[Wikimedia-l] fundraising blocked in Russia

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[Wikimedia-l] fundraising blocked in Russia

rubin.happy
Hello, guys!

We received some alerts from our users that donations are now blocked when
user is from Russia:
http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc237184.png

The only WMF comment I received in #wikimedia-fundraising was that "we
don't run fundraising in Russia at the moment". Russia is now blacklisted
like Libya, like Congo, like Iraq.

I always though that WMF is free from politics and tends to be transparent,
but why such a decision was made? And why nobody informed us (at least,
Wikimedia RU) about it?

Now we are starting to receive negative feedbacks from users and readers
who treat WMF as a politically motivated organization, not a non-profit
organization promoting free knowledge.

And as we got no comments from Fundraising team and have no idea what
happened, we at Wikimedia RU are not able to cope with such negative
publicity.

It's now late evening in Russia, but the messages were already posted to
some top websites of Russia, and this will be promoted quickly via social
networks: so, tomorrow will be a bad day for wiki-movement in our country.

WMF, I want to thank you a lot for your transparency.

rubin16
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Federico Leva (Nemo)
rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now blocked
> when user is from Russia:
> http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc237184.png

Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by
clicking the "Russia" link in
https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try sending a
wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a PayPal
donation?

Nemo

P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] for more information on
how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In case
someone forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Craig Franklin
I'm sure that you're correct here Joseph, but this is another example I
think where the Foundation should have notified the relevant chapter
*before* taking the action, so that they would be ready when the questions
started rolling in.

Unfortunately, I think we're getting back to the bad old days of chapter
and user group press contacts being the last people to find out about
potentially controversial issues like this.

Regards,
Craig Franklin
(personal view only)


On 13 November 2014 10:07, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I would hate to preclude any answer from the foundation. However the laws
> that govern the foundation are that of the US. Given the previous and
> renewed ongoing palaver with Ukraine and the presence of economic sanctions
> and the increasing likelihood of on top of what is already present, I
> imagine this related to that.
>
> Im not sure of what legal risks accepting such donations would expose the
> foundation to. However such precautions have been made in the past relating
> to unrest.
>
> Its no slight on the country or its individuals, just a precautionary
> measure.
>
> Seddon
>  On 12 Nov 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
>>
>>> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now blocked
>>> when user is from Russia:
>>> http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc2371
>>> 84.png
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by clicking
>> the "Russia" link in https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
>> Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try sending a
>> wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a PayPal
>> donation?
>>
>> Nemo
>>
>> P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] for more information on
>> how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In case someone
>> forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fundraiser mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fundraiser mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

David Gerard-2
I'm presuming this is sanctions against Russia kicking in; all sorts
of business has been stopped dead in its tracks, not just charity
donations. There's even serious moves to kick Russia out of the SWIFT
network: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-04/ultimate-sanction-barring-russian-banks-from-swift-money-system
It strikes me as quite unlikely that there's anything at all WMF can
actually do about this. Possibly it could have been handled better,
but that won't change the fact.

On 13 November 2014 00:12, Craig Franklin <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm sure that you're correct here Joseph, but this is another example I
> think where the Foundation should have notified the relevant chapter
> *before* taking the action, so that they would be ready when the questions
> started rolling in.
>
> Unfortunately, I think we're getting back to the bad old days of chapter
> and user group press contacts being the last people to find out about
> potentially controversial issues like this.
>
> Regards,
> Craig Franklin
> (personal view only)
>
>
> On 13 November 2014 10:07, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I would hate to preclude any answer from the foundation. However the laws
>> that govern the foundation are that of the US. Given the previous and
>> renewed ongoing palaver with Ukraine and the presence of economic sanctions
>> and the increasing likelihood of on top of what is already present, I
>> imagine this related to that.
>>
>> Im not sure of what legal risks accepting such donations would expose the
>> foundation to. However such precautions have been made in the past relating
>> to unrest.
>>
>> Its no slight on the country or its individuals, just a precautionary
>> measure.
>>
>> Seddon
>>  On 12 Nov 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
>>>
>>>> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now blocked
>>>> when user is from Russia:
>>>> http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc2371
>>>> 84.png
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by clicking
>>> the "Russia" link in https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
>>> Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try sending a
>>> wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a PayPal
>>> donation?
>>>
>>> Nemo
>>>
>>> P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] for more information on
>>> how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In case someone
>>> forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Fundraiser mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fundraiser mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Milos Rancic-2
I think that this is extremely important moment in the existence of
Wikimedia and contemporary free content movement. The future of the concept
of free knowledge could depend on how Wikimedia positions itself in
relation to this issue and the future similar ones.

This is not about our personal political opinions, this is about very real
consequences, which could define would we have united movement as we know
or just fragments of once great idea. All the lamest Wikipedia edit wars
could look like quite decent past.

Imagine any of our past conflicts. And that could look like a childish game.

This is also the question of how mature our particular and broader
movements are. Are we really a global movement or we are just a sum of
people with good will, strictly determined by our citizenship?

During the last six to seven years we lost few opportunities to become
significant stakeholder on the global stage (cf. contemporary significance
of Facebook). We lost the momentum few times and now we are absolutely
irrelevant as the movement. And if we don't want to lose the movement
itself, we have to be extremely pragmatic from now on.

One very good fact is that it is not anymore a heresy to talk about the
movement instead of data. Yes, our movement is the most important thing to
preserve. Capacity of hard disks and links improved that much, that
preserving data is just a matter of decent organizational work.

Our movement is not just the most important thing to us. In my opinion, our
movement is the best chance of our species to build the future. There were
no and there is no comparable movements.

We have to take this moment extremely seriously and start to work together
on solving numerous obstacles which we'll find in the future.

Our worst-case scenario is to disappear in irrelevance. It will start with
inactive chapters. Formal organization is the most expensive thing to us.
Our events will become less diverse.

Our declining editor community will become less diverse, as well.
Eventually, one by one, Wikipedia in particular languages will become less
important source of information than third party collaborative sums of
knowledge. (Keep in mind that Chinese Wikipedia is not the biggest and the
most useful encyclopedia in Chinese language.)

If we want to keep us as a movement, we have to fight hard for that. It's
not about one challenge, it's about constant challenges which we'll have.
This issue is just the first one.

Wikimedia Foundation's job is to do the best -- and I don't count
conformist answers as valid ones, as the time of plenty is behind us -- to
solve formal obstacles. If the servers have to go to Singapore, they should
go there as soon as possible.

Chapters have to cooperate. That's especially important in relation to the
chapters in the present and future conflict zones. I am aware that such
things are far from an issue presently. However, it could be much harder in
the future.

The rest of us have to take this moment seriously, as well, and do the best
in our personal capacities. That means writing Wikipedia and contributing
to other projects. That means introducing one friend per month into
contributing to Wikimedia projects. That means having active friendships
with people from the other parts of the world.
On Nov 13, 2014 2:01 AM, "David Gerard" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm presuming this is sanctions against Russia kicking in; all sorts
> of business has been stopped dead in its tracks, not just charity
> donations. There's even serious moves to kick Russia out of the SWIFT
> network:
> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-04/ultimate-sanction-barring-russian-banks-from-swift-money-system
> It strikes me as quite unlikely that there's anything at all WMF can
> actually do about this. Possibly it could have been handled better,
> but that won't change the fact.
>
> On 13 November 2014 00:12, Craig Franklin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > I'm sure that you're correct here Joseph, but this is another example I
> > think where the Foundation should have notified the relevant chapter
> > *before* taking the action, so that they would be ready when the
> questions
> > started rolling in.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I think we're getting back to the bad old days of chapter
> > and user group press contacts being the last people to find out about
> > potentially controversial issues like this.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Craig Franklin
> > (personal view only)
> >
> >
> > On 13 November 2014 10:07, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I would hate to preclude any answer from the foundation. However the
> laws
> >> that govern the foundation are that of the US. Given the previous and
> >> renewed ongoing palaver with Ukraine and the presence of economic
> sanctions
> >> and the increasing likelihood of on top of what is already present, I
> >> imagine this related to that.
> >>
> >> Im not sure of what legal risks accepting such donations would expose
> the
> >> foundation to. However such precautions have been made in the past
> relating
> >> to unrest.
> >>
> >> Its no slight on the country or its individuals, just a precautionary
> >> measure.
> >>
> >> Seddon
> >>  On 12 Nov 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
> >>>
> >>>> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now blocked
> >>>> when user is from Russia:
> >>>>
> http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc2371
> >>>> 84.png
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by
> clicking
> >>> the "Russia" link in https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
> >>> Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try sending a
> >>> wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a
> PayPal
> >>> donation?
> >>>
> >>> Nemo
> >>>
> >>> P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] for more information
> on
> >>> how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In case
> someone
> >>> forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Fundraiser mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Fundraiser mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

rubin.happy
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
There were no recent changes in sanctions and I don't understand why this
turn off in donations happened just now.

Ideas about SWIFT kick out are not relevant here, as it was just a
discussion some months ago but no such action happened.

Furthermore, the sanctions were placed on particular companies and
individuals, there were no prohibitions against all financial relations.
So, I could understand if donations weren't accepted when they were sent
via a couple of banks under sanctions, but I want to repeat that there is,
for example, no prohibition to receive money from Russians.

rubin16
13 нояб. 2014 г. 4:01 пользователь "David Gerard" <[hidden email]>
написал:

> I'm presuming this is sanctions against Russia kicking in; all sorts
> of business has been stopped dead in its tracks, not just charity
> donations. There's even serious moves to kick Russia out of the SWIFT
> network:
> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-04/ultimate-sanction-barring-russian-banks-from-swift-money-system
> It strikes me as quite unlikely that there's anything at all WMF can
> actually do about this. Possibly it could have been handled better,
> but that won't change the fact.
>
> On 13 November 2014 00:12, Craig Franklin <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > I'm sure that you're correct here Joseph, but this is another example I
> > think where the Foundation should have notified the relevant chapter
> > *before* taking the action, so that they would be ready when the
> questions
> > started rolling in.
> >
> > Unfortunately, I think we're getting back to the bad old days of chapter
> > and user group press contacts being the last people to find out about
> > potentially controversial issues like this.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Craig Franklin
> > (personal view only)
> >
> >
> > On 13 November 2014 10:07, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> I would hate to preclude any answer from the foundation. However the
> laws
> >> that govern the foundation are that of the US. Given the previous and
> >> renewed ongoing palaver with Ukraine and the presence of economic
> sanctions
> >> and the increasing likelihood of on top of what is already present, I
> >> imagine this related to that.
> >>
> >> Im not sure of what legal risks accepting such donations would expose
> the
> >> foundation to. However such precautions have been made in the past
> relating
> >> to unrest.
> >>
> >> Its no slight on the country or its individuals, just a precautionary
> >> measure.
> >>
> >> Seddon
> >>  On 12 Nov 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
> >>>
> >>>> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now blocked
> >>>> when user is from Russia:
> >>>>
> http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc2371
> >>>> 84.png
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by
> clicking
> >>> the "Russia" link in https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
> >>> Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try sending a
> >>> wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a
> PayPal
> >>> donation?
> >>>
> >>> Nemo
> >>>
> >>> P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] for more information
> on
> >>> how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In case
> someone
> >>> forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Fundraiser mailing list
> >>> [hidden email]
> >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Fundraiser mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Lisa Gruwell
Hello rubin16,

We are not running fundraising in Russia at this time, but I want to assure
you that this was not a decision motivated by politics.

We take compliance with appropriate laws very seriously in everything we
do. Out of an abundance of caution, we're not fundraising in Russia right
now.

Of course, the fact that we are not fundraising in Russia does and will not
have any impact at all on how the WMF continues to support the Russian
language Wikipedia, its sister projects, and the Russian Wikimedian
community.

Thank you,
Lisa Gruwell

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:44 PM, rubin.happy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There were no recent changes in sanctions and I don't understand why this
> turn off in donations happened just now.
>
> Ideas about SWIFT kick out are not relevant here, as it was just a
> discussion some months ago but no such action happened.
>
> Furthermore, the sanctions were placed on particular companies and
> individuals, there were no prohibitions against all financial relations.
> So, I could understand if donations weren't accepted when they were sent
> via a couple of banks under sanctions, but I want to repeat that there is,
> for example, no prohibition to receive money from Russians.
>
> rubin16
> 13 нояб. 2014 г. 4:01 пользователь "David Gerard" <[hidden email]>
> написал:
>
> > I'm presuming this is sanctions against Russia kicking in; all sorts
> > of business has been stopped dead in its tracks, not just charity
> > donations. There's even serious moves to kick Russia out of the SWIFT
> > network:
> >
> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-04/ultimate-sanction-barring-russian-banks-from-swift-money-system
> > It strikes me as quite unlikely that there's anything at all WMF can
> > actually do about this. Possibly it could have been handled better,
> > but that won't change the fact.
> >
> > On 13 November 2014 00:12, Craig Franklin <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > I'm sure that you're correct here Joseph, but this is another example I
> > > think where the Foundation should have notified the relevant chapter
> > > *before* taking the action, so that they would be ready when the
> > questions
> > > started rolling in.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, I think we're getting back to the bad old days of
> chapter
> > > and user group press contacts being the last people to find out about
> > > potentially controversial issues like this.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Craig Franklin
> > > (personal view only)
> > >
> > >
> > > On 13 November 2014 10:07, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would hate to preclude any answer from the foundation. However the
> > laws
> > >> that govern the foundation are that of the US. Given the previous and
> > >> renewed ongoing palaver with Ukraine and the presence of economic
> > sanctions
> > >> and the increasing likelihood of on top of what is already present, I
> > >> imagine this related to that.
> > >>
> > >> Im not sure of what legal risks accepting such donations would expose
> > the
> > >> foundation to. However such precautions have been made in the past
> > relating
> > >> to unrest.
> > >>
> > >> Its no slight on the country or its individuals, just a precautionary
> > >> measure.
> > >>
> > >> Seddon
> > >>  On 12 Nov 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
> > >>>
> > >>>> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now
> blocked
> > >>>> when user is from Russia:
> > >>>>
> > http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc2371
> > >>>> 84.png
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by
> > clicking
> > >>> the "Russia" link in
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
> > >>> Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try sending a
> > >>> wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a
> > PayPal
> > >>> donation?
> > >>>
> > >>> Nemo
> > >>>
> > >>> P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] for more
> information
> > on
> > >>> how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In case
> > someone
> > >>> forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Fundraiser mailing list
> > >>> [hidden email]
> > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Fundraiser mailing list
> > >> [hidden email]
> > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > >>
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
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> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Milos Rancic-2
What about a notice for users from Russia: "We are not able to process
money from Russia now, but you are welcome to donate to Wikimedia Russia by
using this bank account" -- if nothing more creative could be imagined?
On Nov 13, 2014 4:46 AM, "Lisa Gruwell" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello rubin16,
>
> We are not running fundraising in Russia at this time, but I want to assure
> you that this was not a decision motivated by politics.
>
> We take compliance with appropriate laws very seriously in everything we
> do. Out of an abundance of caution, we're not fundraising in Russia right
> now.
>
> Of course, the fact that we are not fundraising in Russia does and will not
> have any impact at all on how the WMF continues to support the Russian
> language Wikipedia, its sister projects, and the Russian Wikimedian
> community.
>
> Thank you,
> Lisa Gruwell
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:44 PM, rubin.happy <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > There were no recent changes in sanctions and I don't understand why this
> > turn off in donations happened just now.
> >
> > Ideas about SWIFT kick out are not relevant here, as it was just a
> > discussion some months ago but no such action happened.
> >
> > Furthermore, the sanctions were placed on particular companies and
> > individuals, there were no prohibitions against all financial relations.
> > So, I could understand if donations weren't accepted when they were sent
> > via a couple of banks under sanctions, but I want to repeat that there
> is,
> > for example, no prohibition to receive money from Russians.
> >
> > rubin16
> > 13 нояб. 2014 г. 4:01 пользователь "David Gerard" <[hidden email]>
> > написал:
> >
> > > I'm presuming this is sanctions against Russia kicking in; all sorts
> > > of business has been stopped dead in its tracks, not just charity
> > > donations. There's even serious moves to kick Russia out of the SWIFT
> > > network:
> > >
> >
> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-04/ultimate-sanction-barring-russian-banks-from-swift-money-system
> > > It strikes me as quite unlikely that there's anything at all WMF can
> > > actually do about this. Possibly it could have been handled better,
> > > but that won't change the fact.
> > >
> > > On 13 November 2014 00:12, Craig Franklin <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I'm sure that you're correct here Joseph, but this is another
> example I
> > > > think where the Foundation should have notified the relevant chapter
> > > > *before* taking the action, so that they would be ready when the
> > > questions
> > > > started rolling in.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, I think we're getting back to the bad old days of
> > chapter
> > > > and user group press contacts being the last people to find out about
> > > > potentially controversial issues like this.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Craig Franklin
> > > > (personal view only)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 13 November 2014 10:07, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I would hate to preclude any answer from the foundation. However the
> > > laws
> > > >> that govern the foundation are that of the US. Given the previous
> and
> > > >> renewed ongoing palaver with Ukraine and the presence of economic
> > > sanctions
> > > >> and the increasing likelihood of on top of what is already present,
> I
> > > >> imagine this related to that.
> > > >>
> > > >> Im not sure of what legal risks accepting such donations would
> expose
> > > the
> > > >> foundation to. However such precautions have been made in the past
> > > relating
> > > >> to unrest.
> > > >>
> > > >> Its no slight on the country or its individuals, just a
> precautionary
> > > >> measure.
> > > >>
> > > >> Seddon
> > > >>  On 12 Nov 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now
> > blocked
> > > >>>> when user is from Russia:
> > > >>>>
> > >
> http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc2371
> > > >>>> 84.png
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by
> > > clicking
> > > >>> the "Russia" link in
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
> > > >>> Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try
> sending a
> > > >>> wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a
> > > PayPal
> > > >>> donation?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Nemo
> > > >>>
> > > >>> P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] for more
> > information
> > > on
> > > >>> how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In case
> > > someone
> > > >>> forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Fundraiser mailing list
> > > >>> [hidden email]
> > > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Fundraiser mailing list
> > > >> [hidden email]
> > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

rubin.happy
In reply to this post by Lisa Gruwell
Hello, Lisa.

Could you, please, provide us with more details?

- why did it happen just now though restrictions due to the US sanctions
were I'mposed quite a long time ago? Probably, you have received some
warning from authorities, haven't you?

- what is the exact problem and applicable legislative restriction? Have
your bank stopped processing of payments from Russia or have something else
happen?

- is it an indefinite stop of fundraising here (till the end of sanctions)?

You know, relations between Russia and the US are not in their perfect
state and this a sensitive question where we need maximum of information to
make readers believe that it is not a political campaign of US-based WMF .

rubin16
13 нояб. 2014 г. 6:46 пользователь "Lisa Gruwell" <[hidden email]>
написал:

> Hello rubin16,
>
> We are not running fundraising in Russia at this time, but I want to assure
> you that this was not a decision motivated by politics.
>
> We take compliance with appropriate laws very seriously in everything we
> do. Out of an abundance of caution, we're not fundraising in Russia right
> now.
>
> Of course, the fact that we are not fundraising in Russia does and will not
> have any impact at all on how the WMF continues to support the Russian
> language Wikipedia, its sister projects, and the Russian Wikimedian
> community.
>
> Thank you,
> Lisa Gruwell
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:44 PM, rubin.happy <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > There were no recent changes in sanctions and I don't understand why this
> > turn off in donations happened just now.
> >
> > Ideas about SWIFT kick out are not relevant here, as it was just a
> > discussion some months ago but no such action happened.
> >
> > Furthermore, the sanctions were placed on particular companies and
> > individuals, there were no prohibitions against all financial relations.
> > So, I could understand if donations weren't accepted when they were sent
> > via a couple of banks under sanctions, but I want to repeat that there
> is,
> > for example, no prohibition to receive money from Russians.
> >
> > rubin16
> > 13 нояб. 2014 г. 4:01 пользователь "David Gerard" <[hidden email]>
> > написал:
> >
> > > I'm presuming this is sanctions against Russia kicking in; all sorts
> > > of business has been stopped dead in its tracks, not just charity
> > > donations. There's even serious moves to kick Russia out of the SWIFT
> > > network:
> > >
> >
> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-04/ultimate-sanction-barring-russian-banks-from-swift-money-system
> > > It strikes me as quite unlikely that there's anything at all WMF can
> > > actually do about this. Possibly it could have been handled better,
> > > but that won't change the fact.
> > >
> > > On 13 November 2014 00:12, Craig Franklin <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I'm sure that you're correct here Joseph, but this is another
> example I
> > > > think where the Foundation should have notified the relevant chapter
> > > > *before* taking the action, so that they would be ready when the
> > > questions
> > > > started rolling in.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, I think we're getting back to the bad old days of
> > chapter
> > > > and user group press contacts being the last people to find out about
> > > > potentially controversial issues like this.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Craig Franklin
> > > > (personal view only)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 13 November 2014 10:07, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I would hate to preclude any answer from the foundation. However the
> > > laws
> > > >> that govern the foundation are that of the US. Given the previous
> and
> > > >> renewed ongoing palaver with Ukraine and the presence of economic
> > > sanctions
> > > >> and the increasing likelihood of on top of what is already present,
> I
> > > >> imagine this related to that.
> > > >>
> > > >> Im not sure of what legal risks accepting such donations would
> expose
> > > the
> > > >> foundation to. However such precautions have been made in the past
> > > relating
> > > >> to unrest.
> > > >>
> > > >> Its no slight on the country or its individuals, just a
> precautionary
> > > >> measure.
> > > >>
> > > >> Seddon
> > > >>  On 12 Nov 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)" <[hidden email]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now
> > blocked
> > > >>>> when user is from Russia:
> > > >>>>
> > >
> http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc2371
> > > >>>> 84.png
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by
> > > clicking
> > > >>> the "Russia" link in
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
> > > >>> Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try
> sending a
> > > >>> wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a
> > > PayPal
> > > >>> donation?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Nemo
> > > >>>
> > > >>> P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] for more
> > information
> > > on
> > > >>> how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In case
> > > someone
> > > >>> forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Fundraiser mailing list
> > > >>> [hidden email]
> > > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Fundraiser mailing list
> > > >> [hidden email]
> > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Peter Southwood
In reply to this post by Lisa Gruwell
Are you accepting donations from Russia at present?

Peter Southwood

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lisa Gruwell
Sent: 13 November 2014 05:46 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Hello rubin16,

We are not running fundraising in Russia at this time, but I want to assure you that this was not a decision motivated by politics.

We take compliance with appropriate laws very seriously in everything we do. Out of an abundance of caution, we're not fundraising in Russia right now.

Of course, the fact that we are not fundraising in Russia does and will not have any impact at all on how the WMF continues to support the Russian language Wikipedia, its sister projects, and the Russian Wikimedian community.

Thank you,
Lisa Gruwell

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:44 PM, rubin.happy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> There were no recent changes in sanctions and I don't understand why
> this turn off in donations happened just now.
>
> Ideas about SWIFT kick out are not relevant here, as it was just a
> discussion some months ago but no such action happened.
>
> Furthermore, the sanctions were placed on particular companies and
> individuals, there were no prohibitions against all financial relations.
> So, I could understand if donations weren't accepted when they were
> sent via a couple of banks under sanctions, but I want to repeat that
> there is, for example, no prohibition to receive money from Russians.
>
> rubin16
> 13 нояб. 2014 г. 4:01 пользователь "David Gerard" <[hidden email]>
> написал:
>
> > I'm presuming this is sanctions against Russia kicking in; all sorts
> > of business has been stopped dead in its tracks, not just charity
> > donations. There's even serious moves to kick Russia out of the
> > SWIFT
> > network:
> >
> http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-04/ultimate-sanction-barr
> ing-russian-banks-from-swift-money-system
> > It strikes me as quite unlikely that there's anything at all WMF can
> > actually do about this. Possibly it could have been handled better,
> > but that won't change the fact.
> >
> > On 13 November 2014 00:12, Craig Franklin
> > <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > I'm sure that you're correct here Joseph, but this is another
> > > example I think where the Foundation should have notified the
> > > relevant chapter
> > > *before* taking the action, so that they would be ready when the
> > questions
> > > started rolling in.
> > >
> > > Unfortunately, I think we're getting back to the bad old days of
> chapter
> > > and user group press contacts being the last people to find out
> > > about potentially controversial issues like this.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Craig Franklin
> > > (personal view only)
> > >
> > >
> > > On 13 November 2014 10:07, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would hate to preclude any answer from the foundation. However
> > >> the
> > laws
> > >> that govern the foundation are that of the US. Given the previous
> > >> and renewed ongoing palaver with Ukraine and the presence of
> > >> economic
> > sanctions
> > >> and the increasing likelihood of on top of what is already
> > >> present, I imagine this related to that.
> > >>
> > >> Im not sure of what legal risks accepting such donations would
> > >> expose
> > the
> > >> foundation to. However such precautions have been made in the
> > >> past
> > relating
> > >> to unrest.
> > >>
> > >> Its no slight on the country or its individuals, just a
> > >> precautionary measure.
> > >>
> > >> Seddon
> > >>  On 12 Nov 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)"
> > >> <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
> > >>>
> > >>>> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now
> blocked
> > >>>> when user is from Russia:
> > >>>>
> > http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc
> > 2371
> > >>>> 84.png
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by
> > clicking
> > >>> the "Russia" link in
> https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
> > >>> Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try
> > >>> sending a wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN
> > >>> GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a
> > PayPal
> > >>> donation?
> > >>>
> > >>> Nemo
> > >>>
> > >>> P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] for more
> information
> > on
> > >>> how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In
> > >>> case
> > someone
> > >>> forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.
> > >>>
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> Fundraiser mailing list
> > >>> [hidden email]
> > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Fundraiser mailing list
> > >> [hidden email]
> > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > >>
> > >>
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
_______________________________________________
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[hidden email]
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] fundraising blocked in Russia

Liam Wyatt
To follow up on Peter's comment:

Does "we're not fundraising in Russia right now" mean that the WMF isn't
proactively seeking donations with a fundraising campaign visible on the
Russian language Wikipedia, or, does it mean that the WMF is
disallowing/refusing donations coming from Russia/in Roubles?

IF it is the first option, then that's the WMF's choice :-)
IF it is the second option, then why wasn't the local community/chapter
informed or some Russian-language documentation prepared in advance?

-Liam

On Thursday, 13 November 2014, Peter Southwood <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Are you accepting donations from Russia at present?
>
> Peter Southwood
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] <javascript:;> [mailto:
> [hidden email] <javascript:;>] On Behalf Of Lisa
> Gruwell
> Sent: 13 November 2014 05:46 AM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia
>
> Hello rubin16,
>
> We are not running fundraising in Russia at this time, but I want to
> assure you that this was not a decision motivated by politics.
>
> We take compliance with appropriate laws very seriously in everything we
> do. Out of an abundance of caution, we're not fundraising in Russia right
> now.
>
> Of course, the fact that we are not fundraising in Russia does and will
> not have any impact at all on how the WMF continues to support the Russian
> language Wikipedia, its sister projects, and the Russian Wikimedian
> community.
>
> Thank you,
> Lisa Gruwell
>
> On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:44 PM, rubin.happy <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
>
> > There were no recent changes in sanctions and I don't understand why
> > this turn off in donations happened just now.
> >
> > Ideas about SWIFT kick out are not relevant here, as it was just a
> > discussion some months ago but no such action happened.
> >
> > Furthermore, the sanctions were placed on particular companies and
> > individuals, there were no prohibitions against all financial relations.
> > So, I could understand if donations weren't accepted when they were
> > sent via a couple of banks under sanctions, but I want to repeat that
> > there is, for example, no prohibition to receive money from Russians.
> >
> > rubin16
> > 13 нояб. 2014 г. 4:01 пользователь "David Gerard" <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > написал:
> >
> > > I'm presuming this is sanctions against Russia kicking in; all sorts
> > > of business has been stopped dead in its tracks, not just charity
> > > donations. There's even serious moves to kick Russia out of the
> > > SWIFT
> > > network:
> > >
> > http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-04/ultimate-sanction-barr
> > ing-russian-banks-from-swift-money-system
> > > It strikes me as quite unlikely that there's anything at all WMF can
> > > actually do about this. Possibly it could have been handled better,
> > > but that won't change the fact.
> > >
> > > On 13 November 2014 00:12, Craig Franklin
> > > <[hidden email] <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > > > I'm sure that you're correct here Joseph, but this is another
> > > > example I think where the Foundation should have notified the
> > > > relevant chapter
> > > > *before* taking the action, so that they would be ready when the
> > > questions
> > > > started rolling in.
> > > >
> > > > Unfortunately, I think we're getting back to the bad old days of
> > chapter
> > > > and user group press contacts being the last people to find out
> > > > about potentially controversial issues like this.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Craig Franklin
> > > > (personal view only)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 13 November 2014 10:07, Joseph Seddon <[hidden email]
> <javascript:;>>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I would hate to preclude any answer from the foundation. However
> > > >> the
> > > laws
> > > >> that govern the foundation are that of the US. Given the previous
> > > >> and renewed ongoing palaver with Ukraine and the presence of
> > > >> economic
> > > sanctions
> > > >> and the increasing likelihood of on top of what is already
> > > >> present, I imagine this related to that.
> > > >>
> > > >> Im not sure of what legal risks accepting such donations would
> > > >> expose
> > > the
> > > >> foundation to. However such precautions have been made in the
> > > >> past
> > > relating
> > > >> to unrest.
> > > >>
> > > >> Its no slight on the country or its individuals, just a
> > > >> precautionary measure.
> > > >>
> > > >> Seddon
> > > >>  On 12 Nov 2014 19:48, "Federico Leva (Nemo)"
> > > >> <[hidden email] <javascript:;>>
> > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> rubin.happy, 12/11/2014 18:48:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> We received some alerts from our users that donations are now
> > blocked
> > > >>>> when user is from Russia:
> > > >>>>
> > > http://habrastorage.org/files/31b/b1f/ec9/31bb1fec9b9e45abb6ac4babcc
> > > 2371
> > > >>>> 84.png
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Thanks for the information. Everyone can see the same warning by
> > > clicking
> > > >>> the "Russia" link in
> > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Ways_to_Give
> > > >>> Through what channels are donations blocked? Did anyone try
> > > >>> sending a wire to the EU (SEPA) account (IBAN
> > > >>> GB54CHAS60924241034640), or a
> > > PayPal
> > > >>> donation?
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Nemo
> > > >>>
> > > >>> P.s.: ROTFLOL "Please email [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> for more
> > information
> > > on
> > > >>> how to make a bank transfer to the Wikimedia Foundation." In
> > > >>> case
> > > someone
> > > >>> forgets there is an ocean between Europe and USA.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> _______________________________________________
> > > >>> Fundraiser mailing list
> > > >>> [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Fundraiser mailing list
> > > >> [hidden email] <javascript:;>
> > > >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/fundraiser
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > [hidden email] <javascript:;>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Dorożyński Janusz (4-webd)
In reply to this post by Lisa Gruwell
| -----Original Message-----
| From: [hidden email] [mailto:wikimedia-l-
| [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lisa Gruwell
| Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 4:46 AM
/
| We are not running fundraising in Russia at this time, but I want to assure you
| that this was not a decision motivated by politics.

Hi Lisa!

Well, it's clear - now foundation is not running fundraising in Russia. But, at what time foundation halted this one, if it ever was carried out? Could you kindly give us the exact date?

        Regards, Janusz "Ency" Dorożyński


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Geoff Brigham
In reply to this post by rubin.happy
Hello rubin16 and all,

I wanted to follow up on Lisa's email.  As she said, the decision to limit
fundraising in Russia was not a political decision or a response to
sanctions or US laws on Russia.

We are a diverse, global movement that spans the world, and we exist mostly
online. However, our work takes place in the physical world, and each
country has its own unique operating environment. At the WMF, we are
constantly assessing what this means for the work of the movement.

In that context, we feel that laws in Russia offer a number of possible
interpretations. So, out of an abundance of caution, we are not taking
donations from Russia right now.  If we feel the situation changes, we'll
let people know.

As Lisa also said, this does and will not have any impact at all on how the
WMF continues to support the Russian language Wikipedia, and its sister
projects. We pool our funding and make our budget decisions independently
from the geographical source, if any, of the funding.

We hear your point on transparency and advance notice, and it is a fair
one. That said, sometimes we will need to quickly pause fundraising
operations in different places while we gain clarity around how best to
operate.  We are making numerous decisions every day to respond to a wide
variety of issues and considerations. I would like to commit to advance
notice, but I don't think that will always be possible given the need for
flexibility and speed at times. Nevertheless, I am reflecting on how to
better address an issue like this in the future.

I appreciate the additional questions, but, as these are matters currently
under consideration, I'm not in a position to share further right now.

Thank you,

Geoff
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Yaroslav M. Blanter
On 13.11.2014 21:08, Geoff Brigham wrote:
> Hello rubin16 and all,
>
...
> I appreciate the additional questions, but, as these are matters
> currently
> under consideration, I'm not in a position to share further right now.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Geoff

Hi Geoff,

thanks for your clarification.

As I guess everybody on this list knows, I am not a fan of Wikimedia
Russia to put it mildly. I kind of understand why you did not want to
give an advance notice. But I have difficulties understanding why you
did not notify them AFTER you stopped accepting donations from Russia,
so that they learn about it from a random posting at the third-party
website.

Cheers
Yaroslav

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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

rupert THURNER-2
In reply to this post by Geoff Brigham
Hi geoff,  would it be an option to just link  to the Russian chapter's
page for donations?

Rupert
On Nov 13, 2014 9:08 PM, "Geoff Brigham" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello rubin16 and all,
>
> I wanted to follow up on Lisa's email.  As she said, the decision to limit
> fundraising in Russia was not a political decision or a response to
> sanctions or US laws on Russia.
>
> We are a diverse, global movement that spans the world, and we exist mostly
> online. However, our work takes place in the physical world, and each
> country has its own unique operating environment. At the WMF, we are
> constantly assessing what this means for the work of the movement.
>
> In that context, we feel that laws in Russia offer a number of possible
> interpretations. So, out of an abundance of caution, we are not taking
> donations from Russia right now.  If we feel the situation changes, we'll
> let people know.
>
> As Lisa also said, this does and will not have any impact at all on how the
> WMF continues to support the Russian language Wikipedia, and its sister
> projects. We pool our funding and make our budget decisions independently
> from the geographical source, if any, of the funding.
>
> We hear your point on transparency and advance notice, and it is a fair
> one. That said, sometimes we will need to quickly pause fundraising
> operations in different places while we gain clarity around how best to
> operate.  We are making numerous decisions every day to respond to a wide
> variety of issues and considerations. I would like to commit to advance
> notice, but I don't think that will always be possible given the need for
> flexibility and speed at times. Nevertheless, I am reflecting on how to
> better address an issue like this in the future.
>
> I appreciate the additional questions, but, as these are matters currently
> under consideration, I'm not in a position to share further right now.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Geoff
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

rubin.happy
In reply to this post by Geoff Brigham
Hi, Geoff!

Thank you for your answer.

The main question remains the same: what particular local legislature are
you considering as a risk at the moment? Probably, we can help you in its
assessment from our local view or we can start our work on some amendments
to our laws so that the issue will be somehow solved in the future (we
already have some successful experience in it, for example - <
http://blog.wikimedia.org/2014/03/17/wikimedia-ru-changes-russian-civil-code/
>).

I do understand that you are in the process of the assessment of current
situation, we are not asking you for final decisions or conclusions, and I
am not going to put WMF in charge of the preliminary thoughts shown.  At
least we would be happy to hear the reason of the fundraising stopped
yesterday (or some days ago) but not a month ago/a year ago: we have
difficult legislature, it's not to easy to work for us, but this is a
permanent situation. There were no significant legislature updates in the
recent time that we are aware of, that's why we still don't understand what
could change you assessment.

Best regards,
Linar

2014-11-13 23:08 GMT+03:00 Geoff Brigham <[hidden email]>:

> Hello rubin16 and all,
>
> I wanted to follow up on Lisa's email.  As she said, the decision to limit
> fundraising in Russia was not a political decision or a response to
> sanctions or US laws on Russia.
>
> We are a diverse, global movement that spans the world, and we exist mostly
> online. However, our work takes place in the physical world, and each
> country has its own unique operating environment. At the WMF, we are
> constantly assessing what this means for the work of the movement.
>
> In that context, we feel that laws in Russia offer a number of possible
> interpretations. So, out of an abundance of caution, we are not taking
> donations from Russia right now.  If we feel the situation changes, we'll
> let people know.
>
> As Lisa also said, this does and will not have any impact at all on how the
> WMF continues to support the Russian language Wikipedia, and its sister
> projects. We pool our funding and make our budget decisions independently
> from the geographical source, if any, of the funding.
>
> We hear your point on transparency and advance notice, and it is a fair
> one. That said, sometimes we will need to quickly pause fundraising
> operations in different places while we gain clarity around how best to
> operate.  We are making numerous decisions every day to respond to a wide
> variety of issues and considerations. I would like to commit to advance
> notice, but I don't think that will always be possible given the need for
> flexibility and speed at times. Nevertheless, I am reflecting on how to
> better address an issue like this in the future.
>
> I appreciate the additional questions, but, as these are matters currently
> under consideration, I'm not in a position to share further right now.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Geoff
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Lodewijk
In reply to this post by Geoff Brigham
Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the explanation - much clearer to me now! I can understand it is
not always possible to give advance notice - I'm mainly suggesting to give
notice when possible (even afterwards) to the people who may have to face
the journalists/angry donors. The level of detail you describe above seems
to go a long way in that.

Best,
Lodewijk

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Geoff Brigham <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Hello rubin16 and all,
>
> I wanted to follow up on Lisa's email.  As she said, the decision to limit
> fundraising in Russia was not a political decision or a response to
> sanctions or US laws on Russia.
>
> We are a diverse, global movement that spans the world, and we exist mostly
> online. However, our work takes place in the physical world, and each
> country has its own unique operating environment. At the WMF, we are
> constantly assessing what this means for the work of the movement.
>
> In that context, we feel that laws in Russia offer a number of possible
> interpretations. So, out of an abundance of caution, we are not taking
> donations from Russia right now.  If we feel the situation changes, we'll
> let people know.
>
> As Lisa also said, this does and will not have any impact at all on how the
> WMF continues to support the Russian language Wikipedia, and its sister
> projects. We pool our funding and make our budget decisions independently
> from the geographical source, if any, of the funding.
>
> We hear your point on transparency and advance notice, and it is a fair
> one. That said, sometimes we will need to quickly pause fundraising
> operations in different places while we gain clarity around how best to
> operate.  We are making numerous decisions every day to respond to a wide
> variety of issues and considerations. I would like to commit to advance
> notice, but I don't think that will always be possible given the need for
> flexibility and speed at times. Nevertheless, I am reflecting on how to
> better address an issue like this in the future.
>
> I appreciate the additional questions, but, as these are matters currently
> under consideration, I'm not in a position to share further right now.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Geoff
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Dorożyński Janusz (4-webd)
In reply to this post by Geoff Brigham
| -----Original Message-----
| From: [hidden email] [mailto:wikimedia-l-
| [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Geoff Brigham
| Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:08 PM
/
| Hello rubin16 and all,
|
| I wanted to follow up on Lisa's email.  As she said, the decision to limit
| fundraising in Russia was not a political decision or a response to sanctions or
| US laws on Russia. ...

Geoff, I do not share the satisfaction towards your above statement.

The more words, the less clarity. The less respect for others. The more you deny something the more it is likely.

We, me have not received answers to few simple questions. Instead, we received strenuous ensure that this is not a political issue, that matters are under consideration, that this will not have any impact, and so on and so on. That is why I personally believe that this is a political issue. Or ... but never mind, I do not want to offend anyone.

And not as the opposite, but great respect and thanks for Rubin's efforts to disclose this mysterious issue.

        Regards, Janusz "Ency" Dorożyński


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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Milos Rancic-2
In reply to this post by Geoff Brigham
Geoff (and others from WMF), in the situations like this one is, it is much
less important why you did something than how you did something.

Global tensions are high, they could become the past in a year, but we
could be the main losers of the present tensions.

We depend on trust of people all over the world that we are doing one
extremely important and noble thing.

If you really didn't have any option to direct donors to Wikimedia Russia,
just one more sentence inside of the message would change the attitude: "We
don't run fundraising in Russia at the moment AND we are working to solve
the issue as soon as possible." -- if you give a link toward a blog post
where you are explaining what's the problem, even better. That makes the
difference.

Everything is fragile now and I am not willing to elaborate the worst-case
scenario. The point is that it's not anymore about things which could be
solved with a good will gesture inside of the movement. If something starts
going wrong, it would be extremely hard to fix it.

So, please (in Serbian, we use "please" just in exceptional situations), be
careful. One not well worded message could cost us a lot.
 On Nov 13, 2014 9:08 PM, "Geoff Brigham" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello rubin16 and all,
>
> I wanted to follow up on Lisa's email.  As she said, the decision to limit
> fundraising in Russia was not a political decision or a response to
> sanctions or US laws on Russia.
>
> We are a diverse, global movement that spans the world, and we exist mostly
> online. However, our work takes place in the physical world, and each
> country has its own unique operating environment. At the WMF, we are
> constantly assessing what this means for the work of the movement.
>
> In that context, we feel that laws in Russia offer a number of possible
> interpretations. So, out of an abundance of caution, we are not taking
> donations from Russia right now.  If we feel the situation changes, we'll
> let people know.
>
> As Lisa also said, this does and will not have any impact at all on how the
> WMF continues to support the Russian language Wikipedia, and its sister
> projects. We pool our funding and make our budget decisions independently
> from the geographical source, if any, of the funding.
>
> We hear your point on transparency and advance notice, and it is a fair
> one. That said, sometimes we will need to quickly pause fundraising
> operations in different places while we gain clarity around how best to
> operate.  We are making numerous decisions every day to respond to a wide
> variety of issues and considerations. I would like to commit to advance
> notice, but I don't think that will always be possible given the need for
> flexibility and speed at times. Nevertheless, I am reflecting on how to
> better address an issue like this in the future.
>
> I appreciate the additional questions, but, as these are matters currently
> under consideration, I'm not in a position to share further right now.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Geoff
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
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Re: [Wikimedia-l] [Fundraiser] fundraising blocked in Russia

Lila Tretikov
In reply to this post by Dorożyński Janusz (4-webd)
All --

We do and will continue to defend the freedom knowledge and autonomy of our
sites in every corner of the world.

Due to rapidly changing circumstances in some areas, occasionally we have
to put holds on some activities. Currently we have a hold on fundraising in
Russia while we figure out the changing legal landscape. This is fairly
standard process that we go through many times throughout the year with
multiple regions. We are working as fast as we can towards solving this or
creating an acceptable work-around. We would appreciate your help and
support through this process.

Thank you,
Lila

On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Dorożyński Janusz (4-webd) <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> | -----Original Message-----
> | From: [hidden email] [mailto:wikimedia-l-
> | [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Geoff Brigham
> | Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:08 PM
> /
> | Hello rubin16 and all,
> |
> | I wanted to follow up on Lisa's email.  As she said, the decision to
> limit
> | fundraising in Russia was not a political decision or a response to
> sanctions or
> | US laws on Russia. ...
>
> Geoff, I do not share the satisfaction towards your above statement.
>
> The more words, the less clarity. The less respect for others. The more
> you deny something the more it is likely.
>
> We, me have not received answers to few simple questions. Instead, we
> received strenuous ensure that this is not a political issue, that matters
> are under consideration, that this will not have any impact, and so on and
> so on. That is why I personally believe that this is a political issue. Or
> ... but never mind, I do not want to offend anyone.
>
> And not as the opposite, but great respect and thanks for Rubin's efforts
> to disclose this mysterious issue.
>
>         Regards, Janusz "Ency" Dorożyński
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:[hidden email]?subject=unsubscribe>
>
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