reject edits that cause two links for the same language

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reject edits that cause two links for the same language

jidanni
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus

Languages

  * 中文
  * Afrikaans
  * አማርኛ
  * العربية
...
  * 粵語
  * Žemaitėška
  * 中文

The first and last are the same.
The first is a link to a template.
Maybe there should be some error detection system put in place to reject
edits that cause two links for the same language.

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Re: reject edits that cause two links for the same language

Daniel Friesen-4
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 17:39:19 -0700, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes_mellitus
>
> Languages
>
>   * 中文
>   * Afrikaans
>   * አማርኛ
>   * العربية
> ...
>   * 粵語
>   * Žemaitėška
>   * 中文
>
> The first and last are the same.
> The first is a link to a template.
> Maybe there should be some error detection system put in place to reject
> edits that cause two links for the same language.

That's a template bug http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:OGTT doesn't  
noinclude it's own zh link.
;) I believe we've told you to report en.wp errors to en.wp instead of  
here before.

WikiText is loose, we don't throw errors for small mistakes, we try to  
work around them. Rejecting edits for something that may not even be their  
fault is a bad user experience too. In this case the user adding a [[zh:]]  
to a page shouldn't be punished because a template author forgot to  
includeonly the language link meant only for the template.

--
~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

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Re: reject edits that cause two links for the same language

jidanni
Well OK, but in no case could
> Languages
> * 中文
> * 中文
be legitimate.

We observer the illegal ones float to the very top of the list to boot.

At least they could be made a different color.

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Re: reject edits that cause two links for the same language

Daniel Friesen-4
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 19:47:48 -0700, <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Well OK, but in no case could
>> Languages
>> * 中文
>> * 中文
> be legitimate.
>
> We observer the illegal ones float to the very top of the list to boot.
>
> At least they could be made a different color.

They don't flot to the top of the list. That one was just the first  
language link defined on the page.
And there's no metadata where we could put making them a different color.  
Color of the ui is skin business not the business of the parser.

Besides, ;) color doesn't show up in your precious text browsers.

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~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

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Re: reject edits that cause two links for the same language

jidanni
Ah, all along the seemingly consistent order of available languages on
the bottom of each page depends on hand sorting them in the source of
each page.

Let's imagine it is the year 2050 and each article has been translated
into each language. A simple misplaced language would e.g., cause ZH
users, who are used to looking for their language at the bottom, to not
find it.

Also some authors might think, "ZH is the worlds most populous language,
it belongs on the top!" So to prevent anarchy consider some standard
sort automatically implemented. OK, enough FUD from me today, bye.

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Re: reject edits that cause two links for the same language

Svip
In reply to this post by jidanni
On 19 March 2012 03:47,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Well OK, but in no case could
>> Languages
>> * 中文
>> * 中文
> be legitimate.

I disagree.  There are plenty of examples where an English article
(for instance) is covered in two or more languages in another
language, where it makes no sense to link to a disambiguous page.

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Re: reject edits that cause two links for the same language

Srikanth Lakshmanan
In reply to this post by jidanni
On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 09:52, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Let's imagine it is the year 2050 and each article has been translated
> into each language. A simple misplaced language would e.g., cause ZH
> users, who are used to looking for their language at the bottom, to not
> find it.
>

Much before that happens, Universal Language Selector[1] should fix that
issue.

[1] http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Universal_Language_Selector

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Srikanth.L
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Re: reject edits that cause two links for the same language

Daniel Friesen-4
In reply to this post by jidanni
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:22:03 -0700, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ah, all along the seemingly consistent order of available languages on
> the bottom of each page depends on hand sorting them in the source of
> each page.
Pretty much... just like categories.

> Let's imagine it is the year 2050 and each article has been translated
> into each language. A simple misplaced language would e.g., cause ZH
> users, who are used to looking for their language at the bottom, to not
> find it.
>
> Also some authors might think, "ZH is the worlds most populous language,
> it belongs on the top!" So to prevent anarchy consider some standard
> sort automatically implemented.
Except language sorting is even more chaotic than sorting category names  
on a multilingual wiki (different languages sort the same set of special  
letters differently).

What do you sort by?
By lang code? But that's a technical bit that has nothing to do with the  
user.
By name in English? But that has nothing to do with the name the user is  
expecting.
By native name? But that's sorting by letters, with multiple scripts,  
different languages sort things differently, and some don't even have  
rules for how to sort some characters. Things still end up in places  
people aren't expecting. And it 'still' isn't a fair way to sort things.
By wiki size, activity, link popularity? Now the language system has to  
start tracking piles of data that isn't even available locally. It has to  
fetch data from remote wikis and some of that data might not even exist.  
It's also an immense amount of code.
By language we expect the user to want? Sure... but that's only part of  
the list. And worse our pages our static. We can't go and start varying by  
Accept-Language causing the cache size Wikipedia takes up to be multiplied  
by over 100.

> OK, enough FUD from me today, bye.
;) Long as you know where you stand.


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~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

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Re: reject edits that cause two links for the same language

jidanni
In reply to this post by Svip
>>>>> "S" == Svip  <[hidden email]> writes:
S> On 19 March 2012 03:47,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Well OK, but in no case could
>>> Languages
>>> * 中文
>>> * 中文
>> be legitimate.

S> I disagree.  There are plenty of examples where an English article
S> (for instance) is covered in two or more languages in another
S> language, where it makes no sense to link to a disambiguous page.

All I know is make sure the links look different then.

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Re: reject edits that cause two links for the same language

Daniel Friesen-4
In reply to this post by Srikanth Lakshmanan
On Sun, 18 Mar 2012 21:39:19 -0700, Srikanth Lakshmanan  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 19, 2012 at 09:52, <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Let's imagine it is the year 2050 and each article has been translated
>> into each language. A simple misplaced language would e.g., cause ZH
>> users, who are used to looking for their language at the bottom, to not
>> find it.
>>
>
> Much before that happens, Universal Language Selector[1] should fix that
> issue.
>
> [1] http://mediawiki.org/wiki/Universal_Language_Selector
>

A relevant article:
http://www.gpaumier.org/blog/628_universal-language-picker/

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~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) [http://daniel.friesen.name]

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