[Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

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[Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Erik Moeller-4
Hi folks,

a quick update on the launch of a travel project under the WMF
umbrella, and the import of the existing Wikivoyage site.

* The name of the new site will be wikivoyage.org, per community vote.
Language domains will live at (foo).wikivoyage.org.

* A mailing list has been set up at
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l

* We're not planning to import "Wikivoyage Shared" (which is a media
repository similar to Commons) and are encouraging the community to
help with transferring appropriately licensed files to Wikimedia
Commons.

* The Wikivoyage Association is currently finalizing details of a
domain name transfer with WMF. They have also recently secured
wikivoyage.com.

* The technical launch team at WMF consists of Chris Steipp, Daniel
Zahn, Sam Reed, Matthias Mullie, and myself. Everyone is encouraged to
help. Technical updates will be posted to
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration and related pages.

We're using #wikimedia-wikivoyage on irc.freenode.net to coordinate,
so feel free to join us there any time and use it for other related
issues.

* We've received a tarball of extensions running on the Wikivoyage
sites, have imported them into Wikimedia's Git repo, and are currently
reviewing them and making changes where needed to ensure they're ready
for WMF. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration/Extensions
for a list of extensions if you want to help (and feel free to comment
on the priorities suggested by the Wikivoyage folks)

We may not be able to deploy all extensions; we're using the two week
time-box for the launch as the main forcing function.

* The hairiest part is to properly migrate user accounts. We can only
migrate with users' permission, so Wikivoyage will kick off an opt-in
process shortly to ask users to consent to transferring their private
account data. On the WMF side, we have to reconcile account names with
existing ones and require renames if necessary.

We'll set up an initially private test instance in Labs and iterate
over it with a (possibly reduced) content import, to ensure that all
the tricky legal bits (e.g. attribution) are handled correctly. Then
we'll set up the production cluster wikis.

* Our goal is to go live by the end of this month. That might slip
depending on the domain name transfer and unexpected technical hurdles
or emergencies on the WMF side. We will aim to minimize downtime for
current users, and to ensure that the old sites can be available in
read-only mode for a little while longer to make it possible to
compare site behavior.

Let me know if you have any questions about the process. :-)

All best,
Erik


--
Erik Möller
VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Arthur Richards-2
Exciting stuff!

Don't forget to provision .m domains for wikivoyage if a mobile version is
expected (I imagine it is). As a side note, it would be great if
provisioning .m domains was sop for setting up new domains.

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 11:47 AM, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> a quick update on the launch of a travel project under the WMF
> umbrella, and the import of the existing Wikivoyage site.
>
> * The name of the new site will be wikivoyage.org, per community vote.
> Language domains will live at (foo).wikivoyage.org.
>
> * A mailing list has been set up at
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
>
> * We're not planning to import "Wikivoyage Shared" (which is a media
> repository similar to Commons) and are encouraging the community to
> help with transferring appropriately licensed files to Wikimedia
> Commons.
>
> * The Wikivoyage Association is currently finalizing details of a
> domain name transfer with WMF. They have also recently secured
> wikivoyage.com.
>
> * The technical launch team at WMF consists of Chris Steipp, Daniel
> Zahn, Sam Reed, Matthias Mullie, and myself. Everyone is encouraged to
> help. Technical updates will be posted to
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration and related pages.
>
> We're using #wikimedia-wikivoyage on irc.freenode.net to coordinate,
> so feel free to join us there any time and use it for other related
> issues.
>
> * We've received a tarball of extensions running on the Wikivoyage
> sites, have imported them into Wikimedia's Git repo, and are currently
> reviewing them and making changes where needed to ensure they're ready
> for WMF. See
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration/Extensions
> for a list of extensions if you want to help (and feel free to comment
> on the priorities suggested by the Wikivoyage folks)
>
> We may not be able to deploy all extensions; we're using the two week
> time-box for the launch as the main forcing function.
>
> * The hairiest part is to properly migrate user accounts. We can only
> migrate with users' permission, so Wikivoyage will kick off an opt-in
> process shortly to ask users to consent to transferring their private
> account data. On the WMF side, we have to reconcile account names with
> existing ones and require renames if necessary.
>
> We'll set up an initially private test instance in Labs and iterate
> over it with a (possibly reduced) content import, to ensure that all
> the tricky legal bits (e.g. attribution) are handled correctly. Then
> we'll set up the production cluster wikis.
>
> * Our goal is to go live by the end of this month. That might slip
> depending on the domain name transfer and unexpected technical hurdles
> or emergencies on the WMF side. We will aim to minimize downtime for
> current users, and to ensure that the old sites can be available in
> read-only mode for a little while longer to make it possible to
> compare site behavior.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions about the process. :-)
>
> All best,
> Erik
>
>
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>



--
Arthur Richards
Software Engineer, Mobile
[[User:Awjrichards]]
IRC: awjr
+1-415-839-6885 x6687
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Strainu
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
Hi Erik,

What languages are you launching with and what is the procedure for
launching new languages?

Thanks,
  Strainu

2012/10/16 Erik Moeller <[hidden email]>:

> Hi folks,
>
> a quick update on the launch of a travel project under the WMF
> umbrella, and the import of the existing Wikivoyage site.
>
> * The name of the new site will be wikivoyage.org, per community vote.
> Language domains will live at (foo).wikivoyage.org.
>
> * A mailing list has been set up at
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikivoyage-l
>
> * We're not planning to import "Wikivoyage Shared" (which is a media
> repository similar to Commons) and are encouraging the community to
> help with transferring appropriately licensed files to Wikimedia
> Commons.
>
> * The Wikivoyage Association is currently finalizing details of a
> domain name transfer with WMF. They have also recently secured
> wikivoyage.com.
>
> * The technical launch team at WMF consists of Chris Steipp, Daniel
> Zahn, Sam Reed, Matthias Mullie, and myself. Everyone is encouraged to
> help. Technical updates will be posted to
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration and related pages.
>
> We're using #wikimedia-wikivoyage on irc.freenode.net to coordinate,
> so feel free to join us there any time and use it for other related
> issues.
>
> * We've received a tarball of extensions running on the Wikivoyage
> sites, have imported them into Wikimedia's Git repo, and are currently
> reviewing them and making changes where needed to ensure they're ready
> for WMF. See https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_migration/Extensions
> for a list of extensions if you want to help (and feel free to comment
> on the priorities suggested by the Wikivoyage folks)
>
> We may not be able to deploy all extensions; we're using the two week
> time-box for the launch as the main forcing function.
>
> * The hairiest part is to properly migrate user accounts. We can only
> migrate with users' permission, so Wikivoyage will kick off an opt-in
> process shortly to ask users to consent to transferring their private
> account data. On the WMF side, we have to reconcile account names with
> existing ones and require renames if necessary.
>
> We'll set up an initially private test instance in Labs and iterate
> over it with a (possibly reduced) content import, to ensure that all
> the tricky legal bits (e.g. attribution) are handled correctly. Then
> we'll set up the production cluster wikis.
>
> * Our goal is to go live by the end of this month. That might slip
> depending on the domain name transfer and unexpected technical hurdles
> or emergencies on the WMF side. We will aim to minimize downtime for
> current users, and to ensure that the old sites can be available in
> read-only mode for a little while longer to make it possible to
> compare site behavior.
>
> Let me know if you have any questions about the process. :-)
>
> All best,
> Erik
>
>
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Erik Moeller-4
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Erik,
>
> What languages are you launching with and what is the procedure for
> launching new languages?

We're basing the initial set on the languages which are ready for
import from Wikivoyage. At this point, it looks like that would be
German, Italian, English, French, Dutch and Swedish.

I think it's up to the language committee and the larger Wikimedia
community to determine the process for new languages. My understanding
is that per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_proposal_policy
new languages would need to use the incubator at first to demonstrate
viability.

Erik
--
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VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

metasj
A great update.  Thanks Erik!

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 4:56 PM, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We're basing the initial set on the languages which are ready for
> import from Wikivoyage. At this point, it looks like that would be
> German, Italian, English, French, Dutch and Swedish.
>
> I think it's up to the language committee and the larger Wikimedia
> community to determine the process for new languages. My understanding
> is that per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_proposal_policy
> new languages would need to use the incubator at first to demonstrate viability.

+1

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
Hoi,
This has been discussed in the language committee. In the committee we all
agreed that the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start without any
interference of us and that new languages should start through the normal
process because from now they are just like any other new project in a
language.
Thanks,
      Gerard

On 16 October 2012 22:56, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 1:37 PM, Strainu <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Erik,
> >
> > What languages are you launching with and what is the procedure for
> > launching new languages?
>
> We're basing the initial set on the languages which are ready for
> import from Wikivoyage. At this point, it looks like that would be
> German, Italian, English, French, Dutch and Swedish.
>
> I think it's up to the language committee and the larger Wikimedia
> community to determine the process for new languages. My understanding
> is that per https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_proposal_policy
> new languages would need to use the incubator at first to demonstrate
> viability.
>
> Erik
> --
> Erik Möller
> VP of Engineering and Product Development, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Strainu
2012/10/17 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
>
> This has been discussed in the language committee. In the committee we all
> agreed that the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start without any
> interference of us and that new languages should start through the normal
> process because from now they are just like any other new project in a
> language.

But how about languages already existing in Wikitravel? They already
have the content, if not the community.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Amir E. Aharoni
2012/10/17 Strainu <[hidden email]>:

> 2012/10/17 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
>>
>> This has been discussed in the language committee. In the committee we all
>> agreed that the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start without any
>> interference of us and that new languages should start through the normal
>> process because from now they are just like any other new project in a
>> language.
>
> But how about languages already existing in Wikitravel? They already
> have the content, if not the community.

As Gerard said, the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start
without any interference.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Deryck Chan-2
On 17 October 2012 09:16, Amir E. Aharoni <[hidden email]>wrote:

> 2012/10/17 Strainu <[hidden email]>:
> > 2012/10/17 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
> >>
> >> This has been discussed in the language committee. In the committee we
> all
> >> agreed that the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start without
> any
> >> interference of us and that new languages should start through the
> normal
> >> process because from now they are just like any other new project in a
> >> language.
> >
> > But how about languages already existing in Wikitravel? They already
> > have the content, if not the community.
>
> As Gerard said, the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start
> without any interference.
>

Amir,
I think Strainu is referring to languages that exist on Wikitravel but not
Wikivoyage.
Deryck
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Tomasz Ganicz
In reply to this post by Amir E. Aharoni
2012/10/17 Amir E. Aharoni <[hidden email]>:

> 2012/10/17 Strainu <[hidden email]>:
>> 2012/10/17 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
>>>
>>> This has been discussed in the language committee. In the committee we all
>>> agreed that the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start without any
>>> interference of us and that new languages should start through the normal
>>> process because from now they are just like any other new project in a
>>> language.
>>
>> But how about languages already existing in Wikitravel? They already
>> have the content, if not the community.
>
> As Gerard said, the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start
> without any interference.
>

But the question is about exisitng Wikitravel languages. For example
there is hebrew Wikitravel but there is no hebrew Wikivoyage.

http://wikitravel.org/he/%D7%A2%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%93_%D7%A8%D7%90%D7%A9%D7%99

Actually the hebrew version of wikitravel has only 102 articiles but
for example Polish:

http://wikitravel.org/pl/Strona_g%C5%82%C3%B3wna

has 2585, although actually is in fact half-dead and going through the
incubator-language committee process will rather discourage the tiny
community of Polish wikitravel to switch to vikivoyage, so the effect
will be that Polish wikivoage won't appear in predictable future. I
guess the same will be with other mid-size wikitravel language
versions of which there are a couple around...

Hope I am wrong anyway :-)


--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Yaroslav M. Blanter
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
On Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:44:49 +0200, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> Hoi,
> This has been discussed in the language committee. In the committee
> we all
> agreed that the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start
> without any
> interference of us and that new languages should start through the
> normal
> process because from now they are just like any other new project in
> a
> language.
> Thanks,
>       Gerard
>

There is Russian version of Wikitravel but not of (old) Wikivoyage.
Should they still go to the incubator?

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Juergen Fenn-3
In reply to this post by Deryck Chan-2
2012/10/17 Deryck Chan <[hidden email]>:

> I think Strainu is referring to languages that exist on Wikitravel but not
> Wikivoyage.

Probably a practical question: As Wikitravel closed the API in August,
there is probably no more data that Wikivoyage could rescue from the
project than now is available in Wikivoyage. If a language community
needs a fresh start in Wikivoyage it would have to begin from the very
beginning. In this case it would be best to go through Incubator.

Regards,
Jürgen.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Amir E. Aharoni
In reply to this post by Deryck Chan-2
2012/10/17 Deryck Chan <[hidden email]>:

> On 17 October 2012 09:16, Amir E. Aharoni <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> 2012/10/17 Strainu <[hidden email]>:
>> > 2012/10/17 Gerard Meijssen <[hidden email]>:
>> >>
>> >> This has been discussed in the language committee. In the committee we
>> all
>> >> agreed that the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start without
>> any
>> >> interference of us and that new languages should start through the
>> normal
>> >> process because from now they are just like any other new project in a
>> >> language.
>> >
>> > But how about languages already existing in Wikitravel? They already
>> > have the content, if not the community.
>>
>> As Gerard said, the existing languages for Wikivoyage should start
>> without any interference.
>>
>
> Amir,
> I think Strainu is referring to languages that exist on Wikitravel but not
> Wikivoyage.

/me slaps self.

Well, this confusion will probably happen a lot with this project.

--
Amir Elisha Aharoni · אָמִיר אֱלִישָׁע אַהֲרוֹנִי
http://aharoni.wordpress.com
‪“We're living in pieces,
I want to live in peace.” – T. Moore‬

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Tomasz Ganicz
In reply to this post by Juergen Fenn-3
2012/10/17 Juergen Fenn <[hidden email]>:

> 2012/10/17 Deryck Chan <[hidden email]>:
>
>> I think Strainu is referring to languages that exist on Wikitravel but not
>> Wikivoyage.
>
> Probably a practical question: As Wikitravel closed the API in August,
> there is probably no more data that Wikivoyage could rescue from the
> project than now is available in Wikivoyage. If a language community
> needs a fresh start in Wikivoyage it would have to begin from the very
> beginning. In this case it would be best to go through Incubator.
>

So, the predictable effect will be that mid-size wikitravel language
versions which did not moved to wikivoyage before August will rather
stay on Wikitravel. There will be hard to find volunteers in these
langauges ready to go through painful and time consuming process of
incubator as there is already working wiki that anyone can join
without any obstacles...


--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://pl.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Polimerek
http://www.ganicz.pl/poli/
http://www.cbmm.lodz.pl/work.php?id=29&title=tomasz-ganicz

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Strainu
> 2012/10/17 Juergen Fenn <[hidden email]>:
>> 2012/10/17 Deryck Chan <[hidden email]>:
>>
>>> I think Strainu is referring to languages that exist on Wikitravel but not
>>> Wikivoyage.
>>
>> Probably a practical question: As Wikitravel closed the API in August,
>> there is probably no more data that Wikivoyage could rescue from the
>> project than now is available in Wikivoyage. If a language community
>> needs a fresh start in Wikivoyage it would have to begin from the very
>> beginning. In this case it would be best to go through Incubator.
>>
>

That's not precisely true. With enough determination, the content can
be extracted from Wikitravel, even now. Hell, even copy-paste would
work to some extent.

But I remember that the archive team said they had a dump from August
2011 for all the Wikitravel languages and private persons might have
more recent dumps. Can't those be used?

2012/10/17 Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]>:
> So, the predictable effect will be that mid-size wikitravel language
> versions which did not moved to wikivoyage before August will rather
> stay on Wikitravel. There will be hard to find volunteers in these
> langauges ready to go through painful and time consuming process of
> incubator as there is already working wiki that anyone can join
> without any obstacles...

I don't think this is necessarily true, even if it is an important
risk and one of the reasons I've asked the questions originally.  For
instance, the Romanian Wikitravel was virtually dead, but some people
from ro.wp expressed interest in contributing to the new site if it
has a Romanian version.

Strainu

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Juergen Fenn-3
In reply to this post by Tomasz Ganicz
2012/10/17 Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]>:

>> Probably a practical question: As Wikitravel closed the API in August,
>> there is probably no more data that Wikivoyage could rescue from the
>> project than now is available in Wikivoyage. If a language community
>> needs a fresh start in Wikivoyage it would have to begin from the very
>> beginning. In this case it would be best to go through Incubator.
>>
>
> So, the predictable effect will be that mid-size wikitravel language
> versions which did not moved to wikivoyage before August will rather
> stay on Wikitravel. There will be hard to find volunteers in these
> langauges ready to go through painful and time consuming process of
> incubator as there is already working wiki that anyone can join
> without any obstacles...

Maybe, maybe not. First of all, Wikitravel is to blame because they
hinder free content from being used according to its license. But
perhaps it would be possible to migrate language versions even though
to Incubator and then to new Wikivoyage proper.

Regards,
Jürgen.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Roland Unger
In reply to this post by Strainu
> > 2012/10/17 Juergen Fenn <[hidden email]>:
> >> 2012/10/17 Deryck Chan <[hidden email]>:
> >>
> >>> I think Strainu is referring to languages that exist on Wikitravel
> but not
> >>> Wikivoyage.
> >>
> >> Probably a practical question: As Wikitravel closed the API in August,
> >> there is probably no more data that Wikivoyage could rescue from the
> >> project than now is available in Wikivoyage. If a language community
> >> needs a fresh start in Wikivoyage it would have to begin from the very
> >> beginning. In this case it would be best to go through Incubator.
> >>
> >
>
> That's not precisely true. With enough determination, the content can
> be extracted from Wikitravel, even now. Hell, even copy-paste would
> work to some extent.
>
> But I remember that the archive team said they had a dump from August
> 2011 for all the Wikitravel languages and private persons might have
> more recent dumps. Can't those be used?

> 2012/10/17 Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]>:
> > So, the predictable effect will be that mid-size wikitravel language
> > versions which did not moved to wikivoyage before August will rather
> > stay on Wikitravel. There will be hard to find volunteers in these
> > langauges ready to go through painful and time consuming process of
> > incubator as there is already working wiki that anyone can join
> > without any obstacles...
>
> I don't think this is necessarily true, even if it is an important
> risk and one of the reasons I've asked the questions originally.  For
> instance, the Romanian Wikitravel was virtually dead, but some people
> from ro.wp expressed interest in contributing to the new site if it
> has a Romanian version.


It's correct that the dumps of all languages from August 2012 are available
at Wikivoyage saved as XML files.

But these files could not be used to publish them immediately because they
contain a lot of spam which must be removed by the community before.
But the communities are missing.

In some cases it makes sense to think about establishing a language
branch from scratch.

See also the interest list at

http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/Interest_in_starting_a_new_language_version

at least five authors and admins should show their interest in helping to
migrate the wikis.

Roland

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

jmh649
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
People have copies of all language versions of the old site as of Aug of
2012. It should be possible to set them up as well. What we would need
would be a community of editors to request it. No real sense creating dead
wiki that fill with spam. However it would also be nice if we could stream
line the creation process for new language versions (when previous content
already exists).

--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

The Wikipedia Open Textbook of Medicine
www.opentextbookofmedicine.com
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Strainu
In reply to this post by Roland Unger
2012/10/17 Roland Unger <[hidden email]>:

>> > 2012/10/17 Juergen Fenn <[hidden email]>:
>> >> 2012/10/17 Deryck Chan <[hidden email]>:
>> >>
>> >>> I think Strainu is referring to languages that exist on Wikitravel
>> but not
>> >>> Wikivoyage.
>> >>
>> >> Probably a practical question: As Wikitravel closed the API in August,
>> >> there is probably no more data that Wikivoyage could rescue from the
>> >> project than now is available in Wikivoyage. If a language community
>> >> needs a fresh start in Wikivoyage it would have to begin from the very
>> >> beginning. In this case it would be best to go through Incubator.
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> That's not precisely true. With enough determination, the content can
>> be extracted from Wikitravel, even now. Hell, even copy-paste would
>> work to some extent.
>>
>> But I remember that the archive team said they had a dump from August
>> 2011 for all the Wikitravel languages and private persons might have
>> more recent dumps. Can't those be used?
>
>> 2012/10/17 Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]>:
>> > So, the predictable effect will be that mid-size wikitravel language
>> > versions which did not moved to wikivoyage before August will rather
>> > stay on Wikitravel. There will be hard to find volunteers in these
>> > langauges ready to go through painful and time consuming process of
>> > incubator as there is already working wiki that anyone can join
>> > without any obstacles...
>>
>> I don't think this is necessarily true, even if it is an important
>> risk and one of the reasons I've asked the questions originally.  For
>> instance, the Romanian Wikitravel was virtually dead, but some people
>> from ro.wp expressed interest in contributing to the new site if it
>> has a Romanian version.
>
>
> It's correct that the dumps of all languages from August 2012 are available
> at Wikivoyage saved as XML files.
>
> But these files could not be used to publish them immediately because they
> contain a lot of spam which must be removed by the community before.
> But the communities are missing.
>
> In some cases it makes sense to think about establishing a language
> branch from scratch.
>
> See also the interest list at
>
> http://www.wikivoyage.org/general/Interest_in_starting_a_new_language_version
>
> at least five authors and admins should show their interest in helping to
> migrate the wikis.

I personally don't see much value in starting a new project on
Wikivoyage now (except perhaps to avoid the Incubator, which is a more
bureaucratic process). One of the reasons people did not contribute to
Wikitravel was that it was "different" (e.g. different accounts,
extensions etc.)

Strainu

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Wikivoyage project launch/migration update

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Juergen Fenn-3
Hoi,
From my perspective, what is relevant is that we do not want to interfere
with languages that exist in Wikitravel. It is quite likely that most of
these languages are quite good from a localisation point of view.

What makes sense if several languages are not in Wikivoyage yet, we can
extend our waiver for going through the incubator for a set period ...
something like a year or the end of 2013 ? Our point is not to hinder the
start of existing communities in a new to be created Wikivoyage instance.

All the details mentioned in this mail thread have not been considered by
the language committee but I do not believe it will be a problem by any of
its members.
Thanks,
     Gerard

On 17 October 2012 11:07, Juergen Fenn <[hidden email]>wrote:

> 2012/10/17 Tomasz Ganicz <[hidden email]>:
>
> >> Probably a practical question: As Wikitravel closed the API in August,
> >> there is probably no more data that Wikivoyage could rescue from the
> >> project than now is available in Wikivoyage. If a language community
> >> needs a fresh start in Wikivoyage it would have to begin from the very
> >> beginning. In this case it would be best to go through Incubator.
> >>
> >
> > So, the predictable effect will be that mid-size wikitravel language
> > versions which did not moved to wikivoyage before August will rather
> > stay on Wikitravel. There will be hard to find volunteers in these
> > langauges ready to go through painful and time consuming process of
> > incubator as there is already working wiki that anyone can join
> > without any obstacles...
>
> Maybe, maybe not. First of all, Wikitravel is to blame because they
> hinder free content from being used according to its license. But
> perhaps it would be possible to migrate language versions even though
> to Incubator and then to new Wikivoyage proper.
>
> Regards,
> Jürgen.
>
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