[Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

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[Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

SJ-5
Worth a quick read.  Ranked by votes from a few thousand "branding
professionals and students".

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070126/wr_nm/brands_global_winners_dc

++SJ

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

Tim Starling-2
SJ wrote:
> Worth a quick read.  Ranked by votes from a few thousand "branding
> professionals and students".
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070126/wr_nm/brands_global_winners_dc

It looks like nobody has noticed this, at least on this list. Brandchannel
took this opportunity to hint to their readers that they might want to
contest Wikipedia's deletion of their article.

"(Incidentally, the brandchannel Wikipedia entry was deleted because it
was declared "[a]n article about a real person, group of people, band,
club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or
significance of its subject." We'd like to think we do, in fact, assert
the important or significance of our subject—and 90,000 subscribers like
yourselves can't be wrong. If you agree, please consider launching what
the site calls a deletion review.)"

http://brandchannel.com/start1.asp?fa_id=352

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

David Goodman
The deleted article may not have included the word "notable" in the
first sentence. articles have been sent to Speedy for that alone. -DGG

On 1/27/07, Tim Starling <[hidden email]> wrote:

> SJ wrote:
> > Worth a quick read.  Ranked by votes from a few thousand "branding
> > professionals and students".
> >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070126/wr_nm/brands_global_winners_dc
>
> It looks like nobody has noticed this, at least on this list. Brandchannel
> took this opportunity to hint to their readers that they might want to
> contest Wikipedia's deletion of their article.
>
> "(Incidentally, the brandchannel Wikipedia entry was deleted because it
> was declared "[a]n article about a real person, group of people, band,
> club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or
> significance of its subject." We'd like to think we do, in fact, assert
> the important or significance of our subject—and 90,000 subscribers like
> yourselves can't be wrong. If you agree, please consider launching what
> the site calls a deletion review.)"
>
> http://brandchannel.com/start1.asp?fa_id=352
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


--
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

Tim Starling-2
David Goodman wrote:
> The deleted article may not have included the word "notable" in the
> first sentence. articles have been sent to Speedy for that alone. -DGG
>
> On 1/27/07, Tim Starling <[hidden email]> wrote:
[...]
>>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070126/wr_nm/brands_global_winners_dc
>> It looks like nobody has noticed this, at least on this list. Brandchannel
>> took this opportunity to hint to their readers that they might want to
>> contest Wikipedia's deletion of their article.

Tagged {{db-web}} by an anon and speedied by Aaron Brenneman 6.5 hours
later, which was 1.5 hours after Quarl removed the speedy tag,
recommending AfD/prod in his edit summary. I think that counts as
out-of-process deletion. How about I undelete it and clean it up a bit?
Notable or not, the deleted text does have the tone of an advertisement.

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

Bryan Derksen
Tim Starling wrote:
> Tagged {{db-web}} by an anon and speedied by Aaron Brenneman 6.5 hours
> later, which was 1.5 hours after Quarl removed the speedy tag,
> recommending AfD/prod in his edit summary. I think that counts as
> out-of-process deletion. How about I undelete it and clean it up a bit?
> Notable or not, the deleted text does have the tone of an advertisement.

IMO there's no need to ask in a case as clear as this, just go ahead and
do it. I've already started. :)

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

Tim Starling-2
Bryan Derksen wrote:
> Tim Starling wrote:
>> Tagged {{db-web}} by an anon and speedied by Aaron Brenneman 6.5 hours
>> later, which was 1.5 hours after Quarl removed the speedy tag,
>> recommending AfD/prod in his edit summary. I think that counts as
>> out-of-process deletion. How about I undelete it and clean it up a bit?
>> Notable or not, the deleted text does have the tone of an advertisement.
>
> IMO there's no need to ask in a case as clear as this, just go ahead and
> do it. I've already started. :)

I sent them an email berating them for the uncritical tone of the original
article. Ironically, they published a feature this month about dealing
with negative comment in blogs. Their recommendations about respect,
candour and the importance of facts could easily be extended to
astroturfing in Wikipedia articles.

http://brandchannel.com/features_effect.asp?pf_id=348

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

Roberto Alfonso
Interestingly, this reminds me of a quote in Daniel Terdiman's article
about his entry's AFD:

<<I asked a friend, Business 2.0 magazine senior editor Chris Taylor,
about his Wikipedia entry, which was created in 2005 when he wrote
about Wikipedia for Time magazine.

 "It didn't take long to realize why the entry had been made--and the
timing, right after my authorship of the first Time story on
Wikipedia, made sense," Taylor said. "So after the initial feelings of
flattery and suspicion, I was like, Oh, OK, this is my 'reward' from
the Wiki geeks. I wrote about their baby, so I've arrived.">>

 http://news.com.com/To+delete+Wikipedia+entry+or+not+to+delete+-+page+2/2100-1025_3-6149264-2.html

Regards,
RB

On 1/27/07, Tim Starling <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Bryan Derksen wrote:
> > Tim Starling wrote:
> >> Tagged {{db-web}} by an anon and speedied by Aaron Brenneman 6.5 hours
> >> later, which was 1.5 hours after Quarl removed the speedy tag,
> >> recommending AfD/prod in his edit summary. I think that counts as
> >> out-of-process deletion. How about I undelete it and clean it up a bit?
> >> Notable or not, the deleted text does have the tone of an advertisement.
> >
> > IMO there's no need to ask in a case as clear as this, just go ahead and
> > do it. I've already started. :)
>
> I sent them an email berating them for the uncritical tone of the original
> article. Ironically, they published a feature this month about dealing
> with negative comment in blogs. Their recommendations about respect,
> candour and the importance of facts could easily be extended to
> astroturfing in Wikipedia articles.
>
> http://brandchannel.com/features_effect.asp?pf_id=348
>
> -- Tim Starling
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

Tim Starling-2
Roberto Alfonso wrote:

> Interestingly, this reminds me of a quote in Daniel Terdiman's article
> about his entry's AFD:
>
> <<I asked a friend, Business 2.0 magazine senior editor Chris Taylor,
> about his Wikipedia entry, which was created in 2005 when he wrote
> about Wikipedia for Time magazine.
>
>  "It didn't take long to realize why the entry had been made--and the
> timing, right after my authorship of the first Time story on
> Wikipedia, made sense," Taylor said. "So after the initial feelings of
> flattery and suspicion, I was like, Oh, OK, this is my 'reward' from
> the Wiki geeks. I wrote about their baby, so I've arrived.">>
>
>  http://news.com.com/To+delete+Wikipedia+entry+or+not+to+delete+-+page+2/2100-1025_3-6149264-2.html

That would be a cynical way of looking at it. There's no core policy issue
at stake, the reason for deletion was a poor one. We're just responding to
public criticism by taking a token step in the right direction.

-- Tim Starling


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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

Bryan Derksen
Tim Starling wrote:
> That would be a cynical way of looking at it. There's no core policy issue
> at stake, the reason for deletion was a poor one. We're just responding to
> public criticism by taking a token step in the right direction.

Indeed. And even if this particular website _does_ turn out to be not
particularly notable (I haven't done much checking myself), the proper
way to deal with that IMO would be to redirect to the article on its
parent company [[Interbrand]] and perhaps add a section on it there.
Everyone wins.

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Re: [Wikipedia-l] Brandchannel claims hi brand marks for WP, YT

David Goodman
It is difficult to do accurate procedure when there are large numbers
of items, most of them totally unworthy. It's like traffic court. At
any such review, after looking at a certain number, people get into a
really foul mood and tend to express it.

This sort of thing affects teachers also, and most have worked out
some routine to minimize the effect, such as grading question one for
everybody first & only then doing question two; thats why many use
multiple choice tests, even if they're less accurate. But there the
students are very ready to appeal, and know how.

The immediate solution is for more people to take an interest, and
appeal informally first. and then ask others, and then formally when
necessary.--but only what is necessary, lest the problems escalate.
Besides DRV--which I do not recommend at present-- there's ANB if
someone is really unreasonable.  The sure way to perpetuate the
present situation is to give up and tolerate real abuse.

The longer term way is to devise more narrowly directed rapid
procedure, and fairer procedure for other problems. I suggest it will
be easier to get such change if real problems are called to wider
attention.  -- DGG

On 1/27/07, Bryan Derksen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Tim Starling wrote:
> > That would be a cynical way of looking at it. There's no core policy issue
> > at stake, the reason for deletion was a poor one. We're just responding to
> > public criticism by taking a token step in the right direction.
>
> Indeed. And even if this particular website _does_ turn out to be not
> particularly notable (I haven't done much checking myself), the proper
> way to deal with that IMO would be to redirect to the article on its
> parent company [[Interbrand]] and perhaps add a section on it there.
> Everyone wins.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


--
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.

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