all those zeros in tables in text brosers

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
6 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

all those zeros in tables in text brosers

jidanni
I don't see why Wikipedia looks 99% fabulous in lynx and w3m, but blows
it on such a simple thing like dates in tables,

$ lynx -dump http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_social_networking_websites
   Please note the list is not exhaustive, and is limited to notable,
   well-known sites.
   Name Description/Focus Date launched [12]Registered users Registration
   Global [13]Alexa^[14][1] Page ranking
   [15]Academia.edu Social networking site for academics/researchers
   02008-09-01September 2008 &0000000000211000000000211,000^[16][2] Open
   &00000000000092940000009,294^[17][3]
   [18]Advogato [19]Free and [20]open source software developers 01999
   1999 &000000000001357500000013,575^[21][4] Open...

Why can't they go that extra one percent and clean all those silly zeros
out of their tables?

Yes those stubborn text browser users should be denied extra features, but can't they
at least be given something readable. Search engines would thank you
too.

Sure you can say "not a MediaWiki problem, go contact the website", but
if MediaWiki gave them the proper tools to make their templates, they
wouldn't need to make such a mess.

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: all those zeros in tables in text brosers

Chad
On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:23 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Sure you can say "not a MediaWiki problem, go contact the website", but
> if MediaWiki gave them the proper tools to make their templates, they
> wouldn't need to make such a mess.
>

What tools would you propose?

-Chad

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: all those zeros in tables in text brosers

Ilmari Karonen
On 07/09/2011 06:25 AM, Chad wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:23 PM,<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> Sure you can say "not a MediaWiki problem, go contact the website", but
>> if MediaWiki gave them the proper tools to make their templates, they
>> wouldn't need to make such a mess.
>>
>
> What tools would you propose?

A smarter table sorter would help.  (I believe those zeros come from
sort keys generated by templates and hidden from most browsers by CSS.)

As it happens, I believe we've just got (or are about to get?) one.  But
someone ought to go through
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sorting_templates and see just how
many of them we can make unnecessary by smarter sorting.

(It would also be nice to have some way to specify manual sort keys, in
those cases where they really are needed, through some mechanism that
doesn't involve CSS hacks.)

--
Ilmari Karonen

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: all those zeros in tables in text brosers

jidanni
In reply to this post by Chad
>>>>> "C" == Chad  <[hidden email]> writes:
C> What tools would you propose?

Can you find me one site on the Internet that butchers dates so 2011
becomes 02011 in text browsers? Yes I "filed"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Dts#text_browsers .
The next thing you know you'll be rendering it in hexadecimal.

And the all those zer0000000000000s in the tables. My proposal is
set the most important requirement to be that the rendered output
be at least readable, if not the same, for all output devices and
search engines. Then work backwards from that basic requirement to
satisfy internal sorting requirements or what have you.

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: all those zeros in tables in text brosers

Niklas Laxström
In reply to this post by Ilmari Karonen
On 9 July 2011 06:58, Ilmari Karonen <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 07/09/2011 06:25 AM, Chad wrote:
>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:23 PM,<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>> Sure you can say "not a MediaWiki problem, go contact the website", but
>>> if MediaWiki gave them the proper tools to make their templates, they
>>> wouldn't need to make such a mess.
>>>
>>
>> What tools would you propose?
>
> A smarter table sorter would help.  (I believe those zeros come from
> sort keys generated by templates and hidden from most browsers by CSS.)
>
> As it happens, I believe we've just got (or are about to get?) one.  But
> someone ought to go through
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sorting_templates and see just how
> many of them we can make unnecessary by smarter sorting.
>
> (It would also be nice to have some way to specify manual sort keys, in
> those cases where they really are needed, through some mechanism that
> doesn't involve CSS hacks.)

It exists and it's called data-sort-value attribute. And it's already
live on Wikipedia as far as I can see.

  -Niklas

--
Niklas Laxström

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: all those zeros in tables in text brosers

Aryeh Gregor
On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 3:49 AM, Niklas Laxström
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> It exists and it's called data-sort-value attribute. And it's already
> live on Wikipedia as far as I can see.

data-* attributes are only valid in HTML5 and will not work until
$wgHtml5 is set to true.  As has been discussed here a number of
times, it's been true on trunk continuously since r53142 (June 12,
2009) and in releases since 1.16, but it hasn't yet been enabled on
Wikimedia sites.  Apparently there are finally plans to try enabling
it for Wikimedia in the near future.

_______________________________________________
Wikitech-l mailing list
[hidden email]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l