requisites for opening wikipedia in a language not listed

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requisites for opening wikipedia in a language not listed

Miguel Chaves
Hi,
I would like to know which are the pre-requisites for opening a wikipedia in
a language not covered yet.
I'm sure the answer must be in some place. I've been looking for this
information on wikipedia itself and in the previous postings to this lists,
but it's still not clear to me.
Thanks and regards.
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Re: requisites for opening wikipedia in a language not listed

Angela-5
> I would like to know which are the pre-requisites for opening a wikipedia in
> a language not covered yet.

Not pre-requisites exactly, but there is a proposed policy on this at
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposed_policy_for_wikis_in_new_languages

Angela.
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[Foundation-l] Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Walter van Kalken
On nl: wikipedia we have a user (Torero) who under him quoting the
rights of freedom of speech is insulting the islam and everyone who
doesn't think like him on a regular basis.

Today he wrote:

http://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Overleg:DemoCrates.net&diff=3011551&oldid=3011315

Allah Akbar is almost the same as Heil Hitler.

This is not the first time he did this. He has insulted the islam and
muslims on multiple occasions. Also he constantly accuses people of
being leftwing etc.

Unfortunately this is "tolerated" on nl: by the mods and anyone else who
do not dare to pose an opposition against these kind of users. And
everytime he apologises some time later. But what does an apology count
for if he keeps on repeating himself time and time again. And again a
user who happens to be muslim is going on wikibreak because of this.

Freedom of speech ?????

Waerth/Walter
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Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Andreas Vilén
1) Wikipedia has no moderators.

2) Block destructive users.

/Grillo

On 1/31/06, Walter van Kalken <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On nl: wikipedia we have a user (Torero) who under him quoting the
> rights of freedom of speech is insulting the islam and everyone who
> doesn't think like him on a regular basis.
>
> Today he wrote:
>
> http://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Overleg:DemoCrates.net&diff=3011551&oldid=3011315
>
> Allah Akbar is almost the same as Heil Hitler.
>
> This is not the first time he did this. He has insulted the islam and
> muslims on multiple occasions. Also he constantly accuses people of
> being leftwing etc.
>
> Unfortunately this is "tolerated" on nl: by the mods and anyone else who
> do not dare to pose an opposition against these kind of users. And
> everytime he apologises some time later. But what does an apology count
> for if he keeps on repeating himself time and time again. And again a
> user who happens to be muslim is going on wikibreak because of this.
>
> Freedom of speech ?????
>
> Waerth/Walter
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
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Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Gerben van der Stouwe
2006/1/31, Andreas Vilén <[hidden email]>:
> 1) Wikipedia has no moderators.
> 2) Block destructive users.

1) The dutch has. Moderators are the english sysops. I don't like it
either, it's to easily confused with a "real" moderator (like the ones
on a forum).

2) The current policy is quite clear about blocking registered users,
it basicly cannot be done without a community poll. A vote is in
progress to change this.

Gerben van der Stouwe
[[nl:Gebruiker:Gerbennn]]
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Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Craig Franklin-2
In reply to this post by Walter van Kalken
Walter,

This chap sounds like quite the fool.  If he's actually putting this in
articles (I do not read Dutch well, so I don't know exactly what was
written), then it is POV rubbish and should be reverted like any common
vandalism.  Saying "Allah Akhbar is almost the same as Heil Hitler" is quite
clearly POV.

That said, if he's just hitting up talk pages and his own user page with
this sort of nonsense, I'd let it slide.  Yes, it stinks, and yes, I
disagree with it, but it's better to let him make a fool of himself than
start censoring.  It's a slippery slope from "no racist comments" to "don't
question Jimbo Wales IX, Supreme Overlord and God-Emperor of Wikipedia!".

This also works in reverse, so all of the nonsense on the talk page of
[[en:Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons]] about getting rid of images that
are potentially offensive to Muslims is rubbish.  There is no room on
Wikipedia for self-censorship to pander to any minority group, be they
Muslims or racists.

Regards,
- Craig Franklin [[en:Lankiveil]]

-------------------
Craig Franklin
PO Box 764
Ashgrove, Q, 4060
Australia
http://www.halo-17.net - Australia's Favourite Source of Indie Music, Art,
and Culture.


----- Original Message ----- >

> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:59:23 +0700
> From: Walter van Kalken <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Wikipedia-l] Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia
> To: [hidden email], Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List
> <[hidden email]>
> Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> On nl: wikipedia we have a user (Torero) who under him quoting the
> rights of freedom of speech is insulting the islam and everyone who
> doesn't think like him on a regular basis.
>
> Today he wrote:
>
>
http://nl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Overleg:DemoCrates.net&diff=301155
1&oldid=3011315

>
> Allah Akbar is almost the same as Heil Hitler.
>
> This is not the first time he did this. He has insulted the islam and
> muslims on multiple occasions. Also he constantly accuses people of
> being leftwing etc.
>
> Unfortunately this is "tolerated" on nl: by the mods and anyone else who
> do not dare to pose an opposition against these kind of users. And
> everytime he apologises some time later. But what does an apology count
> for if he keeps on repeating himself time and time again. And again a
> user who happens to be muslim is going on wikibreak because of this.
>
> Freedom of speech ?????
>
> Waerth/Walter
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>
>
> End of Wikipedia-l Digest, Vol 30, Issue 40
> *******************************************
>
>

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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Alphax (Wikipedia email)
Craig Franklin wrote:
> Walter,
>
> This chap sounds like quite the fool.  If he's actually putting this in
> articles (I do not read Dutch well, so I don't know exactly what was
> written), then it is POV rubbish and should be reverted like any common
> vandalism.  Saying "Allah Akhbar is almost the same as Heil Hitler" is quite
> clearly POV.
>

Well, they are both the war cries of fanatical extremists, so it's not a
minority POV, and is therefore mentionable as part of NPOV.

> That said, if he's just hitting up talk pages and his own user page with
> this sort of nonsense, I'd let it slide.  Yes, it stinks, and yes, I
> disagree with it, but it's better to let him make a fool of himself than
> start censoring.  It's a slippery slope from "no racist comments" to "don't
> question Jimbo Wales IX, Supreme Overlord and God-Emperor of Wikipedia!".
>

Oh how I wish we did the latter more often... maybe a little more sanity
would prevail?

> This also works in reverse, so all of the nonsense on the talk page of
> [[en:Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons]] about getting rid of images that
> are potentially offensive to Muslims is rubbish.  There is no room on
> Wikipedia for self-censorship to pander to any minority group, be they
> Muslims or racists.
>

Actually when I first saw the cartoons I thought we would have a repeat
of the autofellatio debate where the end result was that regardless of
decency, offense or censorship, the images were copyvio :)

--
Alphax - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax
Contributor to Wikipedia, the Free Encyclopedia
"We make the internet not suck" - Jimbo Wales
Public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Alphax/OpenPGP

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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Paweł Dembowski
Alphax (Wikipedia email) napisa³u:

> Actually when I first saw the cartoons I thought we would have a repeat
> of the autofellatio debate where the end result was that regardless of
> decency, offense or censorship, the images were copyvio :)

Wasn't the original autofellatio one also a copyvio?

--
Ausir
Wikipedia, wolna encyklopedia
http://pl.wikipedia.org

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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Walter van Kalken
Ermmm probably you didn't read about already one good user ..... who is
a muslim ..... has left nl: over these remarks ..... and you say let
this user stay on ?? Is there something wrong there? We will loose more
users than this one who insults all who bring us. Are you on nl:
wikipedia by any chance :|

Waerth/Walter
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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Gerard Meijssen-3
In reply to this post by Craig Franklin-2
Craig Franklin wrote:
> Walter,
>
> This chap sounds like quite the fool.  If he's actually putting this in
> articles (I do not read Dutch well, so I don't know exactly what was
> written), then it is POV rubbish and should be reverted like any common
> vandalism.  Saying "Allah Akhbar is almost the same as Heil Hitler" is quite
> clearly POV.
>  
Hoi,
It depends on how you want to read it. When you read it as "Allah
Akhbar"  and "Heil Hitler"  are used in a similar way, as a greeting
that also expresses something that is believed in, it should be possible
to make this remark. It is however to be seen in the light of the
context of what is to be achieved. When this remark is made in order to
denigrate Muslims or Islam or push anti Islam sentiments it is wrong and
it deserves action including a ban.

The problem in the Dutch Wikipedia is an increasing amount of POV
pushing, this POV is obviously seen as necessary by the pusher. However
"what is good for the goose is good for the gander", both sides of the
spectrum are increasingly intolerant, vocal and drastic in their
actions. When Wikipedia is to be a civil place, it is necessary to act
against this pushiness never mind what side of an argument is being
pushed. It is necessary to be even handed never mind who transgresses.

Thanks,
   GerardM
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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Sander Spek
In reply to this post by Walter van Kalken
* Walter van Kalken:
> Ermmm probably you didn't read about already one good user
> ..... who is a muslim ..... has left nl: over these remarks
> ..... and you say let this user stay on ?? Is there something
> wrong there? We will loose more users than this one who insults
> all who bring us. Are you on nl: wikipedia by any chance :|

It's also the constant pressure of people wanting to ban users
for their opinions that has made at least one user leave, so
please do not see it al so black-white.

When I read the discussions about WP-NL on this list, I see a lot
of biased information, or stories that give only a part of the
truth. (Not that I would be able to do it better, though.)
Therefore I ask outsiders who want to have an opinion, to make a
small study of the history over there, instead of shouting things
based on messages on this list.

It's a complicated world out there...


   Sander Spek
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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Mark
In reply to this post by Walter van Kalken
Walter van Kalken wrote:

> Ermmm probably you didn't read about already one good user ..... who
> is a muslim ..... has left nl: over these remarks ..... and you say
> let this user stay on ?? Is there something wrong there? We will loose
> more users than this one who insults all who bring us. Are you on nl:
> wikipedia by any chance :|

This is unfortunate, but in combatting a problem we have to make sure we
don't introduce a worse one.

Consider a vaguely similar situation on en: at least one American user I
know of has left (at least temporarily) after some non-Americans made
particularly vociferous anti-American comments, along the lines of
"Americans are bigoted idiots who voted in a fascist president and don't
know anything about world affairs" (paraphrase).  Should we ban people
for making such comments?  I think they should be discouraged, and
people should be banned if they're being disruptive (e.g. going around
specifically to make offensive comments), but being too ban-happy is
problematic also.

-Mark

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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Andre Engels
In reply to this post by Craig Franklin-2
2006/2/1, Craig Franklin <[hidden email]>:

> This chap sounds like quite the fool.  If he's actually putting this in
> articles (I do not read Dutch well, so I don't know exactly what was
> written), then it is POV rubbish and should be reverted like any common
> vandalism.  Saying "Allah Akhbar is almost the same as Heil Hitler" is quite
> clearly POV.

No, it has been put on a talkpage.

--
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ICQ: 6260644  --  Skype: a_engels

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RE: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

James R. Johnson
In reply to this post by Mark
May I ask... are anti-American or anti-Christian statements going without
notice/care/concern?  Some articles on the German wiki could be biased,
then...

James

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Delirium
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 2:01 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl:
wikipedia

Walter van Kalken wrote:

> Ermmm probably you didn't read about already one good user ..... who
> is a muslim ..... has left nl: over these remarks ..... and you say
> let this user stay on ?? Is there something wrong there? We will loose
> more users than this one who insults all who bring us. Are you on nl:
> wikipedia by any chance :|

This is unfortunate, but in combatting a problem we have to make sure we
don't introduce a worse one.

Consider a vaguely similar situation on en: at least one American user I
know of has left (at least temporarily) after some non-Americans made
particularly vociferous anti-American comments, along the lines of
"Americans are bigoted idiots who voted in a fascist president and don't
know anything about world affairs" (paraphrase).  Should we ban people
for making such comments?  I think they should be discouraged, and
people should be banned if they're being disruptive (e.g. going around
specifically to make offensive comments), but being too ban-happy is
problematic also.

-Mark

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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Milos Rancic
We had this question (comics with Muhamed) on Serbian Wikipedia. Up to
present, all people who wanted to talk about it concluded that we
should not care about anything which can be treated as offensive
inside of religious groups (nor Islam, nor Christianity, nor...).

On 2/2/06, James R. Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> May I ask... are anti-American or anti-Christian statements going without
> notice/care/concern?  Some articles on the German wiki could be biased,
> then...
>
> James
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Delirium
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 2:01 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Wikipedia-l] Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl:
> wikipedia
>
> Walter van Kalken wrote:
>
> > Ermmm probably you didn't read about already one good user ..... who
> > is a muslim ..... has left nl: over these remarks ..... and you say
> > let this user stay on ?? Is there something wrong there? We will loose
> > more users than this one who insults all who bring us. Are you on nl:
> > wikipedia by any chance :|
>
> This is unfortunate, but in combatting a problem we have to make sure we
> don't introduce a worse one.
>
> Consider a vaguely similar situation on en: at least one American user I
> know of has left (at least temporarily) after some non-Americans made
> particularly vociferous anti-American comments, along the lines of
> "Americans are bigoted idiots who voted in a fascist president and don't
> know anything about world affairs" (paraphrase).  Should we ban people
> for making such comments?  I think they should be discouraged, and
> people should be banned if they're being disruptive (e.g. going around
> specifically to make offensive comments), but being too ban-happy is
> problematic also.
>
> -Mark
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

Milos Rancic
On 2/2/06, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> We had this question (comics with Muhamed) on Serbian Wikipedia. Up to
> present, all people who wanted to talk about it concluded that we
> should not care about anything which can be treated as offensive
> inside of religious groups (nor Islam, nor Christianity, nor...).

Of course, in the sense of comics :)

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Re: Re: Insulting the islam is allowed on nl: wikipedia

M. Williamson
In reply to this post by Walter van Kalken
So, if 10 good users decided to leave en.wp because of some user
(say... Bonaparte), does it mean he should be automatically blocked?

Although they may have left due to his actions, it's not directly his
control. It's not as if he pushed a button that said "Make users X, X,
X, and X leave out of frustration and anger".

Mark

On 01/02/06, Walter van Kalken <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ermmm probably you didn't read about already one good user ..... who is
> a muslim ..... has left nl: over these remarks ..... and you say let
> this user stay on ?? Is there something wrong there? We will loose more
> users than this one who insults all who bring us. Are you on nl:
> wikipedia by any chance :|
>
> Waerth/Walter
> _______________________________________________
> Wikipedia-l mailing list
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> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikipedia-l
>


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