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long forms too large to save

Jude jonassaint-2
I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
and users were able to save and edit.
I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
(new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.

Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
(over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
separate forms for what they could do with one form.

JUde

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Re: long forms too large to save

Yaron Koren-2
Hi Jude,

I don't think there's any way to split up a form in that way,
unfortunately. You might have to split up the data into separate pages.
Although you could try removing some of the fields as a test, to see how
far you are above the limit - if you're not that far, doing things like
shortening field names, and especially template names, might actually fix
the problem.

-Yaron

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:54 AM, Jude Jonassaint <[hidden email]>wrote:

> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
> and users were able to save and edit.
> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>
> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>
> JUde
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
> _______________________________________________
> Semediawiki-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>



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Re: long forms too large to save

Emilio J. Rodríguez-Posada
In reply to this post by Jude jonassaint-2
170kb is very large. Can you provide a link?

I have a form with 30+ fields and only has 5KB
http://wikipapers.referata.com/wiki/Form:Publication How many fields do you
have?

2012/2/9 Jude Jonassaint <[hidden email]>

> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
> and users were able to save and edit.
> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>
> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>
> JUde
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
> _______________________________________________
> Semediawiki-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>
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Re: long forms too large to save

Jude Jonassaint
Unfortunately I can not provide a link. The template has 2053 lines, and a
lot of long field names. I never thought of how really big it is. It still
works on another server (OSX). I need to switch to a linux platform.
I am trying to upgrade to SMW 1.7 to see if that fixes the problem and I am
getting the error:

PHP Notice:  Use of undefined constant RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN - assumed
'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' in
/usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
line 127
PHP Warning:  require_once(RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN): failed to open stream:
No such file or directory in
/usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
line 127
PHP Fatal error:  require_once(): Failed opening required
'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear')
in /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php
on line 127
jonas002@dx:/usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance$


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:23 PM, emijrp <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 170kb is very large. Can you provide a link?
>
> I have a form with 30+ fields and only has 5KB
> http://wikipapers.referata.com/wiki/Form:Publication How many fields do
> you have?
>
>
> 2012/2/9 Jude Jonassaint <[hidden email]>
>
>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>> and users were able to save and edit.
>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>
>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>
>> JUde
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>
>
>
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Re: long forms too large to save

Neill Mitchell
In reply to this post by Jude jonassaint-2
HI.

If it worked on your old environment it is possible that you just have
different default limits within your new server environment.
As a start, what are your maximum PHP memory and post sizes set to in
php.ini?

Cheers
Neill.

On 09/02/12 10:54, Jude Jonassaint wrote:

> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
> and users were able to save and edit.
> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>
> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>
> JUde
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
> _______________________________________________
> Semediawiki-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>

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Re: long forms too large to save

Jude Jonassaint
I will check that. Jude

On Feb 9, 2012, at 5:44 PM, Neill Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> HI.
>
> If it worked on your old environment it is possible that you just have
> different default limits within your new server environment.
> As a start, what are your maximum PHP memory and post sizes set to in
> php.ini?
>
> Cheers
> Neill.
>
> On 09/02/12 10:54, Jude Jonassaint wrote:
>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>> and users were able to save and edit.
>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>
>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>
>> JUde
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
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> _______________________________________________
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Re: long forms too large to save

Jude Jonassaint
In reply to this post by Yaron Koren-2
I tried to increase the post in php.ini up to 512M.
The "edit" (edit source) works to save data but "edit with form" does not
work. I am not sure if the edit with source worked before I change the
php.ini file.
I think I will try to reduce the size of the form.
Jude

On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jude,
>
> I don't think there's any way to split up a form in that way,
> unfortunately. You might have to split up the data into separate pages.
> Although you could try removing some of the fields as a test, to see how
> far you are above the limit - if you're not that far, doing things like
> shortening field names, and especially template names, might actually fix
> the problem.
>
> -Yaron
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:54 AM, Jude Jonassaint <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>> and users were able to save and edit.
>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>
>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>
>> JUde
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>
>
>
>
> --
> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: long forms too large to save

Neill Mitchell
Hi.

Yes, I've never had to raise the memory_limit beyond 184MB, so if it's
not working with 512, then it's some other limit at work here. It was
worth a shot though ;) I've got post_size set to 8M with no problems.
Might be worth checking that max_execution_time and  max_input_time are
set to at least 60 seconds.

Cheers
Neill.

On 10/02/12 05:26, Jude Jonassaint wrote:

> I tried to increase the post in php.ini up to 512M.
> The "edit" (edit source) works to save data but "edit with form" does not
> work. I am not sure if the edit with source worked before I change the
> php.ini file.
> I think I will try to reduce the size of the form.
> Jude
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Yaron Koren<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> Hi Jude,
>>
>> I don't think there's any way to split up a form in that way,
>> unfortunately. You might have to split up the data into separate pages.
>> Although you could try removing some of the fields as a test, to see how
>> far you are above the limit - if you're not that far, doing things like
>> shortening field names, and especially template names, might actually fix
>> the problem.
>>
>> -Yaron
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:54 AM, Jude Jonassaint<[hidden email]>wrote:
>>
>>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>>> and users were able to save and edit.
>>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>>
>>> JUde
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
> _______________________________________________
> Semediawiki-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>

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Re: long forms too large to save

Neill Mitchell
In reply to this post by Jude Jonassaint
Wow, 2053 lines. I'm surprised the MW parser isn't baulking at that! I
guess that you don't have many parser functions in the template and it's
mainly fields?

The form must be incredibly complex. Don't the users find it hard and
terribly time consuming to fill in?

Cheers
Neill.

On 09/02/12 22:32, Jude Jonassaint wrote:

> Unfortunately I can not provide a link. The template has 2053 lines, and a
> lot of long field names. I never thought of how really big it is. It still
> works on another server (OSX). I need to switch to a linux platform.
> I am trying to upgrade to SMW 1.7 to see if that fixes the problem and I am
> getting the error:
>
> PHP Notice:  Use of undefined constant RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN - assumed
> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' in
> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
> line 127
> PHP Warning:  require_once(RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN): failed to open stream:
> No such file or directory in
> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
> line 127
> PHP Fatal error:  require_once(): Failed opening required
> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear')
> in /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php
> on line 127
> jonas002@dx:/usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance$
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:23 PM, emijrp<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>
>> 170kb is very large. Can you provide a link?
>>
>> I have a form with 30+ fields and only has 5KB
>> http://wikipapers.referata.com/wiki/Form:Publication How many fields do
>> you have?
>>
>>
>> 2012/2/9 Jude Jonassaint<[hidden email]>
>>
>>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>>> and users were able to save and edit.
>>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>>
>>> JUde
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>>
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
> _______________________________________________
> Semediawiki-user mailing list
> [hidden email]
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>

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Re: long forms too large to save

kghbln
Heiya, what about Suhosin? Perhaps it is now part of your installation in contrast to the one before. The
standard settings are pretty dismissive and are always a good pick in case your run into problems with PHP.
Cheers Karsten

Am 10.02.2012 11:11, schrieb Neill Mitchell:

> Wow, 2053 lines. I'm surprised the MW parser isn't baulking at that! I
> guess that you don't have many parser functions in the template and it's
> mainly fields?
>
> The form must be incredibly complex. Don't the users find it hard and
> terribly time consuming to fill in?
>
> Cheers
> Neill.
>
> On 09/02/12 22:32, Jude Jonassaint wrote:
>> Unfortunately I can not provide a link. The template has 2053 lines, and a
>> lot of long field names. I never thought of how really big it is. It still
>> works on another server (OSX). I need to switch to a linux platform.
>> I am trying to upgrade to SMW 1.7 to see if that fixes the problem and I am
>> getting the error:
>>
>> PHP Notice:  Use of undefined constant RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN - assumed
>> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' in
>> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
>> line 127
>> PHP Warning:  require_once(RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN): failed to open stream:
>> No such file or directory in
>> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
>> line 127
>> PHP Fatal error:  require_once(): Failed opening required
>> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear')
>> in /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php
>> on line 127
>> jonas002@dx:/usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance$
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:23 PM, emijrp<[hidden email]>   wrote:
>>
>>> 170kb is very large. Can you provide a link?
>>>
>>> I have a form with 30+ fields and only has 5KB
>>> http://wikipapers.referata.com/wiki/Form:Publication How many fields do
>>> you have?
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/2/9 Jude Jonassaint<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>>>> and users were able to save and edit.
>>>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>>>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>>>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>>>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>>>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>>>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>>>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>>>
>>>> JUde
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Virtualization&   Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization&   Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
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>

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Re: long forms too large to save

Jude jonassaint-2
In reply to this post by Neill Mitchell
Hi Neil:
Actually the users like this form. It uses HeaderTabs. I counted
roughly 1500 fields; the form is 89 kb; the template is 170 kb;
The display is nice and well organized. It is unfortunate that I could
not show case it.

The strangest thing is that this morning, the form seems to get messed
up in the way that it displayed having to find where the save button
was by clicking on a tab. The formatting seemed wrong and everything.
I pressed the 'save' button and, voila, it did save. Unfortunately,
now the form seems to behave properly in the way that it displays
itself but not working to save anything.

Thank you all in the SMW community. If I find a solution I will post it.
Jude



On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Neill Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Wow, 2053 lines. I'm surprised the MW parser isn't baulking at that! I
> guess that you don't have many parser functions in the template and it's
> mainly fields?
>
> The form must be incredibly complex. Don't the users find it hard and
> terribly time consuming to fill in?
>
> Cheers
> Neill.
>
> On 09/02/12 22:32, Jude Jonassaint wrote:
>> Unfortunately I can not provide a link. The template has 2053 lines, and a
>> lot of long field names. I never thought of how really big it is. It still
>> works on another server (OSX). I need to switch to a linux platform.
>> I am trying to upgrade to SMW 1.7 to see if that fixes the problem and I am
>> getting the error:
>>
>> PHP Notice:  Use of undefined constant RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN - assumed
>> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' in
>> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
>> line 127
>> PHP Warning:  require_once(RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN): failed to open stream:
>> No such file or directory in
>> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
>> line 127
>> PHP Fatal error:  require_once(): Failed opening required
>> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear')
>> in /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php
>> on line 127
>> jonas002@dx:/usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance$
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:23 PM, emijrp<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>
>>> 170kb is very large. Can you provide a link?
>>>
>>> I have a form with 30+ fields and only has 5KB
>>> http://wikipapers.referata.com/wiki/Form:Publication How many fields do
>>> you have?
>>>
>>>
>>> 2012/2/9 Jude Jonassaint<[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>>>> and users were able to save and edit.
>>>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>>>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>>>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>>>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>>>
>>>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>>>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>>>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>>>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>>>
>>>> JUde
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>>>
>>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
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Re: long forms too large to save

Stephan Gambke-2
Hi Jude,

if you edit and save the source of one of those articles (i.e. edit
without using Semantic Forms), does that work?

Cheers,
Stephan


On 10 February 2012 16:24, Jude Jonassaint <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Neil:
> Actually the users like this form. It uses HeaderTabs. I counted
> roughly 1500 fields; the form is 89 kb; the template is 170 kb;
> The display is nice and well organized. It is unfortunate that I could
> not show case it.
>
> The strangest thing is that this morning, the form seems to get messed
> up in the way that it displayed having to find where the save button
> was by clicking on a tab. The formatting seemed wrong and everything.
> I pressed the 'save' button and, voila, it did save. Unfortunately,
> now the form seems to behave properly in the way that it displays
> itself but not working to save anything.
>
> Thank you all in the SMW community. If I find a solution I will post it.
> Jude
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Neill Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Wow, 2053 lines. I'm surprised the MW parser isn't baulking at that! I
>> guess that you don't have many parser functions in the template and it's
>> mainly fields?
>>
>> The form must be incredibly complex. Don't the users find it hard and
>> terribly time consuming to fill in?
>>
>> Cheers
>> Neill.
>>
>> On 09/02/12 22:32, Jude Jonassaint wrote:
>>> Unfortunately I can not provide a link. The template has 2053 lines, and a
>>> lot of long field names. I never thought of how really big it is. It still
>>> works on another server (OSX). I need to switch to a linux platform.
>>> I am trying to upgrade to SMW 1.7 to see if that fixes the problem and I am
>>> getting the error:
>>>
>>> PHP Notice:  Use of undefined constant RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN - assumed
>>> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' in
>>> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
>>> line 127
>>> PHP Warning:  require_once(RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN): failed to open stream:
>>> No such file or directory in
>>> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
>>> line 127
>>> PHP Fatal error:  require_once(): Failed opening required
>>> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear')
>>> in /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php
>>> on line 127
>>> jonas002@dx:/usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance$
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:23 PM, emijrp<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> 170kb is very large. Can you provide a link?
>>>>
>>>> I have a form with 30+ fields and only has 5KB
>>>> http://wikipapers.referata.com/wiki/Form:Publication How many fields do
>>>> you have?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2012/2/9 Jude Jonassaint<[hidden email]>
>>>>
>>>>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>>>>> and users were able to save and edit.
>>>>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>>>>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>>>>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>>>>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>>>>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>>>>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>>>>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>>>>
>>>>> JUde
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
> _______________________________________________
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Re: long forms too large to save

Jude jonassaint-2
Hi Stephan:
YES, It certainly does.
Jude

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:31 AM, Stephan Gambke <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jude,
>
> if you edit and save the source of one of those articles (i.e. edit
> without using Semantic Forms), does that work?
>
> Cheers,
> Stephan
>
>
> On 10 February 2012 16:24, Jude Jonassaint <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hi Neil:
>> Actually the users like this form. It uses HeaderTabs. I counted
>> roughly 1500 fields; the form is 89 kb; the template is 170 kb;
>> The display is nice and well organized. It is unfortunate that I could
>> not show case it.
>>
>> The strangest thing is that this morning, the form seems to get messed
>> up in the way that it displayed having to find where the save button
>> was by clicking on a tab. The formatting seemed wrong and everything.
>> I pressed the 'save' button and, voila, it did save. Unfortunately,
>> now the form seems to behave properly in the way that it displays
>> itself but not working to save anything.
>>
>> Thank you all in the SMW community. If I find a solution I will post it.
>> Jude
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 5:11 AM, Neill Mitchell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> Wow, 2053 lines. I'm surprised the MW parser isn't baulking at that! I
>>> guess that you don't have many parser functions in the template and it's
>>> mainly fields?
>>>
>>> The form must be incredibly complex. Don't the users find it hard and
>>> terribly time consuming to fill in?
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>> Neill.
>>>
>>> On 09/02/12 22:32, Jude Jonassaint wrote:
>>>> Unfortunately I can not provide a link. The template has 2053 lines, and a
>>>> lot of long field names. I never thought of how really big it is. It still
>>>> works on another server (OSX). I need to switch to a linux platform.
>>>> I am trying to upgrade to SMW 1.7 to see if that fixes the problem and I am
>>>> getting the error:
>>>>
>>>> PHP Notice:  Use of undefined constant RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN - assumed
>>>> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' in
>>>> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
>>>> line 127
>>>> PHP Warning:  require_once(RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN): failed to open stream:
>>>> No such file or directory in
>>>> /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php on
>>>> line 127
>>>> PHP Fatal error:  require_once(): Failed opening required
>>>> 'RUN_MAINTENANCE_IF_MAIN' (include_path='.:/usr/share/php:/usr/share/pear')
>>>> in /usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance/SMW_setup.php
>>>> on line 127
>>>> jonas002@dx:/usr/share/wiki/extensions/SemanticMediaWiki/maintenance$
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:23 PM, emijrp<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 170kb is very large. Can you provide a link?
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a form with 30+ fields and only has 5KB
>>>>> http://wikipapers.referata.com/wiki/Form:Publication How many fields do
>>>>> you have?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2012/2/9 Jude Jonassaint<[hidden email]>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>>>>>> and users were able to save and edit.
>>>>>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>>>>>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>>>>>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>>>>>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>>>>>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>>>>>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>>>>>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> JUde
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>>>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>>>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>>>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>>>>>> [hidden email]
>>>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Virtualization&  Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
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Re: long forms too large to save

Jude jonassaint-2
In reply to this post by Yaron Koren-2
Yaron:

Splitting the data in separate pages worked. The template is now 107kb
from 170 kb and it seems to work.
I noticed that you had introduced a new feature back a few versions
ago of SemanticForms allowing 'saving and continue.'
Could that feature be used to save the data a little bit at a time?

Thanks.
JUde


On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 4:11 PM, Yaron Koren <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Jude,
>
> I don't think there's any way to split up a form in that way, unfortunately.
> You might have to split up the data into separate pages. Although you could
> try removing some of the fields as a test, to see how far you are above the
> limit - if you're not that far, doing things like shortening field names,
> and especially template names, might actually fix the problem.
>
> -Yaron
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 5:54 AM, Jude Jonassaint <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>>
>> I have a form that is 170 kb. I have been using that form for a while
>> and users were able to save and edit.
>> I changed my environment to a Debian machine and now that form is not
>> saving. When we press the save button the page after trying to
>> save the data goes back to the edit with form mode and whatever data
>> (new data) entered is lost. Data that were already saved remain there.
>>
>> Is there a way to save a large form without having to split the form
>> into smaller chunks. Because the form has been used as is for so long
>> (over one year) it would be a pain to ask the users to edit two
>> separate forms for what they could do with one form.
>>
>> JUde
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Virtualization & Cloud Management Using Capacity Planning
>> Cloud computing makes use of virtualization - but cloud computing
>> also focuses on allowing computing to be delivered as a service.
>> http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfnl/114/51521223/
>> _______________________________________________
>> Semediawiki-user mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-user
>
>
>
>
> --
> WikiWorks · MediaWiki Consulting · http://wikiworks.com

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Re: long forms too large to save

badon
You can split up a form using Special:RunQuery, thought I'm not completely sure if that would solve your problem or not. It might be worth trying if you run out of conventional options. A Special:RunQuery form could edit several portions of the submitted data using a few #autoedit links ("Click here to save this data") all on one page.
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Re: long forms too large to save

Jude Jonassaint
That sounds very interesting. I am not familiar with Special:RunQuery or
#autoedit links, or I used them without knowing that I do.
The form now works with cutting down to size. I used #formlink of the
SemanticForms to create the over burdening parts of the form that I removed.
Then I include a link in the template to look if the form exists or not. If
it exists, it displays a link to the completed form, if not it display a
button to create the form.
There was an extension that I tried before, FloatEdit, that would allow the
user to create and remain on the main page from which the extra forms are
created. It so happens that FloatEdit did not always work with all version
of one of MW, SMW, or SF. I am not sure which. So I had to give that up.

Thanks a lot for your suggestion. I will look into that process. It may
become useful. The first user I asked about splitting the form was OK with
it but not thrilled about it. So an alternate solution may still be
something to pursue.

Jude

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 3:50 AM, badon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> You can split up a form using Special:RunQuery, thought I'm not completely
> sure if that would solve your problem or not. It might be worth trying if
> you run out of conventional options. A Special:RunQuery form could edit
> several portions of the submitted data using a few #autoedit links ("Click
> here to save this data") all on one page.
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://wikimedia.7.n6.nabble.com/long-forms-too-large-to-save-tp4378807p4487028.html
> Sent from the Semantic Mediawiki - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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Re: long forms too large to save

badon
The key feature that makes Special:RunQuery so useful in a wide variety of circumstances is that the pages produced with it are temporary, or "ephemeral" as I like to call them. One of many possible approaches using Special:RunQuery can be very much like what you already did with regular forms.

Your users fill out the form, and the template displays the entered data, and you ask the user to confirm they want to submit the data. Then, you can do the submission with #autoedit links that are styled to say something like "Submit" or "Save page". I suppose you could call that the "preview" strategy of Special:RunQuery. You can do that with all of the data in one link, or just some of the data split up in several links.

One other way of using Special:RunQuery is to producing conditionally branching forms. If a user enters in "Apple" in form #1, they will be presented with another form that is specific to apples, and does not ask for information about oranges.

One more way of using Special:RunQuery is for large quantities of data entry. It is not yet possible to use Special:RunQuery to automatically create pages, but it can create them semi-automatically using #autoedit.

The advantage of using Special:RunQuery in a big data entry project is that it can do anything you want with the submitted data before it is accepted into the wiki. I use it to check for previous entries and block them from being entered again, and also to validate the data in the context of previously entered data. For example, "blue" "apple" can be rejected as invalid, because some queries by Special:RunQuery were able to automatically determine that blue apples don't exist.

So, I guess that's 3 of the many possible novel use cases for Special:RunQuery:

1. Data preview and verification by the user before committing it to be saved in the wiki.
2. Data entry.
3. Data entry and automatic validation and verification.

I'm sure there are many more..You might want to check this:

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34150

And maybe this:

https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34486

I also keep some info on my mediawiki.org user page that might be handy:

http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Badon
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Re: long forms too large to save

Jude Jonassaint
Badon
This some very neat stuff. I have never used this. I will definitely look
into it more.
Do you have simple sample form temple you could share?
JUde


On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 2:31 PM, badon <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The key feature that makes Special:RunQuery so useful in a wide variety of
> circumstances is that the pages produced with it are temporary, or
> "ephemeral" as I like to call them. One of many possible approaches using
> Special:RunQuery can be very much like what you already did with regular
> forms.
>
> Your users fill out the form, and the template displays the entered data,
> and you ask the user to confirm they want to submit the data. Then, you can
> do the submission with #autoedit links that are styled to say something
> like
> "Submit" or "Save page". I suppose you could call that the "preview"
> strategy of Special:RunQuery. You can do that with all of the data in one
> link, or just some of the data split up in several links.
>
> One other way of using Special:RunQuery is to producing conditionally
> branching forms. If a user enters in "Apple" in form #1, they will be
> presented with another form that is specific to apples, and does not ask
> for
> information about oranges.
>
> One more way of using Special:RunQuery is for large quantities of data
> entry. It is not yet possible to use Special:RunQuery to automatically
> create pages, but it can create them semi-automatically using #autoedit.
>
> The advantage of using Special:RunQuery in a big data entry project is that
> it can do anything you want with the submitted data before it is accepted
> into the wiki. I use it to check for previous entries and block them from
> being entered again, and also to validate the data in the context of
> previously entered data. For example, "blue" "apple" can be rejected as
> invalid, because some queries by Special:RunQuery were able to
> automatically
> determine that blue apples don't exist.
>
> So, I guess that's 3 of the many possible novel use cases for
> Special:RunQuery:
>
> 1. Data preview and verification by the user before committing it to be
> saved in the wiki.
> 2. Data entry.
> 3. Data entry and automatic validation and verification.
>
> I'm sure there are many more..You might want to check this:
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34150
>
> And maybe this:
>
> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34486
>
> I also keep some info on my mediawiki.org user page that might be handy:
>
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Badon
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://wikimedia.7.n6.nabble.com/long-forms-too-large-to-save-tp4378807p4488644.html
> Sent from the Semantic Mediawiki - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: long forms too large to save

badon
Login with Demo/test:

http://www.coincompendium.com/w/index.php?title=CCT2&oldid=24342#Convenient_pre-made_specimen_searches

If you click "Maintenance" on the form, you'll see the form and templates being used. That's my first experiment with using Special:RunQuery for ephemeral purposes. I had test-user requests for that feature, and it worked brilliantly! Users can enter in their data, and the template can be set up to query SMW to see if it is valid and not previously entered.

I need to rewrite it now that I know what I'm doing, but it is currently a functional prototype that you can study for your own applications. Let me know if you have any questions. I'm on IRC's #semantic-mediawiki too.
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