[Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

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[Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

rupert THURNER-2
hi,

could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
1. it should knows "groups"
2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of interest"
5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
views
6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
history views
7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page,
   or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.

reason:
currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent
examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the main
reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
* have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
for other users
* make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee

this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german
community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.

what you think?

best regards,
rupert
-------------------
swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

Gryllida
I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively. I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate queue.

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote:

> hi,
>
> could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> 1. it should knows "groups"
> 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of interest"
> 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
> views
> 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> history views
> 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page,
>    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
>
> reason:
> currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
> quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent
> examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
> to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the main
> reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
> for other users
> * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
>
> this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german
> community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
> applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
>
> what you think?
>
> best regards,
> rupert
> -------------------
> swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
Why ?
Thanks.
     GerardM


On 22 February 2014 21:13, Gryllida <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively.
> I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate
> queue.
>
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> > 1. it should knows "groups"
> > 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> > 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> > 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> interest"
> > 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
> history
> > views
> > 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> > history views
> > 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> page,
> >    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
> >
> > reason:
> > currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
> > quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most
> prominent
> > examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
> > to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the
> main
> > reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> > * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
> > for other users
> > * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
> >
> > this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the
> german
> > community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> > system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
> > applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> > continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
> >
> > what you think?
> >
> > best regards,
> > rupert
> > -------------------
> > swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

Jasper Deng
I think this doesn't really address the core issues that surround this
hotly debated topic of paid editing. No further comment.


On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 9:47 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hoi,
> Why ?
> Thanks.
>      GerardM
>
>
> On 22 February 2014 21:13, Gryllida <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively.
> > I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate
> > queue.
> >
> > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
> > > hi,
> > >
> > > could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> > > 1. it should knows "groups"
> > > 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their
> profile
> > > 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> > > 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> > interest"
> > > 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
> > history
> > > views
> > > 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> > > history views
> > > 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> > page,
> > >    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
> > >
> > > reason:
> > > currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it
> is
> > > quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most
> > prominent
> > > examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users
> tend
> > > to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the
> > main
> > > reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> > > * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal
> archive
> > > for other users
> > > * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
> > >
> > > this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the
> > german
> > > community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> > > system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still
> be
> > > applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> > > continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
> > >
> > > what you think?
> > >
> > > best regards,
> > > rupert
> > > -------------------
> > > swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

John Mark Vandenberg
In reply to this post by rupert THURNER-2
Hi rupert,

I think this requester feature has merit, as it provides a tool for
communities to use for this purpose (COI) and others.

One possible implementation is the tag system already part of the Abuse
Filter extension. Bug 18670 requests the tag system be more flexible,
allowing false positives to be addessed, and would also allow self-tagging
of edits.

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=18670
On Feb 22, 2014 10:26 PM, "rupert THURNER" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> hi,
>
> could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> 1. it should knows "groups"
> 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> interest"
> 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
> views
> 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> history views
> 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> page,
>    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
>
> reason:
> currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
> quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent
> examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
> to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the main
> reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
> for other users
> * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
>
> this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german
> community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
> applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
>
> what you think?
>
> best regards,
> rupert
> -------------------
> swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

Emmanuel Engelhart-5
In reply to this post by rupert THURNER-2
I don't know if this is a broadly shared opinion, but like Rupert, I
think this is too difficult to step-in as an organisation. This is in
particular true if you want to do it on an international/multi-language
level.

GLAMs, which are the organisations we want to treasure, are impacted
among others. Read this report from Switzerland for example:
https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/GLAM/Newsletter/January_2014/Contents/Switzerland_report

This is of course the duty of each language community to decide how to
deal with this thematic. However, Mediawiki can play a role by helping
to achieve as much as possible transparency. That the reason why I think
these concrete propositions are discussion worth.

I strongly believe that if the tool allows us to better take in
consideration and track "Corporate personhood" contributions then the
whole debate will be far less passionate, easier to conduct, and at the
end better solutions will emerge.

Emmanuel

Le 22/02/2014 16:25, rupert THURNER a écrit :

> could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> 1. it should knows "groups"
> 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of interest"
> 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
> views
> 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> history views
> 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page,
>    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
>
> reason:
> currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
> quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent
> examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
> to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the main
> reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
> for other users
> * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
>
> this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german
> community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
> applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
>
> what you think?




--
Kiwix - Wikipedia Offline & more
* Web: http://www.kiwix.org
* Twitter: https://twitter.com/KiwixOffline
* more: http://www.kiwix.org/wiki/Communication

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

Gryllida
In reply to this post by Gerard Meijssen-3
No, I mean, that's what article talk page is for.

It's close to useless to get a contributor admit COI by ticking a box.
1) He won't do it.
2) It's much better to add a box to ?action=edit, when a page is created, asking the contributor to type something in manually ("what motivated you to create article? please disclose conflict of interest and affiliations to help us help you.").

Stop adding complexity, bureaucracy and terms. The learning curve is full enough of paperwork, terms, badges, and reviewing as is.

On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 16:47, Gerard Meijssen wrote:

> Hoi,
> Why ?
> Thanks.
>      GerardM
>
>
> On 22 February 2014 21:13, Gryllida <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I do mind 5 and 6, since their submissions would be deleted aggressively.
> > I feel that you may introduce a marker if you want, but not a separate
> > queue.
> >
> > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 2:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
> > > hi,
> > >
> > > could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> > > 1. it should knows "groups"
> > > 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> > > 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> > > 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> > interest"
> > > 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
> > history
> > > views
> > > 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> > > history views
> > > 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> > page,
> > >    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
> > >
> > > reason:
> > > currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
> > > quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most
> > prominent
> > > examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
> > > to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the
> > main
> > > reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> > > * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
> > > for other users
> > > * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
> > >
> > > this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the
> > german
> > > community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> > > system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
> > > applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> > > continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
> > >
> > > what you think?
> > >
> > > best regards,
> > > rupert
> > > -------------------
> > > swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

Steven Walling
In reply to this post by rupert THURNER-2
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:25 AM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]>wrote:

> could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> 1. it should knows "groups"
> 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> interest"
> 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
> views
> 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> history views
> 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> page,
>    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
>

[With my WMF product manager hat on...]

This a big request with many moving parts. We should probably try to
separate them out and simplify where we can. I'd recommend filing bugs for
structured information about groups, profiles, the ability to join/leave
groups, activity feeds per group, and more. This is something that is of
general interest, and is not specific to COI-related issues at all.

Gryllida's comment was a bit abrasive but is a correct understanding of the
challenge here I think, in terms of creating richer kinds of information
about types of edits/editors without making a user do unnecessary extra
work. Imagine if there is essentially as many group types as there are
categories, for instance. It probably makes more sense to have collections
of pages associated with a group, so that we can generate a feed of group
activity not by making the user select a group when saving, but
automatically. So for example: I'm in "Group:Beer" and I edit the article
on "Pilsner", so my edits show in a feed of edits by Group:Beer members to
articles in that subject.

In the long run, we should start creating structured information about
topical groups, and let people access it both through a group page as well
as some kind of editor profile. However, it's not going to happen in the
next calendar year, so I'm not sure it's a good interim solution to the
problem of how to make COI disclosures easier. AbuseFilter also is honestly
probably not the right solution, even if self-tagging existed.

Steven
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

rupert THURNER-2
On Mon, Feb 24, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Steven Walling <[hidden email]>wrote:

> On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:25 AM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]
> >wrote:
>
> > could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> > 1. it should knows "groups"
> > 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> > 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> > 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> > interest"
> > 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
> history
> > views
> > 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> > history views
> > 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> > page,
> >    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
> >
>
> [With my WMF product manager hat on...]
>
> the request is about _exactly this_, for wikipedia edits. you mark your
contribution _when you write it_. you can do this by not changing your user
account, using your gmail address as sender. this use case is quite common,
and it is optional.

rupert.
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

Laura Hale
>
>
> > On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 7:25 AM, rupert THURNER <
> [hidden email]
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> > > 1. it should knows "groups"
> > > 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their
> profile
> > > 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> > > 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> > > interest"
> > > 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
> > history
> > > views
> > > 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> > > history views
> > > 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> > > page,
> > >    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
> > >
> >
>

I think Rupert's proposal does not go far enough in terms of addressing the
potential conflict of interests by contributors because it focuses
exclusively on paid edits while failing to address other conflict of
interests problems that lead to neutrality issues.  While anyone should be
free to edit, the edit box should contain a dynamic box at the bottom that
includes a potential list of conflicts that create bias problems based on
the conflict.  The user, before submitting their edit, should click each
box verifying what their (potential) advocacy problems are so that their
edits may be vetted.  This includes gender, religion, nationality,
ethnicity, political alignment, Political party membership, academic
discipline, level of education, yearly earnings, city you live in, and
employer.

So if you are editing an article about Serbian politics, you would be asked
if you are a Serb nationalist, a Croatian nationalist, a right wing
political party member, a left wing political party member, male,
Christian, Muslim, have a PhD, work for the government, work for for a
non-profit, if you live in Belgrade, etc.  This would increase Wikipedia's
transparency and accountability of editors for their actions.  It would
actively discourage advocacy of all types, including the paid type.

Sincerely,
Laura Hale

--
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

Yann Forget-3
2014-02-25 21:20 GMT+05:30 Laura Hale <[hidden email]>:

> So if you are editing an article about Serbian politics, you would be asked
> if you are a Serb nationalist, a Croatian nationalist, a right wing
> political party member, a left wing political party member, male,
> Christian, Muslim, have a PhD, work for the government, work for for a
> non-profit, if you live in Belgrade, etc.
>

Hopefully, this is a (bad) joke.


> (...)
> Sincerely,
> Laura Hale
>
> Regards,
Yann

> --
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] extend mediawiki software to allow append a "group", and "COI" to an edit

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Laura Hale
Laura Hale wrote:

>I think Rupert's proposal does not go far enough in terms of addressing
>the potential conflict of interests by contributors because it focuses
>exclusively on paid edits while failing to address other conflict of
>interests problems that lead to neutrality issues.  While anyone should be
>free to edit, the edit box should contain a dynamic box at the bottom that
>includes a potential list of conflicts that create bias problems based on
>the conflict.  The user, before submitting their edit, should click each
>box verifying what their (potential) advocacy problems are so that their
>edits may be vetted.  This includes gender, religion, nationality,
>ethnicity, political alignment, Political party membership, academic
>discipline, level of education, yearly earnings, city you live in, and
>employer.
>
>So if you are editing an article about Serbian politics, you would be
>asked if you are a Serb nationalist, a Croatian nationalist, a right wing
>political party member, a left wing political party member, male,
>Christian, Muslim, have a PhD, work for the government, work for for a
>non-profit, if you live in Belgrade, etc.  This would increase Wikipedia's
>transparency and accountability of editors for their actions.  It would
>actively discourage advocacy of all types, including the paid type.

Hmmm, I'm running into <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law> with
this post. I honestly can't tell if you're being serious here.

MZMcBride



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[Wikimedia-l] Affiliation in username

Gryllida
In reply to this post by rupert THURNER-2
On a second thought, do we want to add an optional "affiliation" field to the signup form, so the affiliation goes at the end of username in braces?

- DGarry (WMF)
- Fred (DesignSolutionsInc)
- David (MIT)
- ...

So the signup form would look like this:

 -------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                             |
| [ Username preview in large green font ]                    |
|                                                             |
| Username:                                                   |
|  ___________________                                        |
| Password:                                                   |
|  ___________________                                        |
| Password 2:                                                 |
|  ___________________                                        |
| Email (optional):                                           |
|  ___________________                                        |
| Affiliation (optional; if your editing is related to work): |
|  ___________________                                        |
|                                                             |
 -------------------------------------------------------------

I.e.

 -------------------------------------------------------------
|                                                             |
| [ "Gryllida (FOO)" in large green font ]                    |
|                                                             |
| Username:                                                   |
|  _Gryllida__________                                        |
| Password:                                                   |
|  ___________________                                        |
| Password 2:                                                 |
|  ___________________                                        |
| Email (optional):                                           |
|  ___________________                                        |
| Affiliation (optional; if your editing is related to work): |
|  _FOO_______________                                        |
|                                                             |
 -------------------------------------------------------------

Gryllida.


On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 1:25, rupert THURNER wrote:

> hi,
>
> could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> 1. it should knows "groups"
> 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of interest"
> 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in history
> views
> 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> history views
> 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group page,
>    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
>
> reason:
> currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
> quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most prominent
> examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
> to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the main
> reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
> for other users
> * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
>
> this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the german
> community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
> applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
>
> what you think?
>
> best regards,
> rupert
> -------------------
> swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Affiliation in username

Risker
I hear where you're coming from, Gryllida.  This only works if there is
some mechanism by which the affiliation can be confirmed.  The (WMF)
affiliation is easily confirmed, and in fact anyone adding that affiliation
to their account name who isn't a WMF staffer gets blocked pretty quickly.

However, there's no easy mechanism to verify an affiliation external to the
WMF family.  I understand our colleagues at the German Wikipedia have a
process for verifying authorized accounts for specific entities, but their
community considers them role accounts and restricts them in particular
ways.  Other projects, including English Wikipedia, have essentially
"banned" role accounts.  What would happen if David (MIT) accepts a
position at Stanford? Does he have to change his username to David
(Stanford) - oh, that won't work since the original edits would be related
to MIT...so he'd have to start a new account David (Stanford), and somehow
link them.  What issues would arise if the user doesn't want to change
usernames once he's no longer affiliated with an organization?

I admit I'm partial to what German Wikipedia is doing with role accounts
for organizations, but given the harshness toward "commerce" accounts on
some other projects, I'm not sure it would work universally.

Best,

Risker/Anne


On 19 April 2014 19:17, Gryllida <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On a second thought, do we want to add an optional "affiliation" field to
> the signup form, so the affiliation goes at the end of username in braces?
>
> - DGarry (WMF)
> - Fred (DesignSolutionsInc)
> - David (MIT)
> - ...
>
> So the signup form would look like this:
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
> |                                                             |
> | [ Username preview in large green font ]                    |
> |                                                             |
> | Username:                                                   |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Password:                                                   |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Password 2:                                                 |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Email (optional):                                           |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Affiliation (optional; if your editing is related to work): |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> |                                                             |
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I.e.
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
> |                                                             |
> | [ "Gryllida (FOO)" in large green font ]                    |
> |                                                             |
> | Username:                                                   |
> |  _Gryllida__________                                        |
> | Password:                                                   |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Password 2:                                                 |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Email (optional):                                           |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Affiliation (optional; if your editing is related to work): |
> |  _FOO_______________                                        |
> |                                                             |
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Gryllida.
>
>
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 1:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> > 1. it should knows "groups"
> > 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> > 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> > 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> interest"
> > 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
> history
> > views
> > 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> > history views
> > 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> page,
> >    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
> >
> > reason:
> > currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
> > quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most
> prominent
> > examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
> > to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the
> main
> > reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> > * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
> > for other users
> > * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
> >
> > this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the
> german
> > community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> > system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
> > applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> > continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
> >
> > what you think?
> >
> > best regards,
> > rupert
> > -------------------
> > swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Affiliation in username

Amir E. Aharoni
In reply to this post by Gryllida
Silly technical remark: Everybody, please stop doing this with parentheses.
It breaks in right to left languages. Gary-WMF is just as readable, and
doesn't have this problem. Thanks for the attention.
בתאריך 20 באפר 2014 02:17, מאת "Gryllida" <[hidden email]>:

> On a second thought, do we want to add an optional "affiliation" field to
> the signup form, so the affiliation goes at the end of username in braces?
>
> - DGarry (WMF)
> - Fred (DesignSolutionsInc)
> - David (MIT)
> - ...
>
> So the signup form would look like this:
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
> |                                                             |
> | [ Username preview in large green font ]                    |
> |                                                             |
> | Username:                                                   |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Password:                                                   |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Password 2:                                                 |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Email (optional):                                           |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Affiliation (optional; if your editing is related to work): |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> |                                                             |
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I.e.
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
> |                                                             |
> | [ "Gryllida (FOO)" in large green font ]                    |
> |                                                             |
> | Username:                                                   |
> |  _Gryllida__________                                        |
> | Password:                                                   |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Password 2:                                                 |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Email (optional):                                           |
> |  ___________________                                        |
> | Affiliation (optional; if your editing is related to work): |
> |  _FOO_______________                                        |
> |                                                             |
>  -------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Gryllida.
>
>
> On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 1:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
> > hi,
> >
> > could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> > 1. it should knows "groups"
> > 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their profile
> > 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> > 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> interest"
> > 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
> history
> > views
> > 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> > history views
> > 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> page,
> >    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
> >
> > reason:
> > currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it is
> > quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most
> prominent
> > examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users tend
> > to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the
> main
> > reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> > * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal archive
> > for other users
> > * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
> >
> > this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the
> german
> > community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> > system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still be
> > applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> > continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
> >
> > what you think?
> >
> > best regards,
> > rupert
> > -------------------
> > swissGLAMour, http://wikimedia.ch
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Affiliation in username

Philippe Beaudette-3
Amir, this is the first time that one's been brought up.  I'll chat with
OIT about potentially changing moving forward.

pb


*Philippe Beaudette * \\  Director, Community Advocacy \\ Wikimedia
Foundation, Inc.
 T: 1-415-839-6885 x6643 |  [hidden email]  |  :
@Philippewiki<https://twitter.com/Philippewiki>


On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 11:39 PM, Amir E. Aharoni <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Silly technical remark: Everybody, please stop doing this with parentheses.
> It breaks in right to left languages. Gary-WMF is just as readable, and
> doesn't have this problem. Thanks for the attention.
> בתאריך 20 באפר 2014 02:17, מאת "Gryllida" <[hidden email]>:
>
> > On a second thought, do we want to add an optional "affiliation" field to
> > the signup form, so the affiliation goes at the end of username in
> braces?
> >
> > - DGarry (WMF)
> > - Fred (DesignSolutionsInc)
> > - David (MIT)
> > - ...
> >
> > So the signup form would look like this:
> >
> >  -------------------------------------------------------------
> > |                                                             |
> > | [ Username preview in large green font ]                    |
> > |                                                             |
> > | Username:                                                   |
> > |  ___________________                                        |
> > | Password:                                                   |
> > |  ___________________                                        |
> > | Password 2:                                                 |
> > |  ___________________                                        |
> > | Email (optional):                                           |
> > |  ___________________                                        |
> > | Affiliation (optional; if your editing is related to work): |
> > |  ___________________                                        |
> > |                                                             |
> >  -------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I.e.
> >
> >  -------------------------------------------------------------
> > |                                                             |
> > | [ "Gryllida (FOO)" in large green font ]                    |
> > |                                                             |
> > | Username:                                                   |
> > |  _Gryllida__________                                        |
> > | Password:                                                   |
> > |  ___________________                                        |
> > | Password 2:                                                 |
> > |  ___________________                                        |
> > | Email (optional):                                           |
> > |  ___________________                                        |
> > | Affiliation (optional; if your editing is related to work): |
> > |  _FOO_______________                                        |
> > |                                                             |
> >  -------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Gryllida.
> >
> >
> > On Sun, 23 Feb 2014, at 1:25, rupert THURNER wrote:
> > > hi,
> > >
> > > could wmf please extend the mediawiki software in the following way:
> > > 1. it should knows "groups"
> > > 2. allow users to store an arbitrary number of groups with their
> profile
> > > 3. allow to select one of the "group"s joined to an edit when saving
> > > 4. add a checkbox "COI" to an edit, meaning "potential conflict of
> > interest"
> > > 5. display and filter edits marked with COI in a different color in
> > history
> > > views
> > > 6. display and filter edits done for a group in a different color in
> > > history views
> > > 7. allow members of a group to receive notifications done on the group
> > page,
> > >    or when a group is mentioned in an edit/comment/talk page.
> > >
> > > reason:
> > > currently it is quite cumbersome to participate as an organisation. it
> is
> > > quite cumbersome for people as well to detect COI edits. the most
> > prominent
> > > examples are employees of the wikimedia foundation, and GLAMs. users
> tend
> > > to create multiple accounts, and try to create "company accounts". the
> > main
> > > reason for this behaviour are (examples, but of course valid general):
> > > * have a feedback page / notification page for the swiss federal
> archive
> > > for other users
> > > * make clear that an edit is done private or as wmf employee
> > >
> > > this then would allow the community to create new policies, e.g. the
> > german
> > > community might cease using company accounts, and switch over to this
> > > system. this proposal is purely technical. current policies can still
> be
> > > applied if people do not need something else, e.g. wmf employees may
> > > continue to use "sue gardner (wmf)" accounts.
> > >
> > > what you think?
> > >
> > > best regards,
> > > rupert
> > > -------------------
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Affiliation in username

Federico Leva (Nemo)
In reply to this post by Amir E. Aharoni
Amir E. Aharoni, 20/04/2014 08:39:
> Silly technical remark: Everybody, please stop doing this with parentheses.
> It breaks in right to left languages. Gary-WMF is just as readable, and
> doesn't have this problem. Thanks for the attention.

Your suggestion works against the built-in assumptions of MediaWiki for
disambiguations.
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Pipe_trick

Nemo

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Affiliation in username

liangent
On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Amir E. Aharoni, 20/04/2014 08:39:
>
>  Silly technical remark: Everybody, please stop doing this with
>> parentheses.
>> It breaks in right to left languages. Gary-WMF is just as readable, and
>> doesn't have this problem. Thanks for the attention.
>>
>
> Your suggestion works against the built-in assumptions of MediaWiki for
> disambiguations.
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Pipe_trick
>

Then "Gary, WMF"?


>
> Nemo
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Affiliation in username

Isarra Yos
On 20/04/14 11:50, Liangent wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 20, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> Amir E. Aharoni, 20/04/2014 08:39:
>>
>>   Silly technical remark: Everybody, please stop doing this with
>>> parentheses.
>>> It breaks in right to left languages. Gary-WMF is just as readable, and
>>> doesn't have this problem. Thanks for the attention.
>>>
>> Your suggestion works against the built-in assumptions of MediaWiki for
>> disambiguations.
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Pipe_trick
>>
> Then "Gary, WMF"?
>
>
>> Nemo
>>
>>
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>> Wikimedia-l mailing list
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>>
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Removing the affiliation from the name itself and adding it as a group
would allow the mediawiki to format the name and group in a way that
makes sense for the given language. Keep to the parentheses for english
and such, do other things for ones where that doesn't work or wouldn't
be the norm.

-I

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] Affiliation in username

Chris McKenna
On Sun, 20 Apr 2014, Isarra Yos wrote:
>
> Removing the affiliation from the name itself and adding it as a group
> would allow the mediawiki to format the name and group in a way that
> makes sense for the given language. Keep to the parentheses for english
> and such, do other things for ones where that doesn't work or wouldn't
> be the norm.
>

That sounds like a good plan, although would need to be a plan to cope
with duplicates, e.g. user:Whatamidoing and user:Whatamidoing (WMF) both
exist.

Chris

----
Chris McKenna

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The essential things in life are seen not with the eyes,
but with the heart

Antoine de Saint Exupery


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