[foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

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[foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

White Cat
I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with these.

Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the Chinese
wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized block
on open proxies.

How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open proxy? How
likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to preform the task.

I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized meta page for
open proxy blocks.

   - White Cat
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Teun Spaans
I think there are many countries in the world where people would edit rather
through open proxies than directly through an easily traceble ip-address.
See hrw.org and amnesty.org

teun spaans

On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with these.
>
> Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the Chinese
> wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized block
> on open proxies.
>
> How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open proxy? How
> likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to preform the
> task.
>
> I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized meta page
> for
> open proxy blocks.
>
>    - White Cat
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Anthony-73
In reply to this post by White Cat
On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with these.
>
> Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the Chinese
> wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized block
> on open proxies.
>
English wikis too, since a lot of people in China can write and read English.

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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

White Cat
In reply to this post by Teun Spaans
Unfortunately so do spambots. Especially on wikis with no admins present
this is a serious problems. Please do not involve controversial sites such
as hrw.org and amnesty.org to this discussion. Thanks.

On 9/8/07, teun spaans <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I think there are many countries in the world where people would edit
> rather
> through open proxies than directly through an easily traceble ip-address.
> See hrw.org and amnesty.org
>
> teun spaans
>
> On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with these.
> >
> > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the Chinese
> > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized
> block
> > on open proxies.
> >
> > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open proxy? How
> > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to preform the
> > task.
> >
> > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized meta page
> > for
> > open proxy blocks.
> >
> >    - White Cat
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

White Cat
In reply to this post by Anthony-73
On English wiki open proxies are blocked frequently. This is because of the
spam bots and it is a serious problem.

On 9/8/07, Anthony <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with these.
> >
> > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the Chinese
> > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized
> block
> > on open proxies.
> >
> English wikis too, since a lot of people in China can write and read
> English.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Anthony-73
On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On English wiki open proxies are blocked frequently. This is because of the
> spam bots and it is a serious problem.
>
Yes, it is, which is a good reason not to extend the problem to other wikis.

> On 9/8/07, Anthony <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with these.
> > >
> > > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the Chinese
> > > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized
> > block
> > > on open proxies.
> > >
> > English wikis too, since a lot of people in China can write and read
> > English.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Azdiyy
if you don't have admins, get "bad" ones. they can do more damage.

On 08/09/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Unfortunately so do spambots. Especially on wikis with no admins present
> this is a serious problems. Please do not involve controversial sites such
> as hrw.org and amnesty.org to this discussion. Thanks.

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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Casey Brown-3
In reply to this post by White Cat
On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with these.
>
> Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the Chinese
> wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized block
> on open proxies.
>
> How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open proxy? How
> likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to preform the task.
>
> I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized meta page for
> open proxy blocks.
>
>    - White Cat
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked, the 'Open
proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of ''policy''.  What
you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have a consensus
on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or what type of
block.

Another solution to the problem you bring up would be cross-wiki
blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would stop any
vandal-script globally for a short amount of time. (vandals rarely use
the same proxy twice).

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent to
this address will probably get lost.

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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

White Cat
Indeed. We are defenseless right now and I dislike it. Dev blocks are not a
solution, devs have far more important things to do and blocking open
proxies would come after "watching empty walls aimlessly" on my to do list
if I were a dev.

   - White Cat

On 9/8/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with these.
> >
> > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the Chinese
> > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized
> block
> > on open proxies.
> >
> > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open proxy? How
> > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to preform the
> task.
> >
> > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized meta page
> for
> > open proxy blocks.
> >
> >    - White Cat
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked, the 'Open
> proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of ''policy''.  What
> you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have a consensus
> on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or what type of
> block.
>
> Another solution to the problem you bring up would be cross-wiki
> blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would stop any
> vandal-script globally for a short amount of time. (vandals rarely use
> the same proxy twice).
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> sent to
> this address will probably get lost.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Casey Brown-3
I said nothing in my post about developers doing the blocking themselves...

On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Indeed. We are defenseless right now and I dislike it. Dev blocks are not
> a
> solution, devs have far more important things to do and blocking open
> proxies would come after "watching empty walls aimlessly" on my to do list
> if I were a dev.
>
>   - White Cat
>
> On 9/8/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with these.
> > >
> > > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the Chinese
> > > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized
> > block
> > > on open proxies.
> > >
> > > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open proxy? How
> > > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to preform the
> > task.
> > >
> > > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized meta
> page
> > for
> > > open proxy blocks.
> > >
> > >    - White Cat
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked, the 'Open
> > proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of ''policy''.  What
> > you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have a consensus
> > on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or what type of
> > block.
> >
> > Another solution to the problem you bring up would be cross-wiki
> > blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would stop any
> > vandal-script globally for a short amount of time. (vandals rarely use
> > the same proxy twice).
> >
> > --
> > Casey Brown
> > Cbrown1023
> >
> > ---
> > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > sent to
> > this address will probably get lost.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
to
this address will probably get lost.
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

White Cat
Yes, I know. Thats the current process. I commented on it before anyone
brought it up. :)

    - White Cat

On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I said nothing in my post about developers doing the blocking
> themselves...
>
> On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Indeed. We are defenseless right now and I dislike it. Dev blocks are
> not
> > a
> > solution, devs have far more important things to do and blocking open
> > proxies would come after "watching empty walls aimlessly" on my to do
> list
> > if I were a dev.
> >
> >   - White Cat
> >
> > On 9/8/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with
> these.
> > > >
> > > > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the
> Chinese
> > > > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more centralized
> > > block
> > > > on open proxies.
> > > >
> > > > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open proxy?
> How
> > > > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to preform
> the
> > > task.
> > > >
> > > > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized meta
> > page
> > > for
> > > > open proxy blocks.
> > > >
> > > >    - White Cat
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > > This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked, the 'Open
> > > proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of ''policy''.  What
> > > you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have a consensus
> > > on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or what type of
> > > block.
> > >
> > > Another solution to the problem you bring up would be cross-wiki
> > > blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would stop any
> > > vandal-script globally for a short amount of time. (vandals rarely use
> > > the same proxy twice).
> > >
> > > --
> > > Casey Brown
> > > Cbrown1023
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > > sent to
> > > this address will probably get lost.
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> sent
> to
> this address will probably get lost.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Casey Brown-3
Ah, I see what you mean now. :-)

On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Yes, I know. Thats the current process. I commented on it before anyone
> brought it up. :)
>
>    - White Cat
>
> On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I said nothing in my post about developers doing the blocking
> > themselves...
> >
> > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Indeed. We are defenseless right now and I dislike it. Dev blocks are
> > not
> > > a
> > > solution, devs have far more important things to do and blocking open
> > > proxies would come after "watching empty walls aimlessly" on my to do
> > list
> > > if I were a dev.
> > >
> > >   - White Cat
> > >
> > > On 9/8/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with
> > these.
> > > > >
> > > > > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the
> > Chinese
> > > > > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more
> centralized
> > > > block
> > > > > on open proxies.
> > > > >
> > > > > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open proxy?
> > How
> > > > > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to preform
> > the
> > > > task.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized
> meta
> > > page
> > > > for
> > > > > open proxy blocks.
> > > > >
> > > > >    - White Cat
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > >
> > > > This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked, the 'Open
> > > > proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of
> ''policy''.  What
> > > > you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have a
> consensus
> > > > on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or what type of
> > > > block.
> > > >
> > > > Another solution to the problem you bring up would be cross-wiki
> > > > blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would stop any
> > > > vandal-script globally for a short amount of time. (vandals rarely
> use
> > > > the same proxy twice).
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Casey Brown
> > > > Cbrown1023
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal
> emails
> > > > sent to
> > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Casey Brown
> > Cbrown1023
> >
> > ---
> > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > sent
> > to
> > this address will probably get lost.
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
to
this address will probably get lost.
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Effe iets anders
I can imagine some better defenses against spambots, such as crosswiki-nuke
and crosswiki-blocks :) (i.e. a steward could block for *all* wikimedia
wiki's at the same time an IP) Requests have been made already, so if
someone with coding abilities could take a look at it, please :) See
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11069 and
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8707 .

Eia

2007/9/9, Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:

>
> Ah, I see what you mean now. :-)
>
> On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Yes, I know. Thats the current process. I commented on it before anyone
> > brought it up. :)
> >
> >    - White Cat
> >
> > On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I said nothing in my post about developers doing the blocking
> > > themselves...
> > >
> > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Indeed. We are defenseless right now and I dislike it. Dev blocks
> are
> > > not
> > > > a
> > > > solution, devs have far more important things to do and blocking
> open
> > > > proxies would come after "watching empty walls aimlessly" on my to
> do
> > > list
> > > > if I were a dev.
> > > >
> > > >   - White Cat
> > > >
> > > > On 9/8/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with
> > > these.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the
> > > Chinese
> > > > > > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more
> > centralized
> > > > > block
> > > > > > on open proxies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open
> proxy?
> > > How
> > > > > > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to
> preform
> > > the
> > > > > task.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized
> > meta
> > > > page
> > > > > for
> > > > > > open proxy blocks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    - White Cat
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > >
> > > > > This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked, the
> 'Open
> > > > > proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of
> > ''policy''.  What
> > > > > you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have a
> > consensus
> > > > > on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or what type
> of
> > > > > block.
> > > > >
> > > > > Another solution to the problem you bring up would be cross-wiki
> > > > > blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would stop any
> > > > > vandal-script globally for a short amount of time. (vandals rarely
> > use
> > > > > the same proxy twice).
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Casey Brown
> > > > > Cbrown1023
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal
> > emails
> > > > > sent to
> > > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Casey Brown
> > > Cbrown1023
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > > sent
> > > to
> > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> sent
> to
> this address will probably get lost.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Casey Brown-3
Yup, that's what I was referring to. ;-)

On 9/9/07, effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I can imagine some better defenses against spambots, such as
> crosswiki-nuke
> and crosswiki-blocks :) (i.e. a steward could block for *all* wikimedia
> wiki's at the same time an IP) Requests have been made already, so if
> someone with coding abilities could take a look at it, please :) See
> http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11069 and
> http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8707 .
>
> Eia
>
> 2007/9/9, Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > Ah, I see what you mean now. :-)
> >
> > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, I know. Thats the current process. I commented on it before
> anyone
> > > brought it up. :)
> > >
> > >    - White Cat
> > >
> > > On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I said nothing in my post about developers doing the blocking
> > > > themselves...
> > > >
> > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed. We are defenseless right now and I dislike it. Dev blocks
> > are
> > > > not
> > > > > a
> > > > > solution, devs have far more important things to do and blocking
> > open
> > > > > proxies would come after "watching empty walls aimlessly" on my to
> > do
> > > > list
> > > > > if I were a dev.
> > > > >
> > > > >   - White Cat
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/8/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing with
> > > > these.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as the
> > > > Chinese
> > > > > > > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more
> > > centralized
> > > > > > block
> > > > > > > on open proxies.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open
> > proxy?
> > > > How
> > > > > > > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to
> > preform
> > > > the
> > > > > > task.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a centralized
> > > meta
> > > > > page
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > open proxy blocks.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >    - White Cat
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked, the
> > 'Open
> > > > > > proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of
> > > ''policy''.  What
> > > > > > you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have a
> > > consensus
> > > > > > on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or what
> type
> > of
> > > > > > block.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Another solution to the problem you bring up would be cross-wiki
> > > > > > blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would stop
> any
> > > > > > vandal-script globally for a short amount of time. (vandals
> rarely
> > > use
> > > > > > the same proxy twice).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Casey Brown
> > > > > > Cbrown1023
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal
> > > emails
> > > > > > sent to
> > > > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Casey Brown
> > > > Cbrown1023
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal
> emails
> > > > sent
> > > > to
> > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Casey Brown
> > Cbrown1023
> >
> > ---
> > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > sent
> > to
> > this address will probably get lost.
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
to
this address will probably get lost.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

White Cat
Effeietsanders what about the local communities? If a local community
disagrees with a global ban how will we handle it?

On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Yup, that's what I was referring to. ;-)
>
> On 9/9/07, effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > I can imagine some better defenses against spambots, such as
> > crosswiki-nuke
> > and crosswiki-blocks :) (i.e. a steward could block for *all* wikimedia
> > wiki's at the same time an IP) Requests have been made already, so if
> > someone with coding abilities could take a look at it, please :) See
> > http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11069 and
> > http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8707 .
> >
> > Eia
> >
> > 2007/9/9, Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > Ah, I see what you mean now. :-)
> > >
> > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I know. Thats the current process. I commented on it before
> > anyone
> > > > brought it up. :)
> > > >
> > > >    - White Cat
> > > >
> > > > On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I said nothing in my post about developers doing the blocking
> > > > > themselves...
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Indeed. We are defenseless right now and I dislike it. Dev
> blocks
> > > are
> > > > > not
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > solution, devs have far more important things to do and blocking
> > > open
> > > > > > proxies would come after "watching empty walls aimlessly" on my
> to
> > > do
> > > > > list
> > > > > > if I were a dev.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >   - White Cat
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9/8/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing
> with
> > > > > these.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as
> the
> > > > > Chinese
> > > > > > > > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more
> > > > centralized
> > > > > > > block
> > > > > > > > on open proxies.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an open
> > > proxy?
> > > > > How
> > > > > > > > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to
> > > preform
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > task.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a
> centralized
> > > > meta
> > > > > > page
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > open proxy blocks.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >    - White Cat
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked, the
> > > 'Open
> > > > > > > proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of
> > > > ''policy''.  What
> > > > > > > you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have a
> > > > consensus
> > > > > > > on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or what
> > type
> > > of
> > > > > > > block.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another solution to the problem you bring up would be
> cross-wiki
> > > > > > > blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would stop
> > any
> > > > > > > vandal-script globally for a short amount of time. (vandals
> > rarely
> > > > use
> > > > > > > the same proxy twice).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Casey Brown
> > > > > > > Cbrown1023
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing
> lists.  Personal
> > > > emails
> > > > > > > sent to
> > > > > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Casey Brown
> > > > > Cbrown1023
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal
> > emails
> > > > > sent
> > > > > to
> > > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Casey Brown
> > > Cbrown1023
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > > sent
> > > to
> > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> sent
> to
> this address will probably get lost.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Casey Brown-3
Two options:
* Add a "shut-off" for that block on the local wiki (like spam
whitelist) --> bad solution, more work for devs, tool probably won't get
implemented that way.
* Trust the stewards to do what they need to do, a block would not be used
for long, and it is only in cases of vandal bots or other extreme cases of
vandalism that stewards would intervene on.  It is no different from the
current situtation (they sysop themselves on that wiki, block the user &
delete his mess), it's just easier on the stewards to do it this way.


On 9/9/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Effeietsanders what about the local communities? If a local community
> disagrees with a global ban how will we handle it?
>
> On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Yup, that's what I was referring to. ;-)
> >
> > On 9/9/07, effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > I can imagine some better defenses against spambots, such as
> > > crosswiki-nuke
> > > and crosswiki-blocks :) (i.e. a steward could block for *all*
> wikimedia
> > > wiki's at the same time an IP) Requests have been made already, so if
> > > someone with coding abilities could take a look at it, please :) See
> > > http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11069 and
> > > http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8707 .
> > >
> > > Eia
> > >
> > > 2007/9/9, Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:
> > > >
> > > > Ah, I see what you mean now. :-)
> > > >
> > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I know. Thats the current process. I commented on it before
> > > anyone
> > > > > brought it up. :)
> > > > >
> > > > >    - White Cat
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I said nothing in my post about developers doing the blocking
> > > > > > themselves...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Indeed. We are defenseless right now and I dislike it. Dev
> > blocks
> > > > are
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > solution, devs have far more important things to do and
> blocking
> > > > open
> > > > > > > proxies would come after "watching empty walls aimlessly" on
> my
> > to
> > > > do
> > > > > > list
> > > > > > > if I were a dev.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >   - White Cat
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 9/8/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I think we really need to have some automation in dealing
> > with
> > > > > > these.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such as
> > the
> > > > > > Chinese
> > > > > > > > > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more
> > > > > centralized
> > > > > > > > block
> > > > > > > > > on open proxies.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an
> open
> > > > proxy?
> > > > > > How
> > > > > > > > > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script to
> > > > preform
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > task.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a
> > centralized
> > > > > meta
> > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > open proxy blocks.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >    - White Cat
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked,
> the
> > > > 'Open
> > > > > > > > proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of
> > > > > ''policy''.  What
> > > > > > > > you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have a
> > > > > consensus
> > > > > > > > on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or what
> > > type
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > block.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Another solution to the problem you bring up would be
> > cross-wiki
> > > > > > > > blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would
> stop
> > > any
> > > > > > > > vandal-script globally for a short amount of time. (vandals
> > > rarely
> > > > > use
> > > > > > > > the same proxy twice).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > Casey Brown
> > > > > > > > Cbrown1023
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing
> > lists.  Personal
> > > > > emails
> > > > > > > > sent to
> > > > > > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Casey Brown
> > > > > > Cbrown1023
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ---
> > > > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal
> > > emails
> > > > > > sent
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Casey Brown
> > > > Cbrown1023
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal
> emails
> > > > sent
> > > > to
> > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Casey Brown
> > Cbrown1023
> >
> > ---
> > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > sent
> > to
> > this address will probably get lost.
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

---
Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails sent
to
this address will probably get lost.
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
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Re: [foundation-l] Open proxies an interwiki matter

Effe iets anders
I think that this tool would be used only if there is a current case of
crosswiki-vandalism, and not because we don't like them. In a perfect world,
a community could opt out of course, but atm this is crisis management tools
:)

BR, Eia

2007/9/9, Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:

>
> Two options:
> * Add a "shut-off" for that block on the local wiki (like spam
> whitelist) --> bad solution, more work for devs, tool probably won't get
> implemented that way.
> * Trust the stewards to do what they need to do, a block would not be used
> for long, and it is only in cases of vandal bots or other extreme cases of
> vandalism that stewards would intervene on.  It is no different from the
> current situtation (they sysop themselves on that wiki, block the user &
> delete his mess), it's just easier on the stewards to do it this way.
>
>
> On 9/9/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Effeietsanders what about the local communities? If a local community
> > disagrees with a global ban how will we handle it?
> >
> > On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yup, that's what I was referring to. ;-)
> > >
> > > On 9/9/07, effe iets anders <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I can imagine some better defenses against spambots, such as
> > > > crosswiki-nuke
> > > > and crosswiki-blocks :) (i.e. a steward could block for *all*
> > wikimedia
> > > > wiki's at the same time an IP) Requests have been made already, so
> if
> > > > someone with coding abilities could take a look at it, please :) See
> > > > http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11069 and
> > > > http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8707 .
> > > >
> > > > Eia
> > > >
> > > > 2007/9/9, Casey Brown <[hidden email]>:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ah, I see what you mean now. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, I know. Thats the current process. I commented on it before
> > > > anyone
> > > > > > brought it up. :)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >    - White Cat
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 9/9/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I said nothing in my post about developers doing the blocking
> > > > > > > themselves...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Indeed. We are defenseless right now and I dislike it. Dev
> > > blocks
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > solution, devs have far more important things to do and
> > blocking
> > > > > open
> > > > > > > > proxies would come after "watching empty walls aimlessly" on
> > my
> > > to
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > list
> > > > > > > > if I were a dev.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >   - White Cat
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On 9/8/07, Casey Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On 9/8/07, White Cat <[hidden email]>
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > I think we really need to have some automation in
> dealing
> > > with
> > > > > > > these.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Granted there are notable exceptions on some wikis such
> as
> > > the
> > > > > > > Chinese
> > > > > > > > > > wikis, but for every other wiki there needs to be a more
> > > > > > centralized
> > > > > > > > > block
> > > > > > > > > > on open proxies.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > How likely is an average person to edit a wiki from an
> > open
> > > > > proxy?
> > > > > > > How
> > > > > > > > > > likely is a spam bot or some destructive vandal script
> to
> > > > > preform
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > task.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I think a solution could be like the spam list - a
> > > centralized
> > > > > > meta
> > > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > open proxy blocks.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >    - White Cat
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This discussion is completely premature.  Last I checked,
> > the
> > > > > 'Open
> > > > > > > > > proxies' page on meta was removed from its state of
> > > > > > ''policy''.  What
> > > > > > > > > you are talking about is surely doable, but we do not have
> a
> > > > > > consensus
> > > > > > > > > on if to block OPs, let alone which types of proxies or
> what
> > > > type
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > block.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Another solution to the problem you bring up would be
> > > cross-wiki
> > > > > > > > > blocking by a certain user group like stewards.  It would
> > stop
> > > > any
> > > > > > > > > vandal-script globally for a short amount of time.
> (vandals
> > > > rarely
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > > > the same proxy twice).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Casey Brown
> > > > > > > > > Cbrown1023
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing
> > > lists.  Personal
> > > > > > emails
> > > > > > > > > sent to
> > > > > > > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Casey Brown
> > > > > > > Cbrown1023
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ---
> > > > > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing
> lists.  Personal
> > > > emails
> > > > > > > sent
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Casey Brown
> > > > > Cbrown1023
> > > > >
> > > > > ---
> > > > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal
> > emails
> > > > > sent
> > > > > to
> > > > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > > [hidden email]
> > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Casey Brown
> > > Cbrown1023
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> > > sent
> > > to
> > > this address will probably get lost.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
>
> ---
> Note:  This e-mail address is used for mailing lists.  Personal emails
> sent
> to
> this address will probably get lost.
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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