en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

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en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

Federico Leva (Nemo)
I just stumbled upon this (from a user asking help on
#wikimedia-commons): an en.wiki supposedly respected user shows gross
incivility on Commons, a surprised local admin doesn't know what to
think and is insulted in return, the user continues and gets two blocks.[1]
Until a few months ago I would have been suprised too, but I'm not after
the case where a steward had to lock for security reasons a probably
compromised en.wiki sysop and oversighter account, who was insulting
people in all caps, only to be told that the behaviour is absolutely
normal (the lock was quickly reversed).[2]
So I'm wondering, would we benefit from some sort of communication 101
to help understanding between the continent (Wikimedia projects) and the
island (en.wiki), in which inhabitants of the latter are reminded their
communication standards may be misunderstood, and inhabitants of the
former to "keep calm and carry on"?

Nemo

[1] Excerpts:
* Go fuck yourself [...] Tony1 (talk) 03:14, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
* I repeat: Go fuck yourself. Tony1 (talk) 04:00, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Tony1&oldid=94558166#You_have_been_blocked_for_a_duration_of_a_week>
[2] Excerpts:
* «[...] edit summary "FUCK OFF YOU PETTY FASCIST IDIOT", I have blocked
Beeblebrox indefinitely as a possibly compromised account.»
* «I'd say that's a fairly typical response (even if left unsaid) to
anybody who attempts logic with the user Beeblebrox was having a
discussion with. So, probably not compromised.»
* etc.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive244&oldid=538563600#I_have_blocked_User:Beeblebrox_as_a_possibly_compromised_account>
Also reverts of messages, that are apparently free on en.wiki but would
get the user a block on several wikis I know:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Beeblebrox&diff=next&oldid=532574461>

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Re: en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

Nathan Awrich
It's a body with no head, and absent leadership and a mandate you're
never going to achieve a uniform behavioral standard.

Meanwhile, it appears you failed to disclose your own history with at
least one of the users whose behavior you have called out.

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Re: en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Nathan, actually I even linked an example of my "own history" of
misunderstandings, from which I learnt in first person the different
standards of en.wiki. It seemed to me enough context for my proposal,
i.e. to avoid non-en.wiki users to go through the same mistakes again
and again when interacting with en.wiki users.

Nemo

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Re: en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

Nathan Awrich
I don't think what you're seeing is anything particularly peculiar to
en.wp - I've encountered rude or socially awkward people from all
projects. Since the English Wikipedia has by far the most users of any
single project, it only follows that its share of difficult people
works out to a larger number.

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Re: en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

Charles Matthews
On 15 April 2013 16:14, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I don't think what you're seeing is anything particularly peculiar to
> en.wp - I've encountered rude or socially awkward people from all
> projects.

But see discussion on
[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Tony1]]. Some of my
unfavourite people there, for sure. And the comment "What I'll do is
to keep swearing at you".

Charles

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Re: en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

Nathan Awrich
"You're an idiot, and you're damaging the project. It's not about
copyright, or understanding it. What I'll do is to keep swearing at
you, and I'll be uploading tons of files onto en.WP, not Commons. That
will just disadvantage other users, and will cause Commons admins more
work eventually in having to go through the process of transferring
them to Commons. I will refuse to categorise. And I will encourage all
other editors to do the same. Continue your personal vendetta against
me—fine. Again, you and your thug friends on Commons are idiots and
deserve no respect. Tony (talk) 15:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)"

That's the comment Charles refers to. Oops! I can see why some
frustration on Tony1's part is legit; a Commons admin deleted the
image illustrating the Signpost article on the attempt by the DCRI to
have a French Wikipedia article deleted, and then failed to explain it
in a way that would make sense to a non-expert. You won't see me argue
against accusations that Commons is dysfunctional, but the response is
clearly way out of proportion.

But the point that I made, and that probably hundreds of people have
made before me, is that there isn't much we can do without altering
the fundamental architecture of the community.

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Re: en.wiki gross incivility intoxicates Wikimedia projects

Charles Matthews
On 15 April 2013 18:39, Nathan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> "You're an idiot, and you're damaging the project. It's not about
> copyright, or understanding it. What I'll do is to keep swearing at
> you, and I'll be uploading tons of files onto en.WP, not Commons. That
> will just disadvantage other users, and will cause Commons admins more
> work eventually in having to go through the process of transferring
> them to Commons. I will refuse to categorise. And I will encourage all
> other editors to do the same. Continue your personal vendetta against
> me—fine. Again, you and your thug friends on Commons are idiots and
> deserve no respect. Tony (talk) 15:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)"
>
> That's the comment Charles refers to. Oops! I can see why some
> frustration on Tony1's part is legit; a Commons admin deleted the
> image illustrating the Signpost article on the attempt by the DCRI to
> have a French Wikipedia article deleted, and then failed to explain it
> in a way that would make sense to a non-expert. You won't see me argue
> against accusations that Commons is dysfunctional, but the response is
> clearly way out of proportion.
>
> But the point that I made, and that probably hundreds of people have
> made before me, is that there isn't much we can do without altering
> the fundamental architecture of the community.

Actually, that is defeatist talk, and we can.

It is completely clear that some editors use incivility consciously as
a tactic. (The cited conversation is a smoking gun, if one were
needed.) Such people should be sanctioned. Many more people have a
temper (come to think of it, just about everyone does), and the point
needs to be made that sanctioning those who use incivility
systematically and disruptively does not mean sanctioning everyone on
the planet.

Then perhaps we could deal more rationally with the issue that
discussions on enWP are often conducted in the wrong "register".

Charles

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