pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

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pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Alex Monk
Hi all,

A request has come up (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T126832) to
re-create pt.wikimedia.org on the wikimedia cluster. Unfortunately it was
previously hosted there and so the 'ptwikimedia' database name is already
taken.
Since database renaming does not really appear to be an option, does anyone
have any objections to using 'pt2wikimedia' (or similar, suggestions
welcome) instead for the new wiki? I know this doesn't fit the existing
pattern so I'm unsure about just going ahead without asking for input from
a wider audience.

Alex
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

This, that and the other
Why not just delete the old ptwikimedia site and put the new one in its place,
using the same dbname?

The old wiki is inaccessible, since pt.wikimedia.org redirects offsite, so it's
unclear if the old DB even needs to be preserved. And presumably any
configuration bits that refer to ptwikimedia will still be relevant to the new
site.

If for some reason that is not feasible, I guess pt2wikimedia is acceptable,
though only as a last resort. As I've said before, there really needs to be a
better way to rename wikis without wasting hours of everyone's time...

TTO

--
"Alex Monk"  wrote in message
news:CALMPGzX_E4ML0xD2A_2vTRZ+2a+nWtpC9KkJe58x=[hidden email]...

Hi all,

A request has come up (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T126832) to
re-create pt.wikimedia.org on the wikimedia cluster. Unfortunately it was
previously hosted there and so the 'ptwikimedia' database name is already
taken.
Since database renaming does not really appear to be an option, does anyone
have any objections to using 'pt2wikimedia' (or similar, suggestions
welcome) instead for the new wiki? I know this doesn't fit the existing
pattern so I'm unsure about just going ahead without asking for input from
a wider audience.

Alex
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Waldir Pimenta
In reply to this post by Alex Monk
Assuming there's no easy way to merge the databases, we are fine with
dropping the old db. I believe most content was imported to the current
wiki at the time of the migration, see
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T25537. An xml dump was used, not an SQL
one, so I suppose stuff like logs may not have been preserved, but in any
case it's not critical that we preserve all that historical info. I mean,
it would certainly be nice, but we can live without it.

Or we could use the pt2wikimedia, as that would allow future archeologists
to recover the data from the beginning of the wiki :) Either option is fine.

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 12:13 PM, This, that and the other <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Why not just delete the old ptwikimedia site and put the new one in its
> place, using the same dbname?
>
> The old wiki is inaccessible, since pt.wikimedia.org redirects offsite,
> so it's unclear if the old DB even needs to be preserved. And presumably
> any configuration bits that refer to ptwikimedia will still be relevant to
> the new site.
>
> If for some reason that is not feasible, I guess pt2wikimedia is
> acceptable, though only as a last resort. As I've said before, there really
> needs to be a better way to rename wikis without wasting hours of
> everyone's time...
>
> TTO
>
> --
> "Alex Monk"  wrote in message
> news:CALMPGzX_E4ML0xD2A_2vTRZ+2a+nWtpC9KkJe58x=[hidden email]...
>
>
> Hi all,
>
> A request has come up (https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T126832) to
> re-create pt.wikimedia.org on the wikimedia cluster. Unfortunately it was
> previously hosted there and so the 'ptwikimedia' database name is already
> taken.
> Since database renaming does not really appear to be an option, does anyone
> have any objections to using 'pt2wikimedia' (or similar, suggestions
> welcome) instead for the new wiki? I know this doesn't fit the existing
> pattern so I'm unsure about just going ahead without asking for input from
> a wider audience.
>
> Alex
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Antoine Musso-3
Le 24/02/2016 14:56, Waldir Pimenta a écrit :

> Assuming there's no easy way to merge the databases, we are fine with
> dropping the old db. I believe most content was imported to the current
> wiki at the time of the migration, see
> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T25537. An xml dump was used, not an SQL
> one, so I suppose stuff like logs may not have been preserved, but in any
> case it's not critical that we preserve all that historical info. I mean,
> it would certainly be nice, but we can live without it.
>
> Or we could use the pt2wikimedia, as that would allow future archeologists
> to recover the data from the beginning of the wiki :) Either option is fine.

Hello,

The ptwikimedia database being from 2012, I don't think there is much
point in attempting to upgrade its schema, much less attempting to merge
in the external db in.

Given most of the useful data/history has been exported, I would suggest
to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
ptwikimedia_old or even just archive a dump of it and drop it.

Then create a new ptwikimedia and import the external db there.


I am an idealist, but I am afraid introducing a scheme like
<lang>2<project type> is asking for various exceptions to be added in
various code and will cause a nasty technical debt down the road.

My 0.02 €

--
Antoine "hashar" Musso


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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Jaime Crespo
> I would suggest
> to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
> ptwikimedia_old

If you want this, I hope the users will have the patience to wait for
when the renaming wikis bug will be solved in 2034.

Or, you know, we can create *now* a new wiki with a new name that most
users will not notice (it will not affect the domain name,
pt.wikimedia.org).

On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Antoine Musso <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Le 24/02/2016 14:56, Waldir Pimenta a écrit :
>> Assuming there's no easy way to merge the databases, we are fine with
>> dropping the old db. I believe most content was imported to the current
>> wiki at the time of the migration, see
>> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T25537. An xml dump was used, not an SQL
>> one, so I suppose stuff like logs may not have been preserved, but in any
>> case it's not critical that we preserve all that historical info. I mean,
>> it would certainly be nice, but we can live without it.
>>
>> Or we could use the pt2wikimedia, as that would allow future archeologists
>> to recover the data from the beginning of the wiki :) Either option is fine.
>
> Hello,
>
> The ptwikimedia database being from 2012, I don't think there is much
> point in attempting to upgrade its schema, much less attempting to merge
> in the external db in.
>
> Given most of the useful data/history has been exported, I would suggest
> to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
> ptwikimedia_old or even just archive a dump of it and drop it.
>
> Then create a new ptwikimedia and import the external db there.
>
>
> I am an idealist, but I am afraid introducing a scheme like
> <lang>2<project type> is asking for various exceptions to be added in
> various code and will cause a nasty technical debt down the road.
>
> My 0.02 €
>
> --
> Antoine "hashar" Musso
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l



--
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<http://wikimedia.org>

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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Chad
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:23 AM Jaime Crespo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > I would suggest
> > to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
> > ptwikimedia_old
>
> If you want this, I hope the users will have the patience to wait for
> when the renaming wikis bug will be solved in 2034.
>
> Or, you know, we can create *now* a new wiki with a new name that most
> users will not notice (it will not affect the domain name,
> pt.wikimedia.org).
>
>
But there's not a wiki running there, just an old database. I imagine we
could just rename the database (and associated external storage?).

The move off-cluster predates RESTBase and Elasticsearch so no worries
there. Any old memcached keys have long since expired too.

-Chad
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

John Doe-27
I dont want to come across as a dick, but renaming this wiki shouldn't be
overly difficult. Worst case you dump the database and re-import under a
new name. Since this is a non-active wiki all of the normal overhead isnt
there.



On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 7:23 AM Jaime Crespo <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
> > > I would suggest
> > > to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
> > > ptwikimedia_old
> >
> > If you want this, I hope the users will have the patience to wait for
> > when the renaming wikis bug will be solved in 2034.
> >
> > Or, you know, we can create *now* a new wiki with a new name that most
> > users will not notice (it will not affect the domain name,
> > pt.wikimedia.org).
> >
> >
> But there's not a wiki running there, just an old database. I imagine we
> could just rename the database (and associated external storage?).
>
> The move off-cluster predates RESTBase and Elasticsearch so no worries
> there. Any old memcached keys have long since expired too.
>
> -Chad
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Jeremy Baron
On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 11:09 AM, John <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I dont want to come across as a dick, but renaming this wiki shouldn't be
> overly difficult. Worst case you dump the database and re-import under a
> new name. Since this is a non-active wiki all of the normal overhead isnt
> there.

yes, it should be a bit simpler because it is inactive.

but AIUI, the big hurdle is not in renaming the DB but in renaming the
externalstore. (and idk how that's laid out so I'll leave it to others
to elaborate)

-Jeremy

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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Legoktm
In reply to this post by Antoine Musso-3
Hi,

On 02/24/2016 06:18 AM, Antoine Musso wrote:
> Given most of the useful data/history has been exported, I would suggest
> to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
> ptwikimedia_old or even just archive a dump of it and drop it.
>
> Then create a new ptwikimedia and import the external db there.

I think reusing the "ptwikimedia" db name would be ideal. My only
concern with doing so is that it might be in databases somewhere, but I
checked CentralAuth and there are no ptwikimedia entries, so at least
that will be fine.

-- Legoktm

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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Alchimista
Any update on this?

2016-02-24 18:39 GMT+00:00 Legoktm <[hidden email]>:

> Hi,
>
> On 02/24/2016 06:18 AM, Antoine Musso wrote:
> > Given most of the useful data/history has been exported, I would suggest
> > to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
> > ptwikimedia_old or even just archive a dump of it and drop it.
> >
> > Then create a new ptwikimedia and import the external db there.
>
> I think reusing the "ptwikimedia" db name would be ideal. My only
> concern with doing so is that it might be in databases somewhere, but I
> checked CentralAuth and there are no ptwikimedia entries, so at least
> that will be fine.
>
> -- Legoktm
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>



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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Alex Monk
I'm not sure what you're expecting, Alchimista. I haven't received any
extra emails on the subject beyond those from the Phabricator task and
those on this list.

On 3 March 2016 at 11:34, Alchimista <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Any update on this?
>
> 2016-02-24 18:39 GMT+00:00 Legoktm <[hidden email]>:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 02/24/2016 06:18 AM, Antoine Musso wrote:
> > > Given most of the useful data/history has been exported, I would
> suggest
> > > to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
> > > ptwikimedia_old or even just archive a dump of it and drop it.
> > >
> > > Then create a new ptwikimedia and import the external db there.
> >
> > I think reusing the "ptwikimedia" db name would be ideal. My only
> > concern with doing so is that it might be in databases somewhere, but I
> > checked CentralAuth and there are no ptwikimedia entries, so at least
> > that will be fine.
> >
> > -- Legoktm
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Alchimista
> http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilizador:Alchimista
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Waldir Pimenta
Well, the conversation stalled in a way that made it unclear (to me at
least) who can decide what option to choose (rename the db, if that's at
all viable, or start a new wiki using pt2wikimedia, if that's acceptable,
or something else). Is there anything we from Wikimedia Portugal can do or
say to help move this forward?

On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Monk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm not sure what you're expecting, Alchimista. I haven't received any
> extra emails on the subject beyond those from the Phabricator task and
> those on this list.
>
> On 3 March 2016 at 11:34, Alchimista <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Any update on this?
> >
> > 2016-02-24 18:39 GMT+00:00 Legoktm <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > On 02/24/2016 06:18 AM, Antoine Musso wrote:
> > > > Given most of the useful data/history has been exported, I would
> > suggest
> > > > to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
> > > > ptwikimedia_old or even just archive a dump of it and drop it.
> > > >
> > > > Then create a new ptwikimedia and import the external db there.
> > >
> > > I think reusing the "ptwikimedia" db name would be ideal. My only
> > > concern with doing so is that it might be in databases somewhere, but I
> > > checked CentralAuth and there are no ptwikimedia entries, so at least
> > > that will be fine.
> > >
> > > -- Legoktm
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alchimista
> > http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilizador:Alchimista
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Alex Monk
It's not clear to me either. No, and I don't feel like I should make this
(irreversible) decision. Sorry.

On 3 March 2016 at 20:15, Waldir Pimenta <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well, the conversation stalled in a way that made it unclear (to me at
> least) who can decide what option to choose (rename the db, if that's at
> all viable, or start a new wiki using pt2wikimedia, if that's acceptable,
> or something else). Is there anything we from Wikimedia Portugal can do or
> say to help move this forward?
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2016 at 2:16 PM, Alex Monk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure what you're expecting, Alchimista. I haven't received any
> > extra emails on the subject beyond those from the Phabricator task and
> > those on this list.
> >
> > On 3 March 2016 at 11:34, Alchimista <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > > Any update on this?
> > >
> > > 2016-02-24 18:39 GMT+00:00 Legoktm <[hidden email]>:
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > On 02/24/2016 06:18 AM, Antoine Musso wrote:
> > > > > Given most of the useful data/history has been exported, I would
> > > suggest
> > > > > to rename on WMF cluster the ptwikimedia DB to something like
> > > > > ptwikimedia_old or even just archive a dump of it and drop it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Then create a new ptwikimedia and import the external db there.
> > > >
> > > > I think reusing the "ptwikimedia" db name would be ideal. My only
> > > > concern with doing so is that it might be in databases somewhere,
> but I
> > > > checked CentralAuth and there are no ptwikimedia entries, so at least
> > > > that will be fine.
> > > >
> > > > -- Legoktm
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > > [hidden email]
> > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alchimista
> > > http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilizador:Alchimista
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikitech-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Bartosz Dziewoński
You should just name it pt2wikimedia. We already have databases that
don't match domain names and they're fine.

--
Bartosz Dziewoński

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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Alchimista
  If pt2.wikimedia should be used in last resource, can't the current db
content be exported, and the db cleaned to be used again like sugested
before? Exported content could be imported to a new db, lets say,
pt.wikimedia.org_old. Is this feasible?

  Llegoktm already pointed that there are no entries on CentralAuth, since
the wiki was shut down on 2011 / 2012, is there any other places to check?

2016-03-04 0:38 GMT+00:00 Bartosz Dziewoński <[hidden email]>:

> You should just name it pt2wikimedia. We already have databases that don't
> match domain names and they're fine.
>
> --
> Bartosz Dziewoński
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>



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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Jaime Crespo
On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 9:15 PM, Alchimista <[hidden email]> wrote:
>   Llegoktm already pointed that there are no entries on CentralAuth, since
> the wiki was shut down on 2011 / 2012, is there any other places to check?

Content of every row of every other database that references
ptwikimedia through links, notifications, file usage, content
reference, global permissions or banner, or common content
repositories, including tables that are created or modified by any
mediawiki extension that exists or existed at some point on the
Wikimedia infrastructure and that it wasn't properly cleaned up on
uninstall.

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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Chad
On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 12:55 AM Jaime Crespo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 9:15 PM, Alchimista <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >   Llegoktm already pointed that there are no entries on CentralAuth,
> since
> > the wiki was shut down on 2011 / 2012, is there any other places to
> check?
>
> Content of every row of every other database that references
> ptwikimedia through links, notifications, file usage, content
> reference, global permissions or banner, or common content
> repositories, including tables that are created or modified by any
> mediawiki extension that exists or existed at some point on the
> Wikimedia infrastructure and that it wasn't properly cleaned up on
> uninstall.
>
>
Interwiki link existence isn't checked or tracked. File stuff isn't a
problem (since ptwikimedia wasn't a central repo & existed prior to
GlobalUsage being a thing). Cross-wiki notifications didn't exist either.
Banners? Doesn't make sense. Pre-elasticsearch too so no conflicts.

The *only* thing I can think of that could cause a problem is external
storage.

We should stop being paranoid and just try it :)

-Chad
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Jaime Crespo
On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Interwiki link existence isn't checked or tracked. File stuff isn't a
> problem (since ptwikimedia wasn't a central repo & existed prior to
> GlobalUsage being a thing). Cross-wiki notifications didn't exist either.
> Banners? Doesn't make sense. Pre-elasticsearch too so no conflicts.

^Am I seeing a volunteer to take ownership of this task (and its
potential problems)?

--
Jaime Crespo
<http://wikimedia.org>

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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Chad
On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 6:59 AM Jaime Crespo <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 2:51 PM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Interwiki link existence isn't checked or tracked. File stuff isn't a
> > problem (since ptwikimedia wasn't a central repo & existed prior to
> > GlobalUsage being a thing). Cross-wiki notifications didn't exist either.
> > Banners? Doesn't make sense. Pre-elasticsearch too so no conflicts.
>
> ^Am I seeing a volunteer to take ownership of this task (and its
> potential problems)?
>
>
Well looks like nobody else is going to do it, so sure.

-Chad
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Re: pt.wikimedia.org - database naming

Jaime Crespo
On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Chad <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Well looks like nobody else is going to do it, so sure.
>
> -Chad

It is always nice to see deployment issues being handled by deployment people.

--
Jaime Crespo
<http://wikimedia.org>

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