[Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia was edited from the ISS

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[Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia was edited from the ISS

Yury Bulka
I'm sorry if this was already posted here, I may have missed it. But in case it was not:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia&diff=926638155&oldid=926632230

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_spacewalks_since_2015&diff=prev&oldid=926631603

I think this is truly amazing.

P.S. I was trying to find some additional sources besides this edit that
would provide more context for readers, and am currently discussing this
on the user page of the edit author:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Darenwelsh#Edits_from_space

Best,

--
Yury Bulka
https://mamot.fr/@setthemfree
#NotOnFacebook

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia was edited from the ISS

Pine W
Hi Yury,

I saw some excitement from people regarding this edit. However, I for one
have been hesitant to make wider announcements about this. My personal
concern is that, although I have every reason to believe that the
contributor is who others claim that she is, the contributor did not self
publish information that unambiguously communicated her identity in a
public space in the Wikiverse.

ENWP can be highly protective of contributors' off wiki identities when
contributors have not self published that information. ENWP can be so
protective that there is friction within the community about whether paid
conflict of interest editors are getting an unreasonable degree of
protection. In this case, the contributor's username is highly suggestive
of her identity. I regret if the caution seems to be excessive, but there
are reasons to be cautious about announcing information about other
Wikimedia contributors who have implied and not outright stated information
about their identities.

I hope that in the near future this contributor will provide a small amount
of further self disclosure about her off wiki identity, such as by simply
writing her name on her userpage, and at that time I would be much more
comfortable celebrating this edit. Again, I regret if this approach feels
excessively cautious.

Respectfully,
Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia was edited from the ISS

Todd Allen
In reply to this post by Yury Bulka
It's neat if it happened, but currently, that material was only "sourced"
to a Wikipedia diff and a tweet (and not even a tweet by her). We'd need
better than that for verification, so I'd hold off saying it definitely
happened until fact-checked sources confirm it did. (Not to say I don't
believe anyone, of course, but "Wait for the sources, then we write about
it after" is pretty much always how we do things.) I suspect some news
outlet might be quite interested to write about such an occurrence.

Todd

On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 8:10 AM Yury Bulka <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I'm sorry if this was already posted here, I may have missed it. But in
> case it was not:
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia&diff=926638155&oldid=926632230
>
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_spacewalks_since_2015&diff=prev&oldid=926631603
>
> I think this is truly amazing.
>
> P.S. I was trying to find some additional sources besides this edit that
> would provide more context for readers, and am currently discussing this
> on the user page of the edit author:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Darenwelsh#Edits_from_space
>
> Best,
>
> --
> Yury Bulka
> https://mamot.fr/@setthemfree
> #NotOnFacebook
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia was edited from the ISS

Jane Darnell
In reply to this post by Pine W
I believe Andy arranged for this to happen and there is a blog out there somewhere

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:37 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hi Yury,
>
> I saw some excitement from people regarding this edit. However, I for one
> have been hesitant to make wider announcements about this. My personal
> concern is that, although I have every reason to believe that the
> contributor is who others claim that she is, the contributor did not self
> publish information that unambiguously communicated her identity in a
> public space in the Wikiverse.
>
> ENWP can be highly protective of contributors' off wiki identities when
> contributors have not self published that information. ENWP can be so
> protective that there is friction within the community about whether paid
> conflict of interest editors are getting an unreasonable degree of
> protection. In this case, the contributor's username is highly suggestive
> of her identity. I regret if the caution seems to be excessive, but there
> are reasons to be cautious about announcing information about other
> Wikimedia contributors who have implied and not outright stated information
> about their identities.
>
> I hope that in the near future this contributor will provide a small amount
> of further self disclosure about her off wiki identity, such as by simply
> writing her name on her userpage, and at that time I would be much more
> comfortable celebrating this edit. Again, I regret if this approach feels
> excessively cautious.
>
> Respectfully,
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia was edited from the ISS

Yury Bulka
Regarding the current sources and authenticity, certainly there is room
for improvement. I'd only add that in addition to the diff, the user page
and the tweet, we have the user creation log:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=newusers&user=&page=User%3AAstro+Christina&wpdate=&tagfilter=

It mentions that the user account was created by an admin+checkuser and that it
was part of an ISS editathon.

Regarding blog post, it is about another instance where an astronaut
created content on the ISS specifically for Wikipedia, but it was added
by someone else:
https://blog.wikimedia.org/2017/11/29/astronaut-spoken-voice/

I think it would make sense to keep the discussion about the sources on
the Wikipedia, since not everyone is subscribed to this list. For now it
has been happening on [[User talk:Darenwelsh]] (although probably it
would have been more appropriate to have it on the article's talk page):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Darenwelsh#Edits_from_space

Best,
--
Yury Bulka
https://mamot.fr/@setthemfree
#NotOnFacebook



Jane Darnell <[hidden email]> writes:

> I believe Andy arranged for this to happen and there is a blog out there somewhere
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Dec 28, 2019, at 11:37 PM, Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Yury,
>>
>> I saw some excitement from people regarding this edit. However, I for one
>> have been hesitant to make wider announcements about this. My personal
>> concern is that, although I have every reason to believe that the
>> contributor is who others claim that she is, the contributor did not self
>> publish information that unambiguously communicated her identity in a
>> public space in the Wikiverse.
>>
>> ENWP can be highly protective of contributors' off wiki identities when
>> contributors have not self published that information. ENWP can be so
>> protective that there is friction within the community about whether paid
>> conflict of interest editors are getting an unreasonable degree of
>> protection. In this case, the contributor's username is highly suggestive
>> of her identity. I regret if the caution seems to be excessive, but there
>> are reasons to be cautious about announcing information about other
>> Wikimedia contributors who have implied and not outright stated information
>> about their identities.
>>
>> I hope that in the near future this contributor will provide a small amount
>> of further self disclosure about her off wiki identity, such as by simply
>> writing her name on her userpage, and at that time I would be much more
>> comfortable celebrating this edit. Again, I regret if this approach feels
>> excessively cautious.
>>
>> Respectfully,
>> Pine
>> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> New messages to: [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia was edited from the ISS

Pine W
I saw that user creation log and that does seem to me to be persuasive
evidence, but persuasive evidence may not be conclusive proof. Carl Sagan
said that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagan_standard>", and I understand if people
would like evidence that is more verifiable to the public than a CU's
testimony, especially keeping in mind that hoaxes have been a problem on
English Wikipedia
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia>.
However, I also think that "assume good faith
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith>" applies here,
and I am mindful of another user who said that people made demands for
proof of their authenticity in a way that sounded to me like the
interrogators' primary motivation was harassment. Perhaps "Trust, but verify
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify>" fits how I'm thinking
about this. The currently available evidence wouldn't be enough for me to
feel comfortable with sending out a press release, but internally (in
Wikimedia spaces) I would be happy to celebrate good news if this person is
able and willing to publicly associate the Wikipedia account with their
identity as an astronaut.

Pine
( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia was edited from the ISS

Todd Allen
Internally, absolutely.

I was more responding to it having been placed into an actual article (the
one on Wikipedia itself) with the only source being a diff and tweet. An
internal website log and a tweet wouldn't be enough for inclusion of
something like that in an article about any other website.

Hence my suggestion for those involved to get in touch with news outlets.
It's something very cool, and it certainly should be something we see
reporting on. It would make a great feel-good/human interest piece, so I'm
sure someone would be interested in publishing on it. And once that
happens, we can put it in articles too.

Todd

On Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 12:12 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I saw that user creation log and that does seem to me to be persuasive
> evidence, but persuasive evidence may not be conclusive proof. Carl Sagan
> said that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagan_standard>", and I understand if
> people
> would like evidence that is more verifiable to the public than a CU's
> testimony, especially keeping in mind that hoaxes have been a problem on
> English Wikipedia
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia>.
> However, I also think that "assume good faith
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith>" applies here,
> and I am mindful of another user who said that people made demands for
> proof of their authenticity in a way that sounded to me like the
> interrogators' primary motivation was harassment. Perhaps "Trust, but
> verify
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify>" fits how I'm thinking
> about this. The currently available evidence wouldn't be enough for me to
> feel comfortable with sending out a press release, but internally (in
> Wikimedia spaces) I would be happy to celebrate good news if this person is
> able and willing to publicly associate the Wikipedia account with their
> identity as an astronaut.
>
> Pine
> ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikipedia was edited from the ISS

MusikAnimal
Hi! At the Wikimedia Technical Conference in Atlanta, I worked with Daren
Welsh <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Darenwelsh>, a spacewalk
instructor for NASA, to assist Christina Koch in making the edit. I am
certain this is not fake news, and you definitely should not hesitate to
celebrate this milestone :)

That said, I understand if the lack of reporting is too great to make our
own press release, and perhaps also for inclusion in the [[Wikipedia]]
article. From what I was told, the news was shared with NASA's public
affairs, but they unfortunately did not create a blog post or the like. It
is my impression this historic edit is much more significant to us than to
NASA (as an organization), especially considering Christina did this in her
free time. We may have to be the primary source, if we want one.

I don't think we can necessarily expect Christina to satisfy doubts of the
authenticity of her edit or account either, as she's understandably very
busy breaking records and being an inspiration to women and space
enthusiasts around the world <https://nyti.ms/365aFjD> :) Let's just be
grateful that she took the time to do this for us in the first place. I
certainly am grateful for my very tiny role!

Kind regards,

~ MA

On Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 02:22 Todd Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Internally, absolutely.
>
> I was more responding to it having been placed into an actual article (the
> one on Wikipedia itself) with the only source being a diff and tweet. An
> internal website log and a tweet wouldn't be enough for inclusion of
> something like that in an article about any other website.
>
> Hence my suggestion for those involved to get in touch with news outlets.
> It's something very cool, and it certainly should be something we see
> reporting on. It would make a great feel-good/human interest piece, so I'm
> sure someone would be interested in publishing on it. And once that
> happens, we can put it in articles too.
>
> Todd
>
> On Tue, Dec 31, 2019, 12:12 AM Pine W <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I saw that user creation log and that does seem to me to be persuasive
> > evidence, but persuasive evidence may not be conclusive proof. Carl Sagan
> > said that "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagan_standard>", and I understand if
> > people
> > would like evidence that is more verifiable to the public than a CU's
> > testimony, especially keeping in mind that hoaxes have been a problem on
> > English Wikipedia
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:List_of_hoaxes_on_Wikipedia>.
> > However, I also think that "assume good faith
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Assume_good_faith>" applies
> here,
> > and I am mindful of another user who said that people made demands for
> > proof of their authenticity in a way that sounded to me like the
> > interrogators' primary motivation was harassment. Perhaps "Trust, but
> > verify
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust,_but_verify>" fits how I'm thinking
> > about this. The currently available evidence wouldn't be enough for me to
> > feel comfortable with sending out a press release, but internally (in
> > Wikimedia spaces) I would be happy to celebrate good news if this person
> is
> > able and willing to publicly associate the Wikipedia account with their
> > identity as an astronaut.
> >
> > Pine
> > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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