a new free image!

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a new free image!

daniwo59
Today we got a nice new image on the English Wikipedia--see [[Dennis  
Johnson]], a star of the NBA, who died recently. The image has a story, and  the
story has a moral. I want to tell it.
 
The creator is an established sports photographer who has worked for the  NBA
professional as a photographer. He is also one of the many thousands of  
uknown (to us) fans of Wikipedia who visit teh site regularly. When Johnson  died,
he went to the article, and noticed there was no picture, so he decided to  
donate one that he took. He called the office to ask how to do it.
 
After speaking with him briefly, I realized that we have a potential  
treasure trove of FREE images here, which he was willing and eager to share with  us,
from the NBA and many other areas. I asked Greg Maxwell to speak with him  
about licensing, and the rest is history. He selected an image and released it  
under the GFDL license. Hopefully, there will be more to come.
 
As for the moral of the story: we were missing an image, and someone  decided
to release one of his own--a high quality professional image at that. As  for
now, I can only wonder at the argument that we keep fairuse images until we  
find free ones. The fact that we did not have an image encouraged someone to  
"fix the problem" and provide a free one. There will likely be many more to  
come.
 
So, I just want to say thank you to the photographer, who understood the  
value in what we are doing, and to Greg Maxwell, for spending time with him and  
explaining the free license philosophy. And I also want to thank all the  
contributors who did NOT rush to post a fairuse image. Because of that, a  
magnificent image is now free.
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
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Re: a new free image!

Casey Brown-2
Is your point that we should remove all "fair use images", causing the
articles to be without an image making someone donate a free one?

Cbrown1023

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:18 PM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: [Foundation-l] a new free image!

Today we got a nice new image on the English Wikipedia--see [[Dennis  
Johnson]], a star of the NBA, who died recently. The image has a story, and
the
story has a moral. I want to tell it.
 
The creator is an established sports photographer who has worked for the
NBA
professional as a photographer. He is also one of the many thousands of  
uknown (to us) fans of Wikipedia who visit teh site regularly. When Johnson
died,
he went to the article, and noticed there was no picture, so he decided to  
donate one that he took. He called the office to ask how to do it.
 
After speaking with him briefly, I realized that we have a potential  
treasure trove of FREE images here, which he was willing and eager to share
with  us,
from the NBA and many other areas. I asked Greg Maxwell to speak with him  
about licensing, and the rest is history. He selected an image and released
it  
under the GFDL license. Hopefully, there will be more to come.
 
As for the moral of the story: we were missing an image, and someone
decided
to release one of his own--a high quality professional image at that. As
for
now, I can only wonder at the argument that we keep fairuse images until we

find free ones. The fact that we did not have an image encouraged someone to

"fix the problem" and provide a free one. There will likely be many more to

come.
 
So, I just want to say thank you to the photographer, who understood the  
value in what we are doing, and to Greg Maxwell, for spending time with him
and  
explaining the free license philosophy. And I also want to thank all the  
contributors who did NOT rush to post a fairuse image. Because of that, a  
magnificent image is now free.
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at
http://www.aol.com.
_______________________________________________
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Re: a new free image!

daniwo59
In reply to this post by daniwo59
 
In a message dated 2/23/2007 7:21:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,  
[hidden email] writes:

Is your  point that we should remove all "fair use images", causing the
articles to  be without an image making someone donate a free  one?

Cbrown1023




More or less. My point is that we don't *need* fair use images, and in this  
particular instance, a fair use image would have prevented us from obtaining a
 free one.
<BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
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Re: a new free image!

geni
In reply to this post by daniwo59
On 2/24/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is your point that we should remove all "fair use images", causing the
> articles to be without an image making someone donate a free one?
>
> Cbrown1023
>


Close I would suggest replaceing them with this (click the image):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mamet
--
geni

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Re: a new free image!

Pedro Sanchez-2
In reply to this post by daniwo59
On 2/23/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is your point that we should remove all "fair use images", causing the
> articles to be without an image making someone donate a free one?
>
> Cbrown1023
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:18 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Foundation-l] a new free image!
>
> Today we got a nice new image on the English Wikipedia--see [[Dennis
> Johnson]], a star of the NBA, who died recently. The image has a story, and
> the
> story has a moral. I want to tell it.
>
> The creator is an established sports photographer who has worked for the
> NBA
> professional as a photographer. He is also one of the many thousands of
> uknown (to us) fans of Wikipedia who visit teh site regularly. When Johnson
> died,
> he went to the article, and noticed there was no picture, so he decided to
> donate one that he took. He called the office to ask how to do it.
>
> After speaking with him briefly, I realized that we have a potential
> treasure trove of FREE images here, which he was willing and eager to share
> with  us,
> from the NBA and many other areas. I asked Greg Maxwell to speak with him
> about licensing, and the rest is history. He selected an image and released
> it
> under the GFDL license. Hopefully, there will be more to come.
>
> As for the moral of the story: we were missing an image, and someone
> decided
> to release one of his own--a high quality professional image at that. As
> for
> now, I can only wonder at the argument that we keep fairuse images until we
>
> find free ones. The fact that we did not have an image encouraged someone to
>
> "fix the problem" and provide a free one. There will likely be many more to
>
> come.
>
> So, I just want to say thank you to the photographer, who understood the
> value in what we are doing, and to Greg Maxwell, for spending time with him
> and
> explaining the free license philosophy. And I also want to thank all the
> contributors who did NOT rush to post a fairuse image. Because of that, a
> magnificent image is now free.
> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
> email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at
> http://www.aol.com.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

The point is that fair use only applies when no free replacement can
be obtained. Yet rushing to post a fair use without first actually
trying to find some free image, discourages finding out it later

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Re: a new free image!

Casey Brown-2
I like that idea.  However, that may not work for all cases.  It is an
interesting story to mention, but does not have applicability to all
instances of fair use images.  We should also recall that the readers (the
ones we are really writing this for), would like to see an image until
there.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Pedro Sanchez
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:27 PM
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] a new free image!

On 2/23/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is your point that we should remove all "fair use images", causing the
> articles to be without an image making someone donate a free one?
>
> Cbrown1023
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
> Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:18 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Foundation-l] a new free image!
>
> Today we got a nice new image on the English Wikipedia--see [[Dennis
> Johnson]], a star of the NBA, who died recently. The image has a story,
and
> the
> story has a moral. I want to tell it.
>
> The creator is an established sports photographer who has worked for the
> NBA
> professional as a photographer. He is also one of the many thousands of
> uknown (to us) fans of Wikipedia who visit teh site regularly. When
Johnson
> died,
> he went to the article, and noticed there was no picture, so he decided to
> donate one that he took. He called the office to ask how to do it.
>
> After speaking with him briefly, I realized that we have a potential
> treasure trove of FREE images here, which he was willing and eager to
share
> with  us,
> from the NBA and many other areas. I asked Greg Maxwell to speak with him
> about licensing, and the rest is history. He selected an image and
released
> it
> under the GFDL license. Hopefully, there will be more to come.
>
> As for the moral of the story: we were missing an image, and someone
> decided
> to release one of his own--a high quality professional image at that. As
> for
> now, I can only wonder at the argument that we keep fairuse images until
we
>
> find free ones. The fact that we did not have an image encouraged someone
to
>
> "fix the problem" and provide a free one. There will likely be many more
to
>
> come.
>
> So, I just want to say thank you to the photographer, who understood the
> value in what we are doing, and to Greg Maxwell, for spending time with
him

> and
> explaining the free license philosophy. And I also want to thank all the
> contributors who did NOT rush to post a fairuse image. Because of that, a
> magnificent image is now free.
> <BR><BR><BR>**************************************<BR> AOL now offers free
> email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at
> http://www.aol.com.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

The point is that fair use only applies when no free replacement can
be obtained. Yet rushing to post a fair use without first actually
trying to find some free image, discourages finding out it later

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Re: a new free image!

Casey Brown-2
In reply to this post by geni
I like that idea.  However, that may not work for all cases.  It is an
interesting story to mention, but does not have applicability to all
instances of fair use images.  We should also recall that the readers (the
ones we are really writing this for), would like to see an image until
there.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of geni
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 7:26 PM
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] a new free image!

On 2/24/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Is your point that we should remove all "fair use images", causing the
> articles to be without an image making someone donate a free one?
>
> Cbrown1023
>


Close I would suggest replaceing them with this (click the image):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mamet
--
geni

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Re: [Commons-l] a new free image!

Kelly Martin-3
In reply to this post by daniwo59
On 2/23/07, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Today we got a nice new image on the English Wikipedia--see [[Dennis
> Johnson]], a star of the NBA, who died recently. The image has a story, and
> the story has a moral. I want to tell it.
>
> The creator is an established sports photographer who has worked for the NBA
> professional as a photographer. He is also one of the many thousands of
> uknown (to us) fans of Wikipedia who visit teh site regularly. When Johnson
> died, he went to the article, and noticed there was no picture, so he
> decided to donate one that he took. He called the office to ask how to do
> it.
>
> After speaking with him briefly, I realized that we have a potential
> treasure trove of FREE images here, which he was willing and eager to share
> with us, from the NBA and many other areas. I asked Greg Maxwell to speak
> with him about licensing, and the rest is history. He selected an image and
> released it under the GFDL license. Hopefully, there will be more to come.
>
> As for the moral of the story: we were missing an image, and someone decided
> to release one of his own--a high quality professional image at that. As for
> now, I can only wonder at the argument that we keep fairuse images until we
> find free ones. The fact that we did not have an image encouraged someone to
> "fix the problem" and provide a free one. There will likely be many more to
> come.
>
> So, I just want to say thank you to the photographer, who understood the
> value in what we are doing, and to Greg Maxwell, for spending time with him
> and explaining the free license philosophy. And I also want to thank all the
> contributors who did NOT rush to post a fairuse image. Because of that, a
> magnificent image is now free.

I would also like to thank Jkelly's excellent customer service in
dealing with this gentleman fairly and politely when he had second
thoughts initially about contributing (working with him to delete the
unintended contribution until Greg could take the time to fully and
fairly explain to him what he was being asked to agree to) and Cary
Bass (Bastique) for some behind-the-scenes OTRS work to make sure
everyone was on the same page.

Good work, everyone!

Kelly

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Re: a new free image!

Mohamed Magdy-2
In reply to this post by daniwo59
<snip>
Well, good work!..but as others said, this isn't the proper way to get
rid of fair use images..the availability of a fair use image won't stop
someone from adding a free alternative, fair use images shouldn't be
added in a high resolution..right? so when someone sees the image with
low quality and s/he has another free one, s/he will replace it with the
free image, provided that you place a message on free use images saying
'this image isn't free, if you can help.replace it...'...on the other
end, I think with the increasing popularity, people will just add their
images(to say: hey, i took that image you see on [[Cat]] article!)...


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Re: a new free image!

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
When you have a good quality picture that you want to use under Fair use,
you use it as a good quality picture. Why cripple our content when there is
no need ? If anything we should not have "Fair use" material.
Thanks,
     GerardM

On 2/24/07, Mohamed Magdy <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> <snip>
> Well, good work!..but as others said, this isn't the proper way to get
> rid of fair use images..the availability of a fair use image won't stop
> someone from adding a free alternative, fair use images shouldn't be
> added in a high resolution..right? so when someone sees the image with
> low quality and s/he has another free one, s/he will replace it with the
> free image, provided that you place a message on free use images saying
> 'this image isn't free, if you can help.replace it...'...on the other
> end, I think with the increasing popularity, people will just add their
> images(to say: hey, i took that image you see on [[Cat]] article!)...
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: a new free image!

Teun Spaans
Gerard,

may I kindly remind you that our aim is to make and collect free content?
Fair use is not free.

And your remark about crippling content looks false: i checked a few of the
old versions, and these didnt have a photograph. Not even a fair use one.

regards,
teun spaans



On 2/24/07, GerardM <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hoi,
> When you have a good quality picture that you want to use under Fair use,
> you use it as a good quality picture. Why cripple our content when there
> is
> no need ? If anything we should not have "Fair use" material.
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
> On 2/24/07, Mohamed Magdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> > Well, good work!..but as others said, this isn't the proper way to get
> > rid of fair use images..the availability of a fair use image won't stop
> > someone from adding a free alternative, fair use images shouldn't be
> > added in a high resolution..right? so when someone sees the image with
> > low quality and s/he has another free one, s/he will replace it with the
> > free image, provided that you place a message on free use images saying
> > 'this image isn't free, if you can help.replace it...'...on the other
> > end, I think with the increasing popularity, people will just add their
> > images(to say: hey, i took that image you see on [[Cat]] article!)...
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: a new free image!

Gerard Meijssen-3
Teun.
May I kindly remind you that we are discussing on this list how to deal with
all types of issues. Personally I have never ever uploaded "Fair use"
material. It is however done on some of our projects. When material is used
with a justification of being "Fair use", there is imho no reason to cripple
such material. This was suggested in the previous post.

You were wrong in how you reacted to what I wrote about NC and ND the other
day, you again assume things that are not in line with what I wrote. It is
good to remember that "Fair use" is permitted to a project under a Exemption
Doctrine Policy if they so choose. It is therefore relevant to discuss how
this is to be implemented if at all. This is what I did.

Thanks,
     GerardM


On 2/24/07, teun spaans <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Gerard,
>
> may I kindly remind you that our aim is to make and collect free content?
> Fair use is not free.
>
> And your remark about crippling content looks false: i checked a few of
> the
> old versions, and these didnt have a photograph. Not even a fair use one.
>
> regards,
> teun spaans
>
>
>
> On 2/24/07, GerardM <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hoi,
> > When you have a good quality picture that you want to use under Fair
> use,
> > you use it as a good quality picture. Why cripple our content when there
> > is
> > no need ? If anything we should not have "Fair use" material.
> > Thanks,
> >      GerardM
> >
> > On 2/24/07, Mohamed Magdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > > Well, good work!..but as others said, this isn't the proper way to get
> > > rid of fair use images..the availability of a fair use image won't
> stop
> > > someone from adding a free alternative, fair use images shouldn't be
> > > added in a high resolution..right? so when someone sees the image with
> > > low quality and s/he has another free one, s/he will replace it with
> the
> > > free image, provided that you place a message on free use images
> saying
> > > 'this image isn't free, if you can help.replace it...'...on the other
> > > end, I think with the increasing popularity, people will just add
> their
> > > images(to say: hey, i took that image you see on [[Cat]] article!)...
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: a new free image!

Effe iets anders
Well, there is such a reason, namely that it would motivate people to make a
better free image. And the argument that the new image is not as good as the
fair use one wont count then either. So there is a reason

Whether you find that a good reason is a second.

Lodewijk

2007/2/24, GerardM <[hidden email]>:

>
> Teun.
> May I kindly remind you that we are discussing on this list how to deal
> with
> all types of issues. Personally I have never ever uploaded "Fair use"
> material. It is however done on some of our projects. When material is
> used
> with a justification of being "Fair use", there is imho no reason to
> cripple
> such material. This was suggested in the previous post.
>
> You were wrong in how you reacted to what I wrote about NC and ND the
> other
> day, you again assume things that are not in line with what I wrote. It is
> good to remember that "Fair use" is permitted to a project under a
> Exemption
> Doctrine Policy if they so choose. It is therefore relevant to discuss how
> this is to be implemented if at all. This is what I did.
>
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
>
> On 2/24/07, teun spaans <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Gerard,
> >
> > may I kindly remind you that our aim is to make and collect free
> content?
> > Fair use is not free.
> >
> > And your remark about crippling content looks false: i checked a few of
> > the
> > old versions, and these didnt have a photograph. Not even a fair use
> one.
> >
> > regards,
> > teun spaans
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/24/07, GerardM <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hoi,
> > > When you have a good quality picture that you want to use under Fair
> > use,
> > > you use it as a good quality picture. Why cripple our content when
> there
> > > is
> > > no need ? If anything we should not have "Fair use" material.
> > > Thanks,
> > >      GerardM
> > >
> > > On 2/24/07, Mohamed Magdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > <snip>
> > > > Well, good work!..but as others said, this isn't the proper way to
> get
> > > > rid of fair use images..the availability of a fair use image won't
> > stop
> > > > someone from adding a free alternative, fair use images shouldn't be
> > > > added in a high resolution..right? so when someone sees the image
> with
> > > > low quality and s/he has another free one, s/he will replace it with
> > the
> > > > free image, provided that you place a message on free use images
> > saying
> > > > 'this image isn't free, if you can help.replace it...'...on the
> other
> > > > end, I think with the increasing popularity, people will just add
> > their
> > > > images(to say: hey, i took that image you see on [[Cat]]
> article!)...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: a new free image!

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
You may suggest it as a reason. It is however not mentioned at all in the
draft policy. Personally I am of the opinion that it is insulting to the
photographer to have the quality of his/her image willfully reduced for
dogmatic reasons.

Retaining an image with the argument that the quality of a Free image is
less than the quality of a Fair use image is not permitted under the EDP.
When there is a replacement, there is no longer a rationale for this image
to be retained. Consequently the Fair use image should be replaced. In the
mean time we should provide the best service possible.

Thanks,
    GerardM


On 2/24/07, effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Well, there is such a reason, namely that it would motivate people to make
> a
> better free image. And the argument that the new image is not as good as
> the
> fair use one wont count then either. So there is a reason
>
> Whether you find that a good reason is a second.
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2007/2/24, GerardM <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > Teun.
> > May I kindly remind you that we are discussing on this list how to deal
> > with
> > all types of issues. Personally I have never ever uploaded "Fair use"
> > material. It is however done on some of our projects. When material is
> > used
> > with a justification of being "Fair use", there is imho no reason to
> > cripple
> > such material. This was suggested in the previous post.
> >
> > You were wrong in how you reacted to what I wrote about NC and ND the
> > other
> > day, you again assume things that are not in line with what I wrote. It
> is
> > good to remember that "Fair use" is permitted to a project under a
> > Exemption
> > Doctrine Policy if they so choose. It is therefore relevant to discuss
> how
> > this is to be implemented if at all. This is what I did.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >      GerardM
> >
> >
> > On 2/24/07, teun spaans <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Gerard,
> > >
> > > may I kindly remind you that our aim is to make and collect free
> > content?
> > > Fair use is not free.
> > >
> > > And your remark about crippling content looks false: i checked a few
> of
> > > the
> > > old versions, and these didnt have a photograph. Not even a fair use
> > one.
> > >
> > > regards,
> > > teun spaans
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2/24/07, GerardM <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hoi,
> > > > When you have a good quality picture that you want to use under Fair
> > > use,
> > > > you use it as a good quality picture. Why cripple our content when
> > there
> > > > is
> > > > no need ? If anything we should not have "Fair use" material.
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >      GerardM
> > > >
> > > > On 2/24/07, Mohamed Magdy <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > <snip>
> > > > > Well, good work!..but as others said, this isn't the proper way to
> > get
> > > > > rid of fair use images..the availability of a fair use image won't
> > > stop
> > > > > someone from adding a free alternative, fair use images shouldn't
> be
> > > > > added in a high resolution..right? so when someone sees the image
> > with
> > > > > low quality and s/he has another free one, s/he will replace it
> with
> > > the
> > > > > free image, provided that you place a message on free use images
> > > saying
> > > > > 'this image isn't free, if you can help.replace it...'...on the
> > other
> > > > > end, I think with the increasing popularity, people will just add
> > > their
> > > > > images(to say: hey, i took that image you see on [[Cat]]
> > article!)...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
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> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
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Re: a new free image!

Cormac Lawler
In reply to this post by geni
On 2/24/07, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/24/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Is your point that we should remove all "fair use images", causing the
> > articles to be without an image making someone donate a free one?
> >
> > Cbrown1023
> >
>
>
> Close I would suggest replaceing them with this (click the image):
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Mamet
> --
> geni
>


That's an good idea. I was also going to suggest, where
people/projects want to use *some* fair use images, might it be an
idea to somehow identify fair use images as such *within the article*
- by, say, putting a coloured border around it and having a text that
says "This image is not free - help us find one", and linking to a
template or other page as is done in this case?

Dunno..

Cormac

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Re: a new free image!

geni
On 2/24/07, Cormac Lawler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> That's an good idea. I was also going to suggest, where
> people/projects want to use *some* fair use images, might it be an
> idea to somehow identify fair use images as such *within the article*
> - by, say, putting a coloured border around it and having a text that
> says "This image is not free - help us find one", and linking to a
> template or other page as is done in this case?
>
> Dunno..
>
> Cormac
>

This has been suggested but has never really got anywhere. You
couldn't quite patch it into the fromowner system because step 4 in
the upload instructions wouldn't work. You could set up a parallel
system. The Devs might not be too happy though.


--
geni

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Re: a new free image!

Cormac Lawler
On 2/24/07, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/24/07, Cormac Lawler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > That's an good idea. I was also going to suggest, where
> > people/projects want to use *some* fair use images, might it be an
> > idea to somehow identify fair use images as such *within the article*
> > - by, say, putting a coloured border around it and having a text that
> > says "This image is not free - help us find one", and linking to a
> > template or other page as is done in this case?
> >
> > Dunno..
> >
> > Cormac
> >
>
> This has been suggested but has never really got anywhere. You
> couldn't quite patch it into the fromowner system because step 4 in
> the upload instructions wouldn't work. You could set up a parallel
> system. The Devs might not be too happy though.
>


Right - I was actually thinking of something that would be activated
(for want of a better word) when including the image within an
article. Couldn't it be a simple template that would include the image
as well as the colours/texts around the image that indicate "fair use
- not free"? True, this would mean it is up to the person including
the image to see whether the image is free or fair use - but it could
easily become standard practice.

Cormac

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Re: a new free image!

James Forrester-2
On 24/02/07, Cormac Lawler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 2/24/07, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 2/24/07, Cormac Lawler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > That's an good idea. I was also going to suggest, where
> > > people/projects want to use *some* fair use images, might it be an
> > > idea to somehow identify fair use images as such *within the article*
> > > - by, say, putting a coloured border around it and having a text that
> > > says "This image is not free - help us find one", and linking to a
> > > template or other page as is done in this case?
> > >
> > > Dunno..
> > >
> > > Cormac
> > >
> >
> > This has been suggested but has never really got anywhere. You
> > couldn't quite patch it into the fromowner system because step 4 in
> > the upload instructions wouldn't work. You could set up a parallel
> > system. The Devs might not be too happy though.
> >
>
>
> Right - I was actually thinking of something that would be activated
> (for want of a better word) when including the image within an
> article. Couldn't it be a simple template that would include the image
> as well as the colours/texts around the image that indicate "fair use
> - not free"? True, this would mean it is up to the person including
> the image to see whether the image is free or fair use - but it could
> easily become standard practice.

A much technically neater solution, which doesn't rely on users doing
the right thing, is surely to have local files (all of which will be
tagged as non-free, as otherwise they'd be on Commons, post SUL) have
such "WARNING, BAD NASTY EVIL COPYRIGHTSNESS!" image CSS.

But this is, really, not the best place to be having such a
discussion; perhaps commons-l, or wikipedia-l (though other projects
use images too, obviously).

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
[hidden email] | [hidden email] | [hidden email]
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]

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Re: a new free image!

Effe iets anders
Yeah, meta-l would be great for this :) I heard someone that it might be set
up, i hope it comes soon! :)

Lodewijk

2007/2/24, James Forrester <[hidden email]>:

>
> On 24/02/07, Cormac Lawler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 2/24/07, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > On 2/24/07, Cormac Lawler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > That's an good idea. I was also going to suggest, where
> > > > people/projects want to use *some* fair use images, might it be an
> > > > idea to somehow identify fair use images as such *within the
> article*
> > > > - by, say, putting a coloured border around it and having a text
> that
> > > > says "This image is not free - help us find one", and linking to a
> > > > template or other page as is done in this case?
> > > >
> > > > Dunno..
> > > >
> > > > Cormac
> > > >
> > >
> > > This has been suggested but has never really got anywhere. You
> > > couldn't quite patch it into the fromowner system because step 4 in
> > > the upload instructions wouldn't work. You could set up a parallel
> > > system. The Devs might not be too happy though.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Right - I was actually thinking of something that would be activated
> > (for want of a better word) when including the image within an
> > article. Couldn't it be a simple template that would include the image
> > as well as the colours/texts around the image that indicate "fair use
> > - not free"? True, this would mean it is up to the person including
> > the image to see whether the image is free or fair use - but it could
> > easily become standard practice.
>
> A much technically neater solution, which doesn't rely on users doing
> the right thing, is surely to have local files (all of which will be
> tagged as non-free, as otherwise they'd be on Commons, post SUL) have
> such "WARNING, BAD NASTY EVIL COPYRIGHTSNESS!" image CSS.
>
> But this is, really, not the best place to be having such a
> discussion; perhaps commons-l, or wikipedia-l (though other projects
> use images too, obviously).
>
> Yours,
> --
> James D. Forrester
> [hidden email] | [hidden email] | [hidden email]
> [[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>
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Re: a new free image!

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by daniwo59
[hidden email] wrote:

>In a message dated 2/23/2007 7:21:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
>
>Is your  point that we should remove all "fair use images", causing the
>articles to  be without an image making someone donate a free  one?
>
>Cbrown1023
>
>More or less. My point is that we don't *need* fair use images, and in this  
>particular instance, a fair use image would have prevented us from obtaining a
> free one.
>
So let's try a controlled experiment.  Remove all non-free and fair use
images of current NBA players, and measure the rate at which free
pictures are added.  If the experiment fails there should be no
technical difficulty in restoring the fair use images.

Ec


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