red cross

[rupert THURNER-2]

hi,

did anybody of you already have contact with the red cross or the icrc? concerning wikipedia, offline, commons, maps, wikinews? would there be any topic interesting for a cooperation?

rupert

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[Stéphane Coillet-Matillon]

Hi Rupert,

One of the archivists at the ICRC is a wikimedian (and a good friend). Let us say there is a certain level of institutional conservatism when it comes to freeing up sometimes highly political archives (or so I was told).

Stephane

2014-07-04 0:26 GMT+02:00 rupert THURNER <[hidden email]>:

hi,

did anybody of you already have contact with the red cross or the icrc? concerning wikipedia, offline, commons, maps, wikinews? would there be any topic interesting for a cooperation?

rupert

_______________________________________________
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[Muriel Staub]

Hi Rupert,

I am sure you already talked about this with Emmanuel, but I can only emphasize that a cooperation with the red cross or the icrc would be of great interest for the offline dissemination of Wikipedia.

It’s our target to find partners that have a certain infrastructure to „distribute" Wikipedia offline (via KIWIX Plug, USB Sticks etc.) and make it available & accessible in countries which suffer censorship or have restricted internet connection. 

Muriel

Am 04.07.2014 um 00:30 schrieb Stéphane Coillet-Matillon <[hidden email]>:

Hi Rupert,

One of the archivists at the ICRC is a wikimedian (and a good friend). Let us say there is a certain level of institutional conservatism when it comes to freeing up sometimes highly political archives (or so I was told).

Stephane

2014-07-04 0:26 GMT+02:00 rupert THURNER <[hidden email]>:

hi,

did anybody of you already have contact with the red cross or the icrc? concerning wikipedia, offline, commons, maps, wikinews? would there be any topic interesting for a cooperation?

rupert

_______________________________________________
http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website
Wikimediach-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l

_______________________________________________
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[Andreas Bürki]

Hi all

And don't forget, it would present an exciting PR opportunity as well,
some kind of "lighthouse" partnership... :-)

Just my 2 cents


Andreas

Am 04.07.2014 00:40, schrieb Muriel Staub:

> Hi Rupert,
>
> I am sure you already talked about this with Emmanuel, but I can only
> emphasize that a cooperation with the red cross or the icrc would be of
> great interest for the offline dissemination of Wikipedia.
> It’s our target to find partners that have a certain infrastructure to
> „distribute" Wikipedia offline (via KIWIX Plug, USB Sticks etc.) and
> make it available & accessible in countries which suffer censorship or
> have restricted internet connection.
>
> Muriel
>
>
>
> Am 04.07.2014 um 00:30 schrieb Stéphane Coillet-Matillon
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
>> Hi Rupert,
>>
>> One of the archivists at the ICRC is a wikimedian (and a good friend).
>> Let us say there is a certain level of institutional conservatism when
>> it comes to freeing up sometimes highly political archives (or so I
>> was told).
>>
>> Stephane
>>
>>
>> 2014-07-04 0:26 GMT+02:00 rupert THURNER <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>
>>     hi,
>>
>>     did anybody of you already have contact with the red cross or the
>>     icrc? concerning wikipedia, offline, commons, maps, wikinews?
>>     would there be any topic interesting for a cooperation?
>>
>>     rupert
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     http://wikimedia.ch <http://wikimedia.ch/> Wikimedia CH website
>>     Wikimediach-l mailing list
>>     https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website
>> Wikimediach-l mailing list
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website
> Wikimediach-l mailing list
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
>

--

Andreas Bürki

[hidden email]
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[Rama Neko]

The Red Cross and ICRC have access to victims because of their credentials of strict neutrality, self-restraint and discretion (for instance, see http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/18/us-usa-guantanamo-idUSBRE95H16X20130618 ). Countries suffering from censorship are probably those also most likely to interfere with the mission of the ICRC, and would naturally regard non-respect of their censorship as a breach of their sovereignty.

For these reasons, distribution of Wikipedia sticks by the ICRC would be regarded as an off-character activity which can be suspicious, if not downright dangerous, and would hamper the mission of the ICRC. The ICRC is intensely conscious and wary of this -- that has been basically the core of its problems since its founding. Distributing Wikipedia offline is a noble endeavour and an all-round good idea, and I salute all those involved ; but in this specific instance I can predict that suggesting something like this to the ICRC will result in

1) automatic failure

2) those making the suggestion being regarded as ill-informed and unconscious of the difficulties that the ICRC meets in the field.

For similar reasons, it would probably be impractical to suggest that ICRC members document their missions for Wikimedia Commons, or that they open and share archives. This is irrespective of the sympathy that they may harbour towards us: ICRC cannot open itself to accusations of subversive activities or espionage -- however ludicrous these accusations may be, because they could be excuses to prevent access to victims.

The most plausible avenue I could think of to partner with ICRC and the Red Cross are:

- embedded photographers (not very likely for the same reasons as above, and Wikipedians typically do not have the personal resources, Wikimedia support and training to go on missions on the field for months)

- targeting old archives and innocuous items, such as those on display at the Red Cross museum in Geneva.

Once again, I am very sympathetic to the idea, which is exactly what we should (and do) strive to accomplish. I just so happens that for very particular reasons, in this instance, this course in impractical and anything we would do in this direction would in my opinion be counter-productive.

  -- Rama

On 4 July 2014 00:40, Muriel Staub <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Rupert,

I am sure you already talked about this with Emmanuel, but I can only emphasize that a cooperation with the red cross or the icrc would be of great interest for the offline dissemination of Wikipedia.

It’s our target to find partners that have a certain infrastructure to „distribute" Wikipedia offline (via KIWIX Plug, USB Sticks etc.) and make it available & accessible in countries which suffer censorship or have restricted internet connection. 

Muriel

Am 04.07.2014 um 00:30 schrieb Stéphane Coillet-Matillon <[hidden email]>:

Hi Rupert,

One of the archivists at the ICRC is a wikimedian (and a good friend). Let us say there is a certain level of institutional conservatism when it comes to freeing up sometimes highly political archives (or so I was told).

Stephane

2014-07-04 0:26 GMT+02:00 rupert THURNER <[hidden email]>:

hi,

did anybody of you already have contact with the red cross or the icrc? concerning wikipedia, offline, commons, maps, wikinews? would there be any topic interesting for a cooperation?

rupert

_______________________________________________
http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website
Wikimediach-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l

_______________________________________________
http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website
Wikimediach-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l

_______________________________________________
http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website
Wikimediach-l mailing list
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l

_______________________________________________
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[Frédéric Schütz]

On 04/07/14 00:26, rupert THURNER wrote:

> did anybody of you already have contact with the red cross or the icrc?
> concerning wikipedia, offline, commons, maps, wikinews? would there be
> any topic interesting for a cooperation?

Yes; one librarian from the ICRC photo department recently visited one
of Wikimedia CH's Wikipermanences (
http://frwp.org/Wikipédia:WikiPermanence/Suisse ).

They are currently at the (very) early stage of developing a policy for
the global diffusion of their images, and are checking all possible
options. They have a large stock of pictures that could potentially be
distributed (meaning: not the ones documenting e.g. recent prisoners of
wars, etc).

Their main worry seems to be "how do we make sure that people do not use
the pictures in a way we're not happy with", so they are not ready (yet)
to go down the free license route... But we had a long discussion about
possible scenarios, describing what other institutions have done, etc.
It seems to be a bit early for a more formal contact, but we're keeping
in touch with them. And the fact that they initiated contact is a good
start.

Frédéric

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[Ilario Valdelli]

This is the same problem I am facing.

Even if there is an enthusiastic employer or responsible and so on in a GLAM or in an administrative department, there are internal oppositions or policies to face.

In small partners the discussion may be good and can be immediate, in bigger ones it may take long time.

The best is to find an internal "investigator" who can help to identify the right approach.

In any kind of projects realized in bigger organizations or companies, the exact world is to find an "internal sponsor".

For instance an IT department can introduce a new software in a company realizing a good success only if the same department can find "internal sponsors" in the companies and the same department has a "good reputation".

This is a normal approach. These two keys are important for any change management applied in a good way.

Naturally as much are bigger the oppositions to the changes, as much important should be the internal sponsors and the reputation.

Reading the previous emails it seems that ICRC has a strong opposition to the changes.

On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Frédéric Schütz <[hidden email]> wrote:

On 04/07/14 00:26, rupert THURNER wrote:

> did anybody of you already have contact with the red cross or the icrc?
> concerning wikipedia, offline, commons, maps, wikinews? would there be
> any topic interesting for a cooperation?

Yes; one librarian from the ICRC photo department recently visited one
of Wikimedia CH's Wikipermanences (
http://frwp.org/Wikipédia:WikiPermanence/Suisse ).

They are currently at the (very) early stage of developing a policy for
the global diffusion of their images, and are checking all possible
options. They have a large stock of pictures that could potentially be
distributed (meaning: not the ones documenting e.g. recent prisoners of
wars, etc).

Their main worry seems to be "how do we make sure that people do not use
the pictures in a way we're not happy with", so they are not ready (yet)
to go down the free license route... But we had a long discussion about
possible scenarios, describing what other institutions have done, etc.
It seems to be a bit early for a more formal contact, but we're keeping
in touch with them. And the fact that they initiated contact is a good
start.

Frédéric

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--

Ilario Valdelli
Wikimedia CH
Verein zur Förderung Freien Wissens
Association pour l’avancement des connaissances libre
Associazione per il sostegno alla conoscenza libera
Switzerland - 8008 Zürich

Wikipedia: Ilario

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Linkedin: Ilario Valdelli

Tel: [phone]
http://www.wikimedia.ch

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[Emmanuel Engelhart-4]

Hi Rupert,

May you please send me the following information, so I have something to
prepare our email:
* Firstname/Lastname of the contact
* Email of the contact
* In a few sentences what you have said/proposed about offline to him
* Which focus should have our email to your opinion.

Regards
Emmanuel

On 04.07.2014 00:26, rupert THURNER wrote:

> hi,
>
> did anybody of you already have contact with the red cross or the icrc?
> concerning wikipedia, offline, commons, maps, wikinews? would there be
> any topic interesting for a cooperation?
>
> rupert
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://wikimedia.ch Wikimedia CH website
> Wikimediach-l mailing list
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediach-l
>

--
Volunteer
Technology, GLAM, Trainings
Zurich
[phone]

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