[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Fæ
Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
to the global climate strike today.

Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
WMF uses?

I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
whether there is year on year improvement, or none.

Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.

Links:
1. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701

Fae
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Adrian Raddatz
I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does not
make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope
that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so
executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather than
a useful one.

Adrian


On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
> to the global climate strike today.
>
> Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
> WMF uses?
>
> I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
> how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
> of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
> of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
> CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
> when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
> whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
>
> Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
>
> Links:
> 1.
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
>
> Fae
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Fæ
Except, that's probably not statistically true.

If the management team is responsible for 50% of air travel, then the
figures from the environmental impact survey indicate that amounts to
15% of the entire contribution to CO2 emissions for the WMF. However
you reframe or spin the WSJ article, the CEO spending 200 days on the
road last year, rather than, say, cutting that number in half by using
the telephone or other virtual conferencing technology, must be a
significant factor in those numbers.

The contribution actually is higher than that, as the impact made from
the published impact from WMF use of hotels, probably pushes that 15%
figure to over 20%.

It's simple maths, not rocket science. Of course if real firm figures
about air travel by the management team were published by the WMF,
rather than estimates, we could start calculating the impact of
specific year on year improvement, rather than relying on high level
statements about the aims for the current year and end of year "good
news" selective summaries of how well everyone has done. Facts and
measurable commitments would be super useful, rather than
sensationalism, as you agree.

Thanks
Fae

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:28, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does not
> make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope
> that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so
> executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather than
> a useful one.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
> > to the global climate strike today.
> >
> > Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> > significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
> > WMF uses?
> >
> > I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
> > how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> > Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
> > of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
> > of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
> > CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> > often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
> > when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> > change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> > the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
> > whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
> >
> > Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
> >
> > Links:
> > 1.
> > https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
> >
> > Fae
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Peter Southwood
It would be more meaningful to derive a net value to the world ecosystem due to such travel, but that is not easily amenable to calculation. However it is probably more positive than your regular punter's vacation in the Caribbean.
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Fæ
Sent: 20 September 2019 15:47
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Except, that's probably not statistically true.

If the management team is responsible for 50% of air travel, then the
figures from the environmental impact survey indicate that amounts to
15% of the entire contribution to CO2 emissions for the WMF. However
you reframe or spin the WSJ article, the CEO spending 200 days on the
road last year, rather than, say, cutting that number in half by using
the telephone or other virtual conferencing technology, must be a
significant factor in those numbers.

The contribution actually is higher than that, as the impact made from
the published impact from WMF use of hotels, probably pushes that 15%
figure to over 20%.

It's simple maths, not rocket science. Of course if real firm figures
about air travel by the management team were published by the WMF,
rather than estimates, we could start calculating the impact of
specific year on year improvement, rather than relying on high level
statements about the aims for the current year and end of year "good
news" selective summaries of how well everyone has done. Facts and
measurable commitments would be super useful, rather than
sensationalism, as you agree.

Thanks
Fae

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:28, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does not
> make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope
> that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so
> executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather than
> a useful one.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
> > to the global climate strike today.
> >
> > Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> > significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
> > WMF uses?
> >
> > I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
> > how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> > Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
> > of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
> > of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
> > CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> > often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
> > when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> > change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> > the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
> > whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
> >
> > Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
> >
> > Links:
> > 1.
> > https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
> >
> > Fae
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Lucas Werkmeister-2
In reply to this post by Fæ
Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1]
[2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air –
some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows
that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the
electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.

Cheers,
Lucas

[1]:
https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation-is-making-efforts-to-go-green
[2]:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_Assessment_and_Carbon_Footprint.pdf

On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:

> Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
> to the global climate strike today.
>
> Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
> WMF uses?
>
> I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
> how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
> of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
> of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
> CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
> when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
> whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
>
> Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
>
> Links:
> 1. https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
>
> Fae
>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Fæ
Those publications are where my numbers came from. There is no useful
transparency to explain how many actual flights are taken, why or by whom.

Fae

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 15:17 Lucas Werkmeister, <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1]
> [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air –
> some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows
> that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the
> electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.
>
> Cheers,
> Lucas
>
> [1]:
>
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation-is-making-efforts-to-go-green
> [2]:
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_Assessment_and_Carbon_Footprint.pdf
>
> On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:
> > Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
> > to the global climate strike today.
> >
> > Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> > significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
> > WMF uses?
> >
> > I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
> > how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> > Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
> > of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
> > of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
> > CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> > often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
> > when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> > change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> > the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
> > whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
> >
> > Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
> >
> > Links:
> > 1.
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
> >
> > Fae
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Joseph Seddon-4
Because # of flights is not a useful metric for assessing environmental
impact.

Seddon

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:23 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Those publications are where my numbers came from. There is no useful
> transparency to explain how many actual flights are taken, why or by whom.
>
> Fae
>
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 15:17 Lucas Werkmeister, <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1]
> > [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air –
> > some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows
> > that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the
> > electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Lucas
> >
> > [1]:
> >
> >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation-is-making-efforts-to-go-green
> > [2]:
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_Assessment_and_Carbon_Footprint.pdf
> >
> > On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:
> > > Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
> > > to the global climate strike today.
> > >
> > > Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> > > significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
> > > WMF uses?
> > >
> > > I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
> > > how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> > > Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
> > > of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
> > > of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
> > > CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> > > often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
> > > when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> > > change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> > > the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
> > > whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
> > >
> > > Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of
> urgency.
> > >
> > > Links:
> > > 1.
> >
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
> > >
> > > Fae
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Fæ
Sure, but it seems more realistic than calculating the CO2
contributions from the management team compared to all the other
employees.

At the end of the day, how many flights the executive team take as
part of their jobs, and working out whether they are flying less or
more in 2019 compared to 2018, is an very simple and useful fact to be
open and transparent about. Doing so gives everyone a great incentive
to do better.

Considering the WMF is getting ethical gold stars by putting a Climate
Change banner over the entirety of its website landing page, it is
reasonable to expect that the organization starts by changing itself
and turn the non-committal statements in the WMF presentation from "we
will consider" and "we will seek" in to a meaningful and measurable
"we will act".

Thanks,
Fae

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 17:58, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Because # of flights is not a useful metric for assessing environmental
> impact.
>
> Seddon
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:23 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Those publications are where my numbers came from. There is no useful
> > transparency to explain how many actual flights are taken, why or by whom.
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 15:17 Lucas Werkmeister, <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday [1]
> > > [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air –
> > > some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows
> > > that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the
> > > electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Lucas
> > >
> > > [1]:
> > >
> > >
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation-is-making-efforts-to-go-green
> > > [2]:
> > >
> > >
> > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_Assessment_and_Carbon_Footprint.pdf
> > >
> > > On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:
> > > > Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
> > > > to the global climate strike today.
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> > > > significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
> > > > WMF uses?
> > > >
> > > > I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
> > > > how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> > > > Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
> > > > of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
> > > > of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
> > > > CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> > > > often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
> > > > when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> > > > change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> > > > the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
> > > > whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of
> > urgency.
> > > >
> > > > Links:
> > > > 1.
> > >
> > https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
> > > >
> > > > Fae
> > > >

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Yaroslav Blanter
If we are discussing such things, why do not we are discussing whether WMF
employees are driving to the work or taking public transportation? Or
chapter employees? Or volunteers? Or whether volunteers switch off the
light when they leave a room (I actually do)?

I really do not think this is a reasonable avenue to proceed.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 7:53 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sure, but it seems more realistic than calculating the CO2
> contributions from the management team compared to all the other
> employees.
>
> At the end of the day, how many flights the executive team take as
> part of their jobs, and working out whether they are flying less or
> more in 2019 compared to 2018, is an very simple and useful fact to be
> open and transparent about. Doing so gives everyone a great incentive
> to do better.
>
> Considering the WMF is getting ethical gold stars by putting a Climate
> Change banner over the entirety of its website landing page, it is
> reasonable to expect that the organization starts by changing itself
> and turn the non-committal statements in the WMF presentation from "we
> will consider" and "we will seek" in to a meaningful and measurable
> "we will act".
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
>
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 17:58, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Because # of flights is not a useful metric for assessing environmental
> > impact.
> >
> > Seddon
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 3:23 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Those publications are where my numbers came from. There is no useful
> > > transparency to explain how many actual flights are taken, why or by
> whom.
> > >
> > > Fae
> > >
> > > On Fri, 20 Sep 2019, 15:17 Lucas Werkmeister, <
> [hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Did you see the sustainability report that was published yesterday
> [1]
> > > > [2]? Page 30 of the PDF has some numbers on business travel by air –
> > > > some 5.6 million km in total, by the looks of it. Page 32 also shows
> > > > that the carbon footprint of air travel is about half that of the
> > > > electricity used by the Foundation’s data centers.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Lucas
> > > >
> > > > [1]:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2019/09/19/how-the-wikimedia-foundation-is-making-efforts-to-go-green
> > > > [2]:
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimedia_Foundation_Sustainability_Assessment_and_Carbon_Footprint.pdf
> > > >
> > > > On 20.09.19 15:23, Fæ wrote:
> > > > > Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner
> linking
> > > > > to the global climate strike today.
> > > > >
> > > > > Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> > > > > significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights
> the
> > > > > WMF uses?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures
> for
> > > > > how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> > > > > Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was
> part
> > > > > of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200
> days
> > > > > of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers
> for
> > > > > CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> > > > > often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical
> company
> > > > > when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> > > > > change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> > > > > the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can
> see
> > > > > whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of
> > > urgency.
> > > > >
> > > > > Links:
> > > > > 1.
> > > >
> > >
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
> > > > >
> > > > > Fae
> > > > >
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Pine W
In reply to this post by Fæ
I have a few comments.

While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put a
government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of
climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
somewhat strange.

I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events
more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for trying
to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
<https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html>
on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that
measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts
from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental impacts
from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale
and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
eliminate travel and conferences entirely.

I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing
what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar
questions with a tone that is calmer.

On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and is
inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public
service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably
consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past few
months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If WMF
wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it
should act like one.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Robert Fernandez
I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using
community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth
time.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

metasj
On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using
> community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth
> time.
>

I laughed out loud.

AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical
thoughts.

a) Reach out to Stripe
<https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which has a
through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long Now,
to coordinate efforts.
b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by
  b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
  b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Dennis During
In reply to this post by Pine W
I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission.
Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers
to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their monopoly
power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of
volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity
with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have a few comments.
>
> While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put a
> government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of
> climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
> somewhat strange.
>
> I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
> However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events
> more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for trying
> to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
> mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> <
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> >
> on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that
> measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts
> from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental impacts
> from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale
> and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
> eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
>
> I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing
> what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
> excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar
> questions with a tone that is calmer.
>
> On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
> time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and is
> inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
> want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
> infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public
> service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
> information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably
> consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past few
> months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If WMF
> wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it
> should act like one.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Jan Ainali-3
Have thousands of volunteers really been involved assembling
https://wikimediafoundation.org?

/Jan Ainali


On Sat, Sep 21, 2019, 02:45 Dennis During <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission.
> Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers
> to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their monopoly
> power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of
> volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity
> with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I have a few comments.
> >
> > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put
> a
> > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of
> > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
> > somewhat strange.
> >
> > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
> > However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events
> > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
> trying
> > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
> > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > <
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > >
> > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that
> > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts
> > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
> impacts
> > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale
> > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
> > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> >
> > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing
> > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
> > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar
> > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> >
> > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
> > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and
> is
> > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
> > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
> > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public
> > service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
> > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably
> > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
> few
> > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
> WMF
> > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it
> > should act like one.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Todd Allen
In reply to this post by Dennis During
As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike
message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with.

If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement,
well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki
itself, I don't see the issue.

Todd

On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission.
> Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers
> to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their monopoly
> power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of
> volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity
> with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I have a few comments.
> >
> > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have put
> a
> > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion of
> > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
> > somewhat strange.
> >
> > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
> > However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia events
> > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
> trying
> > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
> > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > <
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > >
> > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think that
> > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental impacts
> > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
> impacts
> > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to morale
> > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
> > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> >
> > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is practicing
> > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
> > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very similar
> > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> >
> > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
> > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird and
> is
> > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
> > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
> > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides public
> > service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
> > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is regrettably
> > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
> few
> > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
> WMF
> > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that it
> > should act like one.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Henry Wood
In reply to this post by Adrian Raddatz
Surely it doesn't really matter who within the organisation is racking
up the CO2?  More important is the fact that the Foundation
acknowleges itself responsible for about 2,000 tonnes of CO2 emission.
At an offset price around $100/tonne, presumably we may expect that as
an interim measure, WMF will purchase $200K worth of offsets -- an
eminently affordable sum on its current budget.

Henry

On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:28, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does not
> make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope
> that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so
> executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather than
> a useful one.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
> > to the global climate strike today.
> >
> > Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> > significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
> > WMF uses?
> >
> > I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
> > how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> > Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
> > of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
> > of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
> > CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> > often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
> > when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> > change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> > the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
> > whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
> >
> > Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of urgency.
> >
> > Links:
> > 1.
> > https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
> >
> > Fae
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Dennis During
In reply to this post by Todd Allen
I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the MW
participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong conclusion.
Sorry.

I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not disrupted.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike
> message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with.
>
> If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement,
> well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki
> itself, I don't see the issue.
>
> Todd
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission.
> > Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers
> > to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their monopoly
> > power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of
> > volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity
> > with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > I have a few comments.
> > >
> > > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have
> put
> > a
> > > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion
> of
> > > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
> > > somewhat strange.
> > >
> > > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
> > > However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia
> events
> > > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
> > trying
> > > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
> > > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > > <
> > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > > >
> > > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think
> that
> > > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental
> impacts
> > > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
> > impacts
> > > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to
> morale
> > > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
> > > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> > >
> > > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
> practicing
> > > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
> > > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very
> similar
> > > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> > >
> > > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
> > > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird
> and
> > is
> > > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
> > > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
> > > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides
> public
> > > service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
> > > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
> regrettably
> > > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
> > few
> > > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
> > WMF
> > > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that
> it
> > > should act like one.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Alexander N Krassotkin
Hi,

  Does anyone have a screenshot of the page with this banner? Or a
link to an online archive? Or at least the banner itself?

sasha.

On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:54 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the MW
> participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong conclusion.
> Sorry.
>
> I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not disrupted.
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike
> > message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with.
> >
> > If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement,
> > well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki
> > itself, I don't see the issue.
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission.
> > > Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers
> > > to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their monopoly
> > > power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of
> > > volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity
> > > with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have a few comments.
> > > >
> > > > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > > > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have
> > put
> > > a
> > > > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion
> > of
> > > > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
> > > > somewhat strange.
> > > >
> > > > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
> > > > However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia
> > events
> > > > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
> > > trying
> > > > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
> > > > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > > > <
> > > >
> > >
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > > > >
> > > > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think
> > that
> > > > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental
> > impacts
> > > > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
> > > impacts
> > > > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to
> > morale
> > > > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
> > > > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> > > >
> > > > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
> > practicing
> > > > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
> > > > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very
> > similar
> > > > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> > > >
> > > > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
> > > > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird
> > and
> > > is
> > > > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
> > > > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
> > > > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides
> > public
> > > > service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
> > > > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
> > regrettably
> > > > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
> > > few
> > > > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
> > > WMF
> > > > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that
> > it
> > > > should act like one.
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Dennis C. During
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Fæ
A screenshot has been uploaded to
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_global_climate_strike_banner_2019.png.

Unfortunately, though web.archive.org has snapshots of the website,
these do not appear to render the banner as it displayed in a browser
on the day.

Fae
--
[hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae

On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 at 09:30, Alexander N Krassotkin
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
>   Does anyone have a screenshot of the page with this banner? Or a
> link to an online archive? Or at least the banner itself?
>
> sasha.
>
> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:54 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the MW
> > participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong conclusion.
> > Sorry.
> >
> > I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not disrupted.
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike
> > > message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they like with.
> > >
> > > If they started doing that to any other wikis without their agreement,
> > > well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki
> > > itself, I don't see the issue.
> > >
> > > Todd
> > >
> > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the mission.
> > > > Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and volunteers
> > > > to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their monopoly
> > > > power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many thousands of
> > > > volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show solidarity
> > > > with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I have a few comments.
> > > > >
> > > > > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > > > > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't have
> > > put
> > > > a
> > > > > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some discussion
> > > of
> > > > > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here is
> > > > > somewhat strange.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is fine.
> > > > > However, I would also include questions about travel for Wikimedia
> > > events
> > > > > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support for
> > > > trying
> > > > > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As has been
> > > > > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > > > > <
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I think
> > > that
> > > > > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental
> > > impacts
> > > > > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative environmental
> > > > impacts
> > > > > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits to
> > > morale
> > > > > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be reluctant to
> > > > > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
> > > practicing
> > > > > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this thread is
> > > > > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very
> > > similar
> > > > > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> > > > >
> > > > > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern at this
> > > > > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat weird
> > > and
> > > > is
> > > > > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential infrastructure". Do we
> > > > > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly when that
> > > > > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that provides
> > > public
> > > > > service and supports the community in publishing reliable scientific
> > > > > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
> > > regrettably
> > > > > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in the past
> > > > few
> > > > > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of this. If
> > > > WMF
> > > > > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I think that
> > > it
> > > > > should act like one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pine
> > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Dennis C. During

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Dennis During
Does anyone know whether the screen allowed a user to click through?

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 1:25 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> A screenshot has been uploaded to
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_global_climate_strike_banner_2019.png
> .
>
> Unfortunately, though web.archive.org has snapshots of the website,
> these do not appear to render the banner as it displayed in a browser
> on the day.
>
> Fae
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
>
> On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 at 09:30, Alexander N Krassotkin
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >   Does anyone have a screenshot of the page with this banner? Or a
> > link to an online archive? Or at least the banner itself?
> >
> > sasha.
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:54 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the
> MW
> > > participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong
> conclusion.
> > > Sorry.
> > >
> > > I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not
> disrupted.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the strike
> > > > message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they
> like with.
> > > >
> > > > If they started doing that to any other wikis without their
> agreement,
> > > > well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF wiki
> > > > itself, I don't see the issue.
> > > >
> > > > Todd
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the
> mission.
> > > > > Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and
> volunteers
> > > > > to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their
> monopoly
> > > > > power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many
> thousands of
> > > > > volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show
> solidarity
> > > > > with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I have a few comments.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > > > > > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't
> have
> > > > put
> > > > > a
> > > > > > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some
> discussion
> > > > of
> > > > > > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action here
> is
> > > > > > somewhat strange.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is
> fine.
> > > > > > However, I would also include questions about travel for
> Wikimedia
> > > > events
> > > > > > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated support
> for
> > > > > trying
> > > > > > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As
> has been
> > > > > > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > > > > > <
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I
> think
> > > > that
> > > > > > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative environmental
> > > > impacts
> > > > > > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative
> environmental
> > > > > impacts
> > > > > > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits
> to
> > > > morale
> > > > > > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be
> reluctant to
> > > > > > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
> > > > practicing
> > > > > > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this
> thread is
> > > > > > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask very
> > > > similar
> > > > > > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern
> at this
> > > > > > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat
> weird
> > > > and
> > > > > is
> > > > > > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential
> infrastructure". Do we
> > > > > > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly
> when that
> > > > > > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that
> provides
> > > > public
> > > > > > service and supports the community in publishing reliable
> scientific
> > > > > > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
> > > > regrettably
> > > > > > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in
> the past
> > > > > few
> > > > > > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of
> this. If
> > > > > WMF
> > > > > > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I
> think that
> > > > it
> > > > > > should act like one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dennis C. During
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Dennis C. During
_______________________________________________
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