a new category for the living

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a new category for the living

daniwo59
Hello
 
I am writing this to announce the creation of a new category on Wikipedia-English: [[Category:Living people]]. The category should include the articles of all people who are still alive.
 
Before getting into arguments about the scope of this category, I would like to take a moment to explain its importance.
 
With our ever-increasing prominence, it is becoming more and more likely that questionable, unsourced information may sneak into articles, despite all of our goodwill and vigilance. Flagging all articles pertaining to living people will mean that our editors can keep a closer watch on these articles, check new articles more closely as they are created, and help to avoid potential problems.
 
This is not the ultimate solution. It is, however, one step toward a working solution to ensure that our materials are adequately referenced and NPOV and to avoid potential conflicts with the subjects of these articles.
 
Please keep this Category in mind when creating new articles and when reviewing existing articles.
 
Thanks
 
Danny
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Re: a new category for the living

Carbonite
On 1/19/06, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello
>
> I am writing this to announce the creation of a new category on Wikipedia-English: [[Category:Living people]]. The category should include the articles of all people who are still alive.
>
> Before getting into arguments about the scope of this category, I would like to take a moment to explain its importance.
>
> With our ever-increasing prominence, it is becoming more and more likely that questionable, unsourced information may sneak into articles, despite all of our goodwill and vigilance. Flagging all articles pertaining to living people will mean that our editors can keep a closer watch on these articles, check new articles more closely as they are created, and help to avoid potential problems.
>
> This is not the ultimate solution. It is, however, one step toward a working solution to ensure that our materials are adequately referenced and NPOV and to avoid potential conflicts with the subjects of these articles.
>
> Please keep this Category in mind when creating new articles and when reviewing existing articles.

What about implementing a Special page that lists all articles with a
birth date category, but not a death date category? This would
effectively be the same as a "Living People" category (after fixing
articles that mistakenly omit a death category).

Carbonite
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Re: a new category for the living

David Gerard-2
In reply to this post by daniwo59
Danny wrote:

>I am writing this to announce the creation of a new category
>on Wikipedia-English: [[Category:Living people]]. The category
>should include the articles of all people who are still alive.


This is a useful concept - we can set up a meaningful Living Bio
patrol! - but how many biographies do we have? (I would *guess* 90% of
our bio articles would have living subjects.)

Remember that Category:stub was sorted because it became unusably huge
- if your article name didn't start with A, it wouldn't get looked at.
Our living bios *should* be sorted into many categories; presumably we
will have an assiduous Living Bio sorting project?


- d.
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Re: a new category for the living

Chris Jenkinson
David Gerard wrote:
> This is a useful concept - we can set up a meaningful Living Bio
> patrol! - but how many biographies do we have? (I would *guess* 90% of
> our bio articles would have living subjects.)
>
> Remember that Category:stub was sorted because it became unusably huge
> - if your article name didn't start with A, it wouldn't get looked at.
> Our living bios *should* be sorted into many categories; presumably we
> will have an assiduous Living Bio sorting project?

That Wikinews feature which selects articles which are two chosen
categories would be useful.

Chris

--
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[hidden email]

"Mistrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful."
  -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Thus Spoke Zarathustra
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Re: a new category for the living

Bryan Derksen
In reply to this post by Carbonite
Carbonite wrote:
> What about implementing a Special page that lists all articles with a
> birth date category, but not a death date category? This would
> effectively be the same as a "Living People" category (after fixing
> articles that mistakenly omit a death category).
>  
It'd help locate some of those if the living-person list were sorted by
birth year, everyone over 120 years or so old is probably missing a
death date.
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Re: a new category for the living

Abigail Brady
On 19/01/06, Bryan Derksen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Carbonite wrote:
> > What about implementing a Special page that lists all articles with a
> > birth date category, but not a death date category? This would
> > effectively be the same as a "Living People" category (after fixing
> > articles that mistakenly omit a death category).
> >
> It'd help locate some of those if the living-person list were sorted by
> birth year, everyone over 120 years or so old is probably missing a
> death date.

Maybe [[Category:Living person born in 19xx]] categories, which can
feed into the [[Category:Living person]] and [[Category:Born in 19xx]]
?

--
Abi
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Re: a new category for the living

Charles Matthews
In reply to this post by Bryan Derksen
Bryan Derksen wrote

> It'd help locate some of those if the living-person list were sorted by
> birth year, everyone over 120 years or so old is probably missing a death
> date.

I'm beginning to wonder about all this.

Adding [[Category:Living person]] - is that suppposed to be fact-checked or
what?  [[Category:No death date]], that would be fine.

Charles


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Re: a new category for the living

Sean Barrett-2
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charles matthews stated for the record:

> Adding [[Category:Living person]] - is that suppposed to be fact-checked
> or what?  [[Category:No death date]], that would be fine.
>
> Charles

Good point.  I suppose "I shook hands with him this morning" would be
disallowed as original research.

- --
 Sean Barrett     | All life is six-to-five against.
 [hidden email] |
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Re: a new category for the living

Sean Barrett-2
In reply to this post by Charles Matthews
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charles matthews stated for the record:

> Adding [[Category:Living person]] - is that suppposed to be fact-checked
> or what?  [[Category:No death date]], that would be fine.

Quick: provide a citation proving that [[Nancy Reagan]] is still alive.

However, I have it on very good authority that [[Generalissimo Francisco
Franco is still dead]].

- --
 Sean Barrett     | All life is six-to-five against.
 [hidden email] |
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Re: a new category for the living

Phil Boswell
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
"David Gerard" <[hidden email]> wrote in
message news:[hidden email]...
[snip]
> Remember that Category:stub was sorted because it became unusably huge
> - if your article name didn't start with A, it wouldn't get looked at.
> Our living bios *should* be sorted into many categories; presumably we
> will have an assiduous Living Bio sorting project?

I think the difference here would be that it was intended that someone
should actually visit each and every stub article to improve it.

This new category would be used mainly, I suspect, as some sort of RC Filter
so that changes to those biographies can be spotted instantly.

Obviously, it would be handy if it were possible to display an article's
**removal** from a given category as well as other changes :-)
--
Phil
[[en:User:Phil Boswell]]



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Re: a new category for the living

David Boothroyd
In reply to this post by daniwo59
"charles matthews" <[hidden email]> writes:

>Bryan Derksen wrote
>
>>  It'd help locate some of those if the living-person list were sorted by
>>  birth year, everyone over 120 years or so old is probably missing a death
>>  date.
>
>I'm beginning to wonder about all this.
>
>Adding [[Category:Living person]] - is that suppposed to be fact-checked or
>what?  [[Category:No death date]], that would be fine.

A while back I wrote an article about [[Elizabeth Cass]] who was a minor
cause celebre in 1887. She was born in 1863 but never hit the headlines
again. I assume she died sometime in the 1920s or 1930s but nowhere is
there any confirmation. She has a birth year category but no death year
category.

Would she be tagged as a 'Living person'?
--
David Boothroyd - http://www.election.demon.co.uk
[hidden email] (home)
[hidden email] (council)
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Re: a new category for the living

Carbonite
In reply to this post by daniwo59
On 1/19/06, David Boothroyd <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "charles matthews" <[hidden email]> writes:
> >Bryan Derksen wrote
> >
> >>  It'd help locate some of those if the living-person list were sorted by
> >>  birth year, everyone over 120 years or so old is probably missing a death
> >>  date.
> >
> >I'm beginning to wonder about all this.
> >
> >Adding [[Category:Living person]] - is that suppposed to be fact-checked or
> >what?  [[Category:No death date]], that would be fine.
>
> A while back I wrote an article about [[Elizabeth Cass]] who was a minor
> cause celebre in 1887. She was born in 1863 but never hit the headlines
> again. I assume she died sometime in the 1920s or 1930s but nowhere is
> there any confirmation. She has a birth year category but no death year
> category.
>
> Would she be tagged as a 'Living person'?

As a side note, there is [[Category:Year of death missing]] for those
people that are known to be dead, but we don't currently have a
verifiable year of death. Unless Elizabeth Cass is setting some world
records for longevity, she'd probably be a good candidate for the
category. In fact, I'm going to add it right now.

Carbonite
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Re: a new category for the living

Jimmy Wales
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2

> This is a useful concept - we can set up a meaningful Living Bio
> patrol! - but how many biographies do we have? (I would *guess* 90% of
> our bio articles would have living subjects.)
>
> Remember that Category:stub was sorted because it became unusably huge
> - if your article name didn't start with A, it wouldn't get looked at.
> Our living bios *should* be sorted into many categories; presumably we
> will have an assiduous Living Bio sorting project?

I absolutely agree that the category should not become unmanageably
large.  I don't know what the best way to subcategorize it might be.

We know at the foundation level that living people's bios are among the
most time consuming issues we have to deal with.  These articles are
magnets for trolls and vandals and people with a personal vendetta, and
then they are also targets for people who want to change their own
article (*cough*) because it has errors, etc.

The new bio policy page is super duper excellent and the concept here is
to provide a tool for editors to be able to meaningfully sort through them.
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Re: a new category for the living

Jimmy Wales
In reply to this post by Sean Barrett-2
Sean Barrett wrote:
> charles matthews stated for the record:
>
>
>>>Adding [[Category:Living person]] - is that suppposed to be fact-checked
>>>or what?  [[Category:No death date]], that would be fine.
>>>
>>>Charles

I'm totally flexible on the name of the category, and this suggestion
seems sensible enough to me.  It also holds some promise of us someday
being able to actually automate it with a proper metadata system.

--Jimbo
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RE: a new category for the living

Peter Mackay
In reply to this post by Bryan Derksen
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bryan Derksen

> Carbonite wrote:
> > What about implementing a Special page that lists all
> articles with a
> > birth date category, but not a death date category? This would
> > effectively be the same as a "Living People" category (after fixing
> > articles that mistakenly omit a death category).
> >  
> It'd help locate some of those if the living-person list were
> sorted by birth year, everyone over 120 years or so old is
> probably missing a death date.

It's the articles that would be missing the death date; the people
themselves would not.

Pete


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RE: a new category for the living

Peter Mackay
In reply to this post by Sean Barrett-2
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sean Barrett
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> charles matthews stated for the record:
>
> > Adding [[Category:Living person]] - is that suppposed to be
> > fact-checked or what?  [[Category:No death date]], that
> would be fine.
> >
> > Charles
>
> Good point.  I suppose "I shook hands with him this morning"
> would be disallowed as original research.

Nor would it confirm the status of "living person".

Pete, who has shaken some very cold and limp hands in his time


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Re: a new category for the living

Andrew Gray
In reply to this post by Jimmy Wales
On 19/01/06, Jimmy Wales <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm totally flexible on the name of the category, and this suggestion
> seems sensible enough to me.  It also holds some promise of us someday
> being able to actually automate it with a proper metadata system.

Have you noticed the testing of implementing [[Wikipedia:Persondata]],
roughly similar to the German metadata system? It's imperfect - it's
all inside the article, for a start, rather than real metadata - but
it's promising.

--
- Andrew Gray
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Re: a new category for the living

gamaliel8
In reply to this post by daniwo59
Did you try a full text search of a newspaper database?  I don't know what
coverage of British newspapers is like, but I assume it's comparable to US
databases.  When I want to research one of those not quite famous enough for
Britannica people I can just pull up their New York Times obit from ProQuest
through my library.

Speaking of which, [[Category:Year of death missing]] is a great idea, and
I'm going to see if I can find obits on some of these people.

On 1/19/06, David Boothroyd <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> A while back I wrote an article about [[Elizabeth Cass]] who was a minor
> cause celebre in 1887. She was born in 1863 but never hit the headlines
> again. I assume she died sometime in the 1920s or 1930s but nowhere is
> there any confirmation. She has a birth year category but no death year
> category.
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Re: a new category for the living

Ray Saintonge
For most American deaths since 1930-something, the Social Security Death
Index of the Social Security Administration can be useful.

Ec

Rob wrote:

>Did you try a full text search of a newspaper database?  I don't know what
>coverage of British newspapers is like, but I assume it's comparable to US
>databases.  When I want to research one of those not quite famous enough for
>Britannica people I can just pull up their New York Times obit from ProQuest
>through my library.
>
>Speaking of which, [[Category:Year of death missing]] is a great idea, and
>I'm going to see if I can find obits on some of these people.
>
>On 1/19/06, David Boothroyd <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>A while back I wrote an article about [[Elizabeth Cass]] who was a minor
>>cause celebre in 1887. She was born in 1863 but never hit the headlines
>>again. I assume she died sometime in the 1920s or 1930s but nowhere is
>>there any confirmation. She has a birth year category but no death year
>>category.
>>


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Re: a new category for the living

Nathan Russell-2
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On 1/19/06, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Danny wrote:
>
> >I am writing this to announce the creation of a new category
> >on Wikipedia-English: [[Category:Living people]]. The category
> >should include the articles of all people who are still alive.
>
>
> This is a useful concept - we can set up a meaningful Living Bio
> patrol! - but how many biographies do we have? (I would *guess* 90% of
> our bio articles would have living subjects.)
>
> Remember that Category:stub was sorted because it became unusably huge
> - if your article name didn't start with A, it wouldn't get looked at.
> Our living bios *should* be sorted into many categories; presumably we
> will have an assiduous Living Bio sorting project?
>
>
> - d.

Agree.  Over-broad and unuseful categories generally need to go (or
have articles moved into sub-categories, as has been done with for
example Harry Potter character categories).  At one point we had a
[[Category:Millionaires]], which was deleted because it would have to
include about half our bio articles.  This one would be even bigger.

Nathan
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