roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

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roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Alec Conroy-2
Prompted by discussions in another thread, I ask a related question--

;1--  A roadmap towards affiliation

How should a currently-unaffiliated project go about becoming 'part
of' Wikimedia?

One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
Movement".   (alternate text welcome )

Later, a self-identified affiliate could be formally designated as
"part of the Wikimedia Movement" by the global community or the
foundation or both.

Such recognition would have lots of benefits for the new projects that
share our values-- other WM projects would know to visibly link to
them whenever they have relevant content (as we currently do across
WMF projects).  We could permit access to the unified login, we could
allow template-sharing or image-sharing.  We could set up
interwiki-linking, and other interoperability functions.

Such recognition would have even bigger benefits for us.   We could
get an affiliation with an established, successful project that shares
our values.  The kinds of project that we would build ourselves if
someone else hadn't already built it.   Their userbases and readership
would see get to Wikimedia as something larger than just WP, and it
would help cement public understanding that Wikimedia is a Movement,
very big, very diverse, and very special.

; 2--   We need a name for self-identified project affiliation.

External projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative,
that they are "part of" something.    That something should be a
something that is connected to us.

But self-identified affiliation has no gatekeeper, so whatever it is
new projects can be "part of", there could be lots that we don't
approve of.

I'm the founder of a project and I want signal my ideological
affiliation to WM.   I think my own project's values match the
Wikimedia's values, in my opinion anyway.

Recognizing that I may or may not be right-- what should I say I am a
"part of"?

We could just tell projects in this situation to say they are "Part of
the Wikimedia Movement", but perhaps that name is one we want to
reserve just for officially recognized projects.   If so, what name
should such projects use instead?

Note that they need to be saying something different than just "I like
Wikipedia, here's a link".  They need to be _identifying_ their own
efforts as _under the umbrella_ of what we do.   They need to be
"investing" in us and our mission, saying "This project is our attempt
to help share the world's information".

Right now, I think we can craft any statement, logo, or button we want
and like-minded projects would use it if prompted.   We just have to
be thoughtful about what we want those things to look like.   We will
no longer have total control over whichever name or logos we recommend
projects use for self-identified affiliation.

So that's my question -- what should third-party wikis say they are
"part of", if they want to express a connection to us?

Alec

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

metasj
We're discussing setting up an "Affiliation committee" to oversee
simple, low-overhead wikimedia affiliates and associations.  These
could be organizations 'under the umbrella' of free knowledge --
requiring just basic review of their work and standards to confirm
they are in line with our basic principles.  [1]

Wikimedia Associations could be individual wikiprojects, clubs, or
meetups run by one or more people that want to establish a lasting
identity as part of the movement.

Third-party wikis and larger groups could be Wikimedia Affiliates.

Both could use web-badges and icons to identify them with the movement
(derived from the WM community logo?).

SJ

[1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project/New_group_models

On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Alec Conroy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Prompted by discussions in another thread, I ask a related question--
>
> ;1--  A roadmap towards affiliation
>
> How should a currently-unaffiliated project go about becoming 'part
> of' Wikimedia?
>
> One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
> website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
> Movement".   (alternate text welcome )
>
> Later, a self-identified affiliate could be formally designated as
> "part of the Wikimedia Movement" by the global community or the
> foundation or both.
>
> Such recognition would have lots of benefits for the new projects that
> share our values-- other WM projects would know to visibly link to
> them whenever they have relevant content (as we currently do across
> WMF projects).  We could permit access to the unified login, we could
> allow template-sharing or image-sharing.  We could set up
> interwiki-linking, and other interoperability functions.
>
> Such recognition would have even bigger benefits for us.   We could
> get an affiliation with an established, successful project that shares
> our values.  The kinds of project that we would build ourselves if
> someone else hadn't already built it.   Their userbases and readership
> would see get to Wikimedia as something larger than just WP, and it
> would help cement public understanding that Wikimedia is a Movement,
> very big, very diverse, and very special.
>
> ; 2--   We need a name for self-identified project affiliation.
>
> External projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative,
> that they are "part of" something.    That something should be a
> something that is connected to us.
>
> But self-identified affiliation has no gatekeeper, so whatever it is
> new projects can be "part of", there could be lots that we don't
> approve of.
>
> I'm the founder of a project and I want signal my ideological
> affiliation to WM.   I think my own project's values match the
> Wikimedia's values, in my opinion anyway.
>
> Recognizing that I may or may not be right-- what should I say I am a
> "part of"?
>
> We could just tell projects in this situation to say they are "Part of
> the Wikimedia Movement", but perhaps that name is one we want to
> reserve just for officially recognized projects.   If so, what name
> should such projects use instead?
>
> Note that they need to be saying something different than just "I like
> Wikipedia, here's a link".  They need to be _identifying_ their own
> efforts as _under the umbrella_ of what we do.   They need to be
> "investing" in us and our mission, saying "This project is our attempt
> to help share the world's information".
>
> Right now, I think we can craft any statement, logo, or button we want
> and like-minded projects would use it if prompted.   We just have to
> be thoughtful about what we want those things to look like.   We will
> no longer have total control over whichever name or logos we recommend
> projects use for self-identified affiliation.
>
> So that's my question -- what should third-party wikis say they are
> "part of", if they want to express a connection to us?
>
> Alec
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



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Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Lodewijk
I am not sure if this is about the same thing. I read Alec's questions as
being about content projects that want to affiliate themselves with
Wikimedia - want to become the new Wikimedia project. I know that in the
past this question has lived for example with OmegaWiki/WiktionaryZ . SJ,
would you consider this to be similar to Wikimedian groups who want to have
a slightly more formal relationship with the Movement?

Lodewijk

2011/7/13 Samuel Klein <[hidden email]>

> We're discussing setting up an "Affiliation committee" to oversee
> simple, low-overhead wikimedia affiliates and associations.  These
> could be organizations 'under the umbrella' of free knowledge --
> requiring just basic review of their work and standards to confirm
> they are in line with our basic principles.  [1]
>
> Wikimedia Associations could be individual wikiprojects, clubs, or
> meetups run by one or more people that want to establish a lasting
> identity as part of the movement.
>
> Third-party wikis and larger groups could be Wikimedia Affiliates.
>
> Both could use web-badges and icons to identify them with the movement
> (derived from the WM community logo?).
>
> SJ
>
> [1]
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project/New_group_models
>
> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Alec Conroy <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Prompted by discussions in another thread, I ask a related question--
> >
> > ;1--  A roadmap towards affiliation
> >
> > How should a currently-unaffiliated project go about becoming 'part
> > of' Wikimedia?
> >
> > One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
> > website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
> > Movement".   (alternate text welcome )
> >
> > Later, a self-identified affiliate could be formally designated as
> > "part of the Wikimedia Movement" by the global community or the
> > foundation or both.
> >
> > Such recognition would have lots of benefits for the new projects that
> > share our values-- other WM projects would know to visibly link to
> > them whenever they have relevant content (as we currently do across
> > WMF projects).  We could permit access to the unified login, we could
> > allow template-sharing or image-sharing.  We could set up
> > interwiki-linking, and other interoperability functions.
> >
> > Such recognition would have even bigger benefits for us.   We could
> > get an affiliation with an established, successful project that shares
> > our values.  The kinds of project that we would build ourselves if
> > someone else hadn't already built it.   Their userbases and readership
> > would see get to Wikimedia as something larger than just WP, and it
> > would help cement public understanding that Wikimedia is a Movement,
> > very big, very diverse, and very special.
> >
> > ; 2--   We need a name for self-identified project affiliation.
> >
> > External projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative,
> > that they are "part of" something.    That something should be a
> > something that is connected to us.
> >
> > But self-identified affiliation has no gatekeeper, so whatever it is
> > new projects can be "part of", there could be lots that we don't
> > approve of.
> >
> > I'm the founder of a project and I want signal my ideological
> > affiliation to WM.   I think my own project's values match the
> > Wikimedia's values, in my opinion anyway.
> >
> > Recognizing that I may or may not be right-- what should I say I am a
> > "part of"?
> >
> > We could just tell projects in this situation to say they are "Part of
> > the Wikimedia Movement", but perhaps that name is one we want to
> > reserve just for officially recognized projects.   If so, what name
> > should such projects use instead?
> >
> > Note that they need to be saying something different than just "I like
> > Wikipedia, here's a link".  They need to be _identifying_ their own
> > efforts as _under the umbrella_ of what we do.   They need to be
> > "investing" in us and our mission, saying "This project is our attempt
> > to help share the world's information".
> >
> > Right now, I think we can craft any statement, logo, or button we want
> > and like-minded projects would use it if prompted.   We just have to
> > be thoughtful about what we want those things to look like.   We will
> > no longer have total control over whichever name or logos we recommend
> > projects use for self-identified affiliation.
> >
> > So that's my question -- what should third-party wikis say they are
> > "part of", if they want to express a connection to us?
> >
> > Alec
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529
> 4266
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Ziko van Dijk
Hello,

If I understand Alec right he wants a model wherein a project like
WikiSomething can declare itself affiliated with Wikimedia:
"We need a name for self-identified project affiliation. External
projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative, that they
are "part of" something."
Of course, WikiSomething can say on its website "We like Wikimedia and
share its goals", but the wording must not give the impression that
there is an official link between both.
The problem is that we don't want that anybody can decorate himself
with the Wikimedia trademark and maybe abuse it. There must be an
official recognition anyway from Wikimedia Foundation.

Kind regards
Ziko van Dijk





2011/7/13 Lodewijk <[hidden email]>:

> I am not sure if this is about the same thing. I read Alec's questions as
> being about content projects that want to affiliate themselves with
> Wikimedia - want to become the new Wikimedia project. I know that in the
> past this question has lived for example with OmegaWiki/WiktionaryZ . SJ,
> would you consider this to be similar to Wikimedian groups who want to have
> a slightly more formal relationship with the Movement?
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2011/7/13 Samuel Klein <[hidden email]>
>
>> We're discussing setting up an "Affiliation committee" to oversee
>> simple, low-overhead wikimedia affiliates and associations.  These
>> could be organizations 'under the umbrella' of free knowledge --
>> requiring just basic review of their work and standards to confirm
>> they are in line with our basic principles.  [1]
>>
>> Wikimedia Associations could be individual wikiprojects, clubs, or
>> meetups run by one or more people that want to establish a lasting
>> identity as part of the movement.
>>
>> Third-party wikis and larger groups could be Wikimedia Affiliates.
>>
>> Both could use web-badges and icons to identify them with the movement
>> (derived from the WM community logo?).
>>
>> SJ
>>
>> [1]
>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project/New_group_models
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Alec Conroy <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>> > Prompted by discussions in another thread, I ask a related question--
>> >
>> > ;1--  A roadmap towards affiliation
>> >
>> > How should a currently-unaffiliated project go about becoming 'part
>> > of' Wikimedia?
>> >
>> > One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
>> > website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
>> > Movement".   (alternate text welcome )
>> >
>> > Later, a self-identified affiliate could be formally designated as
>> > "part of the Wikimedia Movement" by the global community or the
>> > foundation or both.
>> >
>> > Such recognition would have lots of benefits for the new projects that
>> > share our values-- other WM projects would know to visibly link to
>> > them whenever they have relevant content (as we currently do across
>> > WMF projects).  We could permit access to the unified login, we could
>> > allow template-sharing or image-sharing.  We could set up
>> > interwiki-linking, and other interoperability functions.
>> >
>> > Such recognition would have even bigger benefits for us.   We could
>> > get an affiliation with an established, successful project that shares
>> > our values.  The kinds of project that we would build ourselves if
>> > someone else hadn't already built it.   Their userbases and readership
>> > would see get to Wikimedia as something larger than just WP, and it
>> > would help cement public understanding that Wikimedia is a Movement,
>> > very big, very diverse, and very special.
>> >
>> > ; 2--   We need a name for self-identified project affiliation.
>> >
>> > External projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative,
>> > that they are "part of" something.    That something should be a
>> > something that is connected to us.
>> >
>> > But self-identified affiliation has no gatekeeper, so whatever it is
>> > new projects can be "part of", there could be lots that we don't
>> > approve of.
>> >
>> > I'm the founder of a project and I want signal my ideological
>> > affiliation to WM.   I think my own project's values match the
>> > Wikimedia's values, in my opinion anyway.
>> >
>> > Recognizing that I may or may not be right-- what should I say I am a
>> > "part of"?
>> >
>> > We could just tell projects in this situation to say they are "Part of
>> > the Wikimedia Movement", but perhaps that name is one we want to
>> > reserve just for officially recognized projects.   If so, what name
>> > should such projects use instead?
>> >
>> > Note that they need to be saying something different than just "I like
>> > Wikipedia, here's a link".  They need to be _identifying_ their own
>> > efforts as _under the umbrella_ of what we do.   They need to be
>> > "investing" in us and our mission, saying "This project is our attempt
>> > to help share the world's information".
>> >
>> > Right now, I think we can craft any statement, logo, or button we want
>> > and like-minded projects would use it if prompted.   We just have to
>> > be thoughtful about what we want those things to look like.   We will
>> > no longer have total control over whichever name or logos we recommend
>> > projects use for self-identified affiliation.
>> >
>> > So that's my question -- what should third-party wikis say they are
>> > "part of", if they want to express a connection to us?
>> >
>> > Alec
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > foundation-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529
>> 4266
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Ziko van Dijk
The Netherlands
http://zikoblog.wordpress.com/

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

metasj
I had the same interpretation as Ziko.  Affiliate sites, in Alec's
language, want to indicate they share Wikimedian ideals.
Few such sites would want to become a Wikimedia-hosted project.

SJ


On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:03 AM, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> If I understand Alec right he wants a model wherein a project like
> WikiSomething can declare itself affiliated with Wikimedia:
> "We need a name for self-identified project affiliation. External
> projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative, that they
> are "part of" something."
> Of course, WikiSomething can say on its website "We like Wikimedia and
> share its goals", but the wording must not give the impression that
> there is an official link between both.
> The problem is that we don't want that anybody can decorate himself
> with the Wikimedia trademark and maybe abuse it. There must be an
> official recognition anyway from Wikimedia Foundation.
>
> Kind regards
> Ziko van Dijk
>
>
>
>
>
> 2011/7/13 Lodewijk <[hidden email]>:
>> I am not sure if this is about the same thing. I read Alec's questions as
>> being about content projects that want to affiliate themselves with
>> Wikimedia - want to become the new Wikimedia project. I know that in the
>> past this question has lived for example with OmegaWiki/WiktionaryZ . SJ,
>> would you consider this to be similar to Wikimedian groups who want to have
>> a slightly more formal relationship with the Movement?
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> 2011/7/13 Samuel Klein <[hidden email]>
>>
>>> We're discussing setting up an "Affiliation committee" to oversee
>>> simple, low-overhead wikimedia affiliates and associations.  These
>>> could be organizations 'under the umbrella' of free knowledge --
>>> requiring just basic review of their work and standards to confirm
>>> they are in line with our basic principles.  [1]
>>>
>>> Wikimedia Associations could be individual wikiprojects, clubs, or
>>> meetups run by one or more people that want to establish a lasting
>>> identity as part of the movement.
>>>
>>> Third-party wikis and larger groups could be Wikimedia Affiliates.
>>>
>>> Both could use web-badges and icons to identify them with the movement
>>> (derived from the WM community logo?).
>>>
>>> SJ
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project/New_group_models
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Alec Conroy <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Prompted by discussions in another thread, I ask a related question--
>>> >
>>> > ;1--  A roadmap towards affiliation
>>> >
>>> > How should a currently-unaffiliated project go about becoming 'part
>>> > of' Wikimedia?
>>> >
>>> > One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
>>> > website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
>>> > Movement".   (alternate text welcome )
>>> >
>>> > Later, a self-identified affiliate could be formally designated as
>>> > "part of the Wikimedia Movement" by the global community or the
>>> > foundation or both.
>>> >
>>> > Such recognition would have lots of benefits for the new projects that
>>> > share our values-- other WM projects would know to visibly link to
>>> > them whenever they have relevant content (as we currently do across
>>> > WMF projects).  We could permit access to the unified login, we could
>>> > allow template-sharing or image-sharing.  We could set up
>>> > interwiki-linking, and other interoperability functions.
>>> >
>>> > Such recognition would have even bigger benefits for us.   We could
>>> > get an affiliation with an established, successful project that shares
>>> > our values.  The kinds of project that we would build ourselves if
>>> > someone else hadn't already built it.   Their userbases and readership
>>> > would see get to Wikimedia as something larger than just WP, and it
>>> > would help cement public understanding that Wikimedia is a Movement,
>>> > very big, very diverse, and very special.
>>> >
>>> > ; 2--   We need a name for self-identified project affiliation.
>>> >
>>> > External projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative,
>>> > that they are "part of" something.    That something should be a
>>> > something that is connected to us.
>>> >
>>> > But self-identified affiliation has no gatekeeper, so whatever it is
>>> > new projects can be "part of", there could be lots that we don't
>>> > approve of.
>>> >
>>> > I'm the founder of a project and I want signal my ideological
>>> > affiliation to WM.   I think my own project's values match the
>>> > Wikimedia's values, in my opinion anyway.
>>> >
>>> > Recognizing that I may or may not be right-- what should I say I am a
>>> > "part of"?
>>> >
>>> > We could just tell projects in this situation to say they are "Part of
>>> > the Wikimedia Movement", but perhaps that name is one we want to
>>> > reserve just for officially recognized projects.   If so, what name
>>> > should such projects use instead?
>>> >
>>> > Note that they need to be saying something different than just "I like
>>> > Wikipedia, here's a link".  They need to be _identifying_ their own
>>> > efforts as _under the umbrella_ of what we do.   They need to be
>>> > "investing" in us and our mission, saying "This project is our attempt
>>> > to help share the world's information".
>>> >
>>> > Right now, I think we can craft any statement, logo, or button we want
>>> > and like-minded projects would use it if prompted.   We just have to
>>> > be thoughtful about what we want those things to look like.   We will
>>> > no longer have total control over whichever name or logos we recommend
>>> > projects use for self-identified affiliation.
>>> >
>>> > So that's my question -- what should third-party wikis say they are
>>> > "part of", if they want to express a connection to us?
>>> >
>>> > Alec
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > foundation-l mailing list
>>> > [hidden email]
>>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529
>>> 4266
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Ziko van Dijk
> The Netherlands
> http://zikoblog.wordpress.com/
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>



--
Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Pharos-3
Informally, and in my own mind, I tend to think of like-minded free
culture wiki sites as part of a broader "Wiki Knowledge" movement.

Of course, this is not meant to be an exclusivist or trademarked term :P

Thanks,
Richard
(User:Pharos)

On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 2:13 PM, Samuel Klein <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I had the same interpretation as Ziko.  Affiliate sites, in Alec's
> language, want to indicate they share Wikimedian ideals.
> Few such sites would want to become a Wikimedia-hosted project.
>
> SJ
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:03 AM, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> If I understand Alec right he wants a model wherein a project like
>> WikiSomething can declare itself affiliated with Wikimedia:
>> "We need a name for self-identified project affiliation. External
>> projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative, that they
>> are "part of" something."
>> Of course, WikiSomething can say on its website "We like Wikimedia and
>> share its goals", but the wording must not give the impression that
>> there is an official link between both.
>> The problem is that we don't want that anybody can decorate himself
>> with the Wikimedia trademark and maybe abuse it. There must be an
>> official recognition anyway from Wikimedia Foundation.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Ziko van Dijk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/7/13 Lodewijk <[hidden email]>:
>>> I am not sure if this is about the same thing. I read Alec's questions as
>>> being about content projects that want to affiliate themselves with
>>> Wikimedia - want to become the new Wikimedia project. I know that in the
>>> past this question has lived for example with OmegaWiki/WiktionaryZ . SJ,
>>> would you consider this to be similar to Wikimedian groups who want to have
>>> a slightly more formal relationship with the Movement?
>>>
>>> Lodewijk
>>>
>>> 2011/7/13 Samuel Klein <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> We're discussing setting up an "Affiliation committee" to oversee
>>>> simple, low-overhead wikimedia affiliates and associations.  These
>>>> could be organizations 'under the umbrella' of free knowledge --
>>>> requiring just basic review of their work and standards to confirm
>>>> they are in line with our basic principles.  [1]
>>>>
>>>> Wikimedia Associations could be individual wikiprojects, clubs, or
>>>> meetups run by one or more people that want to establish a lasting
>>>> identity as part of the movement.
>>>>
>>>> Third-party wikis and larger groups could be Wikimedia Affiliates.
>>>>
>>>> Both could use web-badges and icons to identify them with the movement
>>>> (derived from the WM community logo?).
>>>>
>>>> SJ
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project/New_group_models
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Alec Conroy <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Prompted by discussions in another thread, I ask a related question--
>>>> >
>>>> > ;1--  A roadmap towards affiliation
>>>> >
>>>> > How should a currently-unaffiliated project go about becoming 'part
>>>> > of' Wikimedia?
>>>> >
>>>> > One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
>>>> > website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
>>>> > Movement".   (alternate text welcome )
>>>> >
>>>> > Later, a self-identified affiliate could be formally designated as
>>>> > "part of the Wikimedia Movement" by the global community or the
>>>> > foundation or both.
>>>> >
>>>> > Such recognition would have lots of benefits for the new projects that
>>>> > share our values-- other WM projects would know to visibly link to
>>>> > them whenever they have relevant content (as we currently do across
>>>> > WMF projects).  We could permit access to the unified login, we could
>>>> > allow template-sharing or image-sharing.  We could set up
>>>> > interwiki-linking, and other interoperability functions.
>>>> >
>>>> > Such recognition would have even bigger benefits for us.   We could
>>>> > get an affiliation with an established, successful project that shares
>>>> > our values.  The kinds of project that we would build ourselves if
>>>> > someone else hadn't already built it.   Their userbases and readership
>>>> > would see get to Wikimedia as something larger than just WP, and it
>>>> > would help cement public understanding that Wikimedia is a Movement,
>>>> > very big, very diverse, and very special.
>>>> >
>>>> > ; 2--   We need a name for self-identified project affiliation.
>>>> >
>>>> > External projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative,
>>>> > that they are "part of" something.    That something should be a
>>>> > something that is connected to us.
>>>> >
>>>> > But self-identified affiliation has no gatekeeper, so whatever it is
>>>> > new projects can be "part of", there could be lots that we don't
>>>> > approve of.
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm the founder of a project and I want signal my ideological
>>>> > affiliation to WM.   I think my own project's values match the
>>>> > Wikimedia's values, in my opinion anyway.
>>>> >
>>>> > Recognizing that I may or may not be right-- what should I say I am a
>>>> > "part of"?
>>>> >
>>>> > We could just tell projects in this situation to say they are "Part of
>>>> > the Wikimedia Movement", but perhaps that name is one we want to
>>>> > reserve just for officially recognized projects.   If so, what name
>>>> > should such projects use instead?
>>>> >
>>>> > Note that they need to be saying something different than just "I like
>>>> > Wikipedia, here's a link".  They need to be _identifying_ their own
>>>> > efforts as _under the umbrella_ of what we do.   They need to be
>>>> > "investing" in us and our mission, saying "This project is our attempt
>>>> > to help share the world's information".
>>>> >
>>>> > Right now, I think we can craft any statement, logo, or button we want
>>>> > and like-minded projects would use it if prompted.   We just have to
>>>> > be thoughtful about what we want those things to look like.   We will
>>>> > no longer have total control over whichever name or logos we recommend
>>>> > projects use for self-identified affiliation.
>>>> >
>>>> > So that's my question -- what should third-party wikis say they are
>>>> > "part of", if they want to express a connection to us?
>>>> >
>>>> > Alec
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > foundation-l mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529
>>>> 4266
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ziko van Dijk
>> The Netherlands
>> http://zikoblog.wordpress.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617 529 4266
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Fred Bauder-2
In reply to this post by metasj
I'm open to negotiations, on behalf of Wikinfo, for the friendliest
possible cooperative relationship. However, the more relaxed editing
atmosphere, the exclusion of nasty editing behavior, and exploration of
alternate points of view are not negotiable.

Fred Bauder

> I had the same interpretation as Ziko.  Affiliate sites, in Alec's
> language, want to indicate they share Wikimedian ideals.
> Few such sites would want to become a Wikimedia-hosted project.
>
> SJ
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 7:03 AM, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> If I understand Alec right he wants a model wherein a project like
>> WikiSomething can declare itself affiliated with Wikimedia:
>> "We need a name for self-identified project affiliation. External
>> projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative, that they
>> are "part of" something."
>> Of course, WikiSomething can say on its website "We like Wikimedia and
>> share its goals", but the wording must not give the impression that
>> there is an official link between both.
>> The problem is that we don't want that anybody can decorate himself
>> with the Wikimedia trademark and maybe abuse it. There must be an
>> official recognition anyway from Wikimedia Foundation.
>>
>> Kind regards
>> Ziko van Dijk
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/7/13 Lodewijk <[hidden email]>:
>>> I am not sure if this is about the same thing. I read Alec's questions
>>> as
>>> being about content projects that want to affiliate themselves with
>>> Wikimedia - want to become the new Wikimedia project. I know that in
>>> the
>>> past this question has lived for example with OmegaWiki/WiktionaryZ .
>>> SJ,
>>> would you consider this to be similar to Wikimedian groups who want to
>>> have
>>> a slightly more formal relationship with the Movement?
>>>
>>> Lodewijk
>>>
>>> 2011/7/13 Samuel Klein <[hidden email]>
>>>
>>>> We're discussing setting up an "Affiliation committee" to oversee
>>>> simple, low-overhead wikimedia affiliates and associations.  These
>>>> could be organizations 'under the umbrella' of free knowledge --
>>>> requiring just basic review of their work and standards to confirm
>>>> they are in line with our basic principles.  [1]
>>>>
>>>> Wikimedia Associations could be individual wikiprojects, clubs, or
>>>> meetups run by one or more people that want to establish a lasting
>>>> identity as part of the movement.
>>>>
>>>> Third-party wikis and larger groups could be Wikimedia Affiliates.
>>>>
>>>> Both could use web-badges and icons to identify them with the
>>>> movement
>>>> (derived from the WM community logo?).
>>>>
>>>> SJ
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Movement_roles_project/New_group_models
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2011 at 8:32 PM, Alec Conroy <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > Prompted by discussions in another thread, I ask a related
>>>> question--
>>>> >
>>>> > ;1--  A roadmap towards affiliation
>>>> >
>>>> > How should a currently-unaffiliated project go about becoming 'part
>>>> > of' Wikimedia?
>>>> >
>>>> > One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
>>>> > website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
>>>> > Movement".   (alternate text welcome )
>>>> >
>>>> > Later, a self-identified affiliate could be formally designated as
>>>> > "part of the Wikimedia Movement" by the global community or the
>>>> > foundation or both.
>>>> >
>>>> > Such recognition would have lots of benefits for the new projects
>>>> that
>>>> > share our values-- other WM projects would know to visibly link to
>>>> > them whenever they have relevant content (as we currently do across
>>>> > WMF projects).  We could permit access to the unified login, we
>>>> could
>>>> > allow template-sharing or image-sharing.  We could set up
>>>> > interwiki-linking, and other interoperability functions.
>>>> >
>>>> > Such recognition would have even bigger benefits for us.   We could
>>>> > get an affiliation with an established, successful project that
>>>> shares
>>>> > our values.  The kinds of project that we would build ourselves if
>>>> > someone else hadn't already built it.   Their userbases and
>>>> readership
>>>> > would see get to Wikimedia as something larger than just WP, and it
>>>> > would help cement public understanding that Wikimedia is a
>>>> Movement,
>>>> > very big, very diverse, and very special.
>>>> >
>>>> > ; 2--   We need a name for self-identified project affiliation.
>>>> >
>>>> > External projects needs to be able to claim, on their own
>>>> initiative,
>>>> > that they are "part of" something.    That something should be a
>>>> > something that is connected to us.
>>>> >
>>>> > But self-identified affiliation has no gatekeeper, so whatever it
>>>> is
>>>> > new projects can be "part of", there could be lots that we don't
>>>> > approve of.
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm the founder of a project and I want signal my ideological
>>>> > affiliation to WM.   I think my own project's values match the
>>>> > Wikimedia's values, in my opinion anyway.
>>>> >
>>>> > Recognizing that I may or may not be right-- what should I say I am
>>>> a
>>>> > "part of"?
>>>> >
>>>> > We could just tell projects in this situation to say they are "Part
>>>> of
>>>> > the Wikimedia Movement", but perhaps that name is one we want to
>>>> > reserve just for officially recognized projects.   If so, what name
>>>> > should such projects use instead?
>>>> >
>>>> > Note that they need to be saying something different than just "I
>>>> like
>>>> > Wikipedia, here's a link".  They need to be _identifying_ their own
>>>> > efforts as _under the umbrella_ of what we do.   They need to be
>>>> > "investing" in us and our mission, saying "This project is our
>>>> attempt
>>>> > to help share the world's information".
>>>> >
>>>> > Right now, I think we can craft any statement, logo, or button we
>>>> want
>>>> > and like-minded projects would use it if prompted.   We just have
>>>> to
>>>> > be thoughtful about what we want those things to look like.   We
>>>> will
>>>> > no longer have total control over whichever name or logos we
>>>> recommend
>>>> > projects use for self-identified affiliation.
>>>> >
>>>> > So that's my question -- what should third-party wikis say they are
>>>> > "part of", if they want to express a connection to us?
>>>> >
>>>> > Alec
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > foundation-l mailing list
>>>> > [hidden email]
>>>> > Unsubscribe:
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1
>>>> 617 529
>>>> 4266
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> foundation-l mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Ziko van Dijk
>> The Netherlands
>> http://zikoblog.wordpress.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Samuel Klein          identi.ca:sj           w:user:sj          +1 617
> 529 4266
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Milos Rancic-2
In reply to this post by Pharos-3
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 20:41, Pharos <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Informally, and in my own mind, I tend to think of like-minded free
> culture wiki sites as part of a broader "Wiki Knowledge" movement.
>
> Of course, this is not meant to be an exclusivist or trademarked term :P

Wiki is just a tool for creating content. Wikimedia is a movement and
people want to be a part of the movement.

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Alec Conroy-2
On 13 July 2011 01:32, Alec Conroy <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Prompted by discussions in another thread, I ask a related question--
>
> ;1--  A roadmap towards affiliation
>
> How should a currently-unaffiliated project go about becoming 'part
> of' Wikimedia?
>
> One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
> website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
> Movement".   (alternate text welcome )

That would be a trademark violation. We should protect our trademarks.
We don't want them associated with just any project. The Foundation,
or its delegate, needs to approve any affiliations. Letting anyone
call themselves part of the movement could cause us significant harm
since an affiliation doesn't just say that the project supports us,
but that we support the project. We don't want people claiming we
support them unless we actually do.

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

jmh649
In reply to this post by Alec Conroy-2
I have been working on collaborations with a couple of groups including
ECGPedia (http://en.ecgpedia.org/) and TRIP Database (
http://www.tripdatabase.com/). Both are fairly well known sites and share
our values. They are both interested in working with us in some manner. Is
this something I could offer them? Right now ECGpedia is offer us 2000 ECG
images and TRIP Database is looking at linking to our high quality medical
content thus increasing our exposure.

--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Alec Conroy-2
So happy to see all the helpful responses!

So, it seems like I only have two mode of communication:  "Verbose and
clear" or "Brief but confusing".   My email  starting this thread was
brief, let's try the other style.


Executive Summary:

The Wikimedia Movement is a really big deal that is exploding beyond
the confines of WMF servers.   As that happens, what do we want to
call the movement that includes all the projects with our value set,
regardless of their current hosting situation?

Right now, the de facto name is 'The Wikimedia Movement'.   If we
don't like that name, for trademark reasons or for aesthetic reasons,
we need to speak up now or forever hold our peace.

Non-Summary:

Here's the whole train of thought that led to this thread:

1.  Wikimedia is a movement.

We're a movement with identifiable values.  This movement has become
very, very successful.

2.  The movement is older than the WMF

We're not the first people to realize knowledge is good.  Our
ancestors include proud figures like the public literacy movements,
public education movements, the public library movement, the public
university movement, some of the public broadcasting movement, the
free software movement and far more than could be listed.

Our movement's 'basic value' of universal access to information has
been saving the world for a long time.  We ARE something very new and
very exciting-- but we are also the heirs to a proud heritage of great
world-changing accomplishments.

3.  The movement is bigger than the WMF-hosted projects.

Our movement doesn't just stop when you leave wikimedia.org.   Our
movement and our influence extends far beyond the mere borders of our
own offices and our own server farms.

In particular, there are now a large number of Mediawiki projects
hosted on third-party ISPs.  Often these third-party-hosted projects
share our values, our userbase, even our software stack.

They are accomplishing our mission for us--  they are an unrecognized
'part' of our very own movement.

Everyone probably has their own favorite third-party-hosted projects--
for example, I'm really excited by how science is using the Mediawiki
model. We could spend a lot of time talking about all the exciting new
things that people are doing on third-party-hosted projects using the
technology originally developed for WMF-hosted projects.

There are lots of projects online that share our values PERFECTLY.
They do work we'd be proud to call our own.  This number is already in
the dozens, probably in the hundreds, and may soon be in the
thousands.

3b.  The Frontiers of Innovation

It's only been ten years, but "massive collaboration to create free
information" is no longer a crazy idea-- it's now seen as one of the
most successful authorial models ever discovered.  Wikipedia won.

But while we've been busy conquering over the encyclopedia world, our
"new project policy" has been, effectively: "If you have a new project
idea, just go somewhere else and do it.   When you're bigger and we're
bigger, we'll reconsider things. "

For a while, people proposed new projects and argued over their
merits, but we never signed off on them.   At this point, new projects
really don't even get discussed with us anymore.

New project creators haven't  stopped creating amazing things, of
course--  they've just stopped bothering to ask us for help, because
they know we don't do new projects right now.

"Be Bold" stops at the edit level for us-- project organizers and
extension developers have to go through a no-win battle of red tape if
they want to get their talents utilized.  So instead, they just go to
third-party hosts.   No red tape, no argument, freedom to innovate,
perfect.    But no ties to Wikimedia either.

Unfortunately for us, this means that much of the "exciting,
cutting-edge innovation" isn't happening on WMF-hosted projects
anymore. The most technologically advanced wikis are the ones that
aren't hosted by committee.

The frontier of innovation are the small projects hosted by
third-parties.   Once a project has too many readers and too many
vested contributors, it simple cannot be as agile.   If you have to
convince an executive to use a feature, you won't bother building it.
 If you only have to convince yourself, you start seeing features that
are only a single night of coding bliss away from actual use.

A existing project already used by millions simply cannot
"out-innovate" a brand new project that has nothing to lose by trying
new things.  We _need_ the brand new, 1-day-old projects to be "part
of" our movement-- they get the new users, they're where the
excitement is, and they're the ones most likely to find out something
interesting and useful, something a million-reader-project COULD use.

4.  The opportunity for new projects

Currently, third-party-hosted projects are seen as something
completely and utterly separate from us.   They are not seen as "part
of" us.   Nor are WMF-hosted projects and our third-party-hosted
cousins seen as "part of" some larger movement.  Instead, there's a
arbitrary psychological disconnect between the two groups.

When a third-party-hosted project does something great, no one notices
that it's really another part of our larger movement that's working to
do something inspiring and world-changing.

It never even occurs to most readers that third-party-hosted projects
are "part of" anything.   They're just going to a website, and, maybe
the website is "similar  to" us in some vague cosmetic or technical
way.   But readers aren't noticing the web of ideological threads that
connects all the free information projects.

It would be good to point out to all of us that these
third-party-hosted projects are really 'part of' us, our movement at
least.. They share our most basic values, our editor communities
overlap, our missions overlap-- the difference is just who pays the
bills for the hosting-- if you make us pay, you're part of the
movement.

Right now, if a WM-like project can pay its own bills and host itself,
it might not be considered "part" of the movement, regardless of how
WM-like it is.   This is a missed opportunity, akin to 'penalizing'
projects that can pay their own way.

If we want new innovation and new projects and more active users,
where should we look?

We start with the many WM-style projects that are already out there!

We start with the projects that are already succeeding and
accomplishing our mission for us, without us even asking them to!
Projects doing our job without us leading them and without our
foundation having to give them any financial or technical support.

5.  How do you identify Wikimedia Movement projects?

As wikis become cheap and more powerful, everyone starts to wants one.
  Ask a room of geeks for a show of hands of who has a personal
Mediawiki install, and you'll see lots of hands.  Mediawiki is
on-track to become the Apache of the 2010s.

The vast majority of these 'projects' won't match our values, they
won't even pretend to.  But like needles hidden in the haystack, there
will be tons of projects  that do claim ideological affinity for our
values and report an intellectual kinship to us.   There will be even
more projects that don't explicitly claim this affinity, but which
admit to having it once asked.  It's up to us to try to identify them
all and make sure they get a 'connection' to the larger movement.

5b.  Manual Identification isn't getting any easier

It's only 2011 and the task of identifying third-party-hosted projects
that share our values is already quite daunting.

As Mediawiki become cheaper, faster, and more-standardized, the task
of identifying third-party projects that share our values will become
mindboggling-- akin to asking someone to "find me every website run by
an Objectivist".

There was a time, in the early 90s, when you could still have manually
listed "Websites Espousing Objectivism".  For now, we can still
manually list  "Mediawikis that share Wikimedia's Values".

Now, It would be impossible to find every website that espouses
Objectivism.   There are just too many websites, there are just too
many objectivists, there are just too many objectivists who run
websites for the answer to be compiled.  The list would be too long
for any human to read, nor could any one human read all the languages
included in the list.

This was unfathomable in the days before Apache's dominance, during a
time  paleotechnologists refer to as "The Gopher Age".   So it's kinda
unfathomable now that every human online might one day each have a
dozens or hundreds Mediawikis, each infinitely customizable, each
fully automated to share information with friends' Mediawikis, each
capable of applications we've never even dreamt of.

But platform shifts have happened before, and it can happen again-- in
fact, it will happen again.  The dominance of Mediawiki as a platform
is already happening, and indeed, its happening was, sorta, "the plan"
all along.

If our movement unexpectedly fails and we don't become "something
really really special", then I guess we could console ourselves with
the knowledge that we can still manually count all the Mediawiki
installs that legitimately share our values.

But let's plan for success.   Let's plan that the current trends
continue, that mediawiki DOES become the next big platform, and that
our job is to make sure that ALL our movement rides out that paradigm
shift intact, without getting lost in the crowd of sites that might
share our software without sharing our values.

6.  The Top-Down Approach for identifying the Wikimedia Movement

One approach to identify everybody is to just pick a trusted authority
and let them  identify who's who.

A central authority-- the foundation or its designates-- could try to
formally identify which projects OFFICIALLY share our values.   They
can ask the community to generate nominations, they can perform
investigations, they can hold public discussion, they can debate in
private. They could hold a poll, they could schedule a global vote.  A
select committee could write a recommendation and vote on it, the
staff could review the recommendations and write their own evaluations
of the recommendations. The final affiliation could at last be
certified by a vote of by the board at one of its regular meetings.

A top-down process will be time-consuming for all parties.  The
negative result of a top-down process would be either an explicit
rejection or an indefinite maybe-- outcomes that would needlessly
demoralizing a potential ally.    The positive result of a top-down
process would be a very formal, explicit endorsement from the very
heart of our organization--  potentially very dangerous to us if we
ever unwisely endorsed a bad-faith actor.

7.  The Top-Down Approach is a bottleneck.

To give any kind of 'formal endorsement', we are going to have to do
some pretty intense investigation.

We have to screen for bad faith actors, which is a huge deal already
just at the edit level and the RFA level.  We have to decide "how
close" in ideology is "close enough".   We have to "trust" the
editorial judgement of the already-established project's admin and
editor community.  We have to assess the character of their
organizational leadership, make sure they're not fraudulent or
criminal.

Projects will have to undergo a lot of scrutiny to become "Formal WMF
affiliates".   They will have to be well-established already, and they
will have to convince a group of WMF appointees that they should be
endorsed.

This top down process means we'll have to reject many, many
potentially good-faith projects, simply because they're too new or
perhaps a little too different, or perhaps not tied to a trustworthy
organization.

A top-down approach means we will, of necessity, turn away most
good-faith projects that say they want to be "part of" us.  If the
foundation is deciding, we'll have no choice-- to endorse a brand new,
wholly-unknown entity would not be prudent.

8.  The Top-Down Approach, operating by itself, will exclude the bulk
of the Wikimedia Movement

Top-down doesn't scale, and thus it will be unable, by itself, to
fully identify the entire diversity of the movement.

The best evidence of this fact is the status quo.   Right now, the
top-down approach does not even exist. Thus, we are, in effect,
currently excluding absolutely all third-party-hosted projects from
our movement, regardless of their success or values.  This has been
the status quo for our existence.

We have had about ten years, but our central authority hasn't
developed such a method yet.   That isn't their fault-- it's just the
nature of central-authorities-- there's only one of them, so they tend
to be quite busy with more pressing matters.

Board members, foundation, its staff, and its designates-- they're all
one-of-a-kind--  so they don't scale.   They can't reasonably spend
time evaluating a project unless there's a clear pragmatic reason to
do so-- these people are busy, few, and they are mindful and
considerate of the fact that they're working on the donor's dime.

They can evaluate a few dozen potential affiliates, not hundreds or
thousands.   And that's how many mediawikis are coming.

Even if we WANTED to have a very liberal and a very expansive view of
the movement, a top down approach still couldn't identify the full
scope of movement, with all its unique parts, large and small.   We're
too big, and we're getting bigger all the time.

Wikipedia was a spark that set alight to the whole planet , and the
Wikimedia Movement is spreading across borders of language and nation.

No central group of people could identify it all.   Right now, a
central group wouldn't have time to intelligently investigate the
trustworthiness of all our potential allies.   I think soon, a central
group won't have the time to even speak aloud the names of all our
potential allies, not that any one group of people could pronounce all
those names.

There are six billion+ people out there, and it looks like the huge
bulk of them are going to be getting internet technology in the
foreseeable future.

In the time it takes to formally investigate just one "potential
formal ally" to see if they're trustworthy and share our values, how
many new projects are being created that also share our basic values
but are too small or too independent to merit a top-down evaluation?

When that number is >1, then top-down approach alone can never keep up.

9.  The top-down method has its place, but not for "Informal Alliances"

When we want to share resources in a big way, we do, in fact, need a
top-down method to make a considered opinion.  If we want to share
foundation money, we definitely need foundation approval.   If we want
to provide large-scale developer efforts or large-scale hosting or
some other significant resource-expenditure from the foundation, then
we absolutely do need the 'responsible parties' to evaluate that
choice.

But "informal alliance" just isn't such a case.   These projects don't
want our money, they don't want our hosting, they don't want anything
from us.

Rather, it is we who want THEM to recognize their kinship with us.  We
want THEM to help promote our values and contribute to our projects.
We want permission from THEM to include their work as 'part of our
efforts', even though WMF itself had no hand in their work.

10.  Sketching a bottom-up method for identifying the movement.

If the top-down approach isn't perfect for "informal alliance", what
would a bottom-up approach look like?

To me, the very first step of a bottom up approach would be the
third-party-projects themselves just stepping forward and saying "We
think we're part of the Wikimedia Movement, we think we share it's
values!".

Call this arrangement "Self-Identified Alliance". Consider it seriously.

"Self-identified alliance" is the easiest, most efficient, and
least-risky way for us to start identifying the entirety of the
Wikimedia movement.

Under this scheme, our foundation and community don't have to do any
evaluations at all, but nor do we have to take any risks.  Similarly,
under "self-identified alliance",  third party projects wouldn't have
to risk rejection in order to express common membership with us.

No red-tape, no official ties, just the overlapping community saying
"We share The Wikimedia Movement's values, let's put the badge for
that in our site's footer".

Pretty boring and non-controversial at this  at this stage, really.
Except for the precise choice of movement name,  "Self-identified
Alliance" s simple, easy, and devoid of conflict.

A culture of "Self-identified alliance" would get us a LOT of
positives.   Suddenly Wikimedia isn't just 'the foundation that hosts
Wikipedia', suddenly and visibly it's a global movement.   Insiders
already know this, of course, but  the sooner the rest of the world
knows it, the better.

For most third-party-projects, self-identified alliance is really all
that needs to happen.   MOST don't need any resources, most don't need
a top-down evaluation.

They just should be able to acknowledge, in some simple ways, that
they're "part of" the Wikimedia Movement.   Alternatively, we could
say they are "part of" an  unnamed  movement which is larger than the
Wikimedia Movement, something that the Wikimedia Movement is but a
small part of.  Whatever terms and brands are used, those ideological
ties across projects need to be built.

11.  The benefits of alliance are great

Once a project is "part of" us in some way, we get to 'brag' about
them like doting grandparents-- when they succeed, their successes are
our successes.  When they fail, well, everyone has to find their own
path in life.

Most of all-- if a third-party-project does something mindblowingly
amazing that the whole world talks about, let's make sure we can
actually include that accomplishment when we talk to our donors about
why it's important they support our movement.

If Proteopedia does something amazing right now, when it's "not part
of us",  people might say "Wikimedia is losing it-- the cutting edge
stuff isn't happening at Wikimedia, they missed the boat, they're
yesterday's news.

But if Proteopedia is "part of us" and does something amazing, then
people will say "Wow!  Wikimedia is breaking out of its old shell and
expanding into exciting new fields and new hosting arrangements".

To those of us on the inside, it's not a competition--   if a third
party project with our values does something great with our
technology, that's a credit to us all, and one less thing we have to
do using foundation funds.

Self-identified alliance will help the readers in the rest of the
world understand that we see things that way.  When Proteopedia
scores, our whole team gets a point, regardless of who physically
hosted the project.

12.  A community-based approach for identification

Eventually the community could develop some method for identifying
those projects that should be allies.  Some community process could
recognize "self-identified members" as "mutually-identified members"--
 where both communities recognize the shared values.   This could be
used for moderate collaboration across projects, like access to share
user logins, shared user space, shared templates, interwiki linking,
etc.

Whatever a "community-designated alliance" would entail, the main
point is that it wouldn't have to involve that same full endorsement
from our foundation of a top-down approach-- the kind of endorsement
that might be embarrassing if a promising project turns out to be
untrustworthy.  Community-identified alliances would be free to make
mistakes--  they wouldn't be the full for-life weddings of top-down
formal affiliation.  A community-based alliance  could be limited,
pragmatic collaborations--  simple things designed just to avoid
unnecessary duplication of work, avoid username collisions, avoid
template forking, etc.

And of course-- both the "self-identified alliance" process and
"community-designated alliance" processes would be great "feeders" for
the "top-down process".   if we do want heavy-duty resource sharing,
the earlier alliances and discussions will help us making the best
possible decision.


13.  A Future of Status Quo

Suppose we don't make any new alliances at all.  A few top-down board
approved new projects, but that's it.  What happens to us?

New third-party-hosted projects will continue to grow, but they won't
have a connection to us.  Projects that share our values but not our
hosting will notice each other.   They will also notice how beneficial
cross-project collaboration is, as we've already noticed with Commons
and interwiki linking.   They will also notice the benefits of
cross-project alliances, just as we now are.

They will start forming alliances and partnerships with each other
that don't necessarily include us.

If enough time passed, they would form their own organizations and
pick a name to express their common value set-- a name that means,
essentially "Wikimedia Movement values but without any common hosting
or common authority"

If enough time passes without us giving these third-party projects a
collective name, it's inevitable some name for them will emerge.  If
we're lucky, the name will recognize a kinship to us or otherwise be
connected to our existing organizations.  That would be a good thing.

If we're unlucky, the name might ignore us all together, viewing WMF
as a dinosaur too big and too old to evolve.     This would be bad.

If we're really unlucky, the third-party projects might actually
'define themselves' in opposition to us-- the collection of projects
that are like WMF-projects  but DIFFERENT and BETTER in some important
way.   This would be very bad, especially if it were true.


14.  Wikimedia is a movement.... but with a trademarked name.

So you start with self-identification.    The straightforward approach
in a normal movement would be just to tell people:  If you think
you're part of us, just say "Part of the Wikimedia Movement".

Normally, that's all there is to it.   No one asks permission from a
non-profit corporation to be part of the  Free Speech Movement or the
Civil Rights Movement or a Christian Movement  or a Buddhism
Movement--  instead, they just stand up and say "I'm part of the X
movement".

But "Wikimedia" is a trademark owned by the foundation.  Historically
it's been used only for the foundation-hosted projects.   And indeed,
there are good reasons we might want to preserve the limited use of
that mark and not encourage its use for self-identified alliance.

But in the same breath, let me add, for anyone who still thinks we
don't need a name for self-identified alliance-- trademark law is
very, very weak.    If most of the third-party projects all started
using the current de facto movement name, aka  "The Wikimedia
Movement", we COULD NOT, in practice, stop them from doing that.

Sure, the trademark laws would be on our side, but we can't
realistically sue an allied movement that shares our values and
userbase once it picks its name.   Bigger entities than us, with far
stronger profit motives than we have, have tried far harder than we
are willing to-- in order to sue a genie back into its bottle. It
doesn't work for them, and they're rich and ruthless.   We're poor and
bleeding-hearty-- it definitely wouldn't work for us.

Trademark law can stop one or two bad-faith troublemakers, certainly.
If a large group of good-faith projects that shared our values just
started self-identifying themselves as "part of the Wikimedia
Movement" in some way, in practice we'd be absolutely helpless to
force the to stop--   the most we could do is ask nicely for them to
stop, and even that might not work, depending on how much time has
passed in this imaginary scenario.

So, if we don't want these third-party projects to call themselves
"Part of the Wikimedia Movement",  we need to think up a better name
for them to use.

Left to their own devices, they'll pick a name, and there's nothing
stopping them from picking "Wikimedia Movement" if they wanted to,
except perhaps for our sincere request for them not to use that name
in that way.


15.  "The ______ Movement" -- the movement any project can claim to join.

So, if we don't want to use Wikimedia Movement as a name, then what
would be better?

We want a name anyone can use with no prior approval.  Regrettably,
this means we also want a name that bad-faith actors can use, even
though we will frown on it and deny the validity of such use.

We want a name that represents "membership", not mere "opinion".   "We
like Wikimedia" is not enough-- we really need investiture and
identification.

16.  While we're on the subject,  about the name "Wikimedia"....

As an aside, Wikimedia is a really lousy movement name anyway-- it
that gives us nothing new.  Most people in the wider world STILL don't
know it.   The word "Wikimedia" tells us almost nothing about our
values.   It was a fine 2003 non-profit-corporation name, but it's not
an inspiring or informative movement name.

There's plenty of room for improvement if we do indeed want to reserve
the historical usage of Wikimedia for just WMF-hosted projects.   Just
know that the wider movement name is going to be the popular one-- if
we pick a movement name other than Wikimedia, eventually we'll
probably want to change the foundation name to match it once that new
name achieves recognition.

So, this really is the kind of question that comes in 16 chapters and
needs to be considered by our finest minds.    It's fundamentally a
branding question-- the identities of the allies will work themselves
out on their own without our help.   But do we want their brand to
include us?   Do we want to include them in our brand?  Do we want to
make a new brand that includes us both?

This question might wind up being unimportant in some futures where
mediawiki doesn't become dominant.  But in the most likely scenario,
the one that was planned for and appears to be playing out right now,
this question is extremely critical.   We could be picking the name of
our entire movement when we pick a name to give to third-party-hosted
projects with our values.   Under some scenarios, future people might
not know the name "Wikimedia" but they will know this new name
movement name. (if, indeed, we pick a different name)

17.  Coda--  The new challenges of a Movement

"Wikimedia is a Movement" may be the most brilliant and enlightening
phrase I've ever heard about our projects.

It's hard to imagine that there was a time, very recently really, when
I had never thought of it in precisely that way.  Yet as soon as I
read "Wikimedia is a Movement", I instantly recognized it was true,
and indeed, it had always been true.

Just as we have to think about article-level issues and project-level
issues and foundation-level issues, now we have grown to the point
that we really have to think about movement-level issues.

Right now, the main problem at the movement-level is that we're
arbitrarily excluding third-party-hosted projects for no particular
reason-- we just haven't figured out how to include them yet.

But in general, this insight-- that we're a movement, this brings up a
whole new paradigm of thinking about things.

For example, we want to avoid movement schisms, where half the
movement somehow feels no allegiance to the other half.  We want to
avoid movement dilution, where as the movement spreads, new parts no
longer feel any tie to the epicenter of the movement.

Right now,  projects still number in the hundreds, not hundreds of
thousands.  Self identification + bottom up + top down ought to get it
all if we act now.

But what we want to avoid is sort of what happened to the Christianity
movement--  common groups with common values and a common history
nevertheless became split apart, forming into a thousand little
denominations that recognize no central authority, with no
universally-recognized "original denomination" and no inherent
organizational ties to each other, just the shared memory of a distant
common founding.

That model may have been a good fit for a religious movement, but it's
not a good plan for us.  We do want to diversify and expand at insane
rates, but we want to keep our shared connections intact during this
expansion.

The very first step to keeping a movement coherent is to recognize
either a central authority or a central creed.   Then, everyone in the
movement can agree on something.  More importantly, every the movement
can know everyone agrees on something.   And, best of all, everyone in
the movement can know what that something is that they all agree on.
Most importantly, they can all know they all agree on that they are
all part of the same bigger something-- the movement.

My working proposal for the "unifying doctrine", the 'creed' of our
movement, is not particularly original nor particularly inspired:

"We believe in the same values as the WMF-hosted projects"

That's all.  It's very rough and it says almost nothing.

But the tiny something that it does say is very, very important to get
said-- we and the third party hosted projects that share our values
ARE connected, we are 'part of the same thing' and together we are
'part of something larger'.

"Just because your hosting isn't with us doesn't mean your project
isn't with us."

(If anyone wants, we could create an organizationally-neutral
'creed'-- something that referenced only values, not our specific
organization by name.  But there's no need for that-- the movement is
9 years past creation, not 900 years--   everyone knows we're the
original epicenter and we're very non-controversial.   )

The third-party-hosted projects didn't pick their hosts out of any
anti-WMF sentiment.   They didn't "schism" as a statement of
'apostasy' or anything ridiculous like that.   The third-party-hosted
projects  love us as much as the WMF-hosted projects do.  They just
didn't need to wade through our red tape to get funding or hosting, so
they didn't.

For most such projects, all they need to rejoin the rest of the
movement is permission to say "I'm part of the movement!".   Let's
make sure we give it to them, before they grow in number to the point
that they start forming their own organizations and their own
movements to meet their own needs, leaving us as the ones 'outside'
the mainstream body of movement.

No need to panic, we're still a looong way away from anything like
that being possible... But internet life moves pretty fast, and
summers only come once a year.

If you had front row seats for the rise of Apache and the dominance of
the web,  go look at look at Mediawiki development right now,  and
you'll get a real sense of deja vu.  What the developers are building
right now isn't meant to host a half dozen project-types for WMF, it's
poised to become THE next platform for serious non-commercial
knowledge-sharing.

The future of our movement is that most of our projects will not have
any need for our direct funding or our direct hosting.  But they will
need community and leadership-- and we happen to have a great
community and some amazing leaders.

In the very near future, wikihosting will be free or so-close-to-free
that nobody notices the difference. Free hosts can provide everything
we do technologically, but they can't provide a guiding vision or a
unifying dream.

Thus far in our history, the 'unifying force' has been gravitational--
 the sheer mass of a successful Wiki makes it hard to escape.   The
amount of resources required to host a successful project initially
meant few groups tried to start new projects, and the new projects had
to be rather small.  The resource drag of a Mediawiki meant that you
couldn't just take a huge section of our content and successfully move
it elsewhere-- the weight was too great, the engines for change were
still too weak.

That time is ending.  We can no longer count on our own mass to hold
the movement together.  Successful third-party-hosted projects are
successfully "blasting off" from our movement, and they are
successfully 'escaping' our gravity.

Going forward, we need a stronger glue to hold us together.  "We'll
give you free hosting" isn't an incentive anymore--  much of our
movement won't need free hosting, and indeed, many will welcome the
perception of editorial independence that third-party-hosts provide.
As these projects form, we must not let them slip away from core of
our movement through our carelessness-- if projects truly want to
leave, let them.  Most don't.

The Wikimedia Foundation's greatest asset is that it sits at the
epicenter of the Wikimedia Movement.

If we arbitrarily define-away third-party-hosted projects from being
part of us, the center of our own movement will shift away from us,
and one day we will find that WMF is not longer the hub at the center
of our own movement, but a dinosaur on the periphery.

The next wave of innovation is coming and it is likely to first hit
the projects we do not host.   When the bright start that is a
hird-party-hosted project explodes and becomes visible to the world,
the wider world should see entire constellation of the Wikimedia
Movement at work, not just a single, random, isolated bright star
going nova.

Alec

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Alec Conroy-2
In reply to this post by Ziko van Dijk
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 4:03 AM, Ziko van Dijk <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> If I understand Alec right he wants a model wherein a project like
> WikiSomething can declare itself affiliated with Wikimedia:
> "We need a name for self-identified project affiliation. External
> projects needs to be able to claim, on their own initiative, that they
> are "part of" something."
> Of course, WikiSomething can say on its website "We like Wikimedia and
> share its goals", but the wording must not give the impression that
> there is an official link between both.

> The problem is that we don't want that anybody can decorate himself
> with the Wikimedia trademark and maybe abuse it. There must be an
> official recognition anyway from Wikimedia Foundation.

This!  We want the "first-class citizenship" provided by "We're Part
of The Wikimedia Movement", but without trademark issues AND without
stepping on toes.

But it has to be "equal footing" and "membership"y.     An "I <3 The
Wikimedia Movement" bumper sticker just isn't the same effect.

Alec

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Alec Conroy-2
In reply to this post by Milos Rancic-2
On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 12:04 PM, Milos Rancic <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 20:41, Pharos <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Informally, and in my own mind, I tend to think of like-minded free
>> culture wiki sites as part of a broader "Wiki Knowledge" movement.
>>
>> Of course, this is not meant to be an exclusivist or trademarked term :P
>
> Wiki is just a tool for creating content. Wikimedia is a movement and
> people want to be a part of the movement.


Good point and good point.
There are lot of alternate terms running around.  Wiki Knowledge
Movement is certainly a plausible one that would fit the bill.   In my
own mind, I use "Free Culture Movement".

Emotionally, I think my brain still lumps it all under the concept
"Public Library"-- everything got really dang fancy, but it's the same
spirit.    But the 'sacredness' I feel about WM is the same exact kind
of 'sacredness' I felt about walking in a public library in
childhood-- both are "a benevolent force for universal enlightenment."

The problem with using Wiki in the movement is that we definitely are
bigger than just wikis either.   If a project uses some other
software, but shares our values, they're still in the movement.
Wiki, formally, refers just to the software tool, although in the
wider world it's conflated with being "Wikipedia-like" in some way.

Some parts of the movement may not be projects that use wikis.  They
might be at the fringe, but we don't want to exclude them if they
share our basic values.

Alec

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Alec Conroy-2
In reply to this post by Thomas Dalton
>> One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
>> website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
>> Movement".   (alternate text welcome )
>
> That would be a trademark violation. We should protect our trademarks.
> We don't want them associated with just any project. The Foundation,
> or its delegate, needs to approve any affiliations. Letting anyone
> call themselves part of the movement could cause us significant harm
> since an affiliation doesn't just say that the project supports us,
> but that we support the project. We don't want people claiming we
> support them unless we actually do.

Precisely.   So what do we want them saying instead when they're in
that situation?    We can write the text, we can design the badges, we
just need to let them know what we want that text and badge to be.
And, of course, we need to have it reflect something ABOUT them that
they would put it up-- it can't just be a link or a banner, it needs
to be about movement identity.

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

jmh649
In reply to this post by Alec Conroy-2
This is indeed one of the greatest suggestion I have heard in a long
time. Having people add "Part of the Wikimedia Movement" would benefit
both parties. All of us here I think support free knowledge wherever
it is found. Allowing our GLAM partners to use this wording and those
who are actively collaborating with us would be a start.

--
James Heilman
MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Alec Conroy-2
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 8:17 AM, James Heilman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This is indeed one of the greatest suggestion I have heard in a long
> time. Having people add "Part of the Wikimedia Movement" would benefit
> both parties. All of us here I think support free knowledge wherever
> it is found. Allowing our GLAM partners to use this wording and those
> who are actively collaborating with us would be a start.

Thanks for the kind words.  And the only thing that's stopping us from
having that many sites in the movement is Trademark Law / Branding .
 The idea works and requires no resources, just a small campaign of
communication offering up the possibility.

But, if
1) we like the idea of "Part of the $x Movement" and
2) we don't want to use "Wikimedia" in the movement name,
Then:
We should _really_ ask the foundation professionals to use their
non-profit magic to find the right name.


Experts have gotten quite good at picking brand names, and our
foundations' experts are quite... expert.

These people put together fundraising campaigns with ever-increasingly
head-explodingly-successful results.  They have conducted
journal-grade scientific investigations into our readership and our
editor populations, diagnosing problem areas with pinpoint accuracy
before the problems develop into diseases.

If somebody's going to evaluate brand names based on their appeal to
the wider population, I vote they be the ones to do it. :)

Alec

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by Alec Conroy-2
On 14 July 2011 15:32, Alec Conroy <[hidden email]> wrote:

>>> One easy step they could take would be to simply  say, on their
>>> website, "This site considers itself to be part of the Wikimedia
>>> Movement".   (alternate text welcome )
>>
>> That would be a trademark violation. We should protect our trademarks.
>> We don't want them associated with just any project. The Foundation,
>> or its delegate, needs to approve any affiliations. Letting anyone
>> call themselves part of the movement could cause us significant harm
>> since an affiliation doesn't just say that the project supports us,
>> but that we support the project. We don't want people claiming we
>> support them unless we actually do.
>
> Precisely.   So what do we want them saying instead when they're in
> that situation?    We can write the text, we can design the badges, we
> just need to let them know what we want that text and badge to be.
> And, of course, we need to have it reflect something ABOUT them that
> they would put it up-- it can't just be a link or a banner, it needs
> to be about movement identity.

One option would be to make a simple process through which they can
request official affiliation and then those projects that are in
keeping with our values and purpose could be given permission to call
themselves "part of the Wikimedia Movement" or similar.

Another option is to not have them as part of the Wikimedia Movement,
but for them and us to be part of a new group. The Association of Free
Content Producers and Providers, perhaps.

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Thomas Morton
In reply to this post by Alec Conroy-2
Thanks for the kind words.  And the only thing that's stopping us from

> having that many sites in the movement is Trademark Law / Branding .
>  The idea works and requires no resources, just a small campaign of
> communication offering up the possibility.
>
>
Not so much that; but protecting Wikimedia brandmark is *really* important
because otherwise it will get misused.

I dislike the idea of making it ultra-accessible for basically anyone to
stick "Part of the Wikimedia Movement" on their website - it serves little
purpose (per se) and you are going to get the vast majority of people
slapping it on as a neat badge (or to take advantage of the brand) without
actually subscribing or forwarding our aims. Wikimedia has broad aims, but a
reasonably narrow focus, and that makes the movement hard for some to
digest.

I don't think any direct affiliation should be as simple as making use of a
badge - there is nothing wrong with being a little selective, and there are
many benefits.

The way that other bodies do this is to set up an alternate brand name, as
you are suggesting, and this is the way we should go. The boy should have a
snappy and clear brand name, with the same clear message. It initially
should be formed within the WMF eco-system with a comittee drawn from the
various aspects of the Foundation.

There should be a lightweight way of signing up to the movement, with
various levels. So it could start with the free-for all option of a little
badge saying:
* "We support X movement, free content etc."

Then the next step should require a simple vetting process to make sure they
meet the aims/goals of the movement. That allows them the "Part of" badge.

Finally, for the larger and significant projects there should be some form
of "top level" affiliation or partnership that allows them access to
the committee and organisational structure.

I think people would find this more digestible. Advantages:

* Allows us to develop a new brand name with a clearer message
* Means the WMF isn't left "responsible" for the members/supporters of the
movement (as the WMF would simply be a member of the movement)
* It takes it away from the Foundation a little, which may be more palatable
to others and encourage them to sign up

The people to learn from here is the free software movement - Apache and GNU
have gone through all of these stages and have some ideas we can use.
Tom
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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Alec Conroy-2
On Thu, Jul 14, 2011 at 9:18 AM, Thomas Morton
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> I dislike the idea of making it ultra-accessible for basically anyone to
> stick "Part of the Wikimedia Movement" on their website - it serves little
> purpose (per se) and you are going to get the vast majority of people
> slapping it on as a neat badge (or to take advantage of the brand) without
> actually subscribing or forwarding our aims. Wikimedia has broad aims, but a
> reasonably narrow focus, and that makes the movement hard for some to
> digest.
<snip>

Yes to everything about this email,


I should absolutely clarify that when I have been using the phrase
"Part of the Wikimedia Movement", that is entirely so people will say
"Hey, we shouldn't use that name in that way!".   I concur
wholeheartedly.    Such use would be a major brand experimentation for
no good reason.

I just say "Wikimedia Movement" because that's the name I have in my
head that explains the concept to this audience--  but actual name
MUST  change before it's put in use by third-party-projects.

Alternate brand with gradual membership, as you suggest, is the clear winner.

As for the name-- this looks like a job for....     experts.

Alec

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Re: roadmap for WM affiliation ; a name for self-identified affiliation

Thomas Morton
Good :) I'm glad I am reading your ideas right.


> As for the name-- this looks like a job for....     experts.


Perhaps - though with that said when I am programming it is often my
only-slightly-technically minded work colleages who come up with ideas for
the most effective solution.

We could at least brainstorm some ideas?

Tom
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