encouraging women's participation

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
58 messages Options
123
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)
After reading the post below, I have nothing to add to today's
extensive dialog about men's and women's participation, but I have
decided to block Greg Maxwell indefinitely for hate speech against
blondes.

Newyorkbrad



On 6/16/10, Gregory Maxwell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 8:26 PM, phoebe ayers <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> There's been discussion of the gender gap among Wikimedia editors on
>> and off for many years now, and it's a focus of the strategic planning
>> process. This is a part of a larger issue of how to get members of
>> underrepresented groups to edit more, to combat system bias on all
>> fronts. (Or, simply how to get more people to edit regardless).
>
> You may find it interesting that these kind of large imbalances can
> arise out of a simple but surprising mathematical truth:
>
> If you have a mixed population with a skill, say skateboarding, that
> follows the typical normal distribution and one sub-population (e.g.
> people with red hair) have an average performance only slight higher
> than another sub-population (blondes),  and you were to select the
> best skateboarders out of the group you would end up with a
> surprisingly high concentration of the red-hair subgroup, so high that
> it doesn't at all seem justified by the small difference in average
> performance.
>
> This is is because in normal distributions the concentration of people
> with a particular skill falls off exponentially away from the average,
> so if you take the two distributions (amount of skateboarding skill
> for red-hairs and blondes) and shift one a very small amount the ratio
> between the two becomes increasingly large as you select for higher
> and higher skill levels.
>
> The same kind of results happen when, instead of a difference in
> average performance, there is simply a difference in the variation. If
> red-hairs have the same average skate-boarding skill but are less
> consistent— more klutzes _and_ more superstars this has an even larger
> impact than differences in the average, again biasing towards the
> red-hairs.
>
> These effects can be combined, and if there are multiple supporting
> skills for a task they combine multiplicatively.[*]
>
> The applicability here is clear: There is a strong biological argument
> justifying greater variance in genetically linked traits in men (due
> to the decrease in genetic redundancy) which is supported by many
> studies which show greater variance in males.  So all things equal any
> time you select for extremes (high or low performing) you will tend to
> tend to end up with a male biased group. (There are small also
> differences in measured averages between men and women in many
> areas...)
>
> And many of the 'skills' that are reasonable predictions of someone's
> likelihood of being a Wikipedian, if we're even to call them 'skills'
> as many aren't all that flattering,  are obviously male super-abundant
> in the greater world.   How many female obsessive stamp collectors do
> you know? Male?  The kind of obsessive collecting trait is almost so
> exclusively male that it's a cliché, and it's pretty obvious why that
> kind of person would find a calling in Wikipedia.
>
> One piece of insight that comes out of is that general approaches
> which make Wikipedia more palatable to "average people", as opposed to
> uber-obsessive techobibilo walking-fact-machines,  may have a greater
> impact at reducing gender imbalance than female centric improvements.
> (and may also reduce other non-gender related imbalances, such as our
> age imbalance).  So this gives you an extra reason why "more people to
> edit regardless" is an especially useful approach.
>
>
>
> Though are limits to the amount of main-streaming you can do of an
> academic activity such as encyclopaedia writing. :-)
>
> In any case, I don't mean to suggest that your work isn't important or
> can't be worthwhile.  Only that I think you're fighting an uphill
> battle against a number of _natural_ (not human originated) biases,
> and I wish you luck!
>
>
>
> [*] A while back I wrote up a longer and highly technical version of
> this explanation as part of an argument on gender imbalances in
> computer science with a mathematician. Anyone into math-wankery may
> find it interesting:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/mf_compsci
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Nikola Smolenski-2
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Дана Saturday 19 June 2010 05:58:31 Milos Rancic написа:
> That means that we need games for women. While I think that we should
> build full social network, just a basic one would help.

Ability to make other editors your "friends", then you could watch their
Special:Contributions jointly (see what are your friends editing).

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Nikola Smolenski-2
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Дана Saturday 19 June 2010 05:58:31 Milos Rancic написа:
> That means that we need games for women. While I think that we should
> build full social network, just a basic one would help.

Or perhaps we don't even have to build one, but just use the existing ones.
[People are always against making Wikipedia a social network.] Have RSS feeds
of articles you created/pictures you uploaded. These could then be connected
to Facebook or wherever for your friends to see what are you working on.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Milos Rancic-2
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Дана Saturday 19 June 2010 05:58:31 Milos Rancic написа:
>> That means that we need games for women. While I think that we should
>> build full social network, just a basic one would help.
>
> Or perhaps we don't even have to build one, but just use the existing ones.
> [People are always against making Wikipedia a social network.] Have RSS feeds
> of articles you created/pictures you uploaded. These could then be connected
> to Facebook or wherever for your friends to see what are you working on.

Then you are using Facebook, not Wikimedia. And Flickr is much better
for private photos than Wikimedia.

BTW, there is not space for negotiations anymore. Wikimedia will be a
social network, too, or it will continue to loose editors.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Nikola Smolenski-2
Дана Saturday 19 June 2010 07:37:18 Milos Rancic написа:
> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Or perhaps we don't even have to build one, but just use the existing
> > ones. [People are always against making Wikipedia a social network.] Have
> > RSS feeds of articles you created/pictures you uploaded. These could then
> > be connected to Facebook or wherever for your friends to see what are you
> > working on.
>
> Then you are using Facebook, not Wikimedia. And Flickr is much better
> for private photos than Wikimedia.

Then your Facebook friends will see that you are doing interesting things on
Wikipedia projects and will want to do them too.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Keegan Peterzell
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 12:40 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[hidden email]>wrote:

>
> Then your Facebook friends will see that you are doing interesting things
> on
> Wikipedia projects and will want to do them too.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

I'm pretty sure my facebook friends don't care what I do for Wikimedia
(which is all my info is), they're in it for my awesome status updates.

End thread, we are all pro-female editors.

--
~Keegan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Milos Rancic-2
In reply to this post by Nikola Smolenski-2
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 7:40 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Дана Saturday 19 June 2010 07:37:18 Milos Rancic написа:
>> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> > Or perhaps we don't even have to build one, but just use the existing
>> > ones. [People are always against making Wikipedia a social network.] Have
>> > RSS feeds of articles you created/pictures you uploaded. These could then
>> > be connected to Facebook or wherever for your friends to see what are you
>> > working on.
>>
>> Then you are using Facebook, not Wikimedia. And Flickr is much better
>> for private photos than Wikimedia.
>
> Then your Facebook friends will see that you are doing interesting things on
> Wikipedia projects and will want to do them too.

I don't think that it is particularly interesting to see someone's
edits. If you are not a passionate Wikimedian, of course.

Besides that, contemporary term for "site" is "social network". There
are just more and less successful social networks. Wikimedia is
successful social network for a very specific type of demographics:
young middle class males. Actually, not so young anymore. I think that
we are loosing males from younger generations, too.

That means that we have to work on diversification of our editor
demographics. And one edit in ten days is better than no edits at all.
We need cleverly created concepts which would make editing easy, fun,
causal. With a lot of interesting content around; probably, based on
existing Wikimedia content, but not necessary.

The time when wiki concept was new and interesting passed a few years
ago. And even Microsoft has better sense for new technologies than us.

For example, our goal is not to make a possibility to read Wikipedia
from iPhone. Apple did that. The goal is to have easy access to
editing from iPhone.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Pronoein
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Some ideas to increase the social aspect of Wikipedia:
- - insert a small chat with channels for each chapter (for example where
the interwiki links were ;) )
- - make a tab for personal comments for articles, where people can
express their feelings
- - show the last 10 comments on the right side of the article
- - soften the notability criterion
- - make a reward system for spell correction (automatically attributed by
bot unless reverted), for adding references (must be validated by
moderator or voted by users)
- - associate galleries of sounds and/or photos that you can expand or
browse with one click
- - create challenges or games for wikipedia: charades pointing to an
article to be discovered, collections to be completed (find ten articles
with x or y characteristics), create fantasy articles only useful for
the game with a warning that it's only RPG, etc.
- - allow a friend system and allow to import them from facebook
- - develop the homepage of wikipedia and wikinews so that they combine
major news with the major updates of the pages we are watching, and more
information about your friends
- - allow a button "recommend this article to a friend" with feedback from
the friend, like a karma count, a thank you count, or the likes
etc.

On 19/06/2010 08:37, Milos Rancic wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 7:40 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Дана Saturday 19 June 2010 07:37:18 Milos Rancic написа:
>>> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 7:30 AM, Nikola Smolenski <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> Or perhaps we don't even have to build one, but just use the existing
>>>> ones. [People are always against making Wikipedia a social network.] Have
>>>> RSS feeds of articles you created/pictures you uploaded. These could then
>>>> be connected to Facebook or wherever for your friends to see what are you
>>>> working on.
>>>
>>> Then you are using Facebook, not Wikimedia. And Flickr is much better
>>> for private photos than Wikimedia.
>>
>> Then your Facebook friends will see that you are doing interesting things on
>> Wikipedia projects and will want to do them too.
>
> I don't think that it is particularly interesting to see someone's
> edits. If you are not a passionate Wikimedian, of course.
>
> Besides that, contemporary term for "site" is "social network". There
> are just more and less successful social networks. Wikimedia is
> successful social network for a very specific type of demographics:
> young middle class males. Actually, not so young anymore. I think that
> we are loosing males from younger generations, too.
>
> That means that we have to work on diversification of our editor
> demographics. And one edit in ten days is better than no edits at all.
> We need cleverly created concepts which would make editing easy, fun,
> causal. With a lot of interesting content around; probably, based on
> existing Wikimedia content, but not necessary.
>
> The time when wiki concept was new and interesting passed a few years
> ago. And even Microsoft has better sense for new technologies than us.
>
> For example, our goal is not to make a possibility to read Wikipedia
> from iPhone. Apple did that. The goal is to have easy access to
> editing from iPhone.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMHIe3AAoJEHCAuDvx9Z6Lq+kH/0YyBREHI09b5cfsBhD3IMBV
ozWjpWA2r1//t2cDaiPNpfpyNXoNRwKhCw5m5VtKbmucAiyxLyjqwmPRsh0gZULs
1gNE1bC1DPVKL0R1LZCnCJYngAmhRMODOcwv4abwigA6sqsqdXGfs+07ABHNWVzq
hLlM++mEV2z8IjYIxwL7DLK5T1hK8axLSXgmP6PhhawoBZa3K8IjahHk112J8NnZ
E2lKjhOs2K4R3aviDKgLONuMXYXSdoaWsV3J5TFdOKTPEWhhsMh55DO2urQyJNFT
fJlWLsc3woYaEJrI2ztsLZ9/S+WYUTxoACXK0jmA78sP/e66MlYVYTOi1VOXs/E=
=GQMh
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Keegan Peterzell
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 4:02 AM, Noein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Some ideas to increase the social aspect of Wikipedia:
> - - insert a small chat with channels for each chapter (for example where
> the interwiki links were ;) )
> - - make a tab for personal comments for articles, where people can
> express their feelings
> - - show the last 10 comments on the right side of the article
> - - soften the notability criterion
> - - make a reward system for spell correction (automatically attributed by
> bot unless reverted), for adding references (must be validated by
> moderator or voted by users)
> - - associate galleries of sounds and/or photos that you can expand or
> browse with one click
> - - create challenges or games for wikipedia: charades pointing to an
> article to be discovered, collections to be completed (find ten articles
> with x or y characteristics), create fantasy articles only useful for
> the game with a warning that it's only RPG, etc.
> - - allow a friend system and allow to import them from facebook
> - - develop the homepage of wikipedia and wikinews so that they combine
> major news with the major updates of the pages we are watching, and more
> information about your friends
> - - allow a button "recommend this article to a friend" with feedback from
> the friend, like a karma count, a thank you count, or the likes
> etc.


My jaw just dropped.  While I know these are ideas intended to help increase
the socialization, this is turning Wikipedia into youtube.  The day that
happens I'm resigning all my permissions and packing my bags.  Softening
notability?  Fantasy articles?  Games?  Live comments?  No thanks.

I don't think the idea of encouraging women to participate needs these
things.  I have a fierce dislike for what I consider to be the mind-numbing
distraction that social networking sites provide.  I'd rather use Wikimedia
projects to stimulate my mind, not kill time.
--
~Keegan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Milos Rancic-2
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]> wrote:
> My jaw just dropped.  While I know these are ideas intended to help increase
> the socialization, this is turning Wikipedia into youtube.  The day that
> happens I'm resigning all my permissions and packing my bags.  Softening
> notability?  Fantasy articles?  Games?  Live comments?  No thanks.

While I would like to see good articles about every episode of
whatever on Wikipedia, this was not the point.

The point is to make "personal space" on Wikimedia projects. Adding
features to the profile (now: Special:Preferences) will increase
number of those who are willing to stay on project.

> I don't think the idea of encouraging women to participate needs these
> things.  I have a fierce dislike for what I consider to be the mind-numbing
> distraction that social networking sites provide.  I'd rather use Wikimedia
> projects to stimulate my mind, not kill time.

You should be able to turn off those features.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Keegan Peterzell
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> While I would like to see good articles about every episode of
> whatever on Wikipedia, this was not the point.
>
> The point is to make "personal space" on Wikimedia projects. Adding
> features to the profile (now: Special:Preferences) will increase
> number of those who are willing to stay on project.


I can only speak from my experience on the English Wikipedia, so I'll
address this relating to that project:

It will never happen.

We've been through these discussions there before on what is and what is not
acceptable use of the space for social networking.  We have come to the
conclusion that it is not[1] in several different ways[2].  The purpose of
the English Wikipedia, and all Foundation projects for that matter, is to
provide free knowledge in whatever for it comes in, when it's an
encyclopedia or a quote or a sourced document or a book or news.  We also
have determined that we use a collaborative model to build these project.

Therein lies the key: build these projects.  This is accomplished by working
together in a communal manner and this is the "social" networking that we
need, working together on projects with those of the same interest, or even
just wandering around the wikis doing things.  So, to me, these ideas as
features diminishes the interest of maintaining a volunteer, amateur
userbase but one that is dedicated and willing to work together.  Akin to
the HAM radio system, I think.

There was a great TED speech that I need to look up but don't have the time
for at the moment.  The premise of the presentation is that studies have
shown time and time again that things like games, prizes, awards and other
measures of gratitude are only temporary measures to increase motivation.
 The folks that work for you that are the truly motivated ones and believers
in the process do not ask for these rewards.  A pat on the back and a "good
job, thanks for your work because I value it very much" occasionally is the
only true recognition that is needed.  The other fluff only inspires
distraction from the goal because it's creating other little goals which, in
turn, become more important than the end result.

Just my two cents.

1. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:NOT#MYSPACE>
2. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Userpage>

--
~Keegan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Keegan
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Excirial
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
Just a comment in general and not a reply to anyone specific.

The ultimate goal of Wikipedia is building an Encyclopedia, and all the
activities around it (Talk pages, discussion pages, IRC channels and so on)
are intended to support these goals. Sure, we have a friendly discussion on
a talk page every now and then, but most of our efforts are related to
improving Wikipedia. Some people join us because they love a free
information society. Other join us because they like writing or want to
share knowledge. And some people just enjoy reading Wikipedia, making small
corrections every now and then. The reasons to join are legion - Of course
they equally include spamming, PoV pushing and vandalizing as well but i
will be ignoring the negative ones for now.

Yet Wikipedia is not a social network or a game site. We are certainly a
community, but we are not myspace, facebook or youtube just to name a few.
People should be here to create an encyclopedia, not to play games, chat or
whatever. People who join for those reasons are likely not here to create an
encyclopedia in the first place, and there are other sites on the web which
satisfy their desires a lot better then we can. I do not believe in the
citizendium model where only verified experts receive full privileges while
the normal people receive a function somewhere in the back, but at the very
least we should draw a line between "Interested in creating an encyclopedia"
and "Not here to create an encyclopedia". If we go the social network route
we will soon be swarmed with people that add literally nothing at all to the
project itself ("Give me Kudo's." - "Oh, you like kittens to? Lets chat!" -
"i found the secret article after just 10 minutes!"). Sure, our editor count
might rise if we offer diversions, but this is similar to edit count -
Quality over Quantity.

If anything i would say there are two types of editors who may quit - the
one's who don't like Wikipedia, and the ones who don't understand Wikipedia.
The former group are the PoV pushers, the people who are not really
interested in writing an encyclopedia, the vandals and the spammers. The
second group consists out of people who simply don't get all the rules, who
find the Wikisyntax to difficult, who get warned when they try to edit and
so on. If anything we should focus or recruitment efforts on the second
group, as they are the ones who are potentially interested in helping with
Wikipedia. We certainly should not be changing Wikipedia just to cater to
the former group.

For now we will just have to be satisfied with the editors that do join us.
Writing an encyclopedia is not the only thing one can do in his free time,
and some people simple prefer other diversions. That doesn't mean we
shouldn't spread the word about Wikipedia to interest people, but neither
does it mean that we should adapt Wikipedia for the sake of attracting the
largest amount of people we can.

~Excirial


On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 10:29 PM, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Keegan Peterzell <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > My jaw just dropped.  While I know these are ideas intended to help
> increase
> > the socialization, this is turning Wikipedia into youtube.  The day that
> > happens I'm resigning all my permissions and packing my bags.  Softening
> > notability?  Fantasy articles?  Games?  Live comments?  No thanks.
>
> While I would like to see good articles about every episode of
> whatever on Wikipedia, this was not the point.
>
> The point is to make "personal space" on Wikimedia projects. Adding
> features to the profile (now: Special:Preferences) will increase
> number of those who are willing to stay on project.
>
> > I don't think the idea of encouraging women to participate needs these
> > things.  I have a fierce dislike for what I consider to be the
> mind-numbing
> > distraction that social networking sites provide.  I'd rather use
> Wikimedia
> > projects to stimulate my mind, not kill time.
>
> You should be able to turn off those features.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Marc Riddell
In reply to this post by Keegan Peterzell
on 6/19/10 4:58 PM, Keegan Peterzell at [hidden email] wrote:

<snip>.

>
> There was a great TED speech that I need to look up but don't have the time
> for at the moment.  The premise of the presentation is that studies have
> shown time and time again that things like games, prizes, awards and other
> measures of gratitude are only temporary measures to increase motivation.
> The folks that work for you that are the truly motivated ones and believers
> in the process do not ask for these rewards.  A pat on the back and a "good
> job, thanks for your work because I value it very much" occasionally is the
> only true recognition that is needed.  The other fluff only inspires
> distraction from the goal because it's creating other little goals which, in
> turn, become more important than the end result.

Yes! Prizes denote direct competition as in sports or, more subtly, with the
science & arts awards.

Person-to-person affirmation goes a very long way; and is what collaboration
& community should be based upon. Give them the climate, and they will give
you the culture.

Marc Riddell



_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Pronoein
In reply to this post by Keegan Peterzell
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 19/06/2010 19:53, Keegan Peterzell wrote:
> My jaw just dropped.  While I know these are ideas intended to help increase
> the socialization, this is turning Wikipedia into youtube.  The day that
> happens I'm resigning all my permissions and packing my bags.  Softening
> notability?  Fantasy articles?  Games?  Live comments?  No thanks.
>
> I don't think the idea of encouraging women to participate needs these
> things.  I have a fierce dislike for what I consider to be the mind-numbing
> distraction that social networking sites provide.  I'd rather use Wikimedia
> projects to stimulate my mind, not kill time.

Then I made my point. I think futilizing wikipedia is the worst thing we
can do.

On 19/06/2010 07:30, Nikola Smolenski wrote:
> ???? Saturday 19 June 2010 05:58:31 Milos Rancic ??????:
>> That means that we need games for women. While I think that we should
>> build full social network, just a basic one would help.
>
> Or perhaps we don't even have to build one, but just use the existing
ones.
> [People are always against making Wikipedia a social network.] Have
RSS feeds
> of articles you created/pictures you uploaded. These could then be
connected
> to Facebook or wherever for your friends to see what are you working on.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMHTsdAAoJEHCAuDvx9Z6L+0EIAID3Mr9YKjNNt8WoheHalzw+
n48XQ46nUBbYtb2m38a/IE6TgP1V+rVLb7jvmNZO7wX2CmuO/sW4SlB0phVxcGea
ohDgjDga1u4tXEVnikape4uXCrEyup9EgrTDypb/altrF/dOdzQb9DfoEgqlScL7
v0A/FyD4KHHE0/E1ehI2UdmXyxp4+430T7tdWYM9kqeXUfDHifxjXoATvv1ZK707
jzJr4XiwMfZ2QvCC6M8u+KQIJBU0wSx49iRKZCRtqwPtgp6kzPiyDO5jlzIdleuP
2DOPh7MmQQ2Bed7go90AIrgPQG+DnFGfN+WQqzB7QPis8eFxFe3F1hntU8LhAMQ=
=SSCl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Sydney Poore
In reply to this post by Marc Riddell
English Wikipedia has numerous contests during the year. Some people
regularly participate in them and enjoy them.

Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Contest is an example of one that is
ongoing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MILCON

Picture of the year is popular with some people on Commons.

While everyone does not want to be involved in contests, they appeal to some
people and I see no problem with us introducing more of them in WMF projects
to see if they will draw people into the movement.

I feel the same way about encouraging new ways to get different groups of
people involved with WMF projects.

If gaming can be used to promote an interest in WMF then that is goodness.
Puzzles, board games, and even more complex fantasy games using content
might be a draw for some people. If someone wants to develop them I would
not stand in there way.

Combining community service and socializing is very common in community
organizations, and is appealing to many people. By adding more social
components to WMF projects, we will most likely draw in people that
otherwise would not volunteer. I see this as an important tool and one that
should not be dismissed if we are going to broaden the base of our
volunteers.

Sydney Poore
(FloNight)

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Marc Riddell <[hidden email]>wrote:

> on 6/19/10 4:58 PM, Keegan Peterzell at [hidden email] wrote:
>
> <snip>.
> >
> > There was a great TED speech that I need to look up but don't have the
> time
> > for at the moment.  The premise of the presentation is that studies have
> > shown time and time again that things like games, prizes, awards and
> other
> > measures of gratitude are only temporary measures to increase motivation.
> > The folks that work for you that are the truly motivated ones and
> believers
> > in the process do not ask for these rewards.  A pat on the back and a
> "good
> > job, thanks for your work because I value it very much" occasionally is
> the
> > only true recognition that is needed.  The other fluff only inspires
> > distraction from the goal because it's creating other little goals which,
> in
> > turn, become more important than the end result.
>
> Yes! Prizes denote direct competition as in sports or, more subtly, with
> the
> science & arts awards.
>
> Person-to-person affirmation goes a very long way; and is what
> collaboration
> & community should be based upon. Give them the climate, and they will give
> you the culture.
>
> Marc Riddell
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Marc Riddell
Sydney,

I agree with your thoughts here. But you are talking about activities
community members can participate in. I am talking about how those community
members interact with each other.

Marc


on 6/19/10 5:58 PM, Sydney Poore at [hidden email] wrote:

> English Wikipedia has numerous contests during the year. Some people
> regularly participate in them and enjoy them.
>
> Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Contest is an example of one that is
> ongoing.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MILCON
>
> Picture of the year is popular with some people on Commons.
>
> While everyone does not want to be involved in contests, they appeal to some
> people and I see no problem with us introducing more of them in WMF projects
> to see if they will draw people into the movement.
>
> I feel the same way about encouraging new ways to get different groups of
> people involved with WMF projects.
>
> If gaming can be used to promote an interest in WMF then that is goodness.
> Puzzles, board games, and even more complex fantasy games using content
> might be a draw for some people. If someone wants to develop them I would
> not stand in there way.
>
> Combining community service and socializing is very common in community
> organizations, and is appealing to many people. By adding more social
> components to WMF projects, we will most likely draw in people that
> otherwise would not volunteer. I see this as an important tool and one that
> should not be dismissed if we are going to broaden the base of our
> volunteers.
>
> Sydney Poore
> (FloNight)
>
> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Marc Riddell
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> on 6/19/10 4:58 PM, Keegan Peterzell at [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> <snip>.
>>>
>>> There was a great TED speech that I need to look up but don't have the
>> time
>>> for at the moment.  The premise of the presentation is that studies have
>>> shown time and time again that things like games, prizes, awards and
>> other
>>> measures of gratitude are only temporary measures to increase motivation.
>>> The folks that work for you that are the truly motivated ones and
>> believers
>>> in the process do not ask for these rewards.  A pat on the back and a
>> "good
>>> job, thanks for your work because I value it very much" occasionally is
>> the
>>> only true recognition that is needed.  The other fluff only inspires
>>> distraction from the goal because it's creating other little goals which,
>> in
>>> turn, become more important than the end result.
>>
>> Yes! Prizes denote direct competition as in sports or, more subtly, with
>> the
>> science & arts awards.
>>
>> Person-to-person affirmation goes a very long way; and is what
>> collaboration
>> & community should be based upon. Give them the climate, and they will give
>> you the culture.
>>
>> Marc Riddell
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l


_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Pronoein
In reply to this post by Sydney Poore
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Wikipedia should be kept a neutral repository of knowledge, not a social
ground for games. Once you take the path of creating a futile community,
there is no way to talk about the long term goals of the WMF, the
vision, the ethics, the humanity, the knowledge. You just have people
who are here to have fun and to socialize. It would add noise, not signal.

Moreover, I think attracting readers is very different from attracting
editors. I don't see how it would be positive to convince people to edit
articles with superficial reasons in mind.

However external sites could use the content for games or comments (like
Facebook does). This way, the site originating the "fun attitude" would
be distinct from the site about knowledge. Wikipedia would get attention
without being invaded.


On 19/06/2010 23:58, Sydney Poore wrote:

> English Wikipedia has numerous contests during the year. Some people
> regularly participate in them and enjoy them.
>
> Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Contest is an example of one that is
> ongoing.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MILCON
>
> Picture of the year is popular with some people on Commons.
>
> While everyone does not want to be involved in contests, they appeal to some
> people and I see no problem with us introducing more of them in WMF projects
> to see if they will draw people into the movement.
>
> I feel the same way about encouraging new ways to get different groups of
> people involved with WMF projects.
>
> If gaming can be used to promote an interest in WMF then that is goodness.
> Puzzles, board games, and even more complex fantasy games using content
> might be a draw for some people. If someone wants to develop them I would
> not stand in there way.
>
> Combining community service and socializing is very common in community
> organizations, and is appealing to many people. By adding more social
> components to WMF projects, we will most likely draw in people that
> otherwise would not volunteer. I see this as an important tool and one that
> should not be dismissed if we are going to broaden the base of our
> volunteers.
>
> Sydney Poore
> (FloNight)
>
> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Marc Riddell <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> on 6/19/10 4:58 PM, Keegan Peterzell at [hidden email] wrote:
>>
>> <snip>.
>>>
>>> There was a great TED speech that I need to look up but don't have the
>> time
>>> for at the moment.  The premise of the presentation is that studies have
>>> shown time and time again that things like games, prizes, awards and
>> other
>>> measures of gratitude are only temporary measures to increase motivation.
>>> The folks that work for you that are the truly motivated ones and
>> believers
>>> in the process do not ask for these rewards.  A pat on the back and a
>> "good
>>> job, thanks for your work because I value it very much" occasionally is
>> the
>>> only true recognition that is needed.  The other fluff only inspires
>>> distraction from the goal because it's creating other little goals which,
>> in
>>> turn, become more important than the end result.
>>
>> Yes! Prizes denote direct competition as in sports or, more subtly, with
>> the
>> science & arts awards.
>>
>> Person-to-person affirmation goes a very long way; and is what
>> collaboration
>> & community should be based upon. Give them the climate, and they will give
>> you the culture.
>>
>> Marc Riddell
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/

iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMHUNyAAoJEHCAuDvx9Z6LUUYIAOM+5k+9DTcEZsjBfrG5gRI2
+QWaqRNB3+H7ax2qculCgBX7Y801SSxkuolnpouhy247xXq/GqH+3/WHGEf9bAd9
dt+D0Dzfhvvl3Ag+vTvcRPWBIaH6ZiZvuO5b6uGa2rmiK6h9C+mJEEcIVmiPtsuH
p4vh1xUnB3jjK3fzpkVBdT+4C8+XpViwhdEFzMagBEmCaIh6qABrRhe+f/vC7crZ
Ao0IZj/SjNuP4J/nWBjngiFcXabQdBYCarjc5gkWeF8ma75YEqmCBWe4YRcqYyOE
Opb5S/V7Zoc3IFq3zJbWaP2WBjY8omHqMA6e5dBYpH8AIEH0XzJCMd6HteGJASI=
=RCSg
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Sydney Poore
In reply to this post by Marc Riddell
Oh, I agree that thanking someone for their service to WMF projects is
important, too. We need to do more to recognize the invaluable contributions
that we people make to keep the various projects going.

But, in addition to giving encouragement though thanks and recognition, I
support introducing social features into our projects. The main benefit and
focus for the on site features would be the ability for people with similar
interests to connect with each other as they work together on site.

See the list of ideas from the strategic planning process.

http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Task_force/Recommendations/Community_health_1Volunteer
recognition

http://strategy.wikimedia.org/wiki/Task_force/Recommendations/Community_health_4Social
features

Sydney

On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 6:15 PM, Marc Riddell <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Sydney,
>
> I agree with your thoughts here. But you are talking about activities
> community members can participate in. I am talking about how those
> community
> members interact with each other.
>
> Marc
>
>
> on 6/19/10 5:58 PM, Sydney Poore at [hidden email] wrote:
>
> > English Wikipedia has numerous contests during the year. Some people
> > regularly participate in them and enjoy them.
> >
> > Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Contest is an example of one that
> is
> > ongoing.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MILCON
> >
> > Picture of the year is popular with some people on Commons.
> >
> > While everyone does not want to be involved in contests, they appeal to
> some
> > people and I see no problem with us introducing more of them in WMF
> projects
> > to see if they will draw people into the movement.
> >
> > I feel the same way about encouraging new ways to get different groups of
> > people involved with WMF projects.
> >
> > If gaming can be used to promote an interest in WMF then that is
> goodness.
> > Puzzles, board games, and even more complex fantasy games using content
> > might be a draw for some people. If someone wants to develop them I would
> > not stand in there way.
> >
> > Combining community service and socializing is very common in community
> > organizations, and is appealing to many people. By adding more social
> > components to WMF projects, we will most likely draw in people that
> > otherwise would not volunteer. I see this as an important tool and one
> that
> > should not be dismissed if we are going to broaden the base of our
> > volunteers.
> >
> > Sydney Poore
> > (FloNight)
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Marc Riddell
> > <[hidden email]>wrote:
> >
> >> on 6/19/10 4:58 PM, Keegan Peterzell at [hidden email] wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>.
> >>>
> >>> There was a great TED speech that I need to look up but don't have the
> >> time
> >>> for at the moment.  The premise of the presentation is that studies
> have
> >>> shown time and time again that things like games, prizes, awards and
> >> other
> >>> measures of gratitude are only temporary measures to increase
> motivation.
> >>> The folks that work for you that are the truly motivated ones and
> >> believers
> >>> in the process do not ask for these rewards.  A pat on the back and a
> >> "good
> >>> job, thanks for your work because I value it very much" occasionally is
> >> the
> >>> only true recognition that is needed.  The other fluff only inspires
> >>> distraction from the goal because it's creating other little goals
> which,
> >> in
> >>> turn, become more important than the end result.
> >>
> >> Yes! Prizes denote direct competition as in sports or, more subtly, with
> >> the
> >> science & arts awards.
> >>
> >> Person-to-person affirmation goes a very long way; and is what
> >> collaboration
> >> & community should be based upon. Give them the climate, and they will
> give
> >> you the culture.
> >>
> >> Marc Riddell
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Sydney Poore
In reply to this post by Pronoein
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 6:23 PM, Noein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Wikipedia should be kept a neutral repository of knowledge, not a social
> ground for games. Once you take the path of creating a futile community,
> there is no way to talk about the long term goals of the WMF, the
> vision, the ethics, the humanity, the knowledge. You just have people
> who are here to have fun and to socialize. It would add noise, not signal.
>

> Moreover, I think attracting readers is very different from attracting
> editors. I don't see how it would be positive to convince people to edit
> articles with superficial reasons in mind.
>

My main point is that we could be more fun and accomplish our work better
because we would have more hands doing the work. I don't see doing hard work
and fun as being mutually exclusive.


>
> However external sites could use the content for games or comments (like
> Facebook does). This way, the site originating the "fun attitude" would
> be distinct from the site about knowledge. Wikipedia would get attention
> without being invaded.
>

Yes, integrating with social networking sites and perhaps other real world
venues would be a good way to add a social side to WMF.

Sydney Poore

>
>
> On 19/06/2010 23:58, Sydney Poore wrote:
> > English Wikipedia has numerous contests during the year. Some people
> > regularly participate in them and enjoy them.
> >
> > Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Contest is an example of one that
> is
> > ongoing.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:MILCON
> >
> > Picture of the year is popular with some people on Commons.
> >
> > While everyone does not want to be involved in contests, they appeal to
> some
> > people and I see no problem with us introducing more of them in WMF
> projects
> > to see if they will draw people into the movement.
> >
> > I feel the same way about encouraging new ways to get different groups of
> > people involved with WMF projects.
> >
> > If gaming can be used to promote an interest in WMF then that is
> goodness.
> > Puzzles, board games, and even more complex fantasy games using content
> > might be a draw for some people. If someone wants to develop them I would
> > not stand in there way.
> >
> > Combining community service and socializing is very common in community
> > organizations, and is appealing to many people. By adding more social
> > components to WMF projects, we will most likely draw in people that
> > otherwise would not volunteer. I see this as an important tool and one
> that
> > should not be dismissed if we are going to broaden the base of our
> > volunteers.
> >
> > Sydney Poore
> > (FloNight)
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 5:29 PM, Marc Riddell <
> [hidden email]>wrote:
> >
> >> on 6/19/10 4:58 PM, Keegan Peterzell at [hidden email] wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>.
> >>>
> >>> There was a great TED speech that I need to look up but don't have the
> >> time
> >>> for at the moment.  The premise of the presentation is that studies
> have
> >>> shown time and time again that things like games, prizes, awards and
> >> other
> >>> measures of gratitude are only temporary measures to increase
> motivation.
> >>> The folks that work for you that are the truly motivated ones and
> >> believers
> >>> in the process do not ask for these rewards.  A pat on the back and a
> >> "good
> >>> job, thanks for your work because I value it very much" occasionally is
> >> the
> >>> only true recognition that is needed.  The other fluff only inspires
> >>> distraction from the goal because it's creating other little goals
> which,
> >> in
> >>> turn, become more important than the end result.
> >>
> >> Yes! Prizes denote direct competition as in sports or, more subtly, with
> >> the
> >> science & arts awards.
> >>
> >> Person-to-person affirmation goes a very long way; and is what
> >> collaboration
> >> & community should be based upon. Give them the climate, and they will
> give
> >> you the culture.
> >>
> >> Marc Riddell
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> foundation-l mailing list
> >> [hidden email]
> >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJMHUNyAAoJEHCAuDvx9Z6LUUYIAOM+5k+9DTcEZsjBfrG5gRI2
> +QWaqRNB3+H7ax2qculCgBX7Y801SSxkuolnpouhy247xXq/GqH+3/WHGEf9bAd9
> dt+D0Dzfhvvl3Ag+vTvcRPWBIaH6ZiZvuO5b6uGa2rmiK6h9C+mJEEcIVmiPtsuH
> p4vh1xUnB3jjK3fzpkVBdT+4C8+XpViwhdEFzMagBEmCaIh6qABrRhe+f/vC7crZ
> Ao0IZj/SjNuP4J/nWBjngiFcXabQdBYCarjc5gkWeF8ma75YEqmCBWe4YRcqYyOE
> Opb5S/V7Zoc3IFq3zJbWaP2WBjY8omHqMA6e5dBYpH8AIEH0XzJCMd6HteGJASI=
> =RCSg
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: encouraging women's participation

Milos Rancic-2
In reply to this post by Keegan Peterzell
On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 10:58 PM, Keegan Peterzell
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 19, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> While I would like to see good articles about every episode of
>> whatever on Wikipedia, this was not the point.
>>
>> The point is to make "personal space" on Wikimedia projects. Adding
>> features to the profile (now: Special:Preferences) will increase
>> number of those who are willing to stay on project.
>
>
> I can only speak from my experience on the English Wikipedia, so I'll
> address this relating to that project:
>
> It will never happen.
>
> We've been through these discussions there before on what is and what is not
> acceptable use of the space for social networking.  We have come to the
> conclusion that it is not[1] in several different ways[2].  The purpose of
> the English Wikipedia, and all Foundation projects for that matter, is to
> provide free knowledge in whatever for it comes in, when it's an
> encyclopedia or a quote or a sourced document or a book or news.  We also
> have determined that we use a collaborative model to build these project.
>
> Therein lies the key: build these projects.  This is accomplished by working
> together in a communal manner and this is the "social" networking that we
> need, working together on projects with those of the same interest, or even
> just wandering around the wikis doing things.  So, to me, these ideas as
> features diminishes the interest of maintaining a volunteer, amateur
> userbase but one that is dedicated and willing to work together.  Akin to
> the HAM radio system, I think.

You are missing the point again :) I am not talking about transforming
user pages into MySpace pages, but about new layer at all Wikimedia
projects, which would stay at the place of Special:Preferences. So, it
is about personal space, which rudimentary exists inside of watchlist
and similar. It is also about customization. For example, as a
registered user, I want to have customized Main Page for myself. Also,
those who don't want to use that, they should be able not to use.

Treat it as a feature which extends logging in to the site. During the
1990s the most of sites didn't have log in option. The first "social"
extension of the log in option was profile. The last are social
networking extensions.

We've implemented the first one, but we've stopped after it. And time
is passing and new projects are passing us with options which aren't
treated as the edge of technology or something specific, but as a
common part of being on Internet.

HAM is exactly something which shouldn't be our model. *Social* (in
contrast to technological, military or whatever) impact of HAM
community is around zero. Although I am a GNU/Linux admin and although
I am including HAM drivers whenever I compile kernel ("just in
case..." :) ), the only time -- known to me -- when HAM network had
wider social impact was during the NATO bombing of Serbia in 1999.
Nothing before, nothing after.

Contrary, our social impact is for a couple of years at the
civilization scale and there is no sense to go backward. Besides
building the encyclopedia, Wikimedia community has already built
cultural movement of unprecedented scale. And present MediaWiki
implementation is not enough to support the movement. In other words:
Wikimedia is not just Wikipedia.

> There was a great TED speech that I need to look up but don't have the time
> for at the moment.  The premise of the presentation is that studies have
> shown time and time again that things like games, prizes, awards and other
> measures of gratitude are only temporary measures to increase motivation.
>  The folks that work for you that are the truly motivated ones and believers
> in the process do not ask for these rewards.  A pat on the back and a "good
> job, thanks for your work because I value it very much" occasionally is the
> only true recognition that is needed.  The other fluff only inspires
> distraction from the goal because it's creating other little goals which, in
> turn, become more important than the end result.

http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_pink_on_motivation.html

As well as dopamine works during the work, not when the prize has been
get: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrCVu25wQ5s

But, it is just about money and goods, as well as that part of
psychology is at the very beginning. Social rewards are much more
powerful. (Note that there are many social stigmas because people
won't do something for money or goods.) I believe that we would have
an editor boom just with "like" button for edits, talk comments and
comments [on Wikinews].

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
123