advertising craigslist

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
64 messages Options
1234
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

advertising craigslist

geni
I see we have taken to advertising craigslist. Would anyone care to explain why?

--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Liam Wyatt
care to give some context to your question?

[[witty lama]]

wittylama.com/blog
Peace, love & metadata


On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:50 PM, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I see we have taken to advertising craigslist. Would anyone care to explain
> why?
>
> --
> geni
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Ryan Lomonaco
Geni's referring to a fundraiser sitenotice with a picture of Craig Newmark,
and the text "Craig of Craigslist urges you to support Wikipedia.  Why?"

On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 11:09 PM, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> care to give some context to your question?
>
> [[witty lama]]
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:50 PM, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I see we have taken to advertising craigslist. Would anyone care to
> explain
> > why?
> >
> > --
> > geni
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
[[User:Ral315]]
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Gregory Maxwell
In reply to this post by geni
Geni is speaking of the huge banner on Enwp at the moment featuring Craig of
craigslist. Hit reload a few times if you haven't seen it.  It links to a
clearly spoken statement of support for wikipedia.


To avoid you haivng to click and goofing up the counters, here is what it says:
"
I'm a proud supporter of Wikipedia, and I encourage you to make a
donation to support their work too. Wikipedia is an accomplishment of
major proportions. It's become the "first draft of history," a vital,
living repository of human knowledge.

How did we ever manage without it? Wikipedia makes it easy to learn
about anything. It's dramatic proof of the supreme effectiveness of
collaboration: people from all around the world work together on
Wikipedia to build articles with one purpose - to provide free
knowledge.

But the work has just begun. And Wikipedia needs our financial support.

If you read it, if you edit it, if you visit it more than once a
month: please join me in supporting Wikipedia today.
"

There is are no hyperlinks to anything but WMF donation stuff, from the target.


On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 10:50 PM, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I see we have taken to advertising craigslist. Would anyone care to explain why?

Your post makes me sad: I think the banner is doing the right thing and if we
complain about moderate and well considered actions then we lose credibility
when something more foolish is done.  I normally respect and
appreciate your comments
but I this one is not a fair one.

The banner isn't a link to craiglist, it's 'The founder of this other
widely known
(and I think usually well respected) organization endorses wikipedia,
here is why...'

Arguably craiglist is only known and credible to much of the same
subculture that WMF's
message has already reached— I suppose the results will have to be left
to speak for themselves— but is this an add for craigslist? Hardly.

It's a craig-of-craigslist ad for Wikipedia, speaking about the
virtues of Wikipedia, not
craig or craigs-list (other than the virtue of his support, which is being used
as social proof).

I accept that there can be a reasonable discussion about the wisdom of
this kind of
messaging, but I don't think that such a discussion could be had with
your rather
extreme characterization overhanging.  Might I convince you to restate
it in a way
more conducive of discussion than dispute?

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Philippe Beaudette-2
In reply to this post by geni

On Dec 14, 2009, at 9:50 PM, geni wrote:

> I see we have taken to advertising craigslist. Would anyone care to  
> explain why?



I fail to understand how acknowledging the existence of a company  
founded by an advisory board member who kindly consents to begging for  
money on our behalf constitutes advertising for it?  Would the banner  
have been as effective if it had said "Craig asks you to support..."?

Geez.
____________________
Philippe Beaudette
Facilitator, Strategy Project
Wikimedia Foundation

[hidden email]

mobile: 918 200-WIKI (9454)

Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in
the sum of all knowledge.  Help us make it a reality!

http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Robert Rohde
In reply to this post by Liam Wyatt
The banner can be seen at:
http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:NoticeTemplate/view&template=2009_Craig_Appeal1

-Robert Rohde


On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 8:09 PM, Liam Wyatt <[hidden email]> wrote:

> care to give some context to your question?
>
> [[witty lama]]
>
> wittylama.com/blog
> Peace, love & metadata
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 2:50 PM, geni <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I see we have taken to advertising craigslist. Would anyone care to explain
>> why?
>>
>> --
>> geni
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

M. Williamson
In reply to this post by Philippe Beaudette-2
It's certainly free publicity for Craigslist, one way or the other. Anybody
who does not know what Craigslist is now will see it every time they see the
banner, may google it or look it up on WP to find out what it is, and start
using it.

Any time we put the name of any kind of person or organization there, that
is free publicity so I think it is imperative that we think about what
effect that publicity will have in the end. If we put a quote from Nelson
Mandela there, for example, it isn't very likely that he will get any money
or website traffic or any quantifiable benefit from our banner. If we put an
impassioned plea from "The CEO of Webbooks.com", it is very possible that
will result in additional traffic and exposure for that website.

Although the banner is not intended as an ad, I must admit that when I saw
it I instantly disliked it. If it were up to me, it would not be there. I
can certainly understand the reasons for keeping it up and I also don't
think this is a terrible situation or anything so I won't argue about this
but I wanted to make it known that Geni isn't the only one of the opinion
that it's not a good thing.

Mark

skype: node.ue


On Mon, Dec 14, 2009 at 9:13 PM, Philippe Beaudette <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Dec 14, 2009, at 9:50 PM, geni wrote:
>
> > I see we have taken to advertising craigslist. Would anyone care to
> > explain why?
>
>
>
> I fail to understand how acknowledging the existence of a company
> founded by an advisory board member who kindly consents to begging for
> money on our behalf constitutes advertising for it?  Would the banner
> have been as effective if it had said "Craig asks you to support..."?
>
> Geez.
> ____________________
> Philippe Beaudette
> Facilitator, Strategy Project
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> [hidden email]
>
> mobile:         918 200-WIKI (9454)
>
> Imagine a world in which every human being can freely share in
> the sum of all knowledge.  Help us make it a reality!
>
> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Erik Moeller-4
Just as a bit of general background for this thread:

The Craig Newmark banner is currently running at 20% on the English
Wikipedia. It's a pilot to see how our audience responds to
endorsements and testimonials by third parties. (So far, it is doing
reasonably well, but not fantastically so; we will likely move on to
different messages soon.) We're not running a large endorsement
campaign this year, but we wanted to at least get some data on a
banner of this type to help us determine whether we want to run more
such messages in the future.

We approached Craig and asked him whether he would help us with this,
and he generously agreed. We chose Craig because he represents, to
many people, a philosophy of the web that is comparable to ours. In
spite of huge web traffic, Craigslist is run with a staff of 32 and
carries no ads, and Craig founded a non-profit organization, the
Craigslist Foundation, to support other non-profits. (CraigsList
itself is a for-profit.) We're pleased that Craig has joined our
Advisory Board, and we're happy he agreed to this endorsement.  That
said, any kind of personal endorsement can certainly polarize.

If, in future, we decide to run more such endorsements, we'll likely
want to come up with a rich mix of different kinds of people with very
different backgrounds, both to appeal to different segments of our
audience, and to get a better understanding of the overall trends.
--
Erik Möller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

M. Williamson
Key phrase for me in this e-mail was "CraigsList itself is a for-profit",
despite the fact that it was hidden in a parenthetical remark after lots of
glowing praise... The "Craigslist Foundation" is not Craigslist.

According to the Wikipedia article on Craigslist:

"The company does not formally disclose financial or ownership information.
Analysts and commentators have reported varying figures for its annual
revenue, ranging from $10 million in 2004, $20 million in 2005, and $25
million in 2006 to possibly $150 million in 2007"

"It is believed to be owned principally by Newmark, Buckmaster, and eBay
(the three board members). eBay owns approximately 25%, and Newmark is
believed to own the largest stake."

We put the name of a for-profit organization flashing across the top of the
site... What you said: "In spite of huge web traffic, Craigslist is run with
a staff of 32 and carries no ads, and Craig founded a non-profit
organization, the Craigslist Foundation, to support other non-profits."
seems like it is intended to distract the reader from the truth, which is
that Craigslist is for profit and owned partly by corporations like eBay.

Mark

skype: node.ue


On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:21 AM, Erik Moeller <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Just as a bit of general background for this thread:
>
> The Craig Newmark banner is currently running at 20% on the English
> Wikipedia. It's a pilot to see how our audience responds to
> endorsements and testimonials by third parties. (So far, it is doing
> reasonably well, but not fantastically so; we will likely move on to
> different messages soon.) We're not running a large endorsement
> campaign this year, but we wanted to at least get some data on a
> banner of this type to help us determine whether we want to run more
> such messages in the future.
>
> We approached Craig and asked him whether he would help us with this,
> and he generously agreed. We chose Craig because he represents, to
> many people, a philosophy of the web that is comparable to ours. In
> spite of huge web traffic, Craigslist is run with a staff of 32 and
> carries no ads, and Craig founded a non-profit organization, the
> Craigslist Foundation, to support other non-profits. (CraigsList
> itself is a for-profit.) We're pleased that Craig has joined our
> Advisory Board, and we're happy he agreed to this endorsement.  That
> said, any kind of personal endorsement can certainly polarize.
>
> If, in future, we decide to run more such endorsements, we'll likely
> want to come up with a rich mix of different kinds of people with very
> different backgrounds, both to appeal to different segments of our
> audience, and to get a better understanding of the overall trends.
> --
> Erik Möller
> Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation
>
> Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

geni
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
2009/12/15 Erik Moeller <[hidden email]>:

> Just as a bit of general background for this thread:
>
> The Craig Newmark banner is currently running at 20% on the English
> Wikipedia. It's a pilot to see how our audience responds to
> endorsements and testimonials by third parties. (So far, it is doing
> reasonably well, but not fantastically so; we will likely move on to
> different messages soon.) We're not running a large endorsement
> campaign this year, but we wanted to at least get some data on a
> banner of this type to help us determine whether we want to run more
> such messages in the future.
>
> We approached Craig and asked him whether he would help us with this,
> and he generously agreed. We chose Craig because he represents, to
> many people, a philosophy of the web that is comparable to ours. In
> spite of huge web traffic, Craigslist is run with a staff of 32 and
> carries no ads, and Craig founded a non-profit organization, the
> Craigslist Foundation, to support other non-profits. (CraigsList
> itself is a for-profit.) We're pleased that Craig has joined our
> Advisory Board, and we're happy he agreed to this endorsement.  That
> said, any kind of personal endorsement can certainly polarize.

I'm aware of Craigslist's PR image there is no need to repeat it.  If
you wanted to test endorsements there is no shortage of worthies who
could provide one without needing an advert for their website
appearing on several million page views. Heck if all else failed you
could have dug out those UNESCO contacts we've picked up.

You are helping  Craigslist carry out classic Edward Bernays
propaganda/PR and they are not even having to pay you. I mean yes I'm
quite impressed that Craigslist managed to pull that one off but there
was no need you you to make it so easy for them.

--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

K. Peachey
May I ask why that message appears to be not following out standard
template and having a image as the background? all the others I've
seen only have the logo's in them.... Images like that just make them
even more distracting and disliked.

-Peachey

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Domas Mituzas
In reply to this post by Erik Moeller-4
Erik,

> The Craig Newmark banner is currently running at 20% on the English
> Wikipedia.

How much known is Craigslist outside of US, in other English speaking countries, or countries where English is used as second/primary language on the web?  :)

Domas
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Peter Gervai-5
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 14:42, Domas Mituzas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The Craig Newmark banner is currently running at 20% on the English
>> Wikipedia.
>
> How much known is Craigslist outside of US, in other English speaking countries, or countries where English is used as second/primary language on the web?  :)

Not at all?

grin

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

K. Peachey
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:44 PM, Peter Gervai <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 14:42, Domas Mituzas <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> The Craig Newmark banner is currently running at 20% on the English
>>> Wikipedia.
>>
>> How much known is Craigslist outside of US, in other English speaking countries, or countries where English is used as second/primary language on the web?  :)
>
> Not at all?
>
> grin
It's known of in Australia but not that much, For example Gumtree
(owned by ebay) is more popular over here. Each country kind of have
their own things, some will know of others, but most sites like that
aren't really popular in more than one geographical location.

-Peachey

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Nathan Awrich
Personally, I'm glad the Foundation doesn't have the reflexively
absolutist anti-capitalist stance that some on this list would like
them to have. Happy to see an endorsement from Craig Newmark. Now, if
it were Tiger Woods...

Nathan

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

M. Williamson
Is it really anti-capitalist to be against giving Craigslist free publicity?

Mark

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 7:30 AM, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Personally, I'm glad the Foundation doesn't have the reflexively
> absolutist anti-capitalist stance that some on this list would like
> them to have. Happy to see an endorsement from Craig Newmark. Now, if
> it were Tiger Woods...
>
> Nathan
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

geni
In reply to this post by Nathan Awrich
2009/12/15 Nathan <[hidden email]>:
> Personally, I'm glad the Foundation doesn't have the reflexively
> absolutist anti-capitalist stance that some on this list would like
> them to have. Happy to see an endorsement from Craig Newmark. Now, if
> it were Tiger Woods...
>
> Nathan

Who on this list do you think thinks the foundation should have that attitude?



--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Anthony-73
In reply to this post by M. Williamson
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Mark Williamson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's certainly free publicity for Craigslist, one way or the other.


Who says it's free?  I assume Mr. Newmark made a significant donation.

Maybe that assumption is wrong, though.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by geni
We've advertised third party for-profits in the past with prominent
matched donations notices before (albeit controversially). This isn't
that different. Craigslist gets some publicity and we get some money
(hopefully - it's more definite in the matched donations case, of
course). I don't see a problem.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: advertising craigslist

M. Williamson
In reply to this post by Anthony-73
If that's true, I am even more against this... what does that say about us?

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:14 AM, Anthony <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Mark Williamson <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > It's certainly free publicity for Craigslist, one way or the other.
>
>
> Who says it's free?  I assume Mr. Newmark made a significant donation.
>
> Maybe that assumption is wrong, though.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
1234