposed course of action (
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM ). In short, we are inclined to
> recommend that the Wikimedia Foundation collaborate with organizations
> including Mozilla, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Free
> Software Foundation, and the Center for Democracy and Technology.
> These groups have now prepared an open letter to the US congress
> (https://www.stopwatching.us/ ), calling for transparency,
> investigation, reform, and accountability, and have asked other
> organizations (including the Wikimedia Foundation) to join them in
> their efforts.
>
> We ask you to read the blog post for more details, and encourage you
> to tell us your views on this.
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Geoff and Luis
>
> Geoff Brigham
> General Counsel
>
> Luis Villa
> Deputy General Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Note:  We expect to have a couple more translations of this
> announcement in the next couple of days.  We would like to ask the
> international Wikimedia community to help translate the blog posting
> and feedback page (which are almost the same) as well as people’s
> feedback given throughout the course of this consultation period.  Due
> to tight time limits, we hope to have professional translations for
> these documents posted by next Tuesday for at least German, French,
> Spanish, and Japanese.
>
> ___________
>
> ***Deutsch***
>
> Hallo,
>
> Wir würden eure Aufmerksamkeit gern auf unseren Blogeintrag (
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
> zur PRISM-Situation und geheimdienstlicher Überwachung des Internets
> lenken. Wir bitten die Wikimediagemeinschaften um Rückmeldung zum
> vorgeschlagenen Vorgehen. (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM)
>
> Kurz zusammengefasst tendieren wir dazu zu empfehlen, dass die
> Wikimedia Foundation mit Organisationen wie Mozilla, der Electronic
> Frontier Foundation, der Free Software Foundation und dem Zentrum für
> Demokratie und Technologie zusammenarbeitet. Diese Gruppen haben einen
> offenen Brief an den Kongress der Vereinigten Staaten
> (https://www.stopwatching.us/) vorbereitet um Transparenz,
> Untersuchung der Vorgänge, Reform sowie Rechenschaftspflicht
> einzufordern und haben andere Organisationen (einschließlich der
> Wikimedia Foundation) darum gebeten dieses Vorhaben zu unterstützen.
>
> Wir bitten euch den Blogeintrag mit den zugehörigen Details zu lesen
> und uns eure Meinung zu dem Vorschlag mitzuteilen.
>
> Vielen Dank,
>
> Geoff und Luis
>
> Geoff Brigham
> General Counsel
>
> Luis Villa
> Deputy General Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Hinweis: Wir würden die internationale WIkimediagemeinschaft gern
> darum bitten bei der Übersetzung des Blogeintrags und der
> Feedbackseite (die beiden sind fast identisch) sowie der Rückmeldungen
> aus der Community während der Konsultationsperiode mitzuhelfen. Durch
> die kurze Vorbereitungszeit hoffen wir bis Dienstag zumindest
> professionelle Übersetzungen für die Dokumente zumindest in Deutsch,
> Französisch, Spanisch und Japanisch zu haben.
> _______________
>
> ***Español***
>
> Hola,
>
> Queremos dirigir su atención a nuestra entrada en el blog (
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
> sobre la situación PRISM involucra la vigilancia de inteligencia del
> gobierno en Internet. Estamos pidiendo Wikimedia retroalimentación de
> la comunidad sobre un curso de acción propuesto. (
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM ) En resumen, nos sentimos
> inclinados a recomendar que la Fundación Wikimedia colaborar con
> organizaciones como Mozilla, la Fundación Fronteras Electrónicas, la
> Fundación para el software libre y el Centro para la Democracia y la
> Tecnología. Estos grupos han preparado una carta abierta al Congreso
> de EE.UU. (https://www.stopwatching.us/), exigiendo la transparencia,
> la investigación, la reforma y la rendición de cuentas, y han pedido a
> otras organizaciones (entre ellas la Fundación Wikimedia) a unirse a
> ellos en sus esfuerzos.
>
> Le pedimos que lea el blog para más detalles, y le animamos a decirnos
> sus puntos de vista sobre esto.
>
> Muchas gracias,
>
> Geoff y Luis
>
> Geoff Brigham
> General Counsel
>
> Luis Villa
> Deputy General Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Nota: Nos gustaría pedir a la comunidad internacional Wikimedia para
> ayudar a traducir la entrada de blog y la página de comentarios (que
> son casi lo mismo), así como la retroalimentación de las usuarios que
> recibieron durante este período de consulta. Debido a los plazos
> ajustados, esperamos contar con traducciones profesionales para los
> documentos enviados por el próximo martes por lo menos alemán,
> francés, español y japonés.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately
> directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia
> community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> _______________________________________________
> WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



--
*Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*.  Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169
tweet @jonatreesdavies

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.

Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
From my perspective ... I live outside the USA, PRISM only brings the
American people the same surveillance the rest of the world has had for a
long time. The only difference is that the pretence that the US populace is
not watched is known to be a fiction.
Thanks,
    GerardM


On 15 June 2013 17:57, Jon Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Speaking as an individual and not on behalf of the chapter (and not as an
> American obviously) I think this seems a proportional response but would
> encourage everyone in the UK community to share their thoughts.
> I think it would be naive to think this was not aimed at US citizens as
> well, despite denials, but it certainly has implications for our freedoms
> in Europe.
>
> Jon Davies
>
>
> On 15 June 2013 00:59, Geoff Brigham <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Note:  German (Deutsch) and Spanish (Español) versions are below.
> >
> > ***English***
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We want to direct your attention to our blog post (
> > https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
> > about the PRISM situation involving government intelligence
> > surveillance on the Internet.  We are asking for Wikimedia community
> > feedback on a proposed course of action (
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM ). In short, we are inclined to
> > recommend that the Wikimedia Foundation collaborate with organizations
> > including Mozilla, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Free
> > Software Foundation, and the Center for Democracy and Technology.
> > These groups have now prepared an open letter to the US congress
> > (https://www.stopwatching.us/ ), calling for transparency,
> > investigation, reform, and accountability, and have asked other
> > organizations (including the Wikimedia Foundation) to join them in
> > their efforts.
> >
> > We ask you to read the blog post for more details, and encourage you
> > to tell us your views on this.
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > Geoff and Luis
> >
> > Geoff Brigham
> > General Counsel
> >
> > Luis Villa
> > Deputy General Counsel
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > Note:  We expect to have a couple more translations of this
> > announcement in the next couple of days.  We would like to ask the
> > international Wikimedia community to help translate the blog posting
> > and feedback page (which are almost the same) as well as people’s
> > feedback given throughout the course of this consultation period.  Due
> > to tight time limits, we hope to have professional translations for
> > these documents posted by next Tuesday for at least German, French,
> > Spanish, and Japanese.
> >
> > ___________
> >
> > ***Deutsch***
> >
> > Hallo,
> >
> > Wir würden eure Aufmerksamkeit gern auf unseren Blogeintrag (
> > https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
> > zur PRISM-Situation und geheimdienstlicher Überwachung des Internets
> > lenken. Wir bitten die Wikimediagemeinschaften um Rückmeldung zum
> > vorgeschlagenen Vorgehen. (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM)
> >
> > Kurz zusammengefasst tendieren wir dazu zu empfehlen, dass die
> > Wikimedia Foundation mit Organisationen wie Mozilla, der Electronic
> > Frontier Foundation, der Free Software Foundation und dem Zentrum für
> > Demokratie und Technologie zusammenarbeitet. Diese Gruppen haben einen
> > offenen Brief an den Kongress der Vereinigten Staaten
> > (https://www.stopwatching.us/) vorbereitet um Transparenz,
> > Untersuchung der Vorgänge, Reform sowie Rechenschaftspflicht
> > einzufordern und haben andere Organisationen (einschließlich der
> > Wikimedia Foundation) darum gebeten dieses Vorhaben zu unterstützen.
> >
> > Wir bitten euch den Blogeintrag mit den zugehörigen Details zu lesen
> > und uns eure Meinung zu dem Vorschlag mitzuteilen.
> >
> > Vielen Dank,
> >
> > Geoff und Luis
> >
> > Geoff Brigham
> > General Counsel
> >
> > Luis Villa
> > Deputy General Counsel
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > Hinweis: Wir würden die internationale WIkimediagemeinschaft gern
> > darum bitten bei der Übersetzung des Blogeintrags und der
> > Feedbackseite (die beiden sind fast identisch) sowie der Rückmeldungen
> > aus der Community während der Konsultationsperiode mitzuhelfen. Durch
> > die kurze Vorbereitungszeit hoffen wir bis Dienstag zumindest
> > professionelle Übersetzungen für die Dokumente zumindest in Deutsch,
> > Französisch, Spanisch und Japanisch zu haben.
> > _______________
> >
> > ***Español***
> >
> > Hola,
> >
> > Queremos dirigir su atención a nuestra entrada en el blog (
> > https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
> > sobre la situación PRISM involucra la vigilancia de inteligencia del
> > gobierno en Internet. Estamos pidiendo Wikimedia retroalimentación de
> > la comunidad sobre un curso de acción propuesto. (
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM ) En resumen, nos sentimos
> > inclinados a recomendar que la Fundación Wikimedia colaborar con
> > organizaciones como Mozilla, la Fundación Fronteras Electrónicas, la
> > Fundación para el software libre y el Centro para la Democracia y la
> > Tecnología. Estos grupos han preparado una carta abierta al Congreso
> > de EE.UU. (https://www.stopwatching.us/), exigiendo la transparencia,
> > la investigación, la reforma y la rendición de cuentas, y han pedido a
> > otras organizaciones (entre ellas la Fundación Wikimedia) a unirse a
> > ellos en sus esfuerzos.
> >
> > Le pedimos que lea el blog para más detalles, y le animamos a decirnos
> > sus puntos de vista sobre esto.
> >
> > Muchas gracias,
> >
> > Geoff y Luis
> >
> > Geoff Brigham
> > General Counsel
> >
> > Luis Villa
> > Deputy General Counsel
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > Nota: Nos gustaría pedir a la comunidad internacional Wikimedia para
> > ayudar a traducir la entrada de blog y la página de comentarios (que
> > son casi lo mismo), así como la retroalimentación de las usuarios que
> > recibieron durante este período de consulta. Debido a los plazos
> > ajustados, esperamos contar con traducciones profesionales para los
> > documentos enviados por el próximo martes por lo menos alemán,
> > francés, español y japonés.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately
> > directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia
> > community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*.  Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169
> tweet @jonatreesdavies
>
> Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
> United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
>
> Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

Jon Davies
The reporting in the UK is that it is aimed at 'foreigners'. I think that
is us! Of course that may be for domestic US consumption.

On 15 June 2013 17:56, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hoi,
> From my perspective ... I live outside the USA, PRISM only brings the
> American people the same surveillance the rest of the world has had for a
> long time. The only difference is that the pretence that the US populace is
> not watched is known to be a fiction.
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
>
>
> On 15 June 2013 17:57, Jon Davies <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Speaking as an individual and not on behalf of the chapter (and not as an
> > American obviously) I think this seems a proportional response but would
> > encourage everyone in the UK community to share their thoughts.
> > I think it would be naive to think this was not aimed at US citizens as
> > well, despite denials, but it certainly has implications for our freedoms
> > in Europe.
> >
> > Jon Davies
> >
> >
> > On 15 June 2013 00:59, Geoff Brigham <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Note:  German (Deutsch) and Spanish (Español) versions are below.
> > >
> > > ***English***
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > We want to direct your attention to our blog post (
> > > https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
> > > about the PRISM situation involving government intelligence
> > > surveillance on the Internet.  We are asking for Wikimedia community
> > > feedback on a proposed course of action (
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM ). In short, we are inclined to
> > > recommend that the Wikimedia Foundation collaborate with organizations
> > > including Mozilla, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Free
> > > Software Foundation, and the Center for Democracy and Technology.
> > > These groups have now prepared an open letter to the US congress
> > > (https://www.stopwatching.us/ ), calling for transparency,
> > > investigation, reform, and accountability, and have asked other
> > > organizations (including the Wikimedia Foundation) to join them in
> > > their efforts.
> > >
> > > We ask you to read the blog post for more details, and encourage you
> > > to tell us your views on this.
> > >
> > > Many thanks,
> > >
> > > Geoff and Luis
> > >
> > > Geoff Brigham
> > > General Counsel
> > >
> > > Luis Villa
> > > Deputy General Counsel
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > >
> > > Note:  We expect to have a couple more translations of this
> > > announcement in the next couple of days.  We would like to ask the
> > > international Wikimedia community to help translate the blog posting
> > > and feedback page (which are almost the same) as well as people’s
> > > feedback given throughout the course of this consultation period.  Due
> > > to tight time limits, we hope to have professional translations for
> > > these documents posted by next Tuesday for at least German, French,
> > > Spanish, and Japanese.
> > >
> > > ___________
> > >
> > > ***Deutsch***
> > >
> > > Hallo,
> > >
> > > Wir würden eure Aufmerksamkeit gern auf unseren Blogeintrag (
> > > https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
> > > zur PRISM-Situation und geheimdienstlicher Überwachung des Internets
> > > lenken. Wir bitten die Wikimediagemeinschaften um Rückmeldung zum
> > > vorgeschlagenen Vorgehen. (https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM)
> > >
> > > Kurz zusammengefasst tendieren wir dazu zu empfehlen, dass die
> > > Wikimedia Foundation mit Organisationen wie Mozilla, der Electronic
> > > Frontier Foundation, der Free Software Foundation und dem Zentrum für
> > > Demokratie und Technologie zusammenarbeitet. Diese Gruppen haben einen
> > > offenen Brief an den Kongress der Vereinigten Staaten
> > > (https://www.stopwatching.us/) vorbereitet um Transparenz,
> > > Untersuchung der Vorgänge, Reform sowie Rechenschaftspflicht
> > > einzufordern und haben andere Organisationen (einschließlich der
> > > Wikimedia Foundation) darum gebeten dieses Vorhaben zu unterstützen.
> > >
> > > Wir bitten euch den Blogeintrag mit den zugehörigen Details zu lesen
> > > und uns eure Meinung zu dem Vorschlag mitzuteilen.
> > >
> > > Vielen Dank,
> > >
> > > Geoff und Luis
> > >
> > > Geoff Brigham
> > > General Counsel
> > >
> > > Luis Villa
> > > Deputy General Counsel
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > >
> > > Hinweis: Wir würden die internationale WIkimediagemeinschaft gern
> > > darum bitten bei der Übersetzung des Blogeintrags und der
> > > Feedbackseite (die beiden sind fast identisch) sowie der Rückmeldungen
> > > aus der Community während der Konsultationsperiode mitzuhelfen. Durch
> > > die kurze Vorbereitungszeit hoffen wir bis Dienstag zumindest
> > > professionelle Übersetzungen für die Dokumente zumindest in Deutsch,
> > > Französisch, Spanisch und Japanisch zu haben.
> > > _______________
> > >
> > > ***Español***
> > >
> > > Hola,
> > >
> > > Queremos dirigir su atención a nuestra entrada en el blog (
> > > https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/ )
> > > sobre la situación PRISM involucra la vigilancia de inteligencia del
> > > gobierno en Internet. Estamos pidiendo Wikimedia retroalimentación de
> > > la comunidad sobre un curso de acción propuesto. (
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/PRISM ) En resumen, nos sentimos
> > > inclinados a recomendar que la Fundación Wikimedia colaborar con
> > > organizaciones como Mozilla, la Fundación Fronteras Electrónicas, la
> > > Fundación para el software libre y el Centro para la Democracia y la
> > > Tecnología. Estos grupos han preparado una carta abierta al Congreso
> > > de EE.UU. (https://www.stopwatching.us/), exigiendo la transparencia,
> > > la investigación, la reforma y la rendición de cuentas, y han pedido a
> > > otras organizaciones (entre ellas la Fundación Wikimedia) a unirse a
> > > ellos en sus esfuerzos.
> > >
> > > Le pedimos que lea el blog para más detalles, y le animamos a decirnos
> > > sus puntos de vista sobre esto.
> > >
> > > Muchas gracias,
> > >
> > > Geoff y Luis
> > >
> > > Geoff Brigham
> > > General Counsel
> > >
> > > Luis Villa
> > > Deputy General Counsel
> > > Wikimedia Foundation
> > >
> > > Nota: Nos gustaría pedir a la comunidad internacional Wikimedia para
> > > ayudar a traducir la entrada de blog y la página de comentarios (que
> > > son casi lo mismo), así como la retroalimentación de las usuarios que
> > > recibieron durante este período de consulta. Debido a los plazos
> > > ajustados, esperamos contar con traducciones profesionales para los
> > > documentos enviados por el próximo martes por lo menos alemán,
> > > francés, español y japonés.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Please note: all replies sent to this mailing list will be immediately
> > > directed to Wikimedia-l, the public mailing list of the Wikimedia
> > > community. For more information about Wikimedia-l:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > WikimediaAnnounce-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediaannounce-l
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*.  Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169
> > tweet @jonatreesdavies
> >
> > Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
> > Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
> > Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A
> 4LT.
> > United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
> > movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
> > operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
> > Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.
> >
> > Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



--
*Jon Davies - Chief Executive Wikimedia UK*.  Mobile (0044) 7803 505 169
tweet @jonatreesdavies

Wikimedia UK is a Company Limited by Guarantee registered in England and
Wales, Registered No. 6741827. Registered Charity No.1144513. Registered
Office 4th Floor, Development House, 56-64 Leonard Street, London EC2A 4LT.
United Kingdom. Wikimedia UK is the UK chapter of a global Wikimedia
movement. The Wikimedia projects are run by the Wikimedia Foundation (who
operate Wikipedia, amongst other projects).
Telephone (0044) 207 065 0990.

Visit http://www.wikimedia.org.uk/ and @wikimediauk
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

Fred Bauder-2
> The reporting in the UK is that it is aimed at 'foreigners'. I think that
> is us! Of course that may be for domestic US consumption.

Yes, the thing is, we are an international organization, and, frankly, we
don't vet people politically before they can create an account or edit.
Our trust system is based on their behavior here, not what else they may
be doing in their life. It is inevitable that from time to time we may be
in communication with people that are out of favor with the United States
government. However, I think that is so rare that neither American
intelligence services nor us should waste much time on it. There is a
vanishingly small chance that a request might be directed to us. I doubt
expending hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting such a request is the
best use of our money, but consensus may be different. It is pretty cheap
putting on a brave face when there is little actual danger.

Fred


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Bjoern Hoehrmann
Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:

>* Geoff Brigham wrote:
>>https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/
>
>You are not making a good case there as to what to do and why and how
>this community is affected and needs to act. An immediate question seems
>to be whether the Wikimedia Foundation should become signatory of the
>"Stop Watching Us" open letter. No, the letter puts too much emphasis on
>"people in the United States" and "domestic spying" and the Foundation
>should not give the impression that that is a special kind of bad.
>
>[...]
>
>I can see nothing obvious that the Foundation could say or do in this
>regard at this time, and would expect the community to develop answers
>to questions like mine above before calling for action. So, no, I don't
>think the Foundation should join those other organisations at this time.

I think I mostly agree with what you wrote.

As I commented on the Meta-Wiki talk page,[1] I'd much rather see
Wikimedia Foundation time and energy focused on defining what we stand for
in documents like Sue's recent "Guiding Principles"[2] or the older
"Values" pages.[3][4]

Would most Wikimedians disagree with the type of behavior exhibited by the
U.S. government? I think so. The NSA's actions don't seem to align well
with our values of transparency and openness and user privacy. Does that
mean it's something that we need to formally denounce? No, we should just
keep doing what we're doing. And, as discussed on the Meta-Wiki talk page
and in the blog post, we can work to bolster efforts such as HTTPS support,
which may have a real impact on the underlying issue. These types of
efforts are surely a better use resources rather than signing letters.

Spending limited resources denouncing the latest government abuse (or
potential future abuse) that happens to be in the news (SOPA, PRISM, etc.)
feels faddish ("all of our San Fran neighbors are doing it!") and doesn't
seem particularly mature or productive. I think it's great for the
Wikimedia Foundation to reiterate its values (cf. links 2–4 below) and
work toward creating a world in which we can freely share in the sum of
all human knowledge. Let's do that.

MZMcBride

[1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:PRISM
[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WFGP
[3] https://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Values
[4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Values



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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Wikimedia Announcements] PRISM, government surveillance, and Wikimedia: Request for community feedback

James Alexander-4
To try and keep the discussion in one place it would be great if
people could put their comments on the meta talk page (either as well
as the mailing list or as well as) I'm going to try and copy some
responses there (and from the blog) as well but possibly not
discussions as that gets more complicated.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:PRISM

James Alexander
Legal and Community Advocacy
Wikimedia Foundation
(415) 839-6885 x6716 @jamesofur


On Sat, Jun 15, 2013 at 2:16 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:
>>* Geoff Brigham wrote:
>>>https://blog.wikimedia.org/2013/06/14/prism-surveillance-wikimedia/
>>
>>You are not making a good case there as to what to do and why and how
>>this community is affected and needs to act. An immediate question seems
>>to be whether the Wikimedia Foundation should become signatory of the
>>"Stop Watching Us" open letter. No, the letter puts too much emphasis on
>>"people in the United States" and "domestic spying" and the Foundation
>>should not give the impression that that is a special kind of bad.
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>I can see nothing obvious that the Foundation could say or do in this
>>regard at this time, and would expect the community to develop answers
>>to questions like mine above before calling for action. So, no, I don't
>>think the Foundation should join those other organisations at this time.
>
> I think I mostly agree with what you wrote.
>
> As I commented on the Meta-Wiki talk page,[1] I'd much rather see
> Wikimedia Foundation time and energy focused on defining what we stand for
> in documents like Sue's recent "Guiding Principles"[2] or the older
> "Values" pages.[3][4]
>
> Would most Wikimedians disagree with the type of behavior exhibited by the
> U.S. government? I think so. The NSA's actions don't seem to align well
> with our values of transparency and openness and user privacy. Does that
> mean it's something that we need to formally denounce? No, we should just
> keep doing what we're doing. And, as discussed on the Meta-Wiki talk page
> and in the blog post, we can work to bolster efforts such as HTTPS support,
> which may have a real impact on the underlying issue. These types of
> efforts are surely a better use resources rather than signing letters.
>
> Spending limited resources denouncing the latest government abuse (or
> potential future abuse) that happens to be in the news (SOPA, PRISM, etc.)
> feels faddish ("all of our San Fran neighbors are doing it!") and doesn't
> seem particularly mature or productive. I think it's great for the
> Wikimedia Foundation to reiterate its values (cf. links 2–4 below) and
> work toward creating a world in which we can freely share in the sum of
> all human knowledge. Let's do that.
>
> MZMcBride
>
> [1] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:PRISM
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/WFGP
> [3] https://www.wikimedia.org/wiki/Values
> [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Values
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

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