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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Hajdu Kálmán

Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining  
the future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been  
hold the Wikimedia Conference 2017
in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from  
Representatives
for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference  
program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the meta  
was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No  
Ethernet, no abstract of presentation, nothing.

I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference out  
of the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My  
question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?

Texaner
--
Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Chris Keating-2
Hi Texaner,

I don't think everything that WMCON is meant to be a secret!  I expect/hope
that we'll be hearing more about the WMCON strategy discussions quite soon
- after all, WMF is being very proactive about communicating what's going
on with the strategy.

I can imagine that it takes a little while to take workshop session outputs
and turn them into something that can be usefully emailed around or posted
on Meta.

Regards,

Chris
(User:The Land)

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 8:12 AM, Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining
> the future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been
> hold the Wikimedia Conference 2017
> in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> Representatives
> for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference
> program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the meta
> was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No Ethernet,
> no abstract of presentation, nothing.
>
> I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference out
> of the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
> question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
>
> Texaner
> --
> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik
> i/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Guillaume Paumier-3
In reply to this post by Hajdu Kálmán
Hello Hajdu,

As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from the
Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to digitize
and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
discussions, for example:

* The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by contributors
from Wikimedia Commons:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_Wikimedia_Conference

* The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the Wikimedia
Foundation's Board of Trustees:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_Wikimedia_Conference

The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published this
week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the sessions,
and many participants have shared their work and sessions on Commons (
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Conference_2017
) and on social media (
https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).

I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to look
over until we upload everything else.


2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]>:

>
> Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining the
> future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been hold the
> Wikimedia Conference 2017
> in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> Representatives
> for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference
> program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the meta
> was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No Ethernet,
> no abstract of presentation, nothing.
>
> I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference out of
> the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
> question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
>
> Texaner
> --
> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Guillaume Paumier

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Tanel Pern
Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference and
participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would have been
basically impossible to provide any more information than the conference
website already provides about what took place at this session beforehand,
given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as outlined
in the session overview [1], the participants started from basically
nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important in the next
15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic statements
regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm amazed it
worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed that it
would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :) And though
it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic statements, some of
them unfortunately don't make sense without some background materials.

Just my €0.02,

Tanel


[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_2017/Program#Movement_Strategy

2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier <[hidden email]>:

> Hello Hajdu,
>
> As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from the
> Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
> documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to digitize
> and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
> discussions, for example:
>
> * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by contributors
> from Wikimedia Commons:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
> Wikimedia_Conference
>
> * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the Wikimedia
> Foundation's Board of Trustees:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Sources/
> Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
> Wikimedia_Conference
>
> The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published this
> week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the sessions,
> and many participants have shared their work and sessions on Commons (
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Conference_2017
> ) and on social media (
> https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
>
> I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to look
> over until we upload everything else.
>
>
> 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining
> the
> > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been hold
> the
> > Wikimedia Conference 2017
> > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> > Representatives
> > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference
> > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the
> meta
> > was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No
> Ethernet,
> > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
> >
> > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference out
> of
> > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
> > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
> >
> > Texaner
> > --
> > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Guillaume Paumier
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Yaroslav Blanter
The backside seems to be that those who have been to the conference feel no
incentive to participate in the strategy discussions in the projects, and
these discussions show up as major disappointment (like those on the
English Wikipedia or Wikidata) or do not really interest anybody (at the
Russian Wikivoyage, we compiled a large document, which will likely be
translated to English, moved to Meta and forgotten). Which technically
means that this time, the individual contributors are excluded from
building up the strategy, unless they can do it via chapters and thematic
organizations.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Tanel Pern <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference and
> participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would have been
> basically impossible to provide any more information than the conference
> website already provides about what took place at this session beforehand,
> given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as outlined
> in the session overview [1], the participants started from basically
> nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important in the next
> 15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic statements
> regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm amazed it
> worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed that it
> would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
> participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :) And though
> it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic statements, some of
> them unfortunately don't make sense without some background materials.
>
> Just my €0.02,
>
> Tanel
>
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_
> 2017/Program#Movement_Strategy
>
> 2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Hello Hajdu,
> >
> > As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from the
> > Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
> > documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to digitize
> > and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
> > discussions, for example:
> >
> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by contributors
> > from Wikimedia Commons:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
> > Wikimedia_Conference
> >
> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the Wikimedia
> > Foundation's Board of Trustees:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> movement/2017/Sources/
> > Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
> > Wikimedia_Conference
> >
> > The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published this
> > week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the sessions,
> > and many participants have shared their work and sessions on Commons (
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Conference_2017
> > ) and on social media (
> > https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
> >
> > I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to look
> > over until we upload everything else.
> >
> >
> > 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining
> > the
> > > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been
> hold
> > the
> > > Wikimedia Conference 2017
> > > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> > > Representatives
> > > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference
> > > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the
> > meta
> > > was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No
> > Ethernet,
> > > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
> > >
> > > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference
> out
> > of
> > > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
> > > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
> > >
> > > Texaner
> > > --
> > > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume Paumier
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Guillaume Paumier-3
Hello Yaroslav,

I'm not sure I understand how including affiliates excludes individual
contributors. There are many avenues for people and groups across the
movement to participate on wikis, in person, in video conference, in
off-wiki online discussions, etc. Anyone is welcome to contribute in
multiple tracks (as individual participant, affiliate member, or both)
and in multiple channels.

There were about 100 participants who attended the whole strategy
track at the conference; surely there are more than 100 people across
the projects who want to voice their opinion on the future of the
movement.

Also, the strategy sessions that were held in Berlin only concerned
"Cycle 1" of the discussion, which will end soon. That first cycle is
very open and exploratory and far from the be-all and end-all of the
movement strategy process. I certainly hope that many people
contribute to cycles 2 and 3 (where the convergence and prioritization
will happen) regardless of whether they were in Berlin.


2017-04-06 13:06 GMT-07:00 Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>:

> The backside seems to be that those who have been to the conference feel no
> incentive to participate in the strategy discussions in the projects, and
> these discussions show up as major disappointment (like those on the
> English Wikipedia or Wikidata) or do not really interest anybody (at the
> Russian Wikivoyage, we compiled a large document, which will likely be
> translated to English, moved to Meta and forgotten). Which technically
> means that this time, the individual contributors are excluded from
> building up the strategy, unless they can do it via chapters and thematic
> organizations.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Tanel Pern <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference and
>> participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would have been
>> basically impossible to provide any more information than the conference
>> website already provides about what took place at this session beforehand,
>> given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as outlined
>> in the session overview [1], the participants started from basically
>> nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important in the next
>> 15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic statements
>> regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm amazed it
>> worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed that it
>> would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
>> participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :) And though
>> it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic statements, some of
>> them unfortunately don't make sense without some background materials.
>>
>> Just my €0.02,
>>
>> Tanel
>>
>>
>> [1]
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_
>> 2017/Program#Movement_Strategy
>>
>> 2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> > Hello Hajdu,
>> >
>> > As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from the
>> > Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
>> > documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to digitize
>> > and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
>> > discussions, for example:
>> >
>> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by contributors
>> > from Wikimedia Commons:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
>> > movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
>> > Wikimedia_Conference
>> >
>> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the Wikimedia
>> > Foundation's Board of Trustees:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
>> movement/2017/Sources/
>> > Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
>> > Wikimedia_Conference
>> >
>> > The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published this
>> > week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the sessions,
>> > and many participants have shared their work and sessions on Commons (
>> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Conference_2017
>> > ) and on social media (
>> > https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
>> >
>> > I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to look
>> > over until we upload everything else.
>> >
>> >
>> > 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]>:
>> > >
>> > > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation defining
>> > the
>> > > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been
>> hold
>> > the
>> > > Wikimedia Conference 2017
>> > > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
>> > > Representatives
>> > > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the conference
>> > > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on the
>> > meta
>> > > was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No
>> > Ethernet,
>> > > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
>> > >
>> > > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference
>> out
>> > of
>> > > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
>> > > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
>> > >
>> > > Texaner
>> > > --
>> > > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
>> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillaume Paumier
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > New messages to: [hidden email]
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
>> wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Guillaume Paumier

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Yaroslav Blanter
Hi Guillaume,

the conference of course does not exclude individual participants per se,
nor did I ever imply it was in any way planned. However, we saw that the
previous Strategy discussion was kept in a dedicated place (the strategy
wiki), which attracted everybody who wanted to participate, and created a
critical mass where discussions were possible and meaningful, and
eventually were able to produce the strategy document. Currently the
discussions are spread into 20+ projects (formally 300, but most of them
are struggling and are not able to produce any discussion documents). I
understand the idea, that people should be able to discuss in their own
language and from the perspective of their own project, but it turns out
that the critical mass is not assembled - the discussion is not happening,
just some users leave their more or less extended opinions. In addition,
since 100 the most active movement participants had a chance to discuss the
strategy questions in person, they are (most of them are) not interested in
going to the projects and writing anything there. Which means that even
discussion on the biggest projects, where you would normally expect the
critical mass to be available, is not happening either. Which means Track 2
Cycle 1 is likely to produce nothing, and I am not really looking forward
to Cycle 2. I might be wrong, may be there is smth which I do not see
(though I, being an administrator on 4 projects and speaking 7 languages,
would classify myself as a reasonably active Wikimedia participant), but
this is my current perception.

Cheers
Yaroslav



On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Guillaume Paumier <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello Yaroslav,
>
> I'm not sure I understand how including affiliates excludes individual
> contributors. There are many avenues for people and groups across the
> movement to participate on wikis, in person, in video conference, in
> off-wiki online discussions, etc. Anyone is welcome to contribute in
> multiple tracks (as individual participant, affiliate member, or both)
> and in multiple channels.
>
> There were about 100 participants who attended the whole strategy
> track at the conference; surely there are more than 100 people across
> the projects who want to voice their opinion on the future of the
> movement.
>
> Also, the strategy sessions that were held in Berlin only concerned
> "Cycle 1" of the discussion, which will end soon. That first cycle is
> very open and exploratory and far from the be-all and end-all of the
> movement strategy process. I certainly hope that many people
> contribute to cycles 2 and 3 (where the convergence and prioritization
> will happen) regardless of whether they were in Berlin.
>
>
> 2017-04-06 13:06 GMT-07:00 Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>:
> > The backside seems to be that those who have been to the conference feel
> no
> > incentive to participate in the strategy discussions in the projects, and
> > these discussions show up as major disappointment (like those on the
> > English Wikipedia or Wikidata) or do not really interest anybody (at the
> > Russian Wikivoyage, we compiled a large document, which will likely be
> > translated to English, moved to Meta and forgotten). Which technically
> > means that this time, the individual contributors are excluded from
> > building up the strategy, unless they can do it via chapters and thematic
> > organizations.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Tanel Pern <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference and
> >> participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would have been
> >> basically impossible to provide any more information than the conference
> >> website already provides about what took place at this session
> beforehand,
> >> given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as
> outlined
> >> in the session overview [1], the participants started from basically
> >> nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important in the
> next
> >> 15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic statements
> >> regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm amazed
> it
> >> worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed that
> it
> >> would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
> >> participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :) And
> though
> >> it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic statements, some
> of
> >> them unfortunately don't make sense without some background materials.
> >>
> >> Just my €0.02,
> >>
> >> Tanel
> >>
> >>
> >> [1]
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_
> >> 2017/Program#Movement_Strategy
> >>
> >> 2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier <[hidden email]>:
> >>
> >> > Hello Hajdu,
> >> >
> >> > As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from the
> >> > Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
> >> > documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to digitize
> >> > and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
> >> > discussions, for example:
> >> >
> >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by contributors
> >> > from Wikimedia Commons:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> >> > movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
> >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> >> >
> >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the Wikimedia
> >> > Foundation's Board of Trustees:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> >> movement/2017/Sources/
> >> > Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
> >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> >> >
> >> > The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published this
> >> > week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the sessions,
> >> > and many participants have shared their work and sessions on Commons (
> >> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_Conference_2017
> >> > ) and on social media (
> >> > https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
> >> >
> >> > I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to look
> >> > over until we upload everything else.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]>:
> >> > >
> >> > > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation
> defining
> >> > the
> >> > > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has been
> >> hold
> >> > the
> >> > > Wikimedia Conference 2017
> >> > > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> >> > > Representatives
> >> > > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the
> conference
> >> > > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on
> the
> >> > meta
> >> > > was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No
> >> > Ethernet,
> >> > > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
> >> > >
> >> > > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the conference
> >> out
> >> > of
> >> > > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise. My
> >> > > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
> >> > >
> >> > > Texaner
> >> > > --
> >> > > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> >> > >
> >> > > _______________________________________________
> >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> unsubscribe>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Guillaume Paumier
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Guillaume Paumier
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Gnangarra
I was in Berlin and participated in the strategy track for the three days.
The process was very open used open space approach such that at the end of
days 1 & 2 all I could say is that its been an interesting and thought
provoking sessions because that was how the process was running.  At the
end of day three the information from the first two days helped us to
discuss a number thermatic statements.  If anyone came out of those three
days claiming a clear strategy for the next 15 years they'd be lying, the
process has just begun and the best thing everyone can do is get involved
in every step along the way,. It a big task to properly undertake and it
will take considerable  time along with lots of good faith.  See the
attached photo thats just the notes from one 2 hours session all of which
is being captured and will be reported on shortly.

WMF, WMDE and the Strategy team worked wonders with this process in Berlin,
the plans ahead to bring in even more input discussions will be amazing

On 7 April 2017 at 20:14, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Guillaume,
>
> the conference of course does not exclude individual participants per se,
> nor did I ever imply it was in any way planned. However, we saw that the
> previous Strategy discussion was kept in a dedicated place (the strategy
> wiki), which attracted everybody who wanted to participate, and created a
> critical mass where discussions were possible and meaningful, and
> eventually were able to produce the strategy document. Currently the
> discussions are spread into 20+ projects (formally 300, but most of them
> are struggling and are not able to produce any discussion documents). I
> understand the idea, that people should be able to discuss in their own
> language and from the perspective of their own project, but it turns out
> that the critical mass is not assembled - the discussion is not happening,
> just some users leave their more or less extended opinions. In addition,
> since 100 the most active movement participants had a chance to discuss the
> strategy questions in person, they are (most of them are) not interested in
> going to the projects and writing anything there. Which means that even
> discussion on the biggest projects, where you would normally expect the
> critical mass to be available, is not happening either. Which means Track 2
> Cycle 1 is likely to produce nothing, and I am not really looking forward
> to Cycle 2. I might be wrong, may be there is smth which I do not see
> (though I, being an administrator on 4 projects and speaking 7 languages,
> would classify myself as a reasonably active Wikimedia participant), but
> this is my current perception.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Guillaume Paumier <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Hello Yaroslav,
> >
> > I'm not sure I understand how including affiliates excludes individual
> > contributors. There are many avenues for people and groups across the
> > movement to participate on wikis, in person, in video conference, in
> > off-wiki online discussions, etc. Anyone is welcome to contribute in
> > multiple tracks (as individual participant, affiliate member, or both)
> > and in multiple channels.
> >
> > There were about 100 participants who attended the whole strategy
> > track at the conference; surely there are more than 100 people across
> > the projects who want to voice their opinion on the future of the
> > movement.
> >
> > Also, the strategy sessions that were held in Berlin only concerned
> > "Cycle 1" of the discussion, which will end soon. That first cycle is
> > very open and exploratory and far from the be-all and end-all of the
> > movement strategy process. I certainly hope that many people
> > contribute to cycles 2 and 3 (where the convergence and prioritization
> > will happen) regardless of whether they were in Berlin.
> >
> >
> > 2017-04-06 13:06 GMT-07:00 Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>:
> > > The backside seems to be that those who have been to the conference
> feel
> > no
> > > incentive to participate in the strategy discussions in the projects,
> and
> > > these discussions show up as major disappointment (like those on the
> > > English Wikipedia or Wikidata) or do not really interest anybody (at
> the
> > > Russian Wikivoyage, we compiled a large document, which will likely be
> > > translated to English, moved to Meta and forgotten). Which technically
> > > means that this time, the individual contributors are excluded from
> > > building up the strategy, unless they can do it via chapters and
> thematic
> > > organizations.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Tanel Pern <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference and
> > >> participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would have
> been
> > >> basically impossible to provide any more information than the
> conference
> > >> website already provides about what took place at this session
> > beforehand,
> > >> given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as
> > outlined
> > >> in the session overview [1], the participants started from basically
> > >> nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important in the
> > next
> > >> 15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic statements
> > >> regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm amazed
> > it
> > >> worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed that
> > it
> > >> would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
> > >> participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :) And
> > though
> > >> it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic statements,
> some
> > of
> > >> them unfortunately don't make sense without some background materials.
> > >>
> > >> Just my €0.02,
> > >>
> > >> Tanel
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [1]
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_
> > >> 2017/Program#Movement_Strategy
> > >>
> > >> 2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier <[hidden email]
> >:
> > >>
> > >> > Hello Hajdu,
> > >> >
> > >> > As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from the
> > >> > Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
> > >> > documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to
> digitize
> > >> > and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
> > >> > discussions, for example:
> > >> >
> > >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by
> contributors
> > >> > from Wikimedia Commons:
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > >> > movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
> > >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> > >> >
> > >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the
> Wikimedia
> > >> > Foundation's Board of Trustees:
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > >> movement/2017/Sources/
> > >> > Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
> > >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> > >> >
> > >> > The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published
> this
> > >> > week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the sessions,
> > >> > and many participants have shared their work and sessions on
> Commons (
> > >> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_
> Conference_2017
> > >> > ) and on social media (
> > >> > https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
> > >> >
> > >> > I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to look
> > >> > over until we upload everything else.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]>:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation
> > defining
> > >> > the
> > >> > > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has
> been
> > >> hold
> > >> > the
> > >> > > Wikimedia Conference 2017
> > >> > > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> > >> > > Representatives
> > >> > > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the
> > conference
> > >> > > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page on
> > the
> > >> > meta
> > >> > > was not e bit information about what happened in this section. No
> > >> > Ethernet,
> > >> > > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the
> conference
> > >> out
> > >> > of
> > >> > > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret wise.
> My
> > >> > > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Texaner
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > >> > >
> > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > >> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> > unsubscribe>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Guillaume Paumier
> > >> >
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> unsubscribe>
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume Paumier
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>



--
GN.
President Wikimedia Australia
WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Jane Darnell
I agree with everything Gnangarra said. As I recall, previous strategy
discussions on meta involved fewer people later in the game with fewer
documents produced than what we have now. That said, I think there was a
pretty good representation of chapters at the Berlin conference and
depending on your point of view, because of or in spite of their presence
there were some really fruitful discussions. I say because of or in spite
of their presence since they were in their own "track" at the conference
and not in the "strategy track" that I was in, so I am not exactly clear on
their contribution other than to arrange local meetups.  Yaroslav, if you
want I can quickly take you through the documents that impressed me
personally the most. I know you are really busy with stuff in real life but
you care about future of the art & architecture stuff and things like
copyright issues. If you can't make the Utrecht strategy meetup on 15 April
then maybe we can do a skype call or arrange a Leiden meetup.
https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiZaterdag

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I was in Berlin and participated in the strategy track for the three days.
> The process was very open used open space approach such that at the end of
> days 1 & 2 all I could say is that its been an interesting and thought
> provoking sessions because that was how the process was running.  At the
> end of day three the information from the first two days helped us to
> discuss a number thermatic statements.  If anyone came out of those three
> days claiming a clear strategy for the next 15 years they'd be lying, the
> process has just begun and the best thing everyone can do is get involved
> in every step along the way,. It a big task to properly undertake and it
> will take considerable  time along with lots of good faith.  See the
> attached photo thats just the notes from one 2 hours session all of which
> is being captured and will be reported on shortly.
>
> WMF, WMDE and the Strategy team worked wonders with this process in Berlin,
> the plans ahead to bring in even more input discussions will be amazing
>
> On 7 April 2017 at 20:14, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Guillaume,
> >
> > the conference of course does not exclude individual participants per se,
> > nor did I ever imply it was in any way planned. However, we saw that the
> > previous Strategy discussion was kept in a dedicated place (the strategy
> > wiki), which attracted everybody who wanted to participate, and created a
> > critical mass where discussions were possible and meaningful, and
> > eventually were able to produce the strategy document. Currently the
> > discussions are spread into 20+ projects (formally 300, but most of them
> > are struggling and are not able to produce any discussion documents). I
> > understand the idea, that people should be able to discuss in their own
> > language and from the perspective of their own project, but it turns out
> > that the critical mass is not assembled - the discussion is not
> happening,
> > just some users leave their more or less extended opinions. In addition,
> > since 100 the most active movement participants had a chance to discuss
> the
> > strategy questions in person, they are (most of them are) not interested
> in
> > going to the projects and writing anything there. Which means that even
> > discussion on the biggest projects, where you would normally expect the
> > critical mass to be available, is not happening either. Which means
> Track 2
> > Cycle 1 is likely to produce nothing, and I am not really looking forward
> > to Cycle 2. I might be wrong, may be there is smth which I do not see
> > (though I, being an administrator on 4 projects and speaking 7 languages,
> > would classify myself as a reasonably active Wikimedia participant), but
> > this is my current perception.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Yaroslav
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Guillaume Paumier <
> [hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hello Yaroslav,
> > >
> > > I'm not sure I understand how including affiliates excludes individual
> > > contributors. There are many avenues for people and groups across the
> > > movement to participate on wikis, in person, in video conference, in
> > > off-wiki online discussions, etc. Anyone is welcome to contribute in
> > > multiple tracks (as individual participant, affiliate member, or both)
> > > and in multiple channels.
> > >
> > > There were about 100 participants who attended the whole strategy
> > > track at the conference; surely there are more than 100 people across
> > > the projects who want to voice their opinion on the future of the
> > > movement.
> > >
> > > Also, the strategy sessions that were held in Berlin only concerned
> > > "Cycle 1" of the discussion, which will end soon. That first cycle is
> > > very open and exploratory and far from the be-all and end-all of the
> > > movement strategy process. I certainly hope that many people
> > > contribute to cycles 2 and 3 (where the convergence and prioritization
> > > will happen) regardless of whether they were in Berlin.
> > >
> > >
> > > 2017-04-06 13:06 GMT-07:00 Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>:
> > > > The backside seems to be that those who have been to the conference
> > feel
> > > no
> > > > incentive to participate in the strategy discussions in the projects,
> > and
> > > > these discussions show up as major disappointment (like those on the
> > > > English Wikipedia or Wikidata) or do not really interest anybody (at
> > the
> > > > Russian Wikivoyage, we compiled a large document, which will likely
> be
> > > > translated to English, moved to Meta and forgotten). Which
> technically
> > > > means that this time, the individual contributors are excluded from
> > > > building up the strategy, unless they can do it via chapters and
> > thematic
> > > > organizations.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > > Yaroslav
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Tanel Pern <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference and
> > > >> participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would have
> > been
> > > >> basically impossible to provide any more information than the
> > conference
> > > >> website already provides about what took place at this session
> > > beforehand,
> > > >> given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as
> > > outlined
> > > >> in the session overview [1], the participants started from basically
> > > >> nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important in
> the
> > > next
> > > >> 15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic statements
> > > >> regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm
> amazed
> > > it
> > > >> worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed
> that
> > > it
> > > >> would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
> > > >> participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :) And
> > > though
> > > >> it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic statements,
> > some
> > > of
> > > >> them unfortunately don't make sense without some background
> materials.
> > > >>
> > > >> Just my €0.02,
> > > >>
> > > >> Tanel
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> [1]
> > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_
> > > >> 2017/Program#Movement_Strategy
> > > >>
> > > >> 2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier <
> [hidden email]
> > >:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hello Hajdu,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from
> the
> > > >> > Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
> > > >> > documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to
> > digitize
> > > >> > and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from related
> > > >> > discussions, for example:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by
> > contributors
> > > >> > from Wikimedia Commons:
> > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > >> > movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
> > > >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> > > >> >
> > > >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the
> > Wikimedia
> > > >> > Foundation's Board of Trustees:
> > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > >> movement/2017/Sources/
> > > >> > Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
> > > >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> > > >> >
> > > >> > The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published
> > this
> > > >> > week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the
> sessions,
> > > >> > and many participants have shared their work and sessions on
> > Commons (
> > > >> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_
> > Conference_2017
> > > >> > ) and on social media (
> > > >> > https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
> > > >> >
> > > >> > I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to
> look
> > > >> > over until we upload everything else.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]>:
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation
> > > defining
> > > >> > the
> > > >> > > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has
> > been
> > > >> hold
> > > >> > the
> > > >> > > Wikimedia Conference 2017
> > > >> > > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized from
> > > >> > > Representatives
> > > >> > > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the
> > > conference
> > > >> > > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page
> on
> > > the
> > > >> > meta
> > > >> > > was not e bit information about what happened in this section.
> No
> > > >> > Ethernet,
> > > >> > > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the
> > conference
> > > >> out
> > > >> > of
> > > >> > > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret
> wise.
> > My
> > > >> > > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Texaner
> > > >> > > --
> > > >> > > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > >> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> > > unsubscribe>
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > Guillaume Paumier
> > > >> >
> > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> > unsubscribe>
> > > >> >
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> unsubscribe>
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Guillaume Paumier
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> GN.
> President Wikimedia Australia
> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Yaroslav Blanter
Thanks Jane. No, 15 April 15 is the Easter, I will be hopefully travelling.
May be we will have another opportunity.

However, I still believe that Track 2 has been so far essentially a failure.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Jane Darnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree with everything Gnangarra said. As I recall, previous strategy
> discussions on meta involved fewer people later in the game with fewer
> documents produced than what we have now. That said, I think there was a
> pretty good representation of chapters at the Berlin conference and
> depending on your point of view, because of or in spite of their presence
> there were some really fruitful discussions. I say because of or in spite
> of their presence since they were in their own "track" at the conference
> and not in the "strategy track" that I was in, so I am not exactly clear on
> their contribution other than to arrange local meetups.  Yaroslav, if you
> want I can quickly take you through the documents that impressed me
> personally the most. I know you are really busy with stuff in real life but
> you care about future of the art & architecture stuff and things like
> copyright issues. If you can't make the Utrecht strategy meetup on 15 April
> then maybe we can do a skype call or arrange a Leiden meetup.
> https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiZaterdag
>
> On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I was in Berlin and participated in the strategy track for the three
> days.
> > The process was very open used open space approach such that at the end
> of
> > days 1 & 2 all I could say is that its been an interesting and thought
> > provoking sessions because that was how the process was running.  At the
> > end of day three the information from the first two days helped us to
> > discuss a number thermatic statements.  If anyone came out of those three
> > days claiming a clear strategy for the next 15 years they'd be lying, the
> > process has just begun and the best thing everyone can do is get involved
> > in every step along the way,. It a big task to properly undertake and it
> > will take considerable  time along with lots of good faith.  See the
> > attached photo thats just the notes from one 2 hours session all of which
> > is being captured and will be reported on shortly.
> >
> > WMF, WMDE and the Strategy team worked wonders with this process in
> Berlin,
> > the plans ahead to bring in even more input discussions will be amazing
> >
> > On 7 April 2017 at 20:14, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Guillaume,
> > >
> > > the conference of course does not exclude individual participants per
> se,
> > > nor did I ever imply it was in any way planned. However, we saw that
> the
> > > previous Strategy discussion was kept in a dedicated place (the
> strategy
> > > wiki), which attracted everybody who wanted to participate, and
> created a
> > > critical mass where discussions were possible and meaningful, and
> > > eventually were able to produce the strategy document. Currently the
> > > discussions are spread into 20+ projects (formally 300, but most of
> them
> > > are struggling and are not able to produce any discussion documents). I
> > > understand the idea, that people should be able to discuss in their own
> > > language and from the perspective of their own project, but it turns
> out
> > > that the critical mass is not assembled - the discussion is not
> > happening,
> > > just some users leave their more or less extended opinions. In
> addition,
> > > since 100 the most active movement participants had a chance to discuss
> > the
> > > strategy questions in person, they are (most of them are) not
> interested
> > in
> > > going to the projects and writing anything there. Which means that even
> > > discussion on the biggest projects, where you would normally expect the
> > > critical mass to be available, is not happening either. Which means
> > Track 2
> > > Cycle 1 is likely to produce nothing, and I am not really looking
> forward
> > > to Cycle 2. I might be wrong, may be there is smth which I do not see
> > > (though I, being an administrator on 4 projects and speaking 7
> languages,
> > > would classify myself as a reasonably active Wikimedia participant),
> but
> > > this is my current perception.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Guillaume Paumier <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Yaroslav,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure I understand how including affiliates excludes
> individual
> > > > contributors. There are many avenues for people and groups across the
> > > > movement to participate on wikis, in person, in video conference, in
> > > > off-wiki online discussions, etc. Anyone is welcome to contribute in
> > > > multiple tracks (as individual participant, affiliate member, or
> both)
> > > > and in multiple channels.
> > > >
> > > > There were about 100 participants who attended the whole strategy
> > > > track at the conference; surely there are more than 100 people across
> > > > the projects who want to voice their opinion on the future of the
> > > > movement.
> > > >
> > > > Also, the strategy sessions that were held in Berlin only concerned
> > > > "Cycle 1" of the discussion, which will end soon. That first cycle is
> > > > very open and exploratory and far from the be-all and end-all of the
> > > > movement strategy process. I certainly hope that many people
> > > > contribute to cycles 2 and 3 (where the convergence and
> prioritization
> > > > will happen) regardless of whether they were in Berlin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2017-04-06 13:06 GMT-07:00 Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > The backside seems to be that those who have been to the conference
> > > feel
> > > > no
> > > > > incentive to participate in the strategy discussions in the
> projects,
> > > and
> > > > > these discussions show up as major disappointment (like those on
> the
> > > > > English Wikipedia or Wikidata) or do not really interest anybody
> (at
> > > the
> > > > > Russian Wikivoyage, we compiled a large document, which will likely
> > be
> > > > > translated to English, moved to Meta and forgotten). Which
> > technically
> > > > > means that this time, the individual contributors are excluded from
> > > > > building up the strategy, unless they can do it via chapters and
> > > thematic
> > > > > organizations.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Yaroslav
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Tanel Pern <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference
> and
> > > > >> participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would
> have
> > > been
> > > > >> basically impossible to provide any more information than the
> > > conference
> > > > >> website already provides about what took place at this session
> > > > beforehand,
> > > > >> given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as
> > > > outlined
> > > > >> in the session overview [1], the participants started from
> basically
> > > > >> nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important in
> > the
> > > > next
> > > > >> 15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic statements
> > > > >> regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm
> > amazed
> > > > it
> > > > >> worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed
> > that
> > > > it
> > > > >> would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
> > > > >> participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :)
> And
> > > > though
> > > > >> it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic statements,
> > > some
> > > > of
> > > > >> them unfortunately don't make sense without some background
> > materials.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Just my €0.02,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Tanel
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [1]
> > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_
> > > > >> 2017/Program#Movement_Strategy
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hello Hajdu,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from
> > the
> > > > >> > Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
> > > > >> > documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to
> > > digitize
> > > > >> > and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from
> related
> > > > >> > discussions, for example:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by
> > > contributors
> > > > >> > from Wikimedia Commons:
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > > >> > movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
> > > > >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the
> > > Wikimedia
> > > > >> > Foundation's Board of Trustees:
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > > >> movement/2017/Sources/
> > > > >> > Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
> > > > >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be published
> > > this
> > > > >> > week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the
> > sessions,
> > > > >> > and many participants have shared their work and sessions on
> > > Commons (
> > > > >> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_
> > > Conference_2017
> > > > >> > ) and on social media (
> > > > >> > https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to
> > look
> > > > >> > over until we upload everything else.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]>:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic conversation
> > > > defining
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend has
> > > been
> > > > >> hold
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia Conference 2017
> > > > >> > > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized
> from
> > > > >> > > Representatives
> > > > >> > > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the
> > > > conference
> > > > >> > > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference page
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > >> > meta
> > > > >> > > was not e bit information about what happened in this section.
> > No
> > > > >> > Ethernet,
> > > > >> > > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the
> > > conference
> > > > >> out
> > > > >> > of
> > > > >> > > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret
> > wise.
> > > My
> > > > >> > > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Texaner
> > > > >> > > --
> > > > >> > > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > >> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --
> > > > >> > Guillaume Paumier
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ,
> > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> > > unsubscribe>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> > unsubscribe>
> > > > >>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Guillaume Paumier
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > President Wikimedia Australia
> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Chico Venancio
Yaroslav,

What did you wish to see in the Track B discussions that was absent thus
far? Have you read the strategy portal? Specifically the process page and
the audit of past processes?
To doom a process from its beginning stages to failure on an unknown reason
is, at least, extremely hasty. Please involve yourself and others in the
strategy discussion in a constructive manner. This is just beginning.
Cheers,

Chico Venancio


Em 8 de abr de 2017 07:45, "Yaroslav Blanter" <[hidden email]> escreveu:

Thanks Jane. No, 15 April 15 is the Easter, I will be hopefully travelling.
May be we will have another opportunity.

However, I still believe that Track 2 has been so far essentially a failure.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Jane Darnell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I agree with everything Gnangarra said. As I recall, previous strategy
> discussions on meta involved fewer people later in the game with fewer
> documents produced than what we have now. That said, I think there was a
> pretty good representation of chapters at the Berlin conference and
> depending on your point of view, because of or in spite of their presence
> there were some really fruitful discussions. I say because of or in spite
> of their presence since they were in their own "track" at the conference
> and not in the "strategy track" that I was in, so I am not exactly clear
on
> their contribution other than to arrange local meetups.  Yaroslav, if you
> want I can quickly take you through the documents that impressed me
> personally the most. I know you are really busy with stuff in real life
but
> you care about future of the art & architecture stuff and things like
> copyright issues. If you can't make the Utrecht strategy meetup on 15
April

> then maybe we can do a skype call or arrange a Leiden meetup.
> https://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/WikiZaterdag
>
> On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 3:20 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I was in Berlin and participated in the strategy track for the three
> days.
> > The process was very open used open space approach such that at the end
> of
> > days 1 & 2 all I could say is that its been an interesting and thought
> > provoking sessions because that was how the process was running.  At the
> > end of day three the information from the first two days helped us to
> > discuss a number thermatic statements.  If anyone came out of those
three
> > days claiming a clear strategy for the next 15 years they'd be lying,
the
> > process has just begun and the best thing everyone can do is get
involved
> > in every step along the way,. It a big task to properly undertake and it
> > will take considerable  time along with lots of good faith.  See the
> > attached photo thats just the notes from one 2 hours session all of
which

> > is being captured and will be reported on shortly.
> >
> > WMF, WMDE and the Strategy team worked wonders with this process in
> Berlin,
> > the plans ahead to bring in even more input discussions will be amazing
> >
> > On 7 April 2017 at 20:14, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Guillaume,
> > >
> > > the conference of course does not exclude individual participants per
> se,
> > > nor did I ever imply it was in any way planned. However, we saw that
> the
> > > previous Strategy discussion was kept in a dedicated place (the
> strategy
> > > wiki), which attracted everybody who wanted to participate, and
> created a
> > > critical mass where discussions were possible and meaningful, and
> > > eventually were able to produce the strategy document. Currently the
> > > discussions are spread into 20+ projects (formally 300, but most of
> them
> > > are struggling and are not able to produce any discussion documents).
I
> > > understand the idea, that people should be able to discuss in their
own
> > > language and from the perspective of their own project, but it turns
> out
> > > that the critical mass is not assembled - the discussion is not
> > happening,
> > > just some users leave their more or less extended opinions. In
> addition,
> > > since 100 the most active movement participants had a chance to
discuss
> > the
> > > strategy questions in person, they are (most of them are) not
> interested
> > in
> > > going to the projects and writing anything there. Which means that
even
> > > discussion on the biggest projects, where you would normally expect
the

> > > critical mass to be available, is not happening either. Which means
> > Track 2
> > > Cycle 1 is likely to produce nothing, and I am not really looking
> forward
> > > to Cycle 2. I might be wrong, may be there is smth which I do not see
> > > (though I, being an administrator on 4 projects and speaking 7
> languages,
> > > would classify myself as a reasonably active Wikimedia participant),
> but
> > > this is my current perception.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 9:20 AM, Guillaume Paumier <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello Yaroslav,
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure I understand how including affiliates excludes
> individual
> > > > contributors. There are many avenues for people and groups across
the
> > > > movement to participate on wikis, in person, in video conference, in
> > > > off-wiki online discussions, etc. Anyone is welcome to contribute in
> > > > multiple tracks (as individual participant, affiliate member, or
> both)
> > > > and in multiple channels.
> > > >
> > > > There were about 100 participants who attended the whole strategy
> > > > track at the conference; surely there are more than 100 people
across
> > > > the projects who want to voice their opinion on the future of the
> > > > movement.
> > > >
> > > > Also, the strategy sessions that were held in Berlin only concerned
> > > > "Cycle 1" of the discussion, which will end soon. That first cycle
is
> > > > very open and exploratory and far from the be-all and end-all of the
> > > > movement strategy process. I certainly hope that many people
> > > > contribute to cycles 2 and 3 (where the convergence and
> prioritization
> > > > will happen) regardless of whether they were in Berlin.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2017-04-06 13:06 GMT-07:00 Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>:
> > > > > The backside seems to be that those who have been to the
conference

> > > feel
> > > > no
> > > > > incentive to participate in the strategy discussions in the
> projects,
> > > and
> > > > > these discussions show up as major disappointment (like those on
> the
> > > > > English Wikipedia or Wikidata) or do not really interest anybody
> (at
> > > the
> > > > > Russian Wikivoyage, we compiled a large document, which will
likely
> > be
> > > > > translated to English, moved to Meta and forgotten). Which
> > technically
> > > > > means that this time, the individual contributors are excluded
from

> > > > > building up the strategy, unless they can do it via chapters and
> > > thematic
> > > > > organizations.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers
> > > > > Yaroslav
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Tanel Pern <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Just to add to this as someone who (also) was at the conference
> and
> > > > >> participated in a few of the strategy track sessions, it would
> have
> > > been
> > > > >> basically impossible to provide any more information than the
> > > conference
> > > > >> website already provides about what took place at this session
> > > > beforehand,
> > > > >> given the extremely open-ended nature of the discussions. Just as
> > > > outlined
> > > > >> in the session overview [1], the participants started from
> basically
> > > > >> nothing (other than their ideas of what's going to be important
in
> > the
> > > > next
> > > > >> 15 years) and ended up formulating a few dozen thematic
statements

> > > > >> regarding the strategic direction of the movement. Frankly, I'm
> > amazed
> > > > it
> > > > >> worked as well as it did. At the same time, I'm not at all amazed
> > that
> > > > it
> > > > >> would take time to digitize the materials, given how many people
> > > > >> participated in the session and how much paper they consumed :)
> And
> > > > though
> > > > >> it wouldn't be difficult to publish the final thematic
statements,

> > > some
> > > > of
> > > > >> them unfortunately don't make sense without some background
> > materials.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Just my €0.02,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Tanel
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [1]
> > > > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Conference_
> > > > >> 2017/Program#Movement_Strategy
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 2017-04-06 16:42 GMT+03:00 Guillaume Paumier <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hello Hajdu,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > As Chris mentioned, there is a lot of documentation coming from
> > the
> > > > >> > Wikimedia conference in Berlin. In fact, there is so much
> > > > >> > documentation that it's going to take the team a few days to
> > > digitize
> > > > >> > and publish everything. You can see some of the notes from
> related
> > > > >> > discussions, for example:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by
> > > contributors
> > > > >> > from Wikimedia Commons:
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > > >> > movement/2017/Sources/Commons_in-person_discussion_at_the_
> > > > >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > * The notes from a discussion about movement strategy by the
> > > Wikimedia
> > > > >> > Foundation's Board of Trustees:
> > > > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_
> > > > >> movement/2017/Sources/
> > > > >> > Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_of_Trustees_-_Discussion_at_the_
> > > > >> > Wikimedia_Conference
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > The rest of the notes, photos, summaries, etc. will be
published

> > > this
> > > > >> > week or the next. There was nothing confidential about the
> > sessions,
> > > > >> > and many participants have shared their work and sessions on
> > > Commons (
> > > > >> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Wikimedia_
> > > Conference_2017
> > > > >> > ) and on social media (
> > > > >> > https://twitter.com/search?q=wmcon%20strategy&src=typd ).
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I hope that this reassures you and gives you some materials to
> > look
> > > > >> > over until we upload everything else.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > 2017-04-05 0:12 GMT-07:00 Hajdu Kálmán <[hidden email]>:
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Hi, There is a very active campaign for strategic
conversation
> > > > defining
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > future role of Wikimedia in the world. In the last weekend
has

> > > been
> > > > >> hold
> > > > >> > the
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia Conference 2017
> > > > >> > > in Berlin. On this conference was a spacial group organized
> from
> > > > >> > > Representatives
> > > > >> > > for the Movement Strategy Track. I paid great attention the
> > > > conference
> > > > >> > > program, but unlike the former practice on the conference
page
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > >> > meta
> > > > >> > > was not e bit information about what happened in this
section.

> > No
> > > > >> > Ethernet,
> > > > >> > > no abstract of presentation, nothing.
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > I don't understand the new policy of organizers, that the
> > > conference
> > > > >> out
> > > > >> > of
> > > > >> > > the ordinary way was hold in totally confidential or secret
> > wise.
> > > My
> > > > >> > > question this should bee the new Wikimedia strategy?
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > Texaner
> > > > >> > > --
> > > > >> > > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > >> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > >> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> > > > unsubscribe>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --
> > > > >> > Guillaume Paumier
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > _______________________________________________
> > > > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > > ,
> > > > >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> > > unsubscribe>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > >> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > > ,
> > > > >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=
> > unsubscribe>
> > > > >>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
> > mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Guillaume Paumier
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > > > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/
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> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> > President Wikimedia Australia
> > WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Tomasz Ganicz
In reply to this post by Yaroslav Blanter
2017-04-08 12:44 GMT+02:00 Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>:

> Thanks Jane. No, 15 April 15 is the Easter, I will be hopefully travelling.
> May be we will have another opportunity.
>
> However, I still believe that Track 2 has been so far essentially a
> failure.
>
>
Why? On at least several languages and projects on-wiki discussions are
quite active. On Polish Wikipedia 31 people participated till now, and 3 of
them were also participating in the discussions in Berlin. We would never
heard those 29 if the track B wouldn't been set up. It is true that it is
hard to persuade people from small projects to join discussion, mainly
because they are usually focused on their own little corners of wikimedia
world, and simply have no any opinion about the future of the movement as a
whole, but that is OK, at least they got opportunity to participate in the
process.



--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Yaroslav Blanter
Hi Tomasz,

may be the Polish Wikipedia is an exception, I do not know. I have the
strategy discussions on the English Wikipedia, Wikidata, Meta, and Russian
Wikivoyage on my watchlists, and I posted on all of them. On the first
three I do not see any discussion happening (and on Wikidata, Szymon even
posted on my talk page asking my opinion on how the discussion could be
facilitated - and unfortunately I did not had much to answer), just users
come and post their opinions (which often are not even related to
strategy). On the Russian Wikivoyage, all of our active partipants produced
a document, to be told by the facilitator that this is not what WMF wants
to see. None of us has been to the Wikimedia Conference, and, in fact, we
do have issues with Wikimedia.ru for years, so I do not expect this
document to go anywhere. May be I am wrong, but, again, I participated in
the last time strategy discussion, and I had a feeling that we are being
listened to. Now I do not have this feeling anymore, quite the opposite.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2017-04-08 12:44 GMT+02:00 Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Thanks Jane. No, 15 April 15 is the Easter, I will be hopefully
> travelling.
> > May be we will have another opportunity.
> >
> > However, I still believe that Track 2 has been so far essentially a
> > failure.
> >
> >
> Why? On at least several languages and projects on-wiki discussions are
> quite active. On Polish Wikipedia 31 people participated till now, and 3 of
> them were also participating in the discussions in Berlin. We would never
> heard those 29 if the track B wouldn't been set up. It is true that it is
> hard to persuade people from small projects to join discussion, mainly
> because they are usually focused on their own little corners of wikimedia
> world, and simply have no any opinion about the future of the movement as a
> whole, but that is OK, at least they got opportunity to participate in the
> process.
>
>
>
> --
> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

metasj
Yaroslav: thanks for these thoughts.  Could you link to the RU Voyage
document?  How was it different from what a facilitator expected?

Let's see if we can all make a better central discussion space, and make
brainstorming by individual-contributors more satisfying & w/fast feedback
loops from one another.  I think individuals, smaller/newer projects, and
interested non-Wikimedians have a natural advantage in imagining new
possibilities, so their brainstorming deserves every attention.

A related question: will the result of this process be a strategy for the
movement?  How will large groups within the movement (the WMF, the largest
WP communities, the largest affiliates) connect this with their own
existing strategies?  Let's make this much clearer than it was in 2010!

Wiki♥, SJ


On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 8:29 AM, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Tomasz,
>
> may be the Polish Wikipedia is an exception, I do not know. I have the
> strategy discussions on the English Wikipedia, Wikidata, Meta, and Russian
> Wikivoyage on my watchlists, and I posted on all of them. On the first
> three I do not see any discussion happening (and on Wikidata, Szymon even
> posted on my talk page asking my opinion on how the discussion could be
> facilitated - and unfortunately I did not had much to answer), just users
> come and post their opinions (which often are not even related to
> strategy). On the Russian Wikivoyage, all of our active partipants produced
> a document, to be told by the facilitator that this is not what WMF wants
> to see. None of us has been to the Wikimedia Conference, and, in fact, we
> do have issues with Wikimedia.ru for years, so I do not expect this
> document to go anywhere. May be I am wrong, but, again, I participated in
> the last time strategy discussion, and I had a feeling that we are being
> listened to. Now I do not have this feeling anymore, quite the opposite.
>
> Cheers
> Yaroslav
>
> On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 1:47 PM, Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > 2017-04-08 12:44 GMT+02:00 Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > Thanks Jane. No, 15 April 15 is the Easter, I will be hopefully
> > travelling.
> > > May be we will have another opportunity.
> > >
> > > However, I still believe that Track 2 has been so far essentially a
> > > failure.
> > >
> > >
> > Why? On at least several languages and projects on-wiki discussions are
> > quite active. On Polish Wikipedia 31 people participated till now, and 3
> of
> > them were also participating in the discussions in Berlin. We would never
> > heard those 29 if the track B wouldn't been set up. It is true that it is
> > hard to persuade people from small projects to join discussion, mainly
> > because they are usually focused on their own little corners of wikimedia
> > world, and simply have no any opinion about the future of the movement
> as a
> > whole, but that is OK, at least they got opportunity to participate in
> the
> > process.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
> > http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> > wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/
> wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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>



--
Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Rogol Domedonfors
In reply to this post by Yaroslav Blanter
On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 1:29 PM, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:

> [...] On the Russian Wikivoyage, all of our active partipants produced
> a document, to be told by the facilitator that this is not what WMF wants
> to see.
>

This does not strike me as a description of what a facilitator should have
been doing.

"Rogol"
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Conference 2017 versus movement strategy

Yaroslav Blanter
Hi SJ,

thanks. The document is here

https://ru.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82:%D0%A1%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%8F

the table at the bottom, and a short English summary at the very bottom,
but the table is still in Russian, I will be translating it shortly.

I think one single place to discuss is vitally important. It is too late
for step 1 which is about to finish (next week?), but if we want to get
smth from step 2, we should assemble a critical mass. I do not know whether
it would be easy to get both individual contributors and thematic
organizations to get to the same place (thematic organizations are better
organized, have already discussed strategy, and may have less incentive to
discuss in writing), but it is definitely worth to try, Of course in the
end someone will have to write the strategy document, but this is the way
to get the community input, and, in particular, the editing community.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Rogol Domedonfors <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Sat, Apr 8, 2017 at 1:29 PM, Yaroslav Blanter <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > [...] On the Russian Wikivoyage, all of our active partipants produced
> > a document, to be told by the facilitator that this is not what WMF wants
> > to see.
> >
>
> This does not strike me as a description of what a facilitator should have
> been doing.
>
> "Rogol"
> _______________________________________________
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