i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

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i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

dinar qurbanov
i think i lose my individuality and that i have to make extra key
presses to set extra spaces near brackets and commas. currently tests
/ automatical reviews show in gerrit that my commit has such errors.
what if they are not (would not be? were not? ) blamed on commit
(patch set) uploads, but only automatically prettified/standartised
at/before actual commit/merge?

and, by the way, i think, should not they even be saved as they are
written and should not, instead, diff tools automatically standartise
them before calculating difference?

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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

Tim Landscheidt
dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> i think i lose my individuality and that i have to make extra key
> presses to set extra spaces near brackets and commas. currently tests
> / automatical reviews show in gerrit that my commit has such errors.
> what if they are not (would not be? were not? ) blamed on commit
> (patch set) uploads, but only automatically prettified/standartised
> at/before actual commit/merge?

> and, by the way, i think, should not they even be saved as they are
> written and should not, instead, diff tools automatically standartise
> them before calculating difference?

How would it help the reviewer if they constantly need to
switch their mind from "prettified" code to "whatever" when
they review your code?

If you don't want to press the space bar, you can always in-
tegrate stylize
(http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Ftools%2Fcode-utils.git/master/stylize.php)
in your workflow or amend your editor to insert the spaces
when you type.

Tim


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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

Jon Robson
FYI if you are talking about JavaScript you might want to explore
http://jsbeautifier.org/

All code standards are currently being enforced by jscs.
They recently closed an issue to add auto-formatting
https://github.com/jscs-dev/node-jscs/issues/516
In theory, you could create a script to autoformat your code and write it
in any style that appears comfortable to you. It would be useful for
someone to explore this and comment back on results.

We should be wasting less time on the appearance of code - making sure it
adheres to standards - and instead focusing on the contents of its code.



On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Tim Landscheidt <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > i think i lose my individuality and that i have to make extra key
> > presses to set extra spaces near brackets and commas. currently tests
> > / automatical reviews show in gerrit that my commit has such errors.
> > what if they are not (would not be? were not? ) blamed on commit
> > (patch set) uploads, but only automatically prettified/standartised
> > at/before actual commit/merge?
>
> > and, by the way, i think, should not they even be saved as they are
> > written and should not, instead, diff tools automatically standartise
> > them before calculating difference?
>
> How would it help the reviewer if they constantly need to
> switch their mind from "prettified" code to "whatever" when
> they review your code?
>
> If you don't want to press the space bar, you can always in-
> tegrate stylize
> (
> http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Ftools%2Fcode-utils.git/master/stylize.php
> )
> in your workflow or amend your editor to insert the spaces
> when you type.
>
> Tim
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



--
Jon Robson
* http://jonrobson.me.uk
* https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
* @rakugojon
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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

dinar qurbanov
> How would it help the reviewer if they constantly need to
> switch their mind from "prettified" code to "whatever" when
> they review your code?

it is possible to show prettified code in gerrit web pages, and send
prettified version to people if they get it via git fetch, but save
also their original form .

and, as another alternative, it is possible to save original form in
author's computer, and automatically prettify it in gerrit server just
after he pushes it into gerrit...

> If you don't want to press the space bar, you can always in-
> tegrate stylize
> (
> http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Ftools%2Fcode-utils.git/master/stylize.php
> )
> in your workflow or amend your editor to insert the spaces
> when you type.

then i would need to see that prettified code at my further local
editions and sometimes i would have to manually delete that extra
spaces during editing my code.




2015-10-14 20:23 GMT+03:00 Jon Robson <[hidden email]>:

> FYI if you are talking about JavaScript you might want to explore
> http://jsbeautifier.org/
>
> All code standards are currently being enforced by jscs.
> They recently closed an issue to add auto-formatting
> https://github.com/jscs-dev/node-jscs/issues/516
> In theory, you could create a script to autoformat your code and write it
> in any style that appears comfortable to you. It would be useful for
> someone to explore this and comment back on results.
>
> We should be wasting less time on the appearance of code - making sure it
> adheres to standards - and instead focusing on the contents of its code.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Tim Landscheidt <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> > i think i lose my individuality and that i have to make extra key
>> > presses to set extra spaces near brackets and commas. currently tests
>> > / automatical reviews show in gerrit that my commit has such errors.
>> > what if they are not (would not be? were not? ) blamed on commit
>> > (patch set) uploads, but only automatically prettified/standartised
>> > at/before actual commit/merge?
>>
>> > and, by the way, i think, should not they even be saved as they are
>> > written and should not, instead, diff tools automatically standartise
>> > them before calculating difference?
>>
>> How would it help the reviewer if they constantly need to
>> switch their mind from "prettified" code to "whatever" when
>> they review your code?
>>
>> If you don't want to press the space bar, you can always in-
>> tegrate stylize
>> (
>> http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Ftools%2Fcode-utils.git/master/stylize.php
>> )
>> in your workflow or amend your editor to insert the spaces
>> when you type.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jon Robson
> * http://jonrobson.me.uk
> * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
> * @rakugojon
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

Ryan Schmidt-76
Apologies for the bluntness, but if you cannot conform to the coding standards of a project in terms of minor things such as spacing, how can we know or trust you that you are confirming to standards that are more meaningful, such as those related to security?

Standards allow for a consistent appearance of the codebase both on an aesthetic and functional level. On the aesthetic side of things, we strive for code that is easy for humans to read and understand in order to assist in code reviews. Having a single defined standard to achieve that also adds a level of consistency and professionalism to the codebase. While I personally believe MediaWiki's style is too spacey, I understand the value in having all code conform to the standard and as a result I conform to it when coding for MediaWiki. I encourage you to look for and understand the value of a single standardized style as well as opposed to each developer coding however it suits them.

On the technical side of things, consider merging in changes to someone else's work -- if your style clashes with theirs the result will look horrible and as a result be harder to read and understand. And if someone else comes back and makes an edit in somewhere slightly nearby, you'll have to deal with annoying merge conflicts due to whitespace issues instead of git just intelligently merging it all together automatically.

On Oct 14, 2015, at 10:42 AM, dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> How would it help the reviewer if they constantly need to
>> switch their mind from "prettified" code to "whatever" when
>> they review your code?
>
> it is possible to show prettified code in gerrit web pages, and send
> prettified version to people if they get it via git fetch, but save
> also their original form .
>
> and, as another alternative, it is possible to save original form in
> author's computer, and automatically prettify it in gerrit server just
> after he pushes it into gerrit...
>
>> If you don't want to press the space bar, you can always in-
>> tegrate stylize
>> (
>> http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Ftools%2Fcode-utils.git/master/stylize.php
>> )
>> in your workflow or amend your editor to insert the spaces
>> when you type.
>
> then i would need to see that prettified code at my further local
> editions and sometimes i would have to manually delete that extra
> spaces during editing my code.
>
>
>
>
> 2015-10-14 20:23 GMT+03:00 Jon Robson <[hidden email]>:
>> FYI if you are talking about JavaScript you might want to explore
>> http://jsbeautifier.org/
>>
>> All code standards are currently being enforced by jscs.
>> They recently closed an issue to add auto-formatting
>> https://github.com/jscs-dev/node-jscs/issues/516
>> In theory, you could create a script to autoformat your code and write it
>> in any style that appears comfortable to you. It would be useful for
>> someone to explore this and comment back on results.
>>
>> We should be wasting less time on the appearance of code - making sure it
>> adheres to standards - and instead focusing on the contents of its code.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Tim Landscheidt <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> i think i lose my individuality and that i have to make extra key
>>>> presses to set extra spaces near brackets and commas. currently tests
>>>> / automatical reviews show in gerrit that my commit has such errors.
>>>> what if they are not (would not be? were not? ) blamed on commit
>>>> (patch set) uploads, but only automatically prettified/standartised
>>>> at/before actual commit/merge?
>>>
>>>> and, by the way, i think, should not they even be saved as they are
>>>> written and should not, instead, diff tools automatically standartise
>>>> them before calculating difference?
>>>
>>> How would it help the reviewer if they constantly need to
>>> switch their mind from "prettified" code to "whatever" when
>>> they review your code?
>>>
>>> If you don't want to press the space bar, you can always in-
>>> tegrate stylize
>>> (
>>> http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Ftools%2Fcode-utils.git/master/stylize.php
>>> )
>>> in your workflow or amend your editor to insert the spaces
>>> when you type.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jon Robson
>> * http://jonrobson.me.uk
>> * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
>> * @rakugojon
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

dinar qurbanov
>Apologies for the bluntness, but if you cannot conform to the coding standards of a project in terms of minor things such as spacing, how can we know or trust you that you are confirming to standards that are more meaningful, such as those related to security? ...

we are talking about changing the standarts themselves. so the current
standarts will not be standarts any more after they are changed.
having different styles will be ok then.

>Standards allow for a consistent appearance of the codebase both on an aesthetic and functional level. On the aesthetic side of things, we strive for code that is easy for humans to read and understand in order to assist in code reviews. ...

as i said, if there were special support from gerrit, they would
appear consistent.

on the aesthetic side, just consistency of code through whole of code
is not enough, because different people want different style, everyone
by his/her preference.

> ... consider merging in changes to someone else's work -- if your style clashes with theirs the result will look horrible ...

as i said , there are solutions for that : a) main code may have
consistent code and only new commit/merge preparations have
inconsistent code b) only code in authors/programmers/coders' (local)
computers may keep their own styles, being automatically standartised
when accepted by server c) even main code may keep inconsistent
styles, and git, svn, etc diff/ patch/ merge tools can automatically
standartise code on fly for every operation. too bad or strange codes
like too many chars in line or too many spaces or incorrect
indendation may still be forced to fix by authors themselves.


2015-10-14 21:11 GMT+03:00 Ryan Schmidt <[hidden email]>:

> Apologies for the bluntness, but if you cannot conform to the coding standards of a project in terms of minor things such as spacing, how can we know or trust you that you are confirming to standards that are more meaningful, such as those related to security?
>
> Standards allow for a consistent appearance of the codebase both on an aesthetic and functional level. On the aesthetic side of things, we strive for code that is easy for humans to read and understand in order to assist in code reviews. Having a single defined standard to achieve that also adds a level of consistency and professionalism to the codebase. While I personally believe MediaWiki's style is too spacey, I understand the value in having all code conform to the standard and as a result I conform to it when coding for MediaWiki. I encourage you to look for and understand the value of a single standardized style as well as opposed to each developer coding however it suits them.
>
> On the technical side of things, consider merging in changes to someone else's work -- if your style clashes with theirs the result will look horrible and as a result be harder to read and understand. And if someone else comes back and makes an edit in somewhere slightly nearby, you'll have to deal with annoying merge conflicts due to whitespace issues instead of git just intelligently merging it all together automatically.
>
> On Oct 14, 2015, at 10:42 AM, dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> How would it help the reviewer if they constantly need to
>>> switch their mind from "prettified" code to "whatever" when
>>> they review your code?
>>
>> it is possible to show prettified code in gerrit web pages, and send
>> prettified version to people if they get it via git fetch, but save
>> also their original form .
>>
>> and, as another alternative, it is possible to save original form in
>> author's computer, and automatically prettify it in gerrit server just
>> after he pushes it into gerrit...
>>
>>> If you don't want to press the space bar, you can always in-
>>> tegrate stylize
>>> (
>>> http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Ftools%2Fcode-utils.git/master/stylize.php
>>> )
>>> in your workflow or amend your editor to insert the spaces
>>> when you type.
>>
>> then i would need to see that prettified code at my further local
>> editions and sometimes i would have to manually delete that extra
>> spaces during editing my code.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2015-10-14 20:23 GMT+03:00 Jon Robson <[hidden email]>:
>>> FYI if you are talking about JavaScript you might want to explore
>>> http://jsbeautifier.org/
>>>
>>> All code standards are currently being enforced by jscs.
>>> They recently closed an issue to add auto-formatting
>>> https://github.com/jscs-dev/node-jscs/issues/516
>>> In theory, you could create a script to autoformat your code and write it
>>> in any style that appears comfortable to you. It would be useful for
>>> someone to explore this and comment back on results.
>>>
>>> We should be wasting less time on the appearance of code - making sure it
>>> adheres to standards - and instead focusing on the contents of its code.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Tim Landscheidt <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i think i lose my individuality and that i have to make extra key
>>>>> presses to set extra spaces near brackets and commas. currently tests
>>>>> / automatical reviews show in gerrit that my commit has such errors.
>>>>> what if they are not (would not be? were not? ) blamed on commit
>>>>> (patch set) uploads, but only automatically prettified/standartised
>>>>> at/before actual commit/merge?
>>>>
>>>>> and, by the way, i think, should not they even be saved as they are
>>>>> written and should not, instead, diff tools automatically standartise
>>>>> them before calculating difference?
>>>>
>>>> How would it help the reviewer if they constantly need to
>>>> switch their mind from "prettified" code to "whatever" when
>>>> they review your code?
>>>>
>>>> If you don't want to press the space bar, you can always in-
>>>> tegrate stylize
>>>> (
>>>> http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Ftools%2Fcode-utils.git/master/stylize.php
>>>> )
>>>> in your workflow or amend your editor to insert the spaces
>>>> when you type.
>>>>
>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Jon Robson
>>> * http://jonrobson.me.uk
>>> * https://www.facebook.com/jonrobson
>>> * @rakugojon
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

Gergo Tisza
In reply to this post by dinar qurbanov
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:42 AM, dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> it is possible to show prettified code in gerrit web pages, and send
> prettified version to people if they get it via git fetch, but save
> also their original form .
>

It really isn't.
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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

Max Semenik
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Gergo Tisza <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:42 AM, dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > it is possible to show prettified code in gerrit web pages, and send
> > prettified version to people if they get it via git fetch, but save
> > also their original form .


 Also, we want to ditch Gerrit, not add more cruft to it.


--
Best regards,
Max Semenik ([[User:MaxSem]])
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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

Chad
In reply to this post by dinar qurbanov
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 11:57 AM dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:

> >Apologies for the bluntness, but if you cannot conform to the coding
> standards of a project in terms of minor things such as spacing, how can we
> know or trust you that you are confirming to standards that are more
> meaningful, such as those related to security? ...
>
> we are talking about changing the standarts themselves. so the current
> standarts will not be standarts any more after they are changed.
> having different styles will be ok then.
>
>
There should always be standards. Even if we manage them somewhere
else  so programmers can avoid writing in-style themselves, we still have
to have an actual standards to enforce :)


> > ... consider merging in changes to someone else's work -- if your style
> clashes with theirs the result will look horrible ...
>
> as i said , there are solutions for that : a) main code may have
> consistent code and only new commit/merge preparations have
> inconsistent code b) only code in authors/programmers/coders' (local)
> computers may keep their own styles, being automatically standartised
> when accepted by server


That's actually an option. Also, `arc` allows us to handle this semi-
automagically when we start moving more towards Phabricator for our CR.
It would allow people to focus less on writing pretty code, although it
would let them know prior to pushing that their commit had been rewritten.


> c) even main code may keep inconsistent
> styles, and git, svn, etc diff/ patch/ merge tools can automatically
> standartise code on fly for every operation. too bad or strange codes
> like too many chars in line or too many spaces or incorrect
> indendation may still be forced to fix by authors themselves.
>
>
The server-side code has to be the same. Different whitespace would
result in different diffs and sha1s and completely different underlying
repos in Git. Any changes to coding style have to be done client-side.

If you really want to rewrite MW's coding style to your own, you could
probably get away with a post-checkout hook in your git repo. That would
let you look at MW code with all the ugly spaces removed :)

-Chad
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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

Tim Landscheidt
In reply to this post by dinar qurbanov
dinar qurbanov <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> How would it help the reviewer if they constantly need to
>> switch their mind from "prettified" code to "whatever" when
>> they review your code?

> it is possible to show prettified code in gerrit web pages, and send
> prettified version to people if they get it via git fetch, but save
> also their original form .

> and, as another alternative, it is possible to save original form in
> author's computer, and automatically prettify it in gerrit server just
> after he pushes it into gerrit...

>> If you don't want to press the space bar, you can always in-
>> tegrate stylize
>> (
>> http://git.wikimedia.org/blob/mediawiki%2Ftools%2Fcode-utils.git/master/stylize.php
>> )
>> in your workflow or amend your editor to insert the spaces
>> when you type.

> then i would need to see that prettified code at my further local
> editions and sometimes i would have to manually delete that extra
> spaces during editing my code.

> [...]

You could also amend your editor to do those deletions for
you, but I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding
here: MediaWiki is a collaborative project.  If you think in
categories like "author" and "my" or "your" code, you will
be disappointed.

MediaWiki uses a very spacey coding style, other PHP
projects do not.  Even though the syntax is /very/ similar,
most C, JavaScript, Perl, PHP, etc. projects use different
conventions.  So: When in Rome, do as the Romans do.  Every-
thing else does not work in practice.

Tim


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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

Roan Kattouw-2
In reply to this post by Jon Robson
On Wed, Oct 14, 2015 at 10:23 AM, Jon Robson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> All code standards are currently being enforced by jscs.
> They recently closed an issue to add auto-formatting
> https://github.com/jscs-dev/node-jscs/issues/516


There's also the --fix flag to jscs, which automatically fixes
whitespace-only failures.
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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

Santhosh Thottingal-2
In reply to this post by Jon Robson
On 10/14/2015 10:53 PM, Jon Robson wrote:
> FYI if you are talking about JavaScript you might want to explore
> http://jsbeautifier.org/
Yes. And if you are using an IDE(Example: atom), there are extensions
that will beautify
your code as per a defined jsbeautify configuration on file save or
manual trigger.

Here is a sample jsbeautifier configuration that match with our
JavaScript coding conventions
https://github.com/wikimedia/mediawiki-extensions-ContentTranslation/blob/master/.jsbeautifyrc

--
Santhosh Thottingal
http://thottingal.in


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Re: i would like that i need not set standart spacing in my code

dinar qurbanov
>If you really want to rewrite MW's coding style to your own, you could
>probably get away with a post-checkout hook in your git repo. That would
>let you look at MW code with all the ugly spaces removed :)

i do not think that spaces after commas is not beautiful or not easy
to read, but i used to not make extra key presses, also if code
becomes long, i need to separate line to several lines, and spaces
need to be deleted, and i feel uncomfortable with editors when they
automatically indent or add spaces, some of their additions are ok for
me but i do not like some of them and do not want to understand and
learn that to be ready to them.

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