[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia-l diversity and level of participation

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[Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia-l diversity and level of participation

Pine W
Hello Wikimedia-l,

One subject that continues to be a source of concern for me is that I'd
like to have a greater quantity and greater diversity of participants on
Wikimedia-l. I have heard that some people feel that their English skills
are not good enough to participate here, and I don't know what more we can
do to help with them to feel welcome to participate regardless of their
choice of language or their level of English skills.

Also, I sometimes wonder whether some of our more pointed or stressful
discussions on this list make good-faith newbies and quieter people feel
too intimidated to post when I think that no one intends to make them feel
unwelcome.

I hope that this will not sound selfish, but I would like to encourage
people to comment on what could be done to facilitate greater and more
diverse participation in discussions here, and that includes feedback on
how those of us (including me) who frequently post here could do better at
helping people to feel that they have an opportunity to be heard. Although
I would encourage public discussion of these subjects, I also welcome
comments off-list. I realize that it is difficult to balance being candid
with being hospitable, and I am hoping that we can be both.

Thanks,

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia-l diversity and level of participation

Father Of Lies
I think that the moderation level on the email-list is also to high. I send in a topic twice (same topic) and both times it was rejected by the moderators.

This while the question was regarding Wikimedia and in English.

Luna

Sent from my iPhone

> On 7 Nov 2018, at 22:58, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello Wikimedia-l,
>
> One subject that continues to be a source of concern for me is that I'd
> like to have a greater quantity and greater diversity of participants on
> Wikimedia-l. I have heard that some people feel that their English skills
> are not good enough to participate here, and I don't know what more we can
> do to help with them to feel welcome to participate regardless of their
> choice of language or their level of English skills.
>
> Also, I sometimes wonder whether some of our more pointed or stressful
> discussions on this list make good-faith newbies and quieter people feel
> too intimidated to post when I think that no one intends to make them feel
> unwelcome.
>
> I hope that this will not sound selfish, but I would like to encourage
> people to comment on what could be done to facilitate greater and more
> diverse participation in discussions here, and that includes feedback on
> how those of us (including me) who frequently post here could do better at
> helping people to feel that they have an opportunity to be heard. Although
> I would encourage public discussion of these subjects, I also welcome
> comments off-list. I realize that it is difficult to balance being candid
> with being hospitable, and I am hoping that we can be both.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia-l diversity and level of participation

mathieu lovato stumpf guntz
In reply to this post by Pine W
Hi Pine,

I hope you are doing well. ☺️

It's nice to see your attention for more diversity, thank you for being a voice on this concern.

Here are the few suggestions that come to my mind regarding what could be done to make people feeling more at ease in contributing on that list :
- explicitly state in the list description that anyone can contribute in any language, and conversely provide way to access /contribute to translation of each message (this could go on Meta for example), we could also provide links to automated translations were such a tool exists for the implied pair of language
- actively promote the list in misc. village pumps, either through a global message that summerize recent active threads, with a distribution method similar to technews, or making sure that a permanent link with an attractive punchline in some main discussion place of each wiki.

I don't feel like those feedback have any chance to be given any resource by anyone reading the list, so publishing there don't seem of any use to my mind. But since reading your message made these ideas pop in my head, I prefer to at least share them with you. Feel free to do whatever you feel appropriate with that. 😉

Cheers

Le 7 novembre 2018 22:58:11 GMT+01:00, Pine W <[hidden email]> a écrit :

>Hello Wikimedia-l,
>
>One subject that continues to be a source of concern for me is that I'd
>like to have a greater quantity and greater diversity of participants
>on
>Wikimedia-l. I have heard that some people feel that their English
>skills
>are not good enough to participate here, and I don't know what more we
>can
>do to help with them to feel welcome to participate regardless of their
>choice of language or their level of English skills.
>
>Also, I sometimes wonder whether some of our more pointed or stressful
>discussions on this list make good-faith newbies and quieter people
>feel
>too intimidated to post when I think that no one intends to make them
>feel
>unwelcome.
>
>I hope that this will not sound selfish, but I would like to encourage
>people to comment on what could be done to facilitate greater and more
>diverse participation in discussions here, and that includes feedback
>on
>how those of us (including me) who frequently post here could do better
>at
>helping people to feel that they have an opportunity to be heard.
>Although
>I would encourage public discussion of these subjects, I also welcome
>comments off-list. I realize that it is difficult to balance being
>candid
>with being hospitable, and I am hoping that we can be both.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Pine
>( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>_______________________________________________
>Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
>https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>New messages to: [hidden email]
>Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
><mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: [hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia-l diversity and level of participation

Pine W
Hi Mathieu,

Thank you very much for these suggestions.

Communications inside the Wikiverse and among projects are messy and
complex. I have some ideas for how to improve our communications, including
transitioning mailing lists to Discourse and creating a central place where
people can subscribe or unsubscribe to newsletters. I will add your ideas
to the mix. Hopefully these issues will get some attention during 2019.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )


On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 4:24 PM Mathieu Lovato Stumpf Guntz <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Pine,
>
> I hope you are doing well. ☺️
>
> It's nice to see your attention for more diversity, thank you for being a
> voice on this concern.
>
> Here are the few suggestions that come to my mind regarding what could be
> done to make people feeling more at ease in contributing on that list :
> - explicitly state in the list description that anyone can contribute in
> any language, and conversely provide way to access /contribute to
> translation of each message (this could go on Meta for example), we could
> also provide links to automated translations were such a tool exists for
> the implied pair of language
> - actively promote the list in misc. village pumps, either through a
> global message that summerize recent active threads, with a distribution
> method similar to technews, or making sure that a permanent link with an
> attractive punchline in some main discussion place of each wiki.
>
> I don't feel like those feedback have any chance to be given any resource
> by anyone reading the list, so publishing there don't seem of any use to my
> mind. But since reading your message made these ideas pop in my head, I
> prefer to at least share them with you. Feel free to do whatever you feel
> appropriate with that. 😉
>
> Cheers
>
> Le 7 novembre 2018 22:58:11 GMT+01:00, Pine W <[hidden email]> a
> écrit :
>>
>> Hello Wikimedia-l,
>>
>> One subject that continues to be a source of concern for me is that I'd
>> like to have a greater quantity and greater diversity of participants on
>> Wikimedia-l. I have heard that some people feel that their English skills
>> are not good enough to participate here, and I don't know what more we can
>> do to help with them to feel welcome to participate regardless of their
>> choice of language or their level of English skills.
>>
>> Also, I sometimes wonder whether some of our more pointed or stressful
>> discussions on this list make good-faith newbies and quieter people feel
>> too intimidated to post when I think that no one intends to make them feel
>> unwelcome.
>>
>> I hope that this will not sound selfish, but I would like to encourage
>> people to comment on what could be done to facilitate greater and more
>> diverse participation in discussions here, and that includes feedback on
>> how those of us (including me) who frequently post here could do better at
>> helping people to feel that they have an opportunity to be heard. Although
>> I would encourage public discussion of these subjects, I also welcome
>> comments off-list. I realize that it is difficult to balance being candid
>> with being hospitable, and I am hoping that we can be both.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikimedia-l diversity and level of participation

Dakota Ross
I can't find a more formal way to word this message, so I'll hope something
along the lines of a word vomit essay is alright.

I think a major part of the problem you brought up is a lack of easily
accessible resources to get involved. Sure, Meta tells users *how to get on
mailing lists*, but there's no description of the topics regularly
discussed, and no information on those topics. For example, not a ton of
Wikimedia users are all that familiar with the Affiliations Committee—even
I wasn't until reading this mailing list.

In order to get more users involved, we need to focus not just on
international language barriers, but also information barriers for
everybody. Even something as simple as a "Wikimedia-l topic reference" or
"Mailing list topic reference" page on Meta including quick rundowns of
certain things and some links to more in-depth information pages on the
various topics would likely have a positive impact on participation.

When people know what is being discussed, they can learn by observing the
discussions, and feel that much more confident in participation.

I hope this helps!

Dakota (dross)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dross

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018, 15:59 Pine W <[hidden email] wrote:

> Hi Mathieu,
>
> Thank you very much for these suggestions.
>
> Communications inside the Wikiverse and among projects are messy and
> complex. I have some ideas for how to improve our communications, including
> transitioning mailing lists to Discourse and creating a central place where
> people can subscribe or unsubscribe to newsletters. I will add your ideas
> to the mix. Hopefully these issues will get some attention during 2019.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 17, 2018 at 4:24 PM Mathieu Lovato Stumpf Guntz <
> [hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Pine,
> >
> > I hope you are doing well. ☺️
> >
> > It's nice to see your attention for more diversity, thank you for being a
> > voice on this concern.
> >
> > Here are the few suggestions that come to my mind regarding what could be
> > done to make people feeling more at ease in contributing on that list :
> > - explicitly state in the list description that anyone can contribute in
> > any language, and conversely provide way to access /contribute to
> > translation of each message (this could go on Meta for example), we could
> > also provide links to automated translations were such a tool exists for
> > the implied pair of language
> > - actively promote the list in misc. village pumps, either through a
> > global message that summerize recent active threads, with a distribution
> > method similar to technews, or making sure that a permanent link with an
> > attractive punchline in some main discussion place of each wiki.
> >
> > I don't feel like those feedback have any chance to be given any resource
> > by anyone reading the list, so publishing there don't seem of any use to
> my
> > mind. But since reading your message made these ideas pop in my head, I
> > prefer to at least share them with you. Feel free to do whatever you feel
> > appropriate with that. 😉
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Le 7 novembre 2018 22:58:11 GMT+01:00, Pine W <[hidden email]> a
> > écrit :
> >>
> >> Hello Wikimedia-l,
> >>
> >> One subject that continues to be a source of concern for me is that I'd
> >> like to have a greater quantity and greater diversity of participants on
> >> Wikimedia-l. I have heard that some people feel that their English
> skills
> >> are not good enough to participate here, and I don't know what more we
> can
> >> do to help with them to feel welcome to participate regardless of their
> >> choice of language or their level of English skills.
> >>
> >> Also, I sometimes wonder whether some of our more pointed or stressful
> >> discussions on this list make good-faith newbies and quieter people feel
> >> too intimidated to post when I think that no one intends to make them
> feel
> >> unwelcome.
> >>
> >> I hope that this will not sound selfish, but I would like to encourage
> >> people to comment on what could be done to facilitate greater and more
> >> diverse participation in discussions here, and that includes feedback on
> >> how those of us (including me) who frequently post here could do better
> at
> >> helping people to feel that they have an opportunity to be heard.
> Although
> >> I would encourage public discussion of these subjects, I also welcome
> >> comments off-list. I realize that it is difficult to balance being
> candid
> >> with being hospitable, and I am hoping that we can be both.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Pine
> >> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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