[Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

Keegan Peterzell
On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]>
wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Actually, I am quite appalled by the article. Whether one wants to see
>> something positive in pirating or not, the Wikimedia servers are not meant
>> for this purpose (for good reasons). Breaking rules and taking abuse of an
>> opportunity is not a goal by itself.
>> Kind regards
>> Ziko
>>
>
> ​Call it what you want, but the world is changed when ordinary people who
> are just trying to do ordinary things​
>
> ​have a roadblock put in front of them. This is that kind of thing, and
> it's the "revolution" power of the distributed internet.​ We can shut them
> down, but Angolans are going to find another way to do the very things that
> those with full access to the internet take for granted. As Jason says, we
> should take great caution and give deep thought before taking a binary side.
>
>
​Oh, and I'm not condoning the behavior or use of Wikimedia servers, but I
do think that the entire situation is much more nuanced than the simplicity
of "that's wrong."​


--
~Keegan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan

This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
is in a personal capacity.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

Vi to
Personally I'd say "it's 100% wrong" but "not 100% to blame".

I've just made https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T130761 IMHO we need to
address the problem form a technical point of view, implicitly discarding
"block'em all" options.

Vito

2016-03-23 19:42 GMT+01:00 Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]>:

> On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 1:26 PM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 1:20 PM, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Actually, I am quite appalled by the article. Whether one wants to see
> >> something positive in pirating or not, the Wikimedia servers are not
> meant
> >> for this purpose (for good reasons). Breaking rules and taking abuse of
> an
> >> opportunity is not a goal by itself.
> >> Kind regards
> >> Ziko
> >>
> >
> > ​Call it what you want, but the world is changed when ordinary people who
> > are just trying to do ordinary things​
> >
> > ​have a roadblock put in front of them. This is that kind of thing, and
> > it's the "revolution" power of the distributed internet.​ We can shut
> them
> > down, but Angolans are going to find another way to do the very things
> that
> > those with full access to the internet take for granted. As Jason says,
> we
> > should take great caution and give deep thought before taking a binary
> side.
> >
> >
> ​Oh, and I'm not condoning the behavior or use of Wikimedia servers, but I
> do think that the entire situation is much more nuanced than the simplicity
> of "that's wrong."​
>
>
> --
> ~Keegan
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
>
> This is my personal email address. Everything sent from this email address
> is in a personal capacity.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

David Emrany
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
Dear Gerard

Correspondingly, what I find unconscionable for us is that a small
group of Commons editors /admins congregated on the talk page of
'Teles' and discussed how to secretly spy on these new Zeropaid
enabled editors and monitor their Facebook-basic pages [1], [2].

IMO had this been more widely discussed at Commons seeking solutions,
we would not be seeing unfortunate news articles like the one Andreas
Kolbe has linked to

Regards

Dave

[1]  https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATeles&type=revision&diff=168565809&oldid=168565337&uselang=en

[2] https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case&oldid=168514640

On 3/20/16, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hoi,
> Realistically. Wikipedia is very much an enabler.
>
> Your ease to consider "simply" disabling mobile edits or uploads I find
> appalling. People in countries like USA or UK are very fortunate. Nobody
> would ever argue to disable their edits or uploads. At the same time as a
> movement we desperately need more and more diverse involvement. While you
> may say what you want, it is unconscionable for us to do as you suggest as
> it is fully contrary to what we aim to achieve.
>
> What we are experiencing is a bump in the road. We have to deal with it but
> throwing the baby with the washing water? REALLY !!
> Thanks,
>       GerardM
>
> On 19 March 2016 at 15:03, David Emrany <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hi Adele
>>
>> Can we have a clear picture of Wikimedia's ‘complicated’ relationship
>> with net neutrality - 1year on from the Washington Post story [1]
>>
>> Can we also have specific figures on how much of WMF's traffic has
>> been lost / gained from key markets in Latin America and Asia after
>> regulators have blocked zeropaid schemes due to local concerns.
>>
>> WMF's "complicated" stance has also turned off many like-minded
>> support groups who stand for pure net neutrality - and not WMF's or
>> Facebook's ersatz versions [2]
>>
>> Lastly, if the primary aim of Wikipedia Zero is to gain readership,
>> why not simply disable all mobile edits / uploads from these accounts.
>>
>> David
>>
>> [1]
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/
>>
>> [2]
>> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-protecting-the-internet/
>>
>> On 3/19/16, Adele Vrana <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Hi Teles,
>> >
>> > As the head of the Wikipedia Zero program, I would like to respond and
>> > provide more context to the important challenges you are bringing up.
>> >
>> > Last year, the Foundation increased our security and privacy by
>> > requiring
>> > HTTPS to access all Wikimedia projects. That change has greatly impacted
>> > the Wikipedia Zero program, and most importantly has also allowed
>> > editing
>> > (and not only reading) and extended the scope of zero-rated access from
>> > just Wikipedia to all Wikimedia projects. However, our banners do not
>> > reflect this additional zero-rating, but still only appear on Wikipedia.
>> >
>> > In your message you highlight two main concerns. One would be the upload
>> of
>> > copyrighted materials and overall abuse on Commons. The other concern
>> > regards how the editing community should deal with an influx of new good
>> > faith edits and potential editors in Portuguese, with particular
>> challenge
>> > of the extra work this causes for existing community members.
>> >
>> > Regarding Commons, we have experienced abuse from a few subscribers of a
>> > Zero partner in Angola. Typically what happens is that the pirates
>> > upload
>> > copyrighted movies to Commons either directly or in a concealed form
>> (like
>> > huge/split PDFs or JPEGs). Then they promote the links on Facebook or a
>> > similar public forum for others to download. When partners become aware
>> of
>> > this they have flagged it to us and we've, in turn, flagged it to
>> Community
>> > Engagement who has worked with editors to try and make sure it's
>> > removed.
>> >
>> > We agree that this is not an ideal way to handle this problem, and we
>> would
>> > prefer to catch it much earlier or simply prevent it outright (without
>> > significant limits being placed on good faith editors). Last fall, we
>> > had
>> > internal discussions on finding technical solutions for this problem.
>> > However, we discovered that we could not widely identify traffic from
>> zero
>> > rated partners, and that ability was a prerequisite to address this
>> issue.
>> > As of December 2015, the Ops team was able to complete that work.
>> >
>> > With this task completed, our team, in coordination with community
>> > engagement and engineering is working on finding the best approach to
>> > resolve this issue. Do you have suggestions or guidance? We are eager to
>> > examine multiple approaches and this is a great time to open the
>> > discussion. As we evaluate different approaches, we can also update you
>> and
>> > the list here.
>> >
>> > On the editing topic, the primary goal of Wikipedia Zero is to increase
>> > readership. This is measured in potential reach (through subscriber
>> counts)
>> > and pageviews within regions with Wikipedia Zero partnerships.  There’s
>> not
>> > enough information to show that Zero can also increase editorship, but
>> > it
>> > is something we believe is furthered by expanding reading access. So if
>> > that is what is happening in Angola, we see that is a great thing.
>> >
>> > However, we understand that it’s challenging for our existing editing
>> > community to handle a sudden influx of new editors. This seems to be a
>> > crucial and important conversation for the movement at large to have. I
>> > hope we can figure out a way to turn this moment in Angola into an
>> > opportunity to learn how to deal with new readers and editors.
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> > Adele
>> >
>> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> some of the issue stems form the copyright laws of Angola, which are
>> >> really
>> >> interesting to read -- read them in english --
>> >> https://www.copyright-watch.org/files/Angola.pdf  of course I dont
>> expect
>> >> people to know their copyright laws in detail or to have read them but
>> >> they
>> >> do know the principles of it and what they can do
>> >>
>> >> some points of interest
>> >>
>> >>    - Non protected works Article  9 section c -- news of the day
>> published
>> >>    by the press or broadcast
>> >>    - Chapter IV Uses lawful without Authorisation article 29 section b
>> >> -
>> >>    reproduction by photographic process or process analogous to
>> >> photographic
>> >>    process by <snip> documentation centres <snip> or teaching
>> >> organisations
>> >>    ..... refers to minimum amount of copies necessary, but wither way
>> >>    Wikipedia would fall into either of these definitions as permitted
>> >> to
>> >>    reproduce
>> >>    - article 30 - is the key here it enables translation into
>> >> Portuguese
>> >>    after 3 years without any real restrictions - hence why the pt.wikis
>> >> are
>> >>    having so much of an issue and by extension commons where they
>> >> encourage
>> >>    uploading of media
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Wikipedia zero implementation needs to also consider the implication of
>> >> local laws especially copyright on the projects where the laws are this
>> >> outdated and effectively enable copyright issues then WP Zero could
>> >> provide
>> >> a read only option for IP's or a no upload option,  with a rights
>> request
>> >> process on commons
>> >>
>> >> On 19 March 2016 at 00:45, Lucas Teles <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hi, everyone.
>> >> >
>> >> > It is being recently reported on Portuguese Wikipedia and Commons (at
>> >> > least) the increasing ammount of improper editing coming from IP
>> >> addresses
>> >> > located in Angola. Some users believe that this may be related with
>> >> > Wikipedia Zero and a partnership between WMF and a cellphone company
>> [1]
>> >> > that allows reading and editing at free cost.
>> >> >
>> >> > One of the first reactions to that is a large range block that was
>> just
>> >> set
>> >> > on Commons in order to prevent these edits [2], as they are being
>> >> > done
>> >> in a
>> >> > way that volunteers can't handle.
>> >> >
>> >> > That seems to be some kind of "second wave" as the first that hit
>> >> > Commons
>> >> > [3] had been already reported months ago [4] and seemed to be
>> controled
>> >> or
>> >> > just paused for a while. On Portuguese Wikipedia, one thing that
>> seemss
>> >> to
>> >> > be clear is that edits are done in good faith. However, they end by
>> >> > being
>> >> > undone as they are incorrect for some reason, whether being pages of
>> >> files
>> >> > about themselves or just test edits. One of the users identified
>> >> > actually
>> >> > confirm [5] that he is editing through Wikipedia Zero.
>> >> >
>> >> > Concerning that more partnerships may occur in future, I think it is
>> >> > time
>> >> > for us to start talking about ways of dealing with that, other than
>> >> > blocking. Sadly, I don't have an answer to that problem, but I tend
>> >> > to
>> >> > believe that some way of mass reaching these potential users should
>> >> > be
>> >> made
>> >> > out.
>> >> >
>> >> > The current process is that editors will be the ones to notice that
>> (as
>> >> > I
>> >> > am not aware of any kind of follow up by WMF on that) and they will
>> try
>> >> to
>> >> > solve their way, which may cause too many collateral damage.
>> >> >
>> >> > I wonder if there is any kind of way to diminish the problem, by
>> >> > using
>> >> any
>> >> > off-wiki strategy.
>> >> >
>> >> > Kind regards.
>> >> >
>> >> > Teles
>> >> >
>> >> > [1] -
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> http://www.telecompaper.com/news/movicel-offers-free-access-to-wikipedia--1116012
>> >> > [2] -
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steinsplitter&oldid=190598884#Unblock
>> >> > [3] -
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case
>> >> > [4] -
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=12835750#Wikipedia_Zero_being_used_to_violate_copyright
>> >> > [5] -
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Darwinius&diff=prev&oldid=45095087
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > *Lucas Teles*
>> >> >
>> >> > *+55 (71) 98290 7553Steward at Wikimedia Foundation. Administrator *
>> >> > *at Portuguese Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons.*- wikipedista.com
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
>> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> GN.
>> >> President Wikimedia Australia
>> >> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> >> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > *Adele Vrana*
>> > *Strategic Partnerships*
>> > Wikimedia Foundation
>> > +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6773
>> > [hidden email]
>> >
>> > *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
>> the
>> > sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Donate.
>> > <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > New messages to: [hidden email]
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

Vi to
It's ordinary countervandalism, honestly I cannot find anything
questionable but maybe a missed something.

Vito

2016-03-24 9:04 GMT+01:00 David Emrany <[hidden email]>:

> Dear Gerard
>
> Correspondingly, what I find unconscionable for us is that a small
> group of Commons editors /admins congregated on the talk page of
> 'Teles' and discussed how to secretly spy on these new Zeropaid
> enabled editors and monitor their Facebook-basic pages [1], [2].
>
> IMO had this been more widely discussed at Commons seeking solutions,
> we would not be seeing unfortunate news articles like the one Andreas
> Kolbe has linked to
>
> Regards
>
> Dave
>
> [1]
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATeles&type=revision&diff=168565809&oldid=168565337&uselang=en
>
> [2]
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case&oldid=168514640
>
> On 3/20/16, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Realistically. Wikipedia is very much an enabler.
> >
> > Your ease to consider "simply" disabling mobile edits or uploads I find
> > appalling. People in countries like USA or UK are very fortunate. Nobody
> > would ever argue to disable their edits or uploads. At the same time as a
> > movement we desperately need more and more diverse involvement. While you
> > may say what you want, it is unconscionable for us to do as you suggest
> as
> > it is fully contrary to what we aim to achieve.
> >
> > What we are experiencing is a bump in the road. We have to deal with it
> but
> > throwing the baby with the washing water? REALLY !!
> > Thanks,
> >       GerardM
> >
> > On 19 March 2016 at 15:03, David Emrany <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Adele
> >>
> >> Can we have a clear picture of Wikimedia's ‘complicated’ relationship
> >> with net neutrality - 1year on from the Washington Post story [1]
> >>
> >> Can we also have specific figures on how much of WMF's traffic has
> >> been lost / gained from key markets in Latin America and Asia after
> >> regulators have blocked zeropaid schemes due to local concerns.
> >>
> >> WMF's "complicated" stance has also turned off many like-minded
> >> support groups who stand for pure net neutrality - and not WMF's or
> >> Facebook's ersatz versions [2]
> >>
> >> Lastly, if the primary aim of Wikipedia Zero is to gain readership,
> >> why not simply disable all mobile edits / uploads from these accounts.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/
> >>
> >> [2]
> >>
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-protecting-the-internet/
> >>
> >> On 3/19/16, Adele Vrana <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > Hi Teles,
> >> >
> >> > As the head of the Wikipedia Zero program, I would like to respond and
> >> > provide more context to the important challenges you are bringing up.
> >> >
> >> > Last year, the Foundation increased our security and privacy by
> >> > requiring
> >> > HTTPS to access all Wikimedia projects. That change has greatly
> impacted
> >> > the Wikipedia Zero program, and most importantly has also allowed
> >> > editing
> >> > (and not only reading) and extended the scope of zero-rated access
> from
> >> > just Wikipedia to all Wikimedia projects. However, our banners do not
> >> > reflect this additional zero-rating, but still only appear on
> Wikipedia.
> >> >
> >> > In your message you highlight two main concerns. One would be the
> upload
> >> of
> >> > copyrighted materials and overall abuse on Commons. The other concern
> >> > regards how the editing community should deal with an influx of new
> good
> >> > faith edits and potential editors in Portuguese, with particular
> >> challenge
> >> > of the extra work this causes for existing community members.
> >> >
> >> > Regarding Commons, we have experienced abuse from a few subscribers
> of a
> >> > Zero partner in Angola. Typically what happens is that the pirates
> >> > upload
> >> > copyrighted movies to Commons either directly or in a concealed form
> >> (like
> >> > huge/split PDFs or JPEGs). Then they promote the links on Facebook or
> a
> >> > similar public forum for others to download. When partners become
> aware
> >> of
> >> > this they have flagged it to us and we've, in turn, flagged it to
> >> Community
> >> > Engagement who has worked with editors to try and make sure it's
> >> > removed.
> >> >
> >> > We agree that this is not an ideal way to handle this problem, and we
> >> would
> >> > prefer to catch it much earlier or simply prevent it outright (without
> >> > significant limits being placed on good faith editors). Last fall, we
> >> > had
> >> > internal discussions on finding technical solutions for this problem.
> >> > However, we discovered that we could not widely identify traffic from
> >> zero
> >> > rated partners, and that ability was a prerequisite to address this
> >> issue.
> >> > As of December 2015, the Ops team was able to complete that work.
> >> >
> >> > With this task completed, our team, in coordination with community
> >> > engagement and engineering is working on finding the best approach to
> >> > resolve this issue. Do you have suggestions or guidance? We are eager
> to
> >> > examine multiple approaches and this is a great time to open the
> >> > discussion. As we evaluate different approaches, we can also update
> you
> >> and
> >> > the list here.
> >> >
> >> > On the editing topic, the primary goal of Wikipedia Zero is to
> increase
> >> > readership. This is measured in potential reach (through subscriber
> >> counts)
> >> > and pageviews within regions with Wikipedia Zero partnerships.
> There’s
> >> not
> >> > enough information to show that Zero can also increase editorship, but
> >> > it
> >> > is something we believe is furthered by expanding reading access. So
> if
> >> > that is what is happening in Angola, we see that is a great thing.
> >> >
> >> > However, we understand that it’s challenging for our existing editing
> >> > community to handle a sudden influx of new editors. This seems to be a
> >> > crucial and important conversation for the movement at large to have.
> I
> >> > hope we can figure out a way to turn this moment in Angola into an
> >> > opportunity to learn how to deal with new readers and editors.
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Adele
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> some of the issue stems form the copyright laws of Angola, which are
> >> >> really
> >> >> interesting to read -- read them in english --
> >> >> https://www.copyright-watch.org/files/Angola.pdf  of course I dont
> >> expect
> >> >> people to know their copyright laws in detail or to have read them
> but
> >> >> they
> >> >> do know the principles of it and what they can do
> >> >>
> >> >> some points of interest
> >> >>
> >> >>    - Non protected works Article  9 section c -- news of the day
> >> published
> >> >>    by the press or broadcast
> >> >>    - Chapter IV Uses lawful without Authorisation article 29 section
> b
> >> >> -
> >> >>    reproduction by photographic process or process analogous to
> >> >> photographic
> >> >>    process by <snip> documentation centres <snip> or teaching
> >> >> organisations
> >> >>    ..... refers to minimum amount of copies necessary, but wither way
> >> >>    Wikipedia would fall into either of these definitions as permitted
> >> >> to
> >> >>    reproduce
> >> >>    - article 30 - is the key here it enables translation into
> >> >> Portuguese
> >> >>    after 3 years without any real restrictions - hence why the
> pt.wikis
> >> >> are
> >> >>    having so much of an issue and by extension commons where they
> >> >> encourage
> >> >>    uploading of media
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Wikipedia zero implementation needs to also consider the implication
> of
> >> >> local laws especially copyright on the projects where the laws are
> this
> >> >> outdated and effectively enable copyright issues then WP Zero could
> >> >> provide
> >> >> a read only option for IP's or a no upload option,  with a rights
> >> request
> >> >> process on commons
> >> >>
> >> >> On 19 March 2016 at 00:45, Lucas Teles <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hi, everyone.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It is being recently reported on Portuguese Wikipedia and Commons
> (at
> >> >> > least) the increasing ammount of improper editing coming from IP
> >> >> addresses
> >> >> > located in Angola. Some users believe that this may be related with
> >> >> > Wikipedia Zero and a partnership between WMF and a cellphone
> company
> >> [1]
> >> >> > that allows reading and editing at free cost.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > One of the first reactions to that is a large range block that was
> >> just
> >> >> set
> >> >> > on Commons in order to prevent these edits [2], as they are being
> >> >> > done
> >> >> in a
> >> >> > way that volunteers can't handle.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That seems to be some kind of "second wave" as the first that hit
> >> >> > Commons
> >> >> > [3] had been already reported months ago [4] and seemed to be
> >> controled
> >> >> or
> >> >> > just paused for a while. On Portuguese Wikipedia, one thing that
> >> seemss
> >> >> to
> >> >> > be clear is that edits are done in good faith. However, they end by
> >> >> > being
> >> >> > undone as they are incorrect for some reason, whether being pages
> of
> >> >> files
> >> >> > about themselves or just test edits. One of the users identified
> >> >> > actually
> >> >> > confirm [5] that he is editing through Wikipedia Zero.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Concerning that more partnerships may occur in future, I think it
> is
> >> >> > time
> >> >> > for us to start talking about ways of dealing with that, other than
> >> >> > blocking. Sadly, I don't have an answer to that problem, but I tend
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > believe that some way of mass reaching these potential users should
> >> >> > be
> >> >> made
> >> >> > out.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The current process is that editors will be the ones to notice that
> >> (as
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > am not aware of any kind of follow up by WMF on that) and they will
> >> try
> >> >> to
> >> >> > solve their way, which may cause too many collateral damage.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I wonder if there is any kind of way to diminish the problem, by
> >> >> > using
> >> >> any
> >> >> > off-wiki strategy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Kind regards.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Teles
> >> >> >
> >> >> > [1] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.telecompaper.com/news/movicel-offers-free-access-to-wikipedia--1116012
> >> >> > [2] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steinsplitter&oldid=190598884#Unblock
> >> >> > [3] -
> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case
> >> >> > [4] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=12835750#Wikipedia_Zero_being_used_to_violate_copyright
> >> >> > [5] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Darwinius&diff=prev&oldid=45095087
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > *Lucas Teles*
> >> >> >
> >> >> > *+55 (71) 98290 7553Steward at Wikimedia Foundation. Administrator
> *
> >> >> > *at Portuguese Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons.*- wikipedista.com
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> >> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >> ,
> >> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> GN.
> >> >> President Wikimedia Australia
> >> >> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> >> >> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> >> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *Adele Vrana*
> >> > *Strategic Partnerships*
> >> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >> > +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6773
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> >
> >> > *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> >> the
> >> > sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Donate.
> >> > <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by David Emrany
Hoi,
So what are you saying? It is ok for people to do dastardly things and
abuse Commons and it is even worse when people at Commons use the
environment they know, the Internet, to do some research and expose what
they find?

Really? And I must be impressed when Mr Kolbe asks attention for it??
Because what! It a Dutch proverb the best sailors are ashore. The same can
be said by Mr Kolbe who is proficient in telling other people what to do
and why he objects. That is his prerogative as it is mine to be
underwhelmed.

Be serious. When issues arise, we may work towards an understanding and a
solution and sometimes hands get dirty. I will always support people who
actually make a meaningful difference over people who cannot be faulted.
Mistakes are made and when that is a problem go elsewhere. When there is a
meaningful discussion anything is on the cards. So far this is not one.
Thanks,
       GerarddM

On 24 March 2016 at 09:04, David Emrany <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Gerard
>
> Correspondingly, what I find unconscionable for us is that a small
> group of Commons editors /admins congregated on the talk page of
> 'Teles' and discussed how to secretly spy on these new Zeropaid
> enabled editors and monitor their Facebook-basic pages [1], [2].
>
> IMO had this been more widely discussed at Commons seeking solutions,
> we would not be seeing unfortunate news articles like the one Andreas
> Kolbe has linked to
>
> Regards
>
> Dave
>
> [1]
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATeles&type=revision&diff=168565809&oldid=168565337&uselang=en
>
> [2]
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case&oldid=168514640
>
> On 3/20/16, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hoi,
> > Realistically. Wikipedia is very much an enabler.
> >
> > Your ease to consider "simply" disabling mobile edits or uploads I find
> > appalling. People in countries like USA or UK are very fortunate. Nobody
> > would ever argue to disable their edits or uploads. At the same time as a
> > movement we desperately need more and more diverse involvement. While you
> > may say what you want, it is unconscionable for us to do as you suggest
> as
> > it is fully contrary to what we aim to achieve.
> >
> > What we are experiencing is a bump in the road. We have to deal with it
> but
> > throwing the baby with the washing water? REALLY !!
> > Thanks,
> >       GerardM
> >
> > On 19 March 2016 at 15:03, David Emrany <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Adele
> >>
> >> Can we have a clear picture of Wikimedia's ‘complicated’ relationship
> >> with net neutrality - 1year on from the Washington Post story [1]
> >>
> >> Can we also have specific figures on how much of WMF's traffic has
> >> been lost / gained from key markets in Latin America and Asia after
> >> regulators have blocked zeropaid schemes due to local concerns.
> >>
> >> WMF's "complicated" stance has also turned off many like-minded
> >> support groups who stand for pure net neutrality - and not WMF's or
> >> Facebook's ersatz versions [2]
> >>
> >> Lastly, if the primary aim of Wikipedia Zero is to gain readership,
> >> why not simply disable all mobile edits / uploads from these accounts.
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/
> >>
> >> [2]
> >>
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-protecting-the-internet/
> >>
> >> On 3/19/16, Adele Vrana <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> > Hi Teles,
> >> >
> >> > As the head of the Wikipedia Zero program, I would like to respond and
> >> > provide more context to the important challenges you are bringing up.
> >> >
> >> > Last year, the Foundation increased our security and privacy by
> >> > requiring
> >> > HTTPS to access all Wikimedia projects. That change has greatly
> impacted
> >> > the Wikipedia Zero program, and most importantly has also allowed
> >> > editing
> >> > (and not only reading) and extended the scope of zero-rated access
> from
> >> > just Wikipedia to all Wikimedia projects. However, our banners do not
> >> > reflect this additional zero-rating, but still only appear on
> Wikipedia.
> >> >
> >> > In your message you highlight two main concerns. One would be the
> upload
> >> of
> >> > copyrighted materials and overall abuse on Commons. The other concern
> >> > regards how the editing community should deal with an influx of new
> good
> >> > faith edits and potential editors in Portuguese, with particular
> >> challenge
> >> > of the extra work this causes for existing community members.
> >> >
> >> > Regarding Commons, we have experienced abuse from a few subscribers
> of a
> >> > Zero partner in Angola. Typically what happens is that the pirates
> >> > upload
> >> > copyrighted movies to Commons either directly or in a concealed form
> >> (like
> >> > huge/split PDFs or JPEGs). Then they promote the links on Facebook or
> a
> >> > similar public forum for others to download. When partners become
> aware
> >> of
> >> > this they have flagged it to us and we've, in turn, flagged it to
> >> Community
> >> > Engagement who has worked with editors to try and make sure it's
> >> > removed.
> >> >
> >> > We agree that this is not an ideal way to handle this problem, and we
> >> would
> >> > prefer to catch it much earlier or simply prevent it outright (without
> >> > significant limits being placed on good faith editors). Last fall, we
> >> > had
> >> > internal discussions on finding technical solutions for this problem.
> >> > However, we discovered that we could not widely identify traffic from
> >> zero
> >> > rated partners, and that ability was a prerequisite to address this
> >> issue.
> >> > As of December 2015, the Ops team was able to complete that work.
> >> >
> >> > With this task completed, our team, in coordination with community
> >> > engagement and engineering is working on finding the best approach to
> >> > resolve this issue. Do you have suggestions or guidance? We are eager
> to
> >> > examine multiple approaches and this is a great time to open the
> >> > discussion. As we evaluate different approaches, we can also update
> you
> >> and
> >> > the list here.
> >> >
> >> > On the editing topic, the primary goal of Wikipedia Zero is to
> increase
> >> > readership. This is measured in potential reach (through subscriber
> >> counts)
> >> > and pageviews within regions with Wikipedia Zero partnerships.
> There’s
> >> not
> >> > enough information to show that Zero can also increase editorship, but
> >> > it
> >> > is something we believe is furthered by expanding reading access. So
> if
> >> > that is what is happening in Angola, we see that is a great thing.
> >> >
> >> > However, we understand that it’s challenging for our existing editing
> >> > community to handle a sudden influx of new editors. This seems to be a
> >> > crucial and important conversation for the movement at large to have.
> I
> >> > hope we can figure out a way to turn this moment in Angola into an
> >> > opportunity to learn how to deal with new readers and editors.
> >> >
> >> > Best regards,
> >> > Adele
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> some of the issue stems form the copyright laws of Angola, which are
> >> >> really
> >> >> interesting to read -- read them in english --
> >> >> https://www.copyright-watch.org/files/Angola.pdf  of course I dont
> >> expect
> >> >> people to know their copyright laws in detail or to have read them
> but
> >> >> they
> >> >> do know the principles of it and what they can do
> >> >>
> >> >> some points of interest
> >> >>
> >> >>    - Non protected works Article  9 section c -- news of the day
> >> published
> >> >>    by the press or broadcast
> >> >>    - Chapter IV Uses lawful without Authorisation article 29 section
> b
> >> >> -
> >> >>    reproduction by photographic process or process analogous to
> >> >> photographic
> >> >>    process by <snip> documentation centres <snip> or teaching
> >> >> organisations
> >> >>    ..... refers to minimum amount of copies necessary, but wither way
> >> >>    Wikipedia would fall into either of these definitions as permitted
> >> >> to
> >> >>    reproduce
> >> >>    - article 30 - is the key here it enables translation into
> >> >> Portuguese
> >> >>    after 3 years without any real restrictions - hence why the
> pt.wikis
> >> >> are
> >> >>    having so much of an issue and by extension commons where they
> >> >> encourage
> >> >>    uploading of media
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Wikipedia zero implementation needs to also consider the implication
> of
> >> >> local laws especially copyright on the projects where the laws are
> this
> >> >> outdated and effectively enable copyright issues then WP Zero could
> >> >> provide
> >> >> a read only option for IP's or a no upload option,  with a rights
> >> request
> >> >> process on commons
> >> >>
> >> >> On 19 March 2016 at 00:45, Lucas Teles <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > Hi, everyone.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It is being recently reported on Portuguese Wikipedia and Commons
> (at
> >> >> > least) the increasing ammount of improper editing coming from IP
> >> >> addresses
> >> >> > located in Angola. Some users believe that this may be related with
> >> >> > Wikipedia Zero and a partnership between WMF and a cellphone
> company
> >> [1]
> >> >> > that allows reading and editing at free cost.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > One of the first reactions to that is a large range block that was
> >> just
> >> >> set
> >> >> > on Commons in order to prevent these edits [2], as they are being
> >> >> > done
> >> >> in a
> >> >> > way that volunteers can't handle.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > That seems to be some kind of "second wave" as the first that hit
> >> >> > Commons
> >> >> > [3] had been already reported months ago [4] and seemed to be
> >> controled
> >> >> or
> >> >> > just paused for a while. On Portuguese Wikipedia, one thing that
> >> seemss
> >> >> to
> >> >> > be clear is that edits are done in good faith. However, they end by
> >> >> > being
> >> >> > undone as they are incorrect for some reason, whether being pages
> of
> >> >> files
> >> >> > about themselves or just test edits. One of the users identified
> >> >> > actually
> >> >> > confirm [5] that he is editing through Wikipedia Zero.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Concerning that more partnerships may occur in future, I think it
> is
> >> >> > time
> >> >> > for us to start talking about ways of dealing with that, other than
> >> >> > blocking. Sadly, I don't have an answer to that problem, but I tend
> >> >> > to
> >> >> > believe that some way of mass reaching these potential users should
> >> >> > be
> >> >> made
> >> >> > out.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The current process is that editors will be the ones to notice that
> >> (as
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > am not aware of any kind of follow up by WMF on that) and they will
> >> try
> >> >> to
> >> >> > solve their way, which may cause too many collateral damage.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I wonder if there is any kind of way to diminish the problem, by
> >> >> > using
> >> >> any
> >> >> > off-wiki strategy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Kind regards.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Teles
> >> >> >
> >> >> > [1] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> http://www.telecompaper.com/news/movicel-offers-free-access-to-wikipedia--1116012
> >> >> > [2] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steinsplitter&oldid=190598884#Unblock
> >> >> > [3] -
> >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case
> >> >> > [4] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=12835750#Wikipedia_Zero_being_used_to_violate_copyright
> >> >> > [5] -
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Darwinius&diff=prev&oldid=45095087
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > *Lucas Teles*
> >> >> >
> >> >> > *+55 (71) 98290 7553Steward at Wikimedia Foundation. Administrator
> *
> >> >> > *at Portuguese Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons.*- wikipedista.com
> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> >> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> >> ,
> >> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> GN.
> >> >> President Wikimedia Australia
> >> >> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> >> >> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> >> Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > *Adele Vrana*
> >> > *Strategic Partnerships*
> >> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >> > +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6773
> >> > [hidden email]
> >> >
> >> > *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share in
> >> the
> >> > sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Donate.
> >> > <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> >> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> >> New messages to: [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> >> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

Lucas Teles-2
Yeah, I am definitely watching users that violate any Wikimedia project and
I talk about it with other users publicly. What should be done different?
Should we let this users go and ignore they are violating important rules?
I will be paying atention to suggestions. And trying to do something
different is the reason I created this thread. I am pretty sure that the
regular measures won't be enough. I would never blame regular editors
though. That would be too much easy and counterproductive.

Yeah, Wikipedia Zero is a good thing. That goes without saying. And I am
not saying that because I expect something in return from the users of
Wikipedia Zero. I actually don't think many of them will improve wiki as
they use cellphones to edit and there is not yet an app for easily editing.
Other than reading, doing anything else on cellphone is too much painful.
The best thing of WP Zero is that it *provides* information for too many
people in need.

Teles

Em quinta-feira, 24 de março de 2016, Gerard Meijssen <
[hidden email]> escreveu:

> Hoi,
> So what are you saying? It is ok for people to do dastardly things and
> abuse Commons and it is even worse when people at Commons use the
> environment they know, the Internet, to do some research and expose what
> they find?
>
> Really? And I must be impressed when Mr Kolbe asks attention for it??
> Because what! It a Dutch proverb the best sailors are ashore. The same can
> be said by Mr Kolbe who is proficient in telling other people what to do
> and why he objects. That is his prerogative as it is mine to be
> underwhelmed.
>
> Be serious. When issues arise, we may work towards an understanding and a
> solution and sometimes hands get dirty. I will always support people who
> actually make a meaningful difference over people who cannot be faulted.
> Mistakes are made and when that is a problem go elsewhere. When there is a
> meaningful discussion anything is on the cards. So far this is not one.
> Thanks,
>        GerarddM
>
> On 24 March 2016 at 09:04, David Emrany <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > Dear Gerard
> >
> > Correspondingly, what I find unconscionable for us is that a small
> > group of Commons editors /admins congregated on the talk page of
> > 'Teles' and discussed how to secretly spy on these new Zeropaid
> > enabled editors and monitor their Facebook-basic pages [1], [2].
> >
> > IMO had this been more widely discussed at Commons seeking solutions,
> > we would not be seeing unfortunate news articles like the one Andreas
> > Kolbe has linked to
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATeles&type=revision&diff=168565809&oldid=168565337&uselang=en
> >
> > [2]
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case&oldid=168514640
> >
> > On 3/20/16, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email] <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > > Hoi,
> > > Realistically. Wikipedia is very much an enabler.
> > >
> > > Your ease to consider "simply" disabling mobile edits or uploads I find
> > > appalling. People in countries like USA or UK are very fortunate.
> Nobody
> > > would ever argue to disable their edits or uploads. At the same time
> as a
> > > movement we desperately need more and more diverse involvement. While
> you
> > > may say what you want, it is unconscionable for us to do as you suggest
> > as
> > > it is fully contrary to what we aim to achieve.
> > >
> > > What we are experiencing is a bump in the road. We have to deal with it
> > but
> > > throwing the baby with the washing water? REALLY !!
> > > Thanks,
> > >       GerardM
> > >
> > > On 19 March 2016 at 15:03, David Emrany <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Hi Adele
> > >>
> > >> Can we have a clear picture of Wikimedia's ‘complicated’ relationship
> > >> with net neutrality - 1year on from the Washington Post story [1]
> > >>
> > >> Can we also have specific figures on how much of WMF's traffic has
> > >> been lost / gained from key markets in Latin America and Asia after
> > >> regulators have blocked zeropaid schemes due to local concerns.
> > >>
> > >> WMF's "complicated" stance has also turned off many like-minded
> > >> support groups who stand for pure net neutrality - and not WMF's or
> > >> Facebook's ersatz versions [2]
> > >>
> > >> Lastly, if the primary aim of Wikipedia Zero is to gain readership,
> > >> why not simply disable all mobile edits / uploads from these accounts.
> > >>
> > >> David
> > >>
> > >> [1]
> > >>
> >
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/
> > >>
> > >> [2]
> > >>
> >
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-protecting-the-internet/
> > >>
> > >> On 3/19/16, Adele Vrana <[hidden email] <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >> > Hi Teles,
> > >> >
> > >> > As the head of the Wikipedia Zero program, I would like to respond
> and
> > >> > provide more context to the important challenges you are bringing
> up.
> > >> >
> > >> > Last year, the Foundation increased our security and privacy by
> > >> > requiring
> > >> > HTTPS to access all Wikimedia projects. That change has greatly
> > impacted
> > >> > the Wikipedia Zero program, and most importantly has also allowed
> > >> > editing
> > >> > (and not only reading) and extended the scope of zero-rated access
> > from
> > >> > just Wikipedia to all Wikimedia projects. However, our banners do
> not
> > >> > reflect this additional zero-rating, but still only appear on
> > Wikipedia.
> > >> >
> > >> > In your message you highlight two main concerns. One would be the
> > upload
> > >> of
> > >> > copyrighted materials and overall abuse on Commons. The other
> concern
> > >> > regards how the editing community should deal with an influx of new
> > good
> > >> > faith edits and potential editors in Portuguese, with particular
> > >> challenge
> > >> > of the extra work this causes for existing community members.
> > >> >
> > >> > Regarding Commons, we have experienced abuse from a few subscribers
> > of a
> > >> > Zero partner in Angola. Typically what happens is that the pirates
> > >> > upload
> > >> > copyrighted movies to Commons either directly or in a concealed form
> > >> (like
> > >> > huge/split PDFs or JPEGs). Then they promote the links on Facebook
> or
> > a
> > >> > similar public forum for others to download. When partners become
> > aware
> > >> of
> > >> > this they have flagged it to us and we've, in turn, flagged it to
> > >> Community
> > >> > Engagement who has worked with editors to try and make sure it's
> > >> > removed.
> > >> >
> > >> > We agree that this is not an ideal way to handle this problem, and
> we
> > >> would
> > >> > prefer to catch it much earlier or simply prevent it outright
> (without
> > >> > significant limits being placed on good faith editors). Last fall,
> we
> > >> > had
> > >> > internal discussions on finding technical solutions for this
> problem.
> > >> > However, we discovered that we could not widely identify traffic
> from
> > >> zero
> > >> > rated partners, and that ability was a prerequisite to address this
> > >> issue.
> > >> > As of December 2015, the Ops team was able to complete that work.
> > >> >
> > >> > With this task completed, our team, in coordination with community
> > >> > engagement and engineering is working on finding the best approach
> to
> > >> > resolve this issue. Do you have suggestions or guidance? We are
> eager
> > to
> > >> > examine multiple approaches and this is a great time to open the
> > >> > discussion. As we evaluate different approaches, we can also update
> > you
> > >> and
> > >> > the list here.
> > >> >
> > >> > On the editing topic, the primary goal of Wikipedia Zero is to
> > increase
> > >> > readership. This is measured in potential reach (through subscriber
> > >> counts)
> > >> > and pageviews within regions with Wikipedia Zero partnerships.
> > There’s
> > >> not
> > >> > enough information to show that Zero can also increase editorship,
> but
> > >> > it
> > >> > is something we believe is furthered by expanding reading access. So
> > if
> > >> > that is what is happening in Angola, we see that is a great thing.
> > >> >
> > >> > However, we understand that it’s challenging for our existing
> editing
> > >> > community to handle a sudden influx of new editors. This seems to
> be a
> > >> > crucial and important conversation for the movement at large to
> have.
> > I
> > >> > hope we can figure out a way to turn this moment in Angola into an
> > >> > opportunity to learn how to deal with new readers and editors.
> > >> >
> > >> > Best regards,
> > >> > Adele
> > >> >
> > >> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> some of the issue stems form the copyright laws of Angola, which
> are
> > >> >> really
> > >> >> interesting to read -- read them in english --
> > >> >> https://www.copyright-watch.org/files/Angola.pdf  of course I dont
> > >> expect
> > >> >> people to know their copyright laws in detail or to have read them
> > but
> > >> >> they
> > >> >> do know the principles of it and what they can do
> > >> >>
> > >> >> some points of interest
> > >> >>
> > >> >>    - Non protected works Article  9 section c -- news of the day
> > >> published
> > >> >>    by the press or broadcast
> > >> >>    - Chapter IV Uses lawful without Authorisation article 29
> section
> > b
> > >> >> -
> > >> >>    reproduction by photographic process or process analogous to
> > >> >> photographic
> > >> >>    process by <snip> documentation centres <snip> or teaching
> > >> >> organisations
> > >> >>    ..... refers to minimum amount of copies necessary, but wither
> way
> > >> >>    Wikipedia would fall into either of these definitions as
> permitted
> > >> >> to
> > >> >>    reproduce
> > >> >>    - article 30 - is the key here it enables translation into
> > >> >> Portuguese
> > >> >>    after 3 years without any real restrictions - hence why the
> > pt.wikis
> > >> >> are
> > >> >>    having so much of an issue and by extension commons where they
> > >> >> encourage
> > >> >>    uploading of media
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Wikipedia zero implementation needs to also consider the
> implication
> > of
> > >> >> local laws especially copyright on the projects where the laws are
> > this
> > >> >> outdated and effectively enable copyright issues then WP Zero could
> > >> >> provide
> > >> >> a read only option for IP's or a no upload option,  with a rights
> > >> request
> > >> >> process on commons
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On 19 March 2016 at 00:45, Lucas Teles <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > Hi, everyone.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > It is being recently reported on Portuguese Wikipedia and Commons
> > (at
> > >> >> > least) the increasing ammount of improper editing coming from IP
> > >> >> addresses
> > >> >> > located in Angola. Some users believe that this may be related
> with
> > >> >> > Wikipedia Zero and a partnership between WMF and a cellphone
> > company
> > >> [1]
> > >> >> > that allows reading and editing at free cost.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > One of the first reactions to that is a large range block that
> was
> > >> just
> > >> >> set
> > >> >> > on Commons in order to prevent these edits [2], as they are being
> > >> >> > done
> > >> >> in a
> > >> >> > way that volunteers can't handle.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > That seems to be some kind of "second wave" as the first that hit
> > >> >> > Commons
> > >> >> > [3] had been already reported months ago [4] and seemed to be
> > >> controled
> > >> >> or
> > >> >> > just paused for a while. On Portuguese Wikipedia, one thing that
> > >> seemss
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> > be clear is that edits are done in good faith. However, they end
> by
> > >> >> > being
> > >> >> > undone as they are incorrect for some reason, whether being pages
> > of
> > >> >> files
> > >> >> > about themselves or just test edits. One of the users identified
> > >> >> > actually
> > >> >> > confirm [5] that he is editing through Wikipedia Zero.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Concerning that more partnerships may occur in future, I think it
> > is
> > >> >> > time
> > >> >> > for us to start talking about ways of dealing with that, other
> than
> > >> >> > blocking. Sadly, I don't have an answer to that problem, but I
> tend
> > >> >> > to
> > >> >> > believe that some way of mass reaching these potential users
> should
> > >> >> > be
> > >> >> made
> > >> >> > out.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > The current process is that editors will be the ones to notice
> that
> > >> (as
> > >> >> > I
> > >> >> > am not aware of any kind of follow up by WMF on that) and they
> will
> > >> try
> > >> >> to
> > >> >> > solve their way, which may cause too many collateral damage.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > I wonder if there is any kind of way to diminish the problem, by
> > >> >> > using
> > >> >> any
> > >> >> > off-wiki strategy.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Kind regards.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > Teles
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > [1] -
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >>
> >
> http://www.telecompaper.com/news/movicel-offers-free-access-to-wikipedia--1116012
> > >> >> > [2] -
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >>
> >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steinsplitter&oldid=190598884#Unblock
> > >> >> > [3] -
> > >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case
> > >> >> > [4] -
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >>
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=12835750#Wikipedia_Zero_being_used_to_violate_copyright
> > >> >> > [5] -
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >>
> > >>
> >
> https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Darwinius&diff=prev&oldid=45095087
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > *Lucas Teles*
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > *+55 (71) 98290 7553Steward at Wikimedia Foundation.
> Administrator
> > *
> > >> >> > *at Portuguese Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons.*-
> wikipedista.com
> > >> >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> >> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > >> >> > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > >> ,
> > >> >> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> GN.
> > >> >> President Wikimedia Australia
> > >> >> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > >> >> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
> > >> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> >> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > >> >> Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > >> >> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > *Adele Vrana*
> > >> > *Strategic Partnerships*
> > >> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > >> > +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6773
> > >> > [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > >> >
> > >> > *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share
> in
> > >> the
> > >> > sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Donate.
> > >> > <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > >> > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> > ,
> > >> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > >> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
> ,
> > >> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
> ?subject=unsubscribe>



--
Steward for Wikimedia Foundation. Administrator at Portuguese Wikipedia and
Wikimedia Commons.
Sent from mobile. Please, excuse my brevity.

+55 (71) 98290-7553
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

David Emrany
Dear Teles

I am exercising my right of reply, anticipating that.a list mod may
censor it or delay it till it is infructuous

You are imposing "modern" 1st world standards on these poor people.
Many I remind you to remember how many 1st world Commons bureaucrats
and admins were doing something similar / identical [1] only a few
years ago at Commons.Do we collectively recall how many years.it took
to ban them and delete their files ?

So give these Angolans time and respectfully equitably treat them as
unequals when you deal with them.

Dave

[1] http://www.britannica.com/topic/Wikipedia
" .. in 2010 it was revealed that there was a cache of pornographic
images, including illegal depictions of sexual acts involving
children, on Wikimedia Commons, a site maintained by the Wikimedia
Foundation that served as a repository of media files for use in all
Wikimedia products."

On 3/26/16, Lucas Teles <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yeah, I am definitely watching users that violate any Wikimedia project and
> I talk about it with other users publicly. What should be done different?
> Should we let this users go and ignore they are violating important rules?
> I will be paying atention to suggestions. And trying to do something
> different is the reason I created this thread. I am pretty sure that the
> regular measures won't be enough. I would never blame regular editors
> though. That would be too much easy and counterproductive.
>
> Yeah, Wikipedia Zero is a good thing. That goes without saying. And I am
> not saying that because I expect something in return from the users of
> Wikipedia Zero. I actually don't think many of them will improve wiki as
> they use cellphones to edit and there is not yet an app for easily editing.
> Other than reading, doing anything else on cellphone is too much painful.
> The best thing of WP Zero is that it *provides* information for too many
> people in need.
>
> Teles
>
> Em quinta-feira, 24 de março de 2016, Gerard Meijssen <
> [hidden email]> escreveu:
>
>> Hoi,
>> So what are you saying? It is ok for people to do dastardly things and
>> abuse Commons and it is even worse when people at Commons use the
>> environment they know, the Internet, to do some research and expose what
>> they find?
>>
>> Really? And I must be impressed when Mr Kolbe asks attention for it??
>> Because what! It a Dutch proverb the best sailors are ashore. The same can
>> be said by Mr Kolbe who is proficient in telling other people what to do
>> and why he objects. That is his prerogative as it is mine to be
>> underwhelmed.
>>
>> Be serious. When issues arise, we may work towards an understanding and a
>> solution and sometimes hands get dirty. I will always support people who
>> actually make a meaningful difference over people who cannot be faulted.
>> Mistakes are made and when that is a problem go elsewhere. When there is a
>> meaningful discussion anything is on the cards. So far this is not one.
>> Thanks,
>>        GerarddM
>>
>> On 24 March 2016 at 09:04, David Emrany <[hidden email]
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Gerard
>> >
>> > Correspondingly, what I find unconscionable for us is that a small
>> > group of Commons editors /admins congregated on the talk page of
>> > 'Teles' and discussed how to secretly spy on these new Zeropaid
>> > enabled editors and monitor their Facebook-basic pages [1], [2].
>> >
>> > IMO had this been more widely discussed at Commons seeking solutions,
>> > we would not be seeing unfortunate news articles like the one Andreas
>> > Kolbe has linked to
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > [1]
>> >
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATeles&type=revision&diff=168565809&oldid=168565337&uselang=en
>> >
>> > [2]
>> >
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case&oldid=168514640
>> >
>> > On 3/20/16, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email] <javascript:;>>
>> wrote:
>> > > Hoi,
>> > > Realistically. Wikipedia is very much an enabler.
>> > >
>> > > Your ease to consider "simply" disabling mobile edits or uploads I
>> > > find
>> > > appalling. People in countries like USA or UK are very fortunate.
>> Nobody
>> > > would ever argue to disable their edits or uploads. At the same time
>> as a
>> > > movement we desperately need more and more diverse involvement. While
>> you
>> > > may say what you want, it is unconscionable for us to do as you
>> > > suggest
>> > as
>> > > it is fully contrary to what we aim to achieve.
>> > >
>> > > What we are experiencing is a bump in the road. We have to deal with
>> > > it
>> > but
>> > > throwing the baby with the washing water? REALLY !!
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >       GerardM
>> > >
>> > > On 19 March 2016 at 15:03, David Emrany <[hidden email]
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hi Adele
>> > >>
>> > >> Can we have a clear picture of Wikimedia's ‘complicated’ relationship
>> > >> with net neutrality - 1year on from the Washington Post story [1]
>> > >>
>> > >> Can we also have specific figures on how much of WMF's traffic has
>> > >> been lost / gained from key markets in Latin America and Asia after
>> > >> regulators have blocked zeropaid schemes due to local concerns.
>> > >>
>> > >> WMF's "complicated" stance has also turned off many like-minded
>> > >> support groups who stand for pure net neutrality - and not WMF's or
>> > >> Facebook's ersatz versions [2]
>> > >>
>> > >> Lastly, if the primary aim of Wikipedia Zero is to gain readership,
>> > >> why not simply disable all mobile edits / uploads from these
>> > >> accounts.
>> > >>
>> > >> David
>> > >>
>> > >> [1]
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/
>> > >>
>> > >> [2]
>> > >>
>> >
>> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-protecting-the-internet/
>> > >>
>> > >> On 3/19/16, Adele Vrana <[hidden email] <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> > >> > Hi Teles,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > As the head of the Wikipedia Zero program, I would like to respond
>> and
>> > >> > provide more context to the important challenges you are bringing
>> up.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Last year, the Foundation increased our security and privacy by
>> > >> > requiring
>> > >> > HTTPS to access all Wikimedia projects. That change has greatly
>> > impacted
>> > >> > the Wikipedia Zero program, and most importantly has also allowed
>> > >> > editing
>> > >> > (and not only reading) and extended the scope of zero-rated access
>> > from
>> > >> > just Wikipedia to all Wikimedia projects. However, our banners do
>> not
>> > >> > reflect this additional zero-rating, but still only appear on
>> > Wikipedia.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > In your message you highlight two main concerns. One would be the
>> > upload
>> > >> of
>> > >> > copyrighted materials and overall abuse on Commons. The other
>> concern
>> > >> > regards how the editing community should deal with an influx of new
>> > good
>> > >> > faith edits and potential editors in Portuguese, with particular
>> > >> challenge
>> > >> > of the extra work this causes for existing community members.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Regarding Commons, we have experienced abuse from a few subscribers
>> > of a
>> > >> > Zero partner in Angola. Typically what happens is that the pirates
>> > >> > upload
>> > >> > copyrighted movies to Commons either directly or in a concealed
>> > >> > form
>> > >> (like
>> > >> > huge/split PDFs or JPEGs). Then they promote the links on Facebook
>> or
>> > a
>> > >> > similar public forum for others to download. When partners become
>> > aware
>> > >> of
>> > >> > this they have flagged it to us and we've, in turn, flagged it to
>> > >> Community
>> > >> > Engagement who has worked with editors to try and make sure it's
>> > >> > removed.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > We agree that this is not an ideal way to handle this problem, and
>> we
>> > >> would
>> > >> > prefer to catch it much earlier or simply prevent it outright
>> (without
>> > >> > significant limits being placed on good faith editors). Last fall,
>> we
>> > >> > had
>> > >> > internal discussions on finding technical solutions for this
>> problem.
>> > >> > However, we discovered that we could not widely identify traffic
>> from
>> > >> zero
>> > >> > rated partners, and that ability was a prerequisite to address this
>> > >> issue.
>> > >> > As of December 2015, the Ops team was able to complete that work.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > With this task completed, our team, in coordination with community
>> > >> > engagement and engineering is working on finding the best approach
>> to
>> > >> > resolve this issue. Do you have suggestions or guidance? We are
>> eager
>> > to
>> > >> > examine multiple approaches and this is a great time to open the
>> > >> > discussion. As we evaluate different approaches, we can also update
>> > you
>> > >> and
>> > >> > the list here.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On the editing topic, the primary goal of Wikipedia Zero is to
>> > increase
>> > >> > readership. This is measured in potential reach (through subscriber
>> > >> counts)
>> > >> > and pageviews within regions with Wikipedia Zero partnerships.
>> > There’s
>> > >> not
>> > >> > enough information to show that Zero can also increase editorship,
>> but
>> > >> > it
>> > >> > is something we believe is furthered by expanding reading access.
>> > >> > So
>> > if
>> > >> > that is what is happening in Angola, we see that is a great thing.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > However, we understand that it’s challenging for our existing
>> editing
>> > >> > community to handle a sudden influx of new editors. This seems to
>> be a
>> > >> > crucial and important conversation for the movement at large to
>> have.
>> > I
>> > >> > hope we can figure out a way to turn this moment in Angola into an
>> > >> > opportunity to learn how to deal with new readers and editors.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Best regards,
>> > >> > Adele
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]
>> <javascript:;>>
>> > wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> some of the issue stems form the copyright laws of Angola, which
>> are
>> > >> >> really
>> > >> >> interesting to read -- read them in english --
>> > >> >> https://www.copyright-watch.org/files/Angola.pdf  of course I dont
>> > >> expect
>> > >> >> people to know their copyright laws in detail or to have read them
>> > but
>> > >> >> they
>> > >> >> do know the principles of it and what they can do
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> some points of interest
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>    - Non protected works Article  9 section c -- news of the day
>> > >> published
>> > >> >>    by the press or broadcast
>> > >> >>    - Chapter IV Uses lawful without Authorisation article 29
>> section
>> > b
>> > >> >> -
>> > >> >>    reproduction by photographic process or process analogous to
>> > >> >> photographic
>> > >> >>    process by <snip> documentation centres <snip> or teaching
>> > >> >> organisations
>> > >> >>    ..... refers to minimum amount of copies necessary, but wither
>> way
>> > >> >>    Wikipedia would fall into either of these definitions as
>> permitted
>> > >> >> to
>> > >> >>    reproduce
>> > >> >>    - article 30 - is the key here it enables translation into
>> > >> >> Portuguese
>> > >> >>    after 3 years without any real restrictions - hence why the
>> > pt.wikis
>> > >> >> are
>> > >> >>    having so much of an issue and by extension commons where they
>> > >> >> encourage
>> > >> >>    uploading of media
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> Wikipedia zero implementation needs to also consider the
>> implication
>> > of
>> > >> >> local laws especially copyright on the projects where the laws are
>> > this
>> > >> >> outdated and effectively enable copyright issues then WP Zero
>> > >> >> could
>> > >> >> provide
>> > >> >> a read only option for IP's or a no upload option,  with a rights
>> > >> request
>> > >> >> process on commons
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> On 19 March 2016 at 00:45, Lucas Teles <[hidden email]
>> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> > Hi, everyone.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > It is being recently reported on Portuguese Wikipedia and
>> > >> >> > Commons
>> > (at
>> > >> >> > least) the increasing ammount of improper editing coming from IP
>> > >> >> addresses
>> > >> >> > located in Angola. Some users believe that this may be related
>> with
>> > >> >> > Wikipedia Zero and a partnership between WMF and a cellphone
>> > company
>> > >> [1]
>> > >> >> > that allows reading and editing at free cost.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > One of the first reactions to that is a large range block that
>> was
>> > >> just
>> > >> >> set
>> > >> >> > on Commons in order to prevent these edits [2], as they are
>> > >> >> > being
>> > >> >> > done
>> > >> >> in a
>> > >> >> > way that volunteers can't handle.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > That seems to be some kind of "second wave" as the first that
>> > >> >> > hit
>> > >> >> > Commons
>> > >> >> > [3] had been already reported months ago [4] and seemed to be
>> > >> controled
>> > >> >> or
>> > >> >> > just paused for a while. On Portuguese Wikipedia, one thing that
>> > >> seemss
>> > >> >> to
>> > >> >> > be clear is that edits are done in good faith. However, they end
>> by
>> > >> >> > being
>> > >> >> > undone as they are incorrect for some reason, whether being
>> > >> >> > pages
>> > of
>> > >> >> files
>> > >> >> > about themselves or just test edits. One of the users identified
>> > >> >> > actually
>> > >> >> > confirm [5] that he is editing through Wikipedia Zero.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > Concerning that more partnerships may occur in future, I think
>> > >> >> > it
>> > is
>> > >> >> > time
>> > >> >> > for us to start talking about ways of dealing with that, other
>> than
>> > >> >> > blocking. Sadly, I don't have an answer to that problem, but I
>> tend
>> > >> >> > to
>> > >> >> > believe that some way of mass reaching these potential users
>> should
>> > >> >> > be
>> > >> >> made
>> > >> >> > out.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > The current process is that editors will be the ones to notice
>> that
>> > >> (as
>> > >> >> > I
>> > >> >> > am not aware of any kind of follow up by WMF on that) and they
>> will
>> > >> try
>> > >> >> to
>> > >> >> > solve their way, which may cause too many collateral damage.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > I wonder if there is any kind of way to diminish the problem, by
>> > >> >> > using
>> > >> >> any
>> > >> >> > off-wiki strategy.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > Kind regards.
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > Teles
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > [1] -
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> http://www.telecompaper.com/news/movicel-offers-free-access-to-wikipedia--1116012
>> > >> >> > [2] -
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steinsplitter&oldid=190598884#Unblock
>> > >> >> > [3] -
>> > >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case
>> > >> >> > [4] -
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=12835750#Wikipedia_Zero_being_used_to_violate_copyright
>> > >> >> > [5] -
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Darwinius&diff=prev&oldid=45095087
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > *Lucas Teles*
>> > >> >> >
>> > >> >> > *+55 (71) 98290 7553Steward at Wikimedia Foundation.
>> Administrator
>> > *
>> > >> >> > *at Portuguese Wikipedia and Wikimedia Commons.*-
>> wikipedista.com
>> > >> >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > >> >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > >> >> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> > >> >> > Unsubscribe:
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> > >> ,
>> > >> >> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >> --
>> > >> >> GN.
>> > >> >> President Wikimedia Australia
>> > >> >> WMAU: http://www.wikimedia.org.au/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> > >> >> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>> > >> >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > >> >> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> > >> >> Unsubscribe:
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > >> >> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> ?subject=unsubscribe>
>> > >> >>
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > --
>> > >> > *Adele Vrana*
>> > >> > *Strategic Partnerships*
>> > >> > Wikimedia Foundation
>> > >> > +1 (415) 839-6885 ext. 6773
>> > >> > [hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> > >> >
>> > >> > *Imagine a world in which every single human being can freely share
>> in
>> > >> the
>> > >> > sum of all knowledge. That's our commitment. Donate.
>> > >> > <https://donate.wikimedia.org/>*
>> > >> > _______________________________________________
>> > >> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > >> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > >> > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> > >> > Unsubscribe:
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> > ,
>> > >> > <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> ?subject=unsubscribe>
>> > >>
>> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > >> New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> > >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>> ,
>> > >> <mailto:[hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> ?subject=unsubscribe>
>> > >>
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> > > New messages to: [hidden email] <javascript:;>
>> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
> --
> Steward for Wikimedia Foundation. Administrator at Portuguese Wikipedia and
> Wikimedia Commons.
> Sent from mobile. Please, excuse my brevity.
>
> +55 (71) 98290-7553
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

Bodhisattwa Mandal
Hi,

Angola is not alone. Bangladesh also started the practice. :-P Now there is
a good number of Facebook groups and pages to do this kind of piracy
related works through Commons.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/Bangladesh_Facebook_Case

They are even creating manuals in different Facebook groups on how to
download movies even if get blocked by admins.
*
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1683585148563391/permalink/1695000264088546/
*
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1173773462655208&id=1036981463001076

Phabricator link to deal with this -
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T129845

Regards,
Bodhisattwa

On 28 March 2016 at 03:30, David Emrany <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Dear Teles
>
> I am exercising my right of reply, anticipating that.a list mod may
> censor it or delay it till it is infructuous
>
> You are imposing "modern" 1st world standards on these poor people.
> Many I remind you to remember how many 1st world Commons bureaucrats
> and admins were doing something similar / identical [1] only a few
> years ago at Commons.Do we collectively recall how many years.it took
> to ban them and delete their files ?
>
> So give these Angolans time and respectfully equitably treat them as
> unequals when you deal with them.
>
> Dave
>
> [1] http://www.britannica.com/topic/Wikipedia
> " .. in 2010 it was revealed that there was a cache of pornographic
> images, including illegal depictions of sexual acts involving
> children, on Wikimedia Commons, a site maintained by the Wikimedia
> Foundation that served as a repository of media files for use in all
> Wikimedia products."
>
> On 3/26/16, Lucas Teles <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Yeah, I am definitely watching users that violate any Wikimedia project
> and
> > I talk about it with other users publicly. What should be done different?
> > Should we let this users go and ignore they are violating important
> rules?
> > I will be paying atention to suggestions. And trying to do something
> > different is the reason I created this thread. I am pretty sure that the
> > regular measures won't be enough. I would never blame regular editors
> > though. That would be too much easy and counterproductive.
> >
> > Yeah, Wikipedia Zero is a good thing. That goes without saying. And I am
> > not saying that because I expect something in return from the users of
> > Wikipedia Zero. I actually don't think many of them will improve wiki as
> > they use cellphones to edit and there is not yet an app for easily
> editing.
> > Other than reading, doing anything else on cellphone is too much painful.
> > The best thing of WP Zero is that it *provides* information for too many
> > people in need.
> >
> > Teles
> >
> > Em quinta-feira, 24 de março de 2016, Gerard Meijssen <
> > [hidden email]> escreveu:
> >
> >> Hoi,
> >> So what are you saying? It is ok for people to do dastardly things and
> >> abuse Commons and it is even worse when people at Commons use the
> >> environment they know, the Internet, to do some research and expose what
> >> they find?
> >>
> >> Really? And I must be impressed when Mr Kolbe asks attention for it??
> >> Because what! It a Dutch proverb the best sailors are ashore. The same
> can
> >> be said by Mr Kolbe who is proficient in telling other people what to do
> >> and why he objects. That is his prerogative as it is mine to be
> >> underwhelmed.
> >>
> >> Be serious. When issues arise, we may work towards an understanding and
> a
> >> solution and sometimes hands get dirty. I will always support people who
> >> actually make a meaningful difference over people who cannot be faulted.
> >> Mistakes are made and when that is a problem go elsewhere. When there
> is a
> >> meaningful discussion anything is on the cards. So far this is not one.
> >> Thanks,
> >>        GerarddM
> >>
> >> On 24 March 2016 at 09:04, David Emrany <[hidden email]
> >> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Dear Gerard
> >> >
> >> > Correspondingly, what I find unconscionable for us is that a small
> >> > group of Commons editors /admins congregated on the talk page of
> >> > 'Teles' and discussed how to secretly spy on these new Zeropaid
> >> > enabled editors and monitor their Facebook-basic pages [1], [2].
> >> >
> >> > IMO had this been more widely discussed at Commons seeking solutions,
> >> > we would not be seeing unfortunate news articles like the one Andreas
> >> > Kolbe has linked to
> >> >
> >> > Regards
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> >
> >> > [1]
> >> >
> >>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATeles&type=revision&diff=168565809&oldid=168565337&uselang=en
> >> >
> >> > [2]
> >> >
> >>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case&oldid=168514640
> >> >
> >> > On 3/20/16, Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> >> wrote:
> >> > > Hoi,
> >> > > Realistically. Wikipedia is very much an enabler.
> >> > >
> >> > > Your ease to consider "simply" disabling mobile edits or uploads I
> >> > > find
> >> > > appalling. People in countries like USA or UK are very fortunate.
> >> Nobody
> >> > > would ever argue to disable their edits or uploads. At the same time
> >> as a
> >> > > movement we desperately need more and more diverse involvement.
> While
> >> you
> >> > > may say what you want, it is unconscionable for us to do as you
> >> > > suggest
> >> > as
> >> > > it is fully contrary to what we aim to achieve.
> >> > >
> >> > > What we are experiencing is a bump in the road. We have to deal with
> >> > > it
> >> > but
> >> > > throwing the baby with the washing water? REALLY !!
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > >       GerardM
> >> > >
> >> > > On 19 March 2016 at 15:03, David Emrany <[hidden email]
> >> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > >> Hi Adele
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Can we have a clear picture of Wikimedia's ‘complicated’
> relationship
> >> > >> with net neutrality - 1year on from the Washington Post story [1]
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Can we also have specific figures on how much of WMF's traffic has
> >> > >> been lost / gained from key markets in Latin America and Asia after
> >> > >> regulators have blocked zeropaid schemes due to local concerns.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> WMF's "complicated" stance has also turned off many like-minded
> >> > >> support groups who stand for pure net neutrality - and not WMF's or
> >> > >> Facebook's ersatz versions [2]
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Lastly, if the primary aim of Wikipedia Zero is to gain readership,
> >> > >> why not simply disable all mobile edits / uploads from these
> >> > >> accounts.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> David
> >> > >>
> >> > >> [1]
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2014/11/25/wikipedias-complicated-relationship-with-net-neutrality/
> >> > >>
> >> > >> [2]
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> https://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/08/01/wikipedia-zero-and-net-neutrality-protecting-the-internet/
> >> > >>
> >> > >> On 3/19/16, Adele Vrana <[hidden email] <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> >> > >> > Hi Teles,
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > As the head of the Wikipedia Zero program, I would like to
> respond
> >> and
> >> > >> > provide more context to the important challenges you are bringing
> >> up.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Last year, the Foundation increased our security and privacy by
> >> > >> > requiring
> >> > >> > HTTPS to access all Wikimedia projects. That change has greatly
> >> > impacted
> >> > >> > the Wikipedia Zero program, and most importantly has also allowed
> >> > >> > editing
> >> > >> > (and not only reading) and extended the scope of zero-rated
> access
> >> > from
> >> > >> > just Wikipedia to all Wikimedia projects. However, our banners do
> >> not
> >> > >> > reflect this additional zero-rating, but still only appear on
> >> > Wikipedia.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > In your message you highlight two main concerns. One would be the
> >> > upload
> >> > >> of
> >> > >> > copyrighted materials and overall abuse on Commons. The other
> >> concern
> >> > >> > regards how the editing community should deal with an influx of
> new
> >> > good
> >> > >> > faith edits and potential editors in Portuguese, with particular
> >> > >> challenge
> >> > >> > of the extra work this causes for existing community members.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Regarding Commons, we have experienced abuse from a few
> subscribers
> >> > of a
> >> > >> > Zero partner in Angola. Typically what happens is that the
> pirates
> >> > >> > upload
> >> > >> > copyrighted movies to Commons either directly or in a concealed
> >> > >> > form
> >> > >> (like
> >> > >> > huge/split PDFs or JPEGs). Then they promote the links on
> Facebook
> >> or
> >> > a
> >> > >> > similar public forum for others to download. When partners become
> >> > aware
> >> > >> of
> >> > >> > this they have flagged it to us and we've, in turn, flagged it to
> >> > >> Community
> >> > >> > Engagement who has worked with editors to try and make sure it's
> >> > >> > removed.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > We agree that this is not an ideal way to handle this problem,
> and
> >> we
> >> > >> would
> >> > >> > prefer to catch it much earlier or simply prevent it outright
> >> (without
> >> > >> > significant limits being placed on good faith editors). Last
> fall,
> >> we
> >> > >> > had
> >> > >> > internal discussions on finding technical solutions for this
> >> problem.
> >> > >> > However, we discovered that we could not widely identify traffic
> >> from
> >> > >> zero
> >> > >> > rated partners, and that ability was a prerequisite to address
> this
> >> > >> issue.
> >> > >> > As of December 2015, the Ops team was able to complete that work.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > With this task completed, our team, in coordination with
> community
> >> > >> > engagement and engineering is working on finding the best
> approach
> >> to
> >> > >> > resolve this issue. Do you have suggestions or guidance? We are
> >> eager
> >> > to
> >> > >> > examine multiple approaches and this is a great time to open the
> >> > >> > discussion. As we evaluate different approaches, we can also
> update
> >> > you
> >> > >> and
> >> > >> > the list here.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > On the editing topic, the primary goal of Wikipedia Zero is to
> >> > increase
> >> > >> > readership. This is measured in potential reach (through
> subscriber
> >> > >> counts)
> >> > >> > and pageviews within regions with Wikipedia Zero partnerships.
> >> > There’s
> >> > >> not
> >> > >> > enough information to show that Zero can also increase
> editorship,
> >> but
> >> > >> > it
> >> > >> > is something we believe is furthered by expanding reading access.
> >> > >> > So
> >> > if
> >> > >> > that is what is happening in Angola, we see that is a great
> thing.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > However, we understand that it’s challenging for our existing
> >> editing
> >> > >> > community to handle a sudden influx of new editors. This seems to
> >> be a
> >> > >> > crucial and important conversation for the movement at large to
> >> have.
> >> > I
> >> > >> > hope we can figure out a way to turn this moment in Angola into
> an
> >> > >> > opportunity to learn how to deal with new readers and editors.
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > Best regards,
> >> > >> > Adele
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> > On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Gnangarra <[hidden email]
> >> <javascript:;>>
> >> > wrote:
> >> > >> >
> >> > >> >> some of the issue stems form the copyright laws of Angola, which
> >> are
> >> > >> >> really
> >> > >> >> interesting to read -- read them in english --
> >> > >> >> https://www.copyright-watch.org/files/Angola.pdf  of course I
> dont
> >> > >> expect
> >> > >> >> people to know their copyright laws in detail or to have read
> them
> >> > but
> >> > >> >> they
> >> > >> >> do know the principles of it and what they can do
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> some points of interest
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>    - Non protected works Article  9 section c -- news of the day
> >> > >> published
> >> > >> >>    by the press or broadcast
> >> > >> >>    - Chapter IV Uses lawful without Authorisation article 29
> >> section
> >> > b
> >> > >> >> -
> >> > >> >>    reproduction by photographic process or process analogous to
> >> > >> >> photographic
> >> > >> >>    process by <snip> documentation centres <snip> or teaching
> >> > >> >> organisations
> >> > >> >>    ..... refers to minimum amount of copies necessary, but
> wither
> >> way
> >> > >> >>    Wikipedia would fall into either of these definitions as
> >> permitted
> >> > >> >> to
> >> > >> >>    reproduce
> >> > >> >>    - article 30 - is the key here it enables translation into
> >> > >> >> Portuguese
> >> > >> >>    after 3 years without any real restrictions - hence why the
> >> > pt.wikis
> >> > >> >> are
> >> > >> >>    having so much of an issue and by extension commons where
> they
> >> > >> >> encourage
> >> > >> >>    uploading of media
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> Wikipedia zero implementation needs to also consider the
> >> implication
> >> > of
> >> > >> >> local laws especially copyright on the projects where the laws
> are
> >> > this
> >> > >> >> outdated and effectively enable copyright issues then WP Zero
> >> > >> >> could
> >> > >> >> provide
> >> > >> >> a read only option for IP's or a no upload option,  with a
> rights
> >> > >> request
> >> > >> >> process on commons
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> On 19 March 2016 at 00:45, Lucas Teles <[hidden email]
> >> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >> >> > Hi, everyone.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > It is being recently reported on Portuguese Wikipedia and
> >> > >> >> > Commons
> >> > (at
> >> > >> >> > least) the increasing ammount of improper editing coming from
> IP
> >> > >> >> addresses
> >> > >> >> > located in Angola. Some users believe that this may be related
> >> with
> >> > >> >> > Wikipedia Zero and a partnership between WMF and a cellphone
> >> > company
> >> > >> [1]
> >> > >> >> > that allows reading and editing at free cost.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > One of the first reactions to that is a large range block that
> >> was
> >> > >> just
> >> > >> >> set
> >> > >> >> > on Commons in order to prevent these edits [2], as they are
> >> > >> >> > being
> >> > >> >> > done
> >> > >> >> in a
> >> > >> >> > way that volunteers can't handle.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > That seems to be some kind of "second wave" as the first that
> >> > >> >> > hit
> >> > >> >> > Commons
> >> > >> >> > [3] had been already reported months ago [4] and seemed to be
> >> > >> controled
> >> > >> >> or
> >> > >> >> > just paused for a while. On Portuguese Wikipedia, one thing
> that
> >> > >> seemss
> >> > >> >> to
> >> > >> >> > be clear is that edits are done in good faith. However, they
> end
> >> by
> >> > >> >> > being
> >> > >> >> > undone as they are incorrect for some reason, whether being
> >> > >> >> > pages
> >> > of
> >> > >> >> files
> >> > >> >> > about themselves or just test edits. One of the users
> identified
> >> > >> >> > actually
> >> > >> >> > confirm [5] that he is editing through Wikipedia Zero.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > Concerning that more partnerships may occur in future, I think
> >> > >> >> > it
> >> > is
> >> > >> >> > time
> >> > >> >> > for us to start talking about ways of dealing with that, other
> >> than
> >> > >> >> > blocking. Sadly, I don't have an answer to that problem, but I
> >> tend
> >> > >> >> > to
> >> > >> >> > believe that some way of mass reaching these potential users
> >> should
> >> > >> >> > be
> >> > >> >> made
> >> > >> >> > out.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > The current process is that editors will be the ones to notice
> >> that
> >> > >> (as
> >> > >> >> > I
> >> > >> >> > am not aware of any kind of follow up by WMF on that) and they
> >> will
> >> > >> try
> >> > >> >> to
> >> > >> >> > solve their way, which may cause too many collateral damage.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > I wonder if there is any kind of way to diminish the problem,
> by
> >> > >> >> > using
> >> > >> >> any
> >> > >> >> > off-wiki strategy.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > Kind regards.
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > Teles
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> > [1] -
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> http://www.telecompaper.com/news/movicel-offers-free-access-to-wikipedia--1116012
> >> > >> >> > [2] -
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Steinsplitter&oldid=190598884#Unblock
> >> > >> >> > [3] -
> >> > >> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Teles/Angola_Facebook_Case
> >> > >> >> > [4] -
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >>
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> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Forum&oldid=12835750#Wikipedia_Zero_being_used_to_violate_copyright
> >> > >> >> > [5] -
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >>
> >> > >>
> >> >
> >>
> https://pt.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Usu%C3%A1rio_Discuss%C3%A3o:Darwinius&diff=prev&oldid=45095087
> >> > >> >> >
> >> > >> >> >
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia Zero mass effect on Wikimedia projects

geni
In reply to this post by David Emrany
On 27 March 2016 at 23:00, David Emrany <[hidden email]> wrote:
> You are imposing "modern" 1st world standards on these poor people.
> Many I remind you to remember how many 1st world Commons bureaucrats
> and admins were doing something similar / identical [1] only a few
> years ago at Commons.Do we collectively recall how many years.it took
> to ban them and delete their files ?
>


Actually illegal stuff is vaporised as soon as it is found. Images
adult depicting nudity are not per se illegal are where they are
freely licensed and withing project scope they have not been deleted
and remain to this day. By the same token films under a free license
such as Tears of Steel are also not going to be removed from commons.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tears_of_Steel_in_4k_-_Official_Blender_Foundation_release.webm

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geni

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