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foundation assembly?

Patrick Kenel
Hi all!
 
I'd like to ask Michael or Nando whether they thought about to procede to the foundation of our chapter. The bylaws are getting fixed now, we're establishing a mail address, technical support is clear and the Wikipedia Day is approaching. Back in January, we considered the foundation somewhen in February or March. Now that we're already in the second half of March, it seems still unclear when this is going to happen. I would favour a meeting in Zurich where we already spent a calm Sunday afternoon in November. The foundation assembly would (hopefully) also be a welcome opportunity to meet people who couldn't attend last time (Ilario, Gatto Nero, Frédéric, Thierry Pool, Christian Seidl, Irmgard etc.) or who didn't participate on this ML (Voyager, Ilja, Javier).
 
Greets, Patrick 

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Re: foundation assembly?

Ilario Valdelli
Hi Patrick,
if Michael and Nando and all members of this ML agreed, I suggest to
organize a meeting room using the IRC channel. It's a simple solution
and someone can have an answer to his own questions.

Best Regards

Ilario

On 3/21/06, Patrick Kenel <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi all!
>
> I'd like to ask Michael or Nando whether they thought about to procede to
> the foundation of our chapter. The bylaws are getting fixed now, we're
> establishing a mail address, technical support is clear and the Wikipedia
> Day is approaching. Back in January, we considered the foundation somewhen
> in February or March. Now that we're already in the second half of March, it
> seems still unclear when this is going to happen. I would favour a meeting
> in Zurich where we already spent a calm Sunday afternoon in November. The
> foundation assembly would (hopefully) also be a welcome opportunity to meet
> people who couldn't attend last time (Ilario, Gatto Nero, Frédéric, Thierry
> Pool, Christian Seidl, Irmgard etc.) or who didn't participate on this ML
> (Voyager, Ilja, Javier).
>
> Greets, Patrick
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediach-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
>
>
>
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Re: foundation assembly?

Michael Bimmler
In reply to this post by Patrick Kenel
Well, there is a bit of a problem: The ChapCom (or the board, we don't
even know this...) is reviewing our bylaws now. We have no idea how
long this will take (hint delphine/angela/anthere?) and before the
bylaws are approved, we can forget about making a founding assembly. I
mean, we can certainly say, that we make the assembly at April XY but
if the bylaws are not ready yet then, we can again postpone
everything...
(BTW: I would certainly be glad with Zurich...)
Regards
Michael

On 3/21/06, Patrick Kenel <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Hi all!
>
> I'd like to ask Michael or Nando whether they thought about to procede to
> the foundation of our chapter. The bylaws are getting fixed now, we're
> establishing a mail address, technical support is clear and the Wikipedia
> Day is approaching. Back in January, we considered the foundation somewhen
> in February or March. Now that we're already in the second half of March, it
> seems still unclear when this is going to happen. I would favour a meeting
> in Zurich where we already spent a calm Sunday afternoon in November. The
> foundation assembly would (hopefully) also be a welcome opportunity to meet
> people who couldn't attend last time (Ilario, Gatto Nero, Frédéric, Thierry
> Pool, Christian Seidl, Irmgard etc.) or who didn't participate on this ML
> (Voyager, Ilja, Javier).
>
> Greets, Patrick
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediach-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
>
>
>


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Re: foundation assembly?

Michael Bimmler
In reply to this post by Ilario Valdelli
On 3/21/06, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
> if Michael and Nando and all members of this ML agreed, I suggest to
> organize a meeting room using the IRC channel. It's a simple solution
> and someone can have an answer to his own questions.
>
I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you propose that we make the
founding assembly itself on IRC? Because then, to be very frank, we
can forget about this. IANAL but I'm quite sure to have read that
Swiss law requires, that the association is "physically" founded and
that afterwards a "foundation protocol" is signed by president + one
board member (usually secretary/"aktuar"). So it won't work to do this
virtually on IRC.
But if you meant to do the "date-and-lieu-fixing" on IRC we could
certainly do this, however I think, some people here might be not so
experienced with IRC:
> Best Regards
>
Regards
Michael

> Ilario
>
> On 3/21/06, Patrick Kenel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all!
> >
> > I'd like to ask Michael or Nando whether they thought about to procede to
> > the foundation of our chapter. The bylaws are getting fixed now, we're
> > establishing a mail address, technical support is clear and the Wikipedia
> > Day is approaching. Back in January, we considered the foundation somewhen
> > in February or March. Now that we're already in the second half of March, it
> > seems still unclear when this is going to happen. I would favour a meeting
> > in Zurich where we already spent a calm Sunday afternoon in November. The
> > foundation assembly would (hopefully) also be a welcome opportunity to meet
> > people who couldn't attend last time (Ilario, Gatto Nero, Frédéric, Thierry
> > Pool, Christian Seidl, Irmgard etc.) or who didn't participate on this ML
> > (Voyager, Ilja, Javier).
> >
> > Greets, Patrick
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimediach-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediach-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
>


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Michael Bimmler
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Re: foundation assembly?

Frédéric Schütz
Michael Bimmler wrote:

> I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you propose that we make the
> founding assembly itself on IRC? Because then, to be very frank, we
> can forget about this. IANAL but I'm quite sure to have read that
> Swiss law requires, that the association is "physically" founded and
> that afterwards a "foundation protocol" is signed by president + one
> board member (usually secretary/"aktuar").

No, AFAIK. There are very few conditions imposed on associations; most
of the conditions are imposed by the bylaws (with a set of defaults if
needed). The only condition that would be slightly related is that the
bylaws must be on paper, which does not mean anything for the actual
meeting. But in any case, not having a physical meeting for the founding
assembly would not be a good idea (to say the least).

As for the place -- as much as I had no preference for the postal
address, here I would strongly push for a central location, e.g. Bern.

Frédéric

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Re: foundation assembly?

Ilario Valdelli
In reply to this post by Michael Bimmler
The second reply :)

I means that if someone has some question or we (mailing list) wish we
had preliminary meeting to have report status, we can made this
through IRC channel. This is a means used also by other groups like
developers (for board's meeting I know that the physical presence is a
must).

Best Regards

Ilario

On 3/21/06, Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/21/06, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Hi Patrick,
> > if Michael and Nando and all members of this ML agreed, I suggest to
> > organize a meeting room using the IRC channel. It's a simple solution
> > and someone can have an answer to his own questions.
> >
> I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you propose that we make the
> founding assembly itself on IRC? Because then, to be very frank, we
> can forget about this. IANAL but I'm quite sure to have read that
> Swiss law requires, that the association is "physically" founded and
> that afterwards a "foundation protocol" is signed by president + one
> board member (usually secretary/"aktuar"). So it won't work to do this
> virtually on IRC.
> But if you meant to do the "date-and-lieu-fixing" on IRC we could
> certainly do this, however I think, some people here might be not so
> experienced with IRC:
> > Best Regards
> >
> Regards
> Michael
> > Ilario
> >
> > On 3/21/06, Patrick Kenel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi all!
> > >
> > > I'd like to ask Michael or Nando whether they thought about to procede to
> > > the foundation of our chapter. The bylaws are getting fixed now, we're
> > > establishing a mail address, technical support is clear and the Wikipedia
> > > Day is approaching. Back in January, we considered the foundation somewhen
> > > in February or March. Now that we're already in the second half of March, it
> > > seems still unclear when this is going to happen. I would favour a meeting
> > > in Zurich where we already spent a calm Sunday afternoon in November. The
> > > foundation assembly would (hopefully) also be a welcome opportunity to meet
> > > people who couldn't attend last time (Ilario, Gatto Nero, Frédéric, Thierry
> > > Pool, Christian Seidl, Irmgard etc.) or who didn't participate on this ML
> > > (Voyager, Ilja, Javier).
> > >
> > > Greets, Patrick
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimediach-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimediach-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
> >
>
>
> --
> Regards
> Michael Bimmler
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediach-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
>
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Re: foundation assembly?

Michael Bimmler
In reply to this post by Frédéric Schütz
On 3/21/06, Frederic Schutz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Michael Bimmler wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you propose that we make the
> > founding assembly itself on IRC? Because then, to be very frank, we
> > can forget about this. IANAL but I'm quite sure to have read that
> > Swiss law requires, that the association is "physically" founded and
> > that afterwards a "foundation protocol" is signed by president + one
> > board member (usually secretary/"aktuar").
>
> No, AFAIK. There are very few conditions imposed on associations; most
> of the conditions are imposed by the bylaws (with a set of defaults if
> needed). The only condition that would be slightly related is that the
> bylaws must be on paper, which does not mean anything for the actual
> meeting. But in any case, not having a physical meeting for the founding
> assembly would not be a good idea (to say the least).
>
I have googled a bit and found the following sources (not legal
sources, but at least...) however they are all in german:
http://vereinsfuehrung.fvrz.ch/de/3/Gruend_1161.asp
http://www.bl.ch/docs/jpd/handreg/infos/vereine/gruendung_weg.htm
http://www.swissbudo-portal.ch/wDeutsch/recht/vereinsrecht/vereinsgruendung.shtml

The second point is not so clear on protocol but the first and the
second clearly state, that there needs to be a protocol, stating,
"..." was founded IN (-> a physical lieu must be defined) and needs to
be signed by the protocollist.

> As for the place -- as much as I had no preference for the postal
> address, here I would strongly push for a central location, e.g. Bern.
>
Well, I'm okay with that as well. Just ad "central": Wouldn't Lucerne
be more central? (AFAIK nobody on this list lives in one of these two
cities, so question is how to organise it...)
> Frédéric
>
MIchael
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>


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Michael Bimmler
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Re: foundation assembly?

Michael Bimmler
In reply to this post by Ilario Valdelli
On 3/21/06, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> The second reply :)
>
Ah, I see.
> I means that if someone has some question or we (mailing list) wish we
> had preliminary meeting to have report status, we can made this
> through IRC channel. This is a means used also by other groups like
> developers (for board's meeting I know that the physical presence is a
> must).
>
Hm, I don't think, that for BOARD meetings, physical presence is
necessary (afaik WMF board and WmDE Board both have IRC meetings and
"physical" meetings are quite extraordinary), but I think that it is
necessary for FOUNDING ASSEMBLY, see other post
> Best Regards
>
Regards
Michael

> Ilario
>
> On 3/21/06, Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > On 3/21/06, Ilario Valdelli <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Hi Patrick,
> > > if Michael and Nando and all members of this ML agreed, I suggest to
> > > organize a meeting room using the IRC channel. It's a simple solution
> > > and someone can have an answer to his own questions.
> > >
> > I'm not sure what you mean here. Do you propose that we make the
> > founding assembly itself on IRC? Because then, to be very frank, we
> > can forget about this. IANAL but I'm quite sure to have read that
> > Swiss law requires, that the association is "physically" founded and
> > that afterwards a "foundation protocol" is signed by president + one
> > board member (usually secretary/"aktuar"). So it won't work to do this
> > virtually on IRC.
> > But if you meant to do the "date-and-lieu-fixing" on IRC we could
> > certainly do this, however I think, some people here might be not so
> > experienced with IRC:
> > > Best Regards
> > >
> > Regards
> > Michael
> > > Ilario
> > >
> > > On 3/21/06, Patrick Kenel <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi all!
> > > >
> > > > I'd like to ask Michael or Nando whether they thought about to procede to
> > > > the foundation of our chapter. The bylaws are getting fixed now, we're
> > > > establishing a mail address, technical support is clear and the Wikipedia
> > > > Day is approaching. Back in January, we considered the foundation somewhen
> > > > in February or March. Now that we're already in the second half of March, it
> > > > seems still unclear when this is going to happen. I would favour a meeting
> > > > in Zurich where we already spent a calm Sunday afternoon in November. The
> > > > foundation assembly would (hopefully) also be a welcome opportunity to meet
> > > > people who couldn't attend last time (Ilario, Gatto Nero, Frédéric, Thierry
> > > > Pool, Christian Seidl, Irmgard etc.) or who didn't participate on this ML
> > > > (Voyager, Ilja, Javier).
> > > >
> > > > Greets, Patrick
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimediach-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimediach-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards
> > Michael Bimmler
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimediach-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediach-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
>


--
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Michael Bimmler
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Re: foundation assembly?

Frédéric Schütz
In reply to this post by Michael Bimmler
Michael Bimmler wrote:

> The second point is not so clear on protocol but the first and the
> second clearly state, that there needs to be a protocol, stating,
> "..." was founded IN (-> a physical lieu must be defined) and needs to
> be signed by the protocollist.

Fair enough; even if the "physical" meeting is not prescribed by the
law, I doubt that many people would have used this option anyway.

>>As for the place -- as much as I had no preference for the postal
>>address, here I would strongly push for a central location, e.g. Bern.
>>
>
> Well, I'm okay with that as well. Just ad "central": Wouldn't Lucerne
> be more central? (AFAIK nobody on this list lives in one of these two
> cities, so question is how to organise it...)

Geographically, probably (if I remember well, the exact center of
Switzerland is somewhere in Nidwald :-), but I was reasonning in terms
of train connections: there are direct trains to Bern from most big
cities, definitively not to Luzern (those bloody Alps...)

Cheers,

Frédéric
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Re: foundation assembly?

Michael Bimmler
On 3/21/06, Frederic Schutz <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Michael Bimmler wrote:
>
> > The second point is not so clear on protocol but the first and the
> > second clearly state, that there needs to be a protocol, stating,
> > "..." was founded IN (-> a physical lieu must be defined) and needs to
> > be signed by the protocollist.
>
> Fair enough; even if the "physical" meeting is not prescribed by the
> law, I doubt that many people would have used this option anyway.
>
> >>As for the place -- as much as I had no preference for the postal
> >>address, here I would strongly push for a central location, e.g. Bern.
> >>
> >
> > Well, I'm okay with that as well. Just ad "central": Wouldn't Lucerne
> > be more central? (AFAIK nobody on this list lives in one of these two
> > cities, so question is how to organise it...)
>
> Geographically, probably (if I remember well, the exact center of
> Switzerland is somewhere in Nidwald :-), but I was reasonning in terms
> of train connections: there are direct trains to Bern from most big
> cities, definitively not to Luzern (those bloody Alps...)
>
Um, yes, Ilario will have to cross this bloody alps anyway, whether
we'll go to Berne or Luzern... But I don't care about where to go
myself, from ZH you're quite fast everywhere.
> Cheers,
>
Michael
> Frédéric
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimediach-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>


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Re: foundation assembly?

Angela-5
In reply to this post by Michael Bimmler
On 3/22/06, Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Well, there is a bit of a problem: The ChapCom (or the board, we don't
> even know this...) is reviewing our bylaws now. We have no idea how
> long this will take (hint delphine/angela/anthere?)

This isn't currently with the Board, so I'm assuming the chapters
committee, along with legal support, are looking at them. What I'd
expect to happen is for them to present a report and recommendation to
the Foundation Board who would then simply vote whether or not to
approve the chapter.

Angela.

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Re: foundation assembly?

Michael Bimmler
On 3/22/06, Angela <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 3/22/06, Michael Bimmler <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Well, there is a bit of a problem: The ChapCom (or the board, we don't
> > even know this...) is reviewing our bylaws now. We have no idea how
> > long this will take (hint delphine/angela/anthere?)
>
> This isn't currently with the Board, so I'm assuming the chapters
> committee, along with legal support, are looking at them. What I'd
> expect to happen is for them to present a report and recommendation to
> the Foundation Board who would then simply vote whether or not to
> approve the chapter.
>
Okay, thanks for this update!
Regards
Michael
> Angela.
>
> --
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> _______________________________________________
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Re: foundation assembly?

Ilario Valdelli
In reply to this post by Michael Bimmler
The distance isn't a problem.

In the past I was anywhere in Europe in any time for my job (Aachen,
Bruxelles, Madrid, etc.), to go from Lugano to Zürich is like to go
shopping at closest favourite supermarket ;)

But it's logical that if this favourite supermarket is closer than
another I'd like it.

Ilario

> >
> Um, yes, Ilario will have to cross this bloody alps anyway, whether
> we'll go to Berne or Luzern... But I don't care about where to go
> myself, from ZH you're quite fast everywhere.
> > Cheers,
> >
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Re: foundation assembly?

Patrick Kenel

You're right. In such a small country like Switzerland it shouldn't be problematic to gather people from every corner in any place for a meeting. It would be a serious problem in Germany, Italy or France for example. So I would say, Zurich is definitely central enough for everybody.

Patrick


From:  "Ilario Valdelli" <[hidden email]>
Reply-To:  Mailing list for Wikimedia Swizerland <[hidden email]>
To:  "Mailing list for Wikimedia Swizerland" <[hidden email]>
Subject:  Re: [Wikimediach-l] foundation assembly?
Date:  Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:54:13 +0100

>The distance isn't a problem.
>
>In the past I was anywhere in Europe in any time for my job (Aachen,
>Bruxelles, Madrid, etc.), to go from Lugano to Zürich is like to go
>shopping at closest favourite supermarket ;)
>
>But it's logical that if this favourite supermarket is closer than
>another I'd like it.
>
>Ilario
>
> > >
> > Um, yes, Ilario will have to cross this bloody alps anyway, whether
> > we'll go to Berne or Luzern... But I don't care about where to go
> > myself, from ZH you're quite fast everywhere.
> > > Cheers,
> > >
>_______________________________________________
>Wikimediach-l mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l

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Re: foundation assembly?

Manuel Schneider [Everything Open]
Patrick,

could you please, please deactivate that bloody HTML format in your mails?
All mailinglists would be very glad.

Thank you,


Manuel

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