[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Todd Allen
When I visited it, yes, the message could be dismissed.

Todd

On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 4:53 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does anyone know whether the screen allowed a user to click through?
>
> On Sun, Sep 22, 2019 at 1:25 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > A screenshot has been uploaded to
> >
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:WMF_global_climate_strike_banner_2019.png
> > .
> >
> > Unfortunately, though web.archive.org has snapshots of the website,
> > these do not appear to render the banner as it displayed in a browser
> > on the day.
> >
> > Fae
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> >
> > On Sun, 22 Sep 2019 at 09:30, Alexander N Krassotkin
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > >   Does anyone have a screenshot of the page with this banner? Or a
> > > link to an online archive? Or at least the banner itself?
> > >
> > > sasha.
> > >
> > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 9:54 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I couldn't get onto WP or en.wikt shortly after I had heard about the
> > MW
> > > > participation in the strike. I jumped to an apparently wrong
> > conclusion.
> > > > Sorry.
> > > >
> > > > I am glad that the availability of free knowledge for all was not
> > disrupted.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 3:19 AM Todd Allen <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > As far as I can tell, only the Foundation wiki is showing the
> strike
> > > > > message. That particular one is pretty much theirs to do as they
> > like with.
> > > > >
> > > > > If they started doing that to any other wikis without their
> > agreement,
> > > > > well, then we'd have a problem. But so long as it's only the WMF
> wiki
> > > > > itself, I don't see the issue.
> > > > >
> > > > > Todd
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 6:45 PM Dennis During <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am profoundly disappointed that WMF employees don't value the
> > mission.
> > > > > > Instead they seem to simply follow fashion and force users and
> > volunteers
> > > > > > to follow their fashionable methods of advocacy.  They use their
> > monopoly
> > > > > > power to deny free access to the world's knowledge that many
> > thousands of
> > > > > > volunteers have diligently assembled. This time it is to show
> > solidarity
> > > > > > with environmental advocates. What will it be next time?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019, 15:35 Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have a few comments.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > While I appreciate the sentiment, I wouldn't have put the
> > > > > > > wikimediafoundation.org domain "on strike", just as I wouldn't
> > have
> > > > > put
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > government agency's website "on strike". I think that some
> > discussion
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > climate change would be fine, but I think that WMF's action
> here
> > is
> > > > > > > somewhat strange.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think that asking about the climate impact of staff travel is
> > fine.
> > > > > > > However, I would also include questions about travel for
> > Wikimedia
> > > > > events
> > > > > > > more broadly. I believe that the WMF Board has indicated
> support
> > for
> > > > > > trying
> > > > > > > to reduce the Wikiverse's contributions to climate change. As
> > has been
> > > > > > > mentioned in this thread, WMF released a report yesterday
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2019-September/093519.html
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > on the subject of sustainability. While I have not read it, I
> > think
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > measuring and attempting to reduce reduce negative
> environmental
> > > > > impacts
> > > > > > > from Wikimedia activities is good, including negative
> > environmental
> > > > > > impacts
> > > > > > > from travel. However, I also think that there are some benefits
> > to
> > > > > morale
> > > > > > > and communications from in person meetings, so I would be
> > reluctant to
> > > > > > > eliminate travel and conferences entirely.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think that it's fine to ask whether WMF senior management is
> > > > > practicing
> > > > > > > what they preach. However, Fae, I feel that your tone in this
> > thread is
> > > > > > > excessively harsh on this point. I think that you could ask
> very
> > > > > similar
> > > > > > > questions with a tone that is calmer.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On the subject of environmental sustainability, my main concern
> > at this
> > > > > > > time is the banner on the WMF website which I feel is somewhat
> > weird
> > > > > and
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > inconsistent with WMF's goal of being "essential
> > infrastructure". Do we
> > > > > > > want "essential infrastructure" to go on strike, particularly
> > when that
> > > > > > > infrastructure is supposed to be for an organization that
> > provides
> > > > > public
> > > > > > > service and supports the community in publishing reliable
> > scientific
> > > > > > > information? I think not. However, I think that the banner is
> > > > > regrettably
> > > > > > > consistent with the series of surprising decisions from WMF in
> > the past
> > > > > > few
> > > > > > > months. That is, to me, the most concerning element in all of
> > this. If
> > > > > > WMF
> > > > > > > wants to be a public service infrastructure provider then I
> > think that
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > should act like one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Dennis C. During
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> Dennis C. During
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Ilario Valdelli
In reply to this post by metasj
Anyways this is perceived by the community.

In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
would not do long trips.

IMHO the problem is these big events.

For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon
than to Wikimania.

This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.

Kind regards

On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using
> > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth
> > time.
> >
>
> I laughed out loud.
>
> AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical
> thoughts.
>
> a) Reach out to Stripe
> <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which has a
> through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long Now,
> to coordinate efforts.
> b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by
>   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
>   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
> prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Gabriel Thullen
I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
presentation).

I think that you need to clarify you statement:
"In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
would not do long trips."

When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
"Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover
transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions of
eligibility on this page
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships>."

Best regards
Gabe


On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Anyways this is perceived by the community.
>
> In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
> would not do long trips.
>
> IMHO the problem is these big events.
>
> For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon
> than to Wikimania.
>
> This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
>
> Kind regards
>
> On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <[hidden email]
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using
> > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a billionth
> > > time.
> > >
> >
> > I laughed out loud.
> >
> > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical
> > thoughts.
> >
> > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which has a
> > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long
> Now,
> > to coordinate efforts.
> > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by
> >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
> > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Fæ
In reply to this post by Ilario Valdelli
We used to regularly raise the issue of a lack of active
videoconferencing at Wikimania. Though we (Wikimedians) are highly
technically literate, we still do not host virtual attendees, such as
3D virtual conferencing and claim it a win if we release video streams
of some of the presentations.

Both to reduce our community's carbon footprint, and to encourage
access for those that find air travel challenging or impossible, it
would be great to see the Wikimedia Foundation being active in
trialing and funding virtual environments for our events. 25 years ago
I worked for a global bank and had regular virtual meetings in a video
room where you physically sat at a conference table where the other
half telemagically was in other headquarters in other cities with
shared (physical) whiteboards to help workshopping. These days it's
relatively easy to videoconference, but we should do more to
experiment with whether booking video suites in different cities might
also be a good way of encouraging Wikimedians to default to local
travel and still be active in our multi-national or global events and
workshops. At the end of the day, paying a few hundred dollars for
several conference suites or higher end conference kit hire hosted by
local Wikimedia Chapters, is a fraction the cost of paying for a far
smaller number of lucky applicants to get their flights and
accommodation paid for.

This type of high quality conferencing initiative would perfectly fit
the non-specific high level aims mentioned in the WMF sustainability
documents. It's weird to me that this is still a debate, and folks are
defending continued air travel at the current consumption levels,
rather than even trialling all the virtual alternatives.

Fae

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:14, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Anyways this is perceived by the community.
>
> In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
> would not do long trips.
>
> IMHO the problem is these big events.
>
> For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon
> than to Wikimania.
>
> This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
>
> Kind regards

_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Ilario Valdelli
In reply to this post by Gabriel Thullen
Yes

We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we
receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.

It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and
not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we
ask the reason the answer is the climate change.

Kind regards

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
> presentation).
>
> I think that you need to clarify you statement:
> "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
> would not do long trips."
>
> When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
> "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover
> transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
> registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions of
> eligibility on this page
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships>."
>
> Best regards
> Gabe
>
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> >
> > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
> > would not do long trips.
> >
> > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> >
> > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon
> > than to Wikimania.
> >
> > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
> [hidden email]
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not using
> > > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
> billionth
> > > > time.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I laughed out loud.
> > >
> > > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical
> > > thoughts.
> > >
> > > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which has
> a
> > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the Long
> > Now,
> > > to coordinate efforts.
> > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated by
> > >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> > >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
> > > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Rebecca O'Neill
Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is
not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians
face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may
never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value
in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for
both.

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes
>
> We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we
> receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
>
> It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and
> not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we
> ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
>
> Kind regards
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
> > presentation).
> >
> > I think that you need to clarify you statement:
> > "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
> > would not do long trips."
> >
> > When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
> > "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover
> > transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
> > registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions
> of
> > eligibility on this page
> > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships>."
> >
> > Best regards
> > Gabe
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> > >
> > > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> people
> > > would not do long trips.
> > >
> > > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> > >
> > > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
> wikicon
> > > than to Wikimania.
> > >
> > > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
> > [hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
> using
> > > > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
> > billionth
> > > > > time.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I laughed out loud.
> > > >
> > > > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical
> > > > thoughts.
> > > >
> > > > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > > > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which
> has
> > a
> > > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
> Long
> > > Now,
> > > > to coordinate efforts.
> > > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated
> by
> > > >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> > > >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
> > > > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Yaroslav Blanter
In reply to this post by Fæ
This probably goes too far of this thread, but judging from another thread
where attendance complain that no C-level WMF executive attended the French
language conference, people expect from Wikimania not so much the talks
(which I guess by now are available online anyway), but a chance of meeting
some people and discussing issues which can not be discussed online - this
is what Dutch call "wandelgangcultuur". In this sense, the live attendance
is not at all the same as the online attendance.

Cheers
Yaroslav

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:36 PM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:

> We used to regularly raise the issue of a lack of active
> videoconferencing at Wikimania. Though we (Wikimedians) are highly
> technically literate, we still do not host virtual attendees, such as
> 3D virtual conferencing and claim it a win if we release video streams
> of some of the presentations.
>
> Both to reduce our community's carbon footprint, and to encourage
> access for those that find air travel challenging or impossible, it
> would be great to see the Wikimedia Foundation being active in
> trialing and funding virtual environments for our events. 25 years ago
> I worked for a global bank and had regular virtual meetings in a video
> room where you physically sat at a conference table where the other
> half telemagically was in other headquarters in other cities with
> shared (physical) whiteboards to help workshopping. These days it's
> relatively easy to videoconference, but we should do more to
> experiment with whether booking video suites in different cities might
> also be a good way of encouraging Wikimedians to default to local
> travel and still be active in our multi-national or global events and
> workshops. At the end of the day, paying a few hundred dollars for
> several conference suites or higher end conference kit hire hosted by
> local Wikimedia Chapters, is a fraction the cost of paying for a far
> smaller number of lucky applicants to get their flights and
> accommodation paid for.
>
> This type of high quality conferencing initiative would perfectly fit
> the non-specific high level aims mentioned in the WMF sustainability
> documents. It's weird to me that this is still a debate, and folks are
> defending continued air travel at the current consumption levels,
> rather than even trialling all the virtual alternatives.
>
> Fae
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:14, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> >
> > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
> > would not do long trips.
> >
> > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> >
> > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional wikicon
> > than to Wikimania.
> >
> > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
> >
> > Kind regards
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Ilario Valdelli
In reply to this post by Rebecca O'Neill
I don't know but if the option is to pay 500 long travels for scholarships
by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels for the staff of
WMF to attend several regional conferences,  the answer will be in favor of
the second option which is more sustainable and more efficient.

I have seen more interest for regional events where people can speak their
mother tongue and are lesser impactful for the environment than for big
events.

After i can say that in Wikimania we dont see really the Wikipedia
communities. We see the peak of the iceberg and this peak is not necessarly
representative.

Kind regards

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:57 Rebecca O'Neill, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is
> not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians
> face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may
> never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value
> in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for
> both.
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Yes
> >
> > We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon
> we
> > receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
> >
> > It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train
> and
> > not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when
> we
> > ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
> > > presentation).
> > >
> > > I think that you need to clarify you statement:
> > > "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> people
> > > would not do long trips."
> > >
> > > When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
> > > "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover
> > > transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
> > > registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult
> conditions
> > of
> > > eligibility on this page
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships>."
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > Gabe
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> > > >
> > > > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> > people
> > > > would not do long trips.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> > > >
> > > > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
> > wikicon
> > > > than to Wikimania.
> > > >
> > > > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
> > > [hidden email]
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
> > using
> > > > > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
> > > billionth
> > > > > > time.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I laughed out loud.
> > > > >
> > > > > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some
> practical
> > > > > thoughts.
> > > > >
> > > > > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > > > > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which
> > has
> > > a
> > > > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
> > Long
> > > > Now,
> > > > > to coordinate efforts.
> > > > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated
> > by
> > > > >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> > > > >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
> > > > > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> PhD in Digital Media
> Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland <http://wikimedia.ie>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Fæ
In reply to this post by Rebecca O'Neill
Imagine a world where instead of going through security for 2 or 3
hours, flying for 4 hours and travelling by train and bus to get to
and from airports in order to enjoy a physical meeting with fellow
Wikimedians, you simply got a bus or train and travelled for an hour
to a fun meeting place where you met several fellow Wikimedians in
your country, and together spend the day playing around with immersive
conferencing to workshop, discuss and learn from fellow Wikimedians in
other countries. All this and still get home to spend the night in
your own bed, feed your cat, or meet your kids coming back from
school.

That's "making time and space for both" while taking real measurable
action for climate change by reducing our entirely avoidable numbers
of international flights.

The truth is, that despite discussing this since Wikimania events
started, and in that time technology making doing this is almost as
simple as an Affiliate hiring headsets for mobile phones, we have
never even trialled decent immersive virtual conferencing spaces for
productive conferencing.

Fae

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:57, Rebecca O'Neill <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is
> not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians
> face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may
> never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value
> in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for
> both.
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Yes
> >
> > We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we
> > receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
> >
> > It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and
> > not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we
> > ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
> >
> > Kind regards
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
> > > presentation).
> > >
> > > I think that you need to clarify you statement:
> > > "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
> > > would not do long trips."
> > >
> > > When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
> > > "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover
> > > transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
> > > registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions
> > of
> > > eligibility on this page
> > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships>."
> > >
> > > Best regards
> > > Gabe
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> > > >
> > > > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> > people
> > > > would not do long trips.
> > > >
> > > > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> > > >
> > > > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
> > wikicon
> > > > than to Wikimania.
> > > >
> > > > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
> > > [hidden email]
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
> > using
> > > > > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
> > > billionth
> > > > > > time.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I laughed out loud.
> > > > >
> > > > > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical
> > > > > thoughts.
> > > > >
> > > > > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > > > > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which
> > has
> > > a
> > > > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
> > Long
> > > > Now,
> > > > > to coordinate efforts.
> > > > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated
> > by
> > > > >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> > > > >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
> > > > > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
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> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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>
>
>
> --
> PhD in Digital Media
> Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland <http://wikimedia.ie>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Anders Wennersten-2
In reply to this post by Rebecca O'Neill
For work groups experience tells a first meting IRL to get to know each
other is necessary, but after that video conference works well.

For big events, why not have groups (40-50 persons) get together on
local level with excellent on-line facilities (wide screens etc) that
connects to all other sites.

and where is this discussed in the strategy? Are we missing something
that will be critical for our volunteers in 2030

Anders

Den 2019-09-23 kl. 13:52, skrev Rebecca O'Neill:

> Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events is
> not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow Wikimedians
> face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may
> never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is value
> in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space for
> both.
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Yes
>>
>> We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional Wikicon we
>> receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
>>
>> It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by train and
>> not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and when we
>> ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
>>> presentation).
>>>
>>> I think that you need to clarify you statement:
>>> "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because people
>>> would not do long trips."
>>>
>>> When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
>>> "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover
>>> transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
>>> registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult conditions
>> of
>>> eligibility on this page
>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships>."
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>> Gabe
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Anyways this is perceived by the community.
>>>>
>>>> In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
>> people
>>>> would not do long trips.
>>>>
>>>> IMHO the problem is these big events.
>>>>
>>>> For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
>> wikicon
>>>> than to Wikimania.
>>>>
>>>> This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
>> using
>>>>>> community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
>>> billionth
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I laughed out loud.
>>>>>
>>>>> AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some practical
>>>>> thoughts.
>>>>>
>>>>> a) Reach out to Stripe
>>>>> <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>, which
>> has
>>> a
>>>>> through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
>> Long
>>>> Now,
>>>>> to coordinate efforts.
>>>>> b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is dominated
>> by
>>>>>    b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
>>>>>    b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation, and
>>>>> prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>>> Unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Paulo Santos Perneta
In reply to this post by Fæ
Hello,

I totally support Illario words: "if the option is to pay 500 long travels
for scholarships by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels
for the staff of WMF to attend several regional conferences,  the answer
will be in favor of the second option which is more sustainable and more
efficient." and what Fae and others have been saying all along. It makes
much more sense to restrict global meetings and events to the minimum
essential, and support instead regional events, which are way more cheaper,
democratic, sustainable (in all ways) and have a much less significant
carbon footprint. By inviting Wikimedians from nearby countries, WMF staff
and very selected international scholarships we can still be able to
provide great "flesh-and-bones" interaction, and can eventually coordinate
with other groups of Wikimedians from any part of the world through
videoconferencing. In this last Wikimania in Stockholm, I was actually able
to successfully participate remotely in a panel there, along with 2 other
remote fellows (me in Madeira Island, one in Israel and another in Mexico):
https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Education/Education_%26_Libraries:_Opportunities_Explored

Of course, presential attendance and interaction is still crucial, as we
(generally) are not hermits editing from caves, and it has a fundamental
effect in local community capacity and structure building, but that can be
done at a regional (rather than national, as travel costs and footprint do
not  respect national boundaries) level.
For those reasons, I believe there should be a strong strategic focus on
funding regional conferences in the Wikimedia Movement, and was somewhat
disappointed when the organizing teams at Wikimania 2019 and the last Wiki
Education conference at the Basque country apparently had not also focused
on this regional approach (if it existed, it either was not explicit, or I
couldn't find it), with a weighting factor on scholarships related to the
proximity/vicinity of attendants.

I agree that it is very cool to be immersed in a sea of diversity and
cultural interchange at Wikimedia events, with people coming from all parts
of the world, but that is not sustainable, and as has been mentioned, that
group of attendants is not necessarily representative of the active
Wikimedian communities. More regional events, building up a strong regional
Wikimedia structure, and limiting global events to the very essential, is
the way to go IMO.

Best,
Paulo

Fæ <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 23/09/2019 à(s) 13:10:

> Imagine a world where instead of going through security for 2 or 3
> hours, flying for 4 hours and travelling by train and bus to get to
> and from airports in order to enjoy a physical meeting with fellow
> Wikimedians, you simply got a bus or train and travelled for an hour
> to a fun meeting place where you met several fellow Wikimedians in
> your country, and together spend the day playing around with immersive
> conferencing to workshop, discuss and learn from fellow Wikimedians in
> other countries. All this and still get home to spend the night in
> your own bed, feed your cat, or meet your kids coming back from
> school.
>
> That's "making time and space for both" while taking real measurable
> action for climate change by reducing our entirely avoidable numbers
> of international flights.
>
> The truth is, that despite discussing this since Wikimania events
> started, and in that time technology making doing this is almost as
> simple as an Affiliate hiring headsets for mobile phones, we have
> never even trialled decent immersive virtual conferencing spaces for
> productive conferencing.
>
> Fae
>
> On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:57, Rebecca O'Neill <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events
> is
> > not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow
> Wikimedians
> > face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may
> > never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is
> value
> > in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space
> for
> > both.
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes
> > >
> > > We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional
> Wikicon we
> > > receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
> > >
> > > It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by
> train and
> > > not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and
> when we
> > > ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
> > >
> > > Kind regards
> > >
> > > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
> > > > presentation).
> > > >
> > > > I think that you need to clarify you statement:
> > > > "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> people
> > > > would not do long trips."
> > > >
> > > > When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
> > > > "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They cover
> > > > transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
> > > > registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult
> conditions
> > > of
> > > > eligibility on this page
> > > > <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships
> >."
> > > >
> > > > Best regards
> > > > Gabe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> > > > >
> > > > > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> > > people
> > > > > would not do long trips.
> > > > >
> > > > > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> > > > >
> > > > > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
> > > wikicon
> > > > > than to Wikimania.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at Wikimania.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by not
> > > using
> > > > > > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
> > > > billionth
> > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I laughed out loud.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some
> practical
> > > > > > thoughts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > > > > > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>,
> which
> > > has
> > > > a
> > > > > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and the
> > > Long
> > > > > Now,
> > > > > > to coordinate efforts.
> > > > > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is
> dominated
> > > by
> > > > > >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> > > > > >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation,
> and
> > > > > > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > PhD in Digital Media
> > Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland <http://wikimedia.ie>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Gabriel Thullen
Maybe we can (as a movement) can invest more of our resources in the
development of video conferencing and filming the presentations. Most
volunteers are simple users, the are not necessarily computer techs, which
means that we need to develop a "plug-and-play" method of participating.
That been said, I am much more in favor of reducing the number of
chapter-level staff and EDs who participate in Wikimania conferences
(whereas the attendance of top-level WMF staff should be expected). The
different Wikimedia projects are volunteer based projects, and the annual
(or bi-annual) Wikimania conferences should be world-wide get-togethers of
Wikimedia volunteers.

Staff is staff. When we send our employees around the World for these
different conferences, we are not being very efficient. It would be far
better to have them video-conference instead of spending hours or days in
transport time, as well as food and lodging. Volunteers usually go on their
vacation time.

The Wikimedia movement as a whole really needs to get some expertise when
it comes to videoconferencing using open source solutions (as opposed to
proprietary software solutions). A good place to start would be with the
staff since we can choose what type of software we want, and our employees
will then learn to use it. It will then be a lot easier for the volunteers
to do the same.

Best regards
Gabe

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 2:49 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I totally support Illario words: "if the option is to pay 500 long travels
> for scholarships by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels
> for the staff of WMF to attend several regional conferences,  the answer
> will be in favor of the second option which is more sustainable and more
> efficient." and what Fae and others have been saying all along. It makes
> much more sense to restrict global meetings and events to the minimum
> essential, and support instead regional events, which are way more cheaper,
> democratic, sustainable (in all ways) and have a much less significant
> carbon footprint. By inviting Wikimedians from nearby countries, WMF staff
> and very selected international scholarships we can still be able to
> provide great "flesh-and-bones" interaction, and can eventually coordinate
> with other groups of Wikimedians from any part of the world through
> videoconferencing. In this last Wikimania in Stockholm, I was actually able
> to successfully participate remotely in a panel there, along with 2 other
> remote fellows (me in Madeira Island, one in Israel and another in Mexico):
>
> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Education/Education_%26_Libraries:_Opportunities_Explored
>
> Of course, presential attendance and interaction is still crucial, as we
> (generally) are not hermits editing from caves, and it has a fundamental
> effect in local community capacity and structure building, but that can be
> done at a regional (rather than national, as travel costs and footprint do
> not  respect national boundaries) level.
> For those reasons, I believe there should be a strong strategic focus on
> funding regional conferences in the Wikimedia Movement, and was somewhat
> disappointed when the organizing teams at Wikimania 2019 and the last Wiki
> Education conference at the Basque country apparently had not also focused
> on this regional approach (if it existed, it either was not explicit, or I
> couldn't find it), with a weighting factor on scholarships related to the
> proximity/vicinity of attendants.
>
> I agree that it is very cool to be immersed in a sea of diversity and
> cultural interchange at Wikimedia events, with people coming from all parts
> of the world, but that is not sustainable, and as has been mentioned, that
> group of attendants is not necessarily representative of the active
> Wikimedian communities. More regional events, building up a strong regional
> Wikimedia structure, and limiting global events to the very essential, is
> the way to go IMO.
>
> Best,
> Paulo
>
> Fæ <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 23/09/2019 à(s) 13:10:
>
> > Imagine a world where instead of going through security for 2 or 3
> > hours, flying for 4 hours and travelling by train and bus to get to
> > and from airports in order to enjoy a physical meeting with fellow
> > Wikimedians, you simply got a bus or train and travelled for an hour
> > to a fun meeting place where you met several fellow Wikimedians in
> > your country, and together spend the day playing around with immersive
> > conferencing to workshop, discuss and learn from fellow Wikimedians in
> > other countries. All this and still get home to spend the night in
> > your own bed, feed your cat, or meet your kids coming back from
> > school.
> >
> > That's "making time and space for both" while taking real measurable
> > action for climate change by reducing our entirely avoidable numbers
> > of international flights.
> >
> > The truth is, that despite discussing this since Wikimania events
> > started, and in that time technology making doing this is almost as
> > simple as an Affiliate hiring headsets for mobile phones, we have
> > never even trialled decent immersive virtual conferencing spaces for
> > productive conferencing.
> >
> > Fae
> >
> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:57, Rebecca O'Neill <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these events
> > is
> > > not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow
> > Wikimedians
> > > face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that may
> > > never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is
> > value
> > > in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and space
> > for
> > > both.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Yes
> > > >
> > > > We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional
> > Wikicon we
> > > > receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
> > > >
> > > > It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by
> > train and
> > > > not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and
> > when we
> > > > ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
> > > >
> > > > Kind regards
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
> > > > > presentation).
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that you need to clarify you statement:
> > > > > "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> > people
> > > > > would not do long trips."
> > > > >
> > > > > When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
> > > > > "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They
> cover
> > > > > transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th, and
> > > > > registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult
> > conditions
> > > > of
> > > > > eligibility on this page
> > > > > <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships
> > >."
> > > > >
> > > > > Best regards
> > > > > Gabe
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <
> [hidden email]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania because
> > > > people
> > > > > > would not do long trips.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for regional
> > > > wikicon
> > > > > > than to Wikimania.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at
> Wikimania.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Kind regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by
> not
> > > > using
> > > > > > > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse for a
> > > > > billionth
> > > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I laughed out loud.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some
> > practical
> > > > > > > thoughts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > > > > > > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>,
> > which
> > > > has
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and
> the
> > > > Long
> > > > > > Now,
> > > > > > > to coordinate efforts.
> > > > > > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is
> > dominated
> > > > by
> > > > > > >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> > > > > > >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate imformation,
> > and
> > > > > > > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > PhD in Digital Media
> > > Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland <http://wikimedia.ie>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Bence Damokos
In reply to this post by Henry Wood
In fact, there are countless offset projects in the $1-$15/tonne range, as
well: https://offset.climateneutralnow.org/allprojects

The total offsetting budget would not need to be too enourmous, yet it
could be impactful.

Best regards,
Bence

On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 18:28 Henry Wood, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Surely it doesn't really matter who within the organisation is racking
> up the CO2?  More important is the fact that the Foundation
> acknowleges itself responsible for about 2,000 tonnes of CO2 emission.
> At an offset price around $100/tonne, presumably we may expect that as
> an interim measure, WMF will purchase $200K worth of offsets -- an
> eminently affordable sum on its current budget.
>
> Henry
>
> On Fri, 20 Sep 2019 at 14:28, Adrian Raddatz <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I'm more interested in the numbers for the WMF as a whole. One CEO does
> not
> > make an emissions problem, and in a global-reaching organization I'd hope
> > that the CEO would be flying around a bit. Focusing on the ten or so
> > executives at the Foundation seems like a sensational approach rather
> than
> > a useful one.
> >
> > Adrian
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 9:24 AM Fæ <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Nice to see that https://wikimediafoundation.org has a banner linking
> > > to the global climate strike today.
> > >
> > > Can anyone produce some verifiable metrics that the WMF has taken
> > > significant action to reduce the total number of aircraft flights the
> > > WMF uses?
> > >
> > > I am asking as though there are no transparently published figures for
> > > how much the WMF spends on air travel, I recall that the Katherine
> > > Mahler was interviewed by the Wall Street Journal, where is was part
> > > of her impressive executive profile to be "on the road" for 200 days
> > > of the year. This probably puts Katherine in the very top numbers for
> > > CEOs with damaging carbon footprints resulting from travelling so
> > > often by flying.[1] If the WMF wants to be seen as an ethical company
> > > when it comes to reducing their organizational impact on climate
> > > change, perhaps this could start with publishing travel figures for
> > > the CEO and the rest of the management team, so that everyone can see
> > > whether there is year on year improvement, or none.
> > >
> > > Thanks again for the banner, it does help increase the sense of
> urgency.
> > >
> > > Links:
> > > 1.
> > >
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-35-year-old-executive-director-of-wikimedia-travels-1529588701
> > >
> > > Fae
> > > --
> > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

metasj
In reply to this post by Gabriel Thullen
I would love to try doing this for the upcoming North American
Wikiconference.
What are examples of events you've participated in that did this well?

SJ

On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 10:15 AM Gabriel Thullen <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Maybe we can (as a movement) can invest more of our resources in the
> development of video conferencing and filming the presentations. Most
> volunteers are simple users, the are not necessarily computer techs, which
> means that we need to develop a "plug-and-play" method of participating.
> That been said, I am much more in favor of reducing the number of
> chapter-level staff and EDs who participate in Wikimania conferences
> (whereas the attendance of top-level WMF staff should be expected). The
> different Wikimedia projects are volunteer based projects, and the annual
> (or bi-annual) Wikimania conferences should be world-wide get-togethers of
> Wikimedia volunteers.
>
> Staff is staff. When we send our employees around the World for these
> different conferences, we are not being very efficient. It would be far
> better to have them video-conference instead of spending hours or days in
> transport time, as well as food and lodging. Volunteers usually go on their
> vacation time.
>
> The Wikimedia movement as a whole really needs to get some expertise when
> it comes to videoconferencing using open source solutions (as opposed to
> proprietary software solutions). A good place to start would be with the
> staff since we can choose what type of software we want, and our employees
> will then learn to use it. It will then be a lot easier for the volunteers
> to do the same.
>
> Best regards
> Gabe
>
> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 2:49 PM Paulo Santos Perneta <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I totally support Illario words: "if the option is to pay 500 long
> travels
> > for scholarships by flight to attend a single event or to pay 500 travels
> > for the staff of WMF to attend several regional conferences,  the answer
> > will be in favor of the second option which is more sustainable and more
> > efficient." and what Fae and others have been saying all along. It makes
> > much more sense to restrict global meetings and events to the minimum
> > essential, and support instead regional events, which are way more
> cheaper,
> > democratic, sustainable (in all ways) and have a much less significant
> > carbon footprint. By inviting Wikimedians from nearby countries, WMF
> staff
> > and very selected international scholarships we can still be able to
> > provide great "flesh-and-bones" interaction, and can eventually
> coordinate
> > with other groups of Wikimedians from any part of the world through
> > videoconferencing. In this last Wikimania in Stockholm, I was actually
> able
> > to successfully participate remotely in a panel there, along with 2 other
> > remote fellows (me in Madeira Island, one in Israel and another in
> Mexico):
> >
> >
> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/2019:Education/Education_%26_Libraries:_Opportunities_Explored
> >
> > Of course, presential attendance and interaction is still crucial, as we
> > (generally) are not hermits editing from caves, and it has a fundamental
> > effect in local community capacity and structure building, but that can
> be
> > done at a regional (rather than national, as travel costs and footprint
> do
> > not  respect national boundaries) level.
> > For those reasons, I believe there should be a strong strategic focus on
> > funding regional conferences in the Wikimedia Movement, and was somewhat
> > disappointed when the organizing teams at Wikimania 2019 and the last
> Wiki
> > Education conference at the Basque country apparently had not also
> focused
> > on this regional approach (if it existed, it either was not explicit, or
> I
> > couldn't find it), with a weighting factor on scholarships related to the
> > proximity/vicinity of attendants.
> >
> > I agree that it is very cool to be immersed in a sea of diversity and
> > cultural interchange at Wikimedia events, with people coming from all
> parts
> > of the world, but that is not sustainable, and as has been mentioned,
> that
> > group of attendants is not necessarily representative of the active
> > Wikimedian communities. More regional events, building up a strong
> regional
> > Wikimedia structure, and limiting global events to the very essential, is
> > the way to go IMO.
> >
> > Best,
> > Paulo
> >
> > Fæ <[hidden email]> escreveu no dia segunda, 23/09/2019 à(s) 13:10:
> >
> > > Imagine a world where instead of going through security for 2 or 3
> > > hours, flying for 4 hours and travelling by train and bus to get to
> > > and from airports in order to enjoy a physical meeting with fellow
> > > Wikimedians, you simply got a bus or train and travelled for an hour
> > > to a fun meeting place where you met several fellow Wikimedians in
> > > your country, and together spend the day playing around with immersive
> > > conferencing to workshop, discuss and learn from fellow Wikimedians in
> > > other countries. All this and still get home to spend the night in
> > > your own bed, feed your cat, or meet your kids coming back from
> > > school.
> > >
> > > That's "making time and space for both" while taking real measurable
> > > action for climate change by reducing our entirely avoidable numbers
> > > of international flights.
> > >
> > > The truth is, that despite discussing this since Wikimania events
> > > started, and in that time technology making doing this is almost as
> > > simple as an Affiliate hiring headsets for mobile phones, we have
> > > never even trialled decent immersive virtual conferencing spaces for
> > > productive conferencing.
> > >
> > > Fae
> > >
> > > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:57, Rebecca O'Neill <[hidden email]
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Is it, perhaps, that the value a lot of people derive from these
> events
> > > is
> > > > not just the conference itself, but the ability to meet fellow
> > > Wikimedians
> > > > face-to-face and make meaningful contacts and even friendships that
> may
> > > > never otherwise have come about? I'm all about virtual, but there is
> > > value
> > > > in physical events, and I would say that we should make time and
> space
> > > for
> > > > both.
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019 at 12:54, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Yes
> > > > >
> > > > > We dont give all scholarships for that reason while for regional
> > > Wikicon we
> > > > > receive more requests and we fill the amount immediately.
> > > > >
> > > > > It's not an opinion that in our events people prefer to arrive by
> > > train and
> > > > > not by flight. We see it as soon we receive the expenses report and
> > > when we
> > > > > ask the reason the answer is the climate change.
> > > > >
> > > > > Kind regards
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 23 Sep 2019, 13:25 Gabriel Thullen, <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am a Swiss member, and I did go to Wikimania (and did a small
> > > > > > presentation).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think that you need to clarify you statement:
> > > > > > "In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania
> because
> > > people
> > > > > > would not do long trips."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When looking up what was sais for Wikimania 2019 I read:
> > > > > > "Wikimedia CH offers scholarships for active Wikimedians. They
> > cover
> > > > > > transportation, hotel (max 3 nights) from the 16th to the 18th,
> and
> > > > > > registration fees. To check your eligibility, you can consult
> > > conditions
> > > > > of
> > > > > > eligibility on this page
> > > > > > <
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_CH/Policies/Scholarships
> > > >."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best regards
> > > > > > Gabe
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 1:14 PM Ilario Valdelli <
> > [hidden email]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyways this is perceived by the community.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In Wikimedia CH we cannot give scholarships for Wikimania
> because
> > > > > people
> > > > > > > would not do long trips.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > IMHO the problem is these big events.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For this reason we prefer to give more scholarships for
> regional
> > > > > wikicon
> > > > > > > than to Wikimania.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is the reason why you dont see more Swiss people at
> > Wikimania.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Kind regards
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, 21 Sep 2019, 00:51 Samuel Klein, <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 4:00 PM Robert Fernandez <
> > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think we could drastically lower our carbon footprint by
> > not
> > > > > using
> > > > > > > > > community digital resources to beat the same dead horse
> for a
> > > > > > billionth
> > > > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I laughed out loud.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > AND.   I love that the WMF joined the strike, and have some
> > > practical
> > > > > > > > thoughts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > a) Reach out to Stripe
> > > > > > > > <https://stripe.com/gb/blog/negative-emissions-commitment>,
> > > which
> > > > > has
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > through self-assessment and a negative-emissions program, and
> > the
> > > > > Long
> > > > > > > Now,
> > > > > > > > to coordinate efforts.
> > > > > > > > b) Evaluate the community-wide carbon footprint, which is
> > > dominated
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > >   b.1) How we run conferences [*mostly in person*]
> > > > > > > >   b.2) How we choose partners, communicate climate
> imformation,
> > > and
> > > > > > > > prioritize related policies [*fairly ad-hoc*]
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > PhD in Digital Media
> > > > Project Coordinator Wikimedia Community Ireland <http://wikimedia.ie
> >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > [hidden email] https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > Personal and confidential, please do not circulate or re-quote.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
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> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
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> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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--
Samuel Klein          @metasj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Antoine Musso-3
In reply to this post by Bence Damokos
On 23/09/2019 18:41, Bence Damokos wrote:
> In fact, there are countless offset projects in the $1-$15/tonne range, as
> well:https://offset.climateneutralnow.org/allprojects
>
> The total offsetting budget would not need to be too enourmous, yet it
> could be impactful.
>
> Best regards,
> Bence

Hello Bence,

Very nice, thank you to have shared the link.

I have picked a project in Malawi to replace cooking fires with a fuel
efficient stove:

https://offset.climateneutralnow.org/improved-cook-stove-project-1-nkhata-bay-district-malawi-9933-

There are even progress reports:
https://cdm.unfccc.int/Projects/DB/TUEV-SUED1397540352.85/view


If I got it right, they have 38 000 tonnes per year at $8.50 for a total
of $323 000.

Given the foundation emitted 2100 tonnes in a year, that would cover 18
years of emission! For an extra few thousands we could probably have a
Wikipedia sticker on the stoves to raise awareness ;-]


In short, I am a bit amazed at how "cheap" it is to offset a tonne of
CO2 as well as how "little" the foundation generates.


--
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Pine W
Hi,

I'm glad that this conversation is going in a positive direction.

I have spent the last several days contemplating that after the events of
this summer, if I see WMF in any way associated with a surprise, I get a
stress headache and wonder what new problem has started. If I had a more
positive view of WMF, while I wouldn't have sent the WMF site "on strike"
in the way that WMF did it, I'd probably have bypassed this issue and moved
on to something else.

I'd like to suggest that going forward we change the title of this thread
to something like "Wikimedia travel, environmental costs, and financial
costs" to reflect the broader scope of this discussion,

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
For me this is a negative approach, it is all about costs and there is no
consideration of benefits. When you consider a conference with over 100
people, you CANNOT replace it by digital means. You will not have the
conversations made possible by being there in person and getting to meet
other people learn to know them, appreciate them, respect them.
Thanks,
      GerardM

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 at 07:58, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm glad that this conversation is going in a positive direction.
>
> I have spent the last several days contemplating that after the events of
> this summer, if I see WMF in any way associated with a surprise, I get a
> stress headache and wonder what new problem has started. If I had a more
> positive view of WMF, while I wouldn't have sent the WMF site "on strike"
> in the way that WMF did it, I'd probably have bypassed this issue and moved
> on to something else.
>
> I'd like to suggest that going forward we change the title of this thread
> to something like "Wikimedia travel, environmental costs, and financial
> costs" to reflect the broader scope of this discussion,
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia Foundation joins the global climate strike

Alek Tarkowski-3
Hi Gerard, (and everyone else)

I’m a newbie here and this is my first email - so Wikihello!

Adding to your point, and SJ’s great list of positive things to do:

Yes, it seems that in-person events are necessary. But has anyone questioned constructively this assumption and tried to design a movement that does not depend so much on global events?

I tried to tackle this issue in a thought piece that you might enjoy:
https://medium.com/@atarkowski/building-a-sustainable-open-movement-how-do-we-go-beyond-the-global-events-that-we-love-so-much-c724a4252062 <https://medium.com/@atarkowski/building-a-sustainable-open-movement-how-do-we-go-beyond-the-global-events-that-we-love-so-much-c724a4252062>

Best,
Alek

> On 25 Sep 2019, at 08:13, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hoi,
> For me this is a negative approach, it is all about costs and there is no
> consideration of benefits. When you consider a conference with over 100
> people, you CANNOT replace it by digital means. You will not have the
> conversations made possible by being there in person and getting to meet
> other people learn to know them, appreciate them, respect them.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM




Prezes i Fundator   |   President and Co-Founder
Centrum Cyfrowe   |   centrumcyfrowe.pl
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+
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