update: wikipedia.org portal

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update: wikipedia.org portal

Deb Tankersley
Hello,

The Discovery Team recently added descriptive text to the Wikipedia.org
page footer in order to give visitors a better idea of what the sister wiki
projects are really all about. Check it out at www.wikipedia.org or view a
mobile screen capture here
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Descriptive-text_sister_projects-wikipedia_footer_mobile.png>
.

We also wrapped up a quick, one question survey that ran for a week on the
portal to determine how visitors arrive at the page. The results showed
that many of the visitors arrive by clicking on a bookmarked link or by
typing in 'wikipedia' in their browser. We had many encouraging and
uplifting comments as well - see the full results here
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_Portal_Survey_-_May_2016.pdf>
.

In the coming weeks and months we'll be reaching out to many of those
survey takers who graciously provided their name and email addresses to
engage in deeper conversations on how they use the portal and Wikipedia in
general.

As always, more detailed information is available on wiki for the Wikipedia
Portal <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal> and A/B testing
<https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal_A/B_testing>.

On behalf of our happy little Wikipedia.org Portal team,

Deb
--
Deb Tankersley
Product Manager, Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

MZMcBride-2
Deborah Tankersley wrote:
>The Discovery Team recently added descriptive text to the Wikipedia.org
>page footer in order to give visitors a better idea of what the sister
>wiki projects are really all about. Check it out at www.wikipedia.org
>[...]

Hi Deb,

The descriptive texts don't seem great. Some are inconsistent and at least
one is potentially misleading. Some notes:

* "Free Dictionary" instead of "Free dictionary" for Wiktionary.
* Starting with "Free" for eight of the projects, but then using a
  different pattern for the others (e.g., "The free library").
* Meta-Wiki is "Our community site"? Huh? What does that suggest about the
  other projects? Are they not community sites?
* The descriptive texts are only available in English.

The Wikimedia (Foundation) logo is bizarrely in black and white. Why?

It's frustrating and annoying that your happy team hijacked this portal,
and only this portal, from the Meta-Wiki community that maintained it for
many years. Your actions have resulted in other portals such as
www.wiktionary.org falling out of sync with www.wikipedia.org. I wonder
how much community involvement and collaboration there is now that your
team has wrongfully seized ownership of this page.

MZMcBride



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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Neil Patel Quinn
On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 4:07 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi Deb,
>
> The descriptive texts don't seem great. Some are inconsistent and at least
> one is potentially misleading. Some notes:
>
> * "Free Dictionary" instead of "Free dictionary" for Wiktionary.
> * Starting with "Free" for eight of the projects, but then using a
>   different pattern for the others (e.g., "The free library").
> * Meta-Wiki is "Our community site"? Huh? What does that suggest about the
>   other projects? Are they not community sites?
> * The descriptive texts are only available in English.
>
> The Wikimedia (Foundation) logo is bizarrely in black and white. Why?
>

These seem like reasonable comments, if expressed in rather hostile terms.

Your actions have resulted in other portals such as
> www.wiktionary.org falling out of sync with www.wikipedia.org.


This doesn't seem so reasonable. Wikipedia.org gets 12 million pageviews a
day. How much does wiktionary.org get? Maybe a thousandth of that? So it
makes sense that they get different levels of attention.


> It's frustrating and annoying that your happy team hijacked this portal,
> and only this portal, from the Meta-Wiki community that maintained it for
> many years.  I wonder
> how much community involvement and collaboration there is now that your
> team has wrongfully seized ownership of this page.
>

I loosely followed some of the discussion around the switch, and while
there may be legitimate criticisms of it, calling it a "hijacking" and a
"seizure" is absurd and inappropriate.
--
Neil P. Quinn <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Neil_P._Quinn-WMF>,
product analyst
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Purodha Blissenbach
On 21.05.2016 00:24, Neil P. Quinn wrote:
> On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 4:07 PM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> * Meta-Wiki is "Our community site"? Huh? What does that suggest about
>> the
>>   other projects? Are they not community sites?

Coordination site.
Coordination site between projects.
Inter-project Coordination site.
Our coordination site.
...

Purodha

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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Quim Gil-2
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
Hi,

On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 1:07 AM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's frustrating and annoying that your happy team hijacked this portal...

(snip)


Hostility and anger are not welcomed in this mailing list, neither in the
rest of Wikimedia spaces. Any problems can be reported and explained in a
respectful and even friendly way. The topics you are exposing in this
thread are no exception.

Please read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Expected_behavior for more
thoughts about keeping our communities respectful, welcoming, and friendly.
If you want to discuss my reply, please use the discussion page of the URL
above, or reply to me directly. Let's keep this thread on-topic about the
update to the www.wikipedia.org portal. Thank you.

--
Quim Gil
Engineering Community Manager @ Wikimedia Foundation
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Qgil
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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Derk-Jan Hartman
In reply to this post by Deb Tankersley
I like the addition of the descriptive subtitles. But I would suggest taking them to meta to settle on what they should be exactly, and also then documenting them (including arguments) to make sure that they can be used consistently throughout the projects.

I was wondering about the colors. Have we considered the MediaWiki/OOjs UI color theme already. In my opinion the portal feels more cologneblue than Vector right now..

Also, I do wonder a bit about the consistency of the portals and the lack of options for reuse of these improvements by other portals, and I personally think it would be great to start expanding parts of the development to other portals now.
I think it would be wonderful if we could create a pipeline of reusable elements among the portals, that allows for some consistency, but trying to avoid blandness and uniformity. Simple things like a library of Less variables usable by all portal pages can mean a lot for these kinds of efforts and I'd love to see some attention devoted to that, so that other portal pages can benefit.

For community participation, I also have some ideas:
1: There is no README.md
2: Make sure that it's easy to test the master version.
The great thing about github for instance is that you can do tricks like:
https://cdn.rawgit.com/wikimedia/portals/master/prod/wikipedia.org/index.html
That's powerful to be able to preview straight from a git repo. If you have links like that to the readme/meta page.
3: Update https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_portals <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_portals>

DJ

> On 20 mei 2016, at 18:45, Deborah Tankersley <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> The Discovery Team recently added descriptive text to the Wikipedia.org
> page footer in order to give visitors a better idea of what the sister wiki
> projects are really all about. Check it out at www.wikipedia.org or view a
> mobile screen capture here
> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Descriptive-text_sister_projects-wikipedia_footer_mobile.png>
> .
>
> We also wrapped up a quick, one question survey that ran for a week on the
> portal to determine how visitors arrive at the page. The results showed
> that many of the visitors arrive by clicking on a bookmarked link or by
> typing in 'wikipedia' in their browser. We had many encouraging and
> uplifting comments as well - see the full results here
> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_Portal_Survey_-_May_2016.pdf>
> .
>
> In the coming weeks and months we'll be reaching out to many of those
> survey takers who graciously provided their name and email addresses to
> engage in deeper conversations on how they use the portal and Wikipedia in
> general.
>
> As always, more detailed information is available on wiki for the Wikipedia
> Portal <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal> and A/B testing
> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal_A/B_testing>.
>
> On behalf of our happy little Wikipedia.org Portal team,
>
> Deb
> --
> Deb Tankersley
> Product Manager, Discovery
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Purodha Blissenbach
On the long run, I think, these portals and their texts should
be translatable. Browser settings determining the target language.
Looking forward to have them on translatewiki.net !

Purodha


On 21.05.2016 13:52, Derk-Jan Hartman wrote:

> I like the addition of the descriptive subtitles. But I would suggest
> taking them to meta to settle on what they should be exactly, and also
> then documenting them (including arguments) to make sure that they can
> be used consistently throughout the projects.
>
> I was wondering about the colors. Have we considered the
> MediaWiki/OOjs UI color theme already. In my opinion the portal feels
> more cologneblue than Vector right now..
>
> Also, I do wonder a bit about the consistency of the portals and the
> lack of options for reuse of these improvements by other portals, and
> I personally think it would be great to start expanding parts of the
> development to other portals now.
> I think it would be wonderful if we could create a pipeline of
> reusable elements among the portals, that allows for some consistency,
> but trying to avoid blandness and uniformity. Simple things like a
> library of Less variables usable by all portal pages can mean a lot
> for these kinds of efforts and I'd love to see some attention devoted
> to that, so that other portal pages can benefit.
>
> For community participation, I also have some ideas:
> 1: There is no README.md
> 2: Make sure that it's easy to test the master version.
> The great thing about github for instance is that you can do tricks
> like:
> https://cdn.rawgit.com/wikimedia/portals/master/prod/wikipedia.org/index.html
> That's powerful to be able to preview straight from a git repo. If you
> have links like that to the readme/meta page.
> 3: Update https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_portals
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_portals>
>
> DJ
>
>> On 20 mei 2016, at 18:45, Deborah Tankersley
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> The Discovery Team recently added descriptive text to the
>> Wikipedia.org
>> page footer in order to give visitors a better idea of what the sister
>> wiki
>> projects are really all about. Check it out at www.wikipedia.org or
>> view a
>> mobile screen capture here
>> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Descriptive-text_sister_projects-wikipedia_footer_mobile.png>
>> .
>>
>> We also wrapped up a quick, one question survey that ran for a week on
>> the
>> portal to determine how visitors arrive at the page. The results
>> showed
>> that many of the visitors arrive by clicking on a bookmarked link or
>> by
>> typing in 'wikipedia' in their browser. We had many encouraging and
>> uplifting comments as well - see the full results here
>> <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_Portal_Survey_-_May_2016.pdf>
>> .
>>
>> In the coming weeks and months we'll be reaching out to many of those
>> survey takers who graciously provided their name and email addresses
>> to
>> engage in deeper conversations on how they use the portal and
>> Wikipedia in
>> general.
>>
>> As always, more detailed information is available on wiki for the
>> Wikipedia
>> Portal <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal> and A/B
>> testing
>> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal_A/B_testing>.
>>
>> On behalf of our happy little Wikipedia.org Portal team,
>>
>> Deb
>> --
>> Deb Tankersley
>> Product Manager, Discovery
>> Wikimedia Foundation
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: [Translators-l] update: wikipedia.org portal

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Purodha Blissenbach, 21/05/2016 14:13:
> On the long run, I think, these portals and their texts should
> be translatable. Browser settings determining the target language.
> Looking forward to have them on translatewiki.net !

Adding English-only text to the Wikipedia portal is unacceptable.
Special powers on a Wikimedia domain must not be used to contradict and
impoverish the Wikimedia mission. The portal seize by a small WMF clique
has shown its failure and should immediately be reversed, as the
Meta-Wiki administrators have proven to be more competent.

Nemo

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Re: [Wikitech-ambassadors] [Translators-l] update: wikipedia.org portal

Gergő Tisza
On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 6:58 PM, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Purodha Blissenbach, 21/05/2016 14:13:
>
>> On the long run, I think, these portals and their texts should
>> be translatable. Browser settings determining the target language.
>> Looking forward to have them on translatewiki.net !
>>
>
> Adding English-only text to the Wikipedia portal is unacceptable. Special
> powers on a Wikimedia domain must not be used to contradict and impoverish
> the Wikimedia mission. The portal seize by a small WMF clique has shown its
> failure and should immediately be reversed, as the Meta-Wiki administrators
> have proven to be more competent.
>

Folks, the horse carcass is starting to stink. Time to stop, drop and back
away.
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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

rupert THURNER-2
In reply to this post by Quim Gil-2
On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 1:07 AM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> It's frustrating and annoying that your happy team hijacked this portal...
> (snip)
> Hostility and anger are not welcomed in this mailing list, neither in the
> rest of Wikimedia spaces. Any problems can be reported and explained in a
> respectful and even friendly way. The topics you are exposing in this
> thread are no exception.
>
> Please read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Expected_behavior for more
> thoughts about keeping our communities respectful, welcoming, and friendly.

quim, i would not be angry if you would show a little bit more empathy
towards a client, a volunteer. if mzmcbride is right and there is a
well established procedure to change this page which was not followed,
the person not following might read the "expected behaviour" page.
putting the blame on the person harrassed/frustrated (mzmcbride), not
on the harrasser (whoever changed the page) seems not a nice move in
that case.

for the description of meta, I think it is quite misleading. Meta is
administrative, about other sites. not "the community site". not so
ideal i find also that this page then would be english only without
language links.

best,
rupert

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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Vi to
+1

Vito

Il 21/05/2016 21:01, rupert THURNER ha scritto:

> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 1:07 AM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>> It's frustrating and annoying that your happy team hijacked this portal...
>> (snip)
>> Hostility and anger are not welcomed in this mailing list, neither in the
>> rest of Wikimedia spaces. Any problems can be reported and explained in a
>> respectful and even friendly way. The topics you are exposing in this
>> thread are no exception.
>>
>> Please read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Expected_behavior for more
>> thoughts about keeping our communities respectful, welcoming, and friendly.
> quim, i would not be angry if you would show a little bit more empathy
> towards a client, a volunteer. if mzmcbride is right and there is a
> well established procedure to change this page which was not followed,
> the person not following might read the "expected behaviour" page.
> putting the blame on the person harrassed/frustrated (mzmcbride), not
> on the harrasser (whoever changed the page) seems not a nice move in
> that case.
>
> for the description of meta, I think it is quite misleading. Meta is
> administrative, about other sites. not "the community site". not so
> ideal i find also that this page then would be english only without
> language links.
>
> best,
> rupert
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l


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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Derk-Jan Hartman
-329053810923u53409 everyone

DJ

> On 21 mei 2016, at 21:11, Vituzzu <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> +1
>
> Vito
>
> Il 21/05/2016 21:01, rupert THURNER ha scritto:
>> On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 1:07 AM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>>> It's frustrating and annoying that your happy team hijacked this portal...
>>> (snip)
>>> Hostility and anger are not welcomed in this mailing list, neither in the
>>> rest of Wikimedia spaces. Any problems can be reported and explained in a
>>> respectful and even friendly way. The topics you are exposing in this
>>> thread are no exception.
>>>
>>> Please read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Expected_behavior for more
>>> thoughts about keeping our communities respectful, welcoming, and friendly.
>> quim, i would not be angry if you would show a little bit more empathy
>> towards a client, a volunteer. if mzmcbride is right and there is a
>> well established procedure to change this page which was not followed,
>> the person not following might read the "expected behaviour" page.
>> putting the blame on the person harrassed/frustrated (mzmcbride), not
>> on the harrasser (whoever changed the page) seems not a nice move in
>> that case.
>>
>> for the description of meta, I think it is quite misleading. Meta is
>> administrative, about other sites. not "the community site". not so
>> ideal i find also that this page then would be english only without
>> language links.
>>
>> best,
>> rupert
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikitech-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l

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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

John Erling Blad
In reply to this post by Deb Tankersley
Good idea, please add the messages on TranslateWiki.
Preferably after some of the proposed fixes.
Thanks!

On Fri, May 20, 2016 at 6:45 PM, Deborah Tankersley <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> The Discovery Team recently added descriptive text to the Wikipedia.org
> page footer in order to give visitors a better idea of what the sister wiki
> projects are really all about. Check it out at www.wikipedia.org or view a
> mobile screen capture here
> <
> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/File:Descriptive-text_sister_projects-wikipedia_footer_mobile.png
> >
> .
>
> We also wrapped up a quick, one question survey that ran for a week on the
> portal to determine how visitors arrive at the page. The results showed
> that many of the visitors arrive by clicking on a bookmarked link or by
> typing in 'wikipedia' in their browser. We had many encouraging and
> uplifting comments as well - see the full results here
> <
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipedia_Portal_Survey_-_May_2016.pdf
> >
> .
>
> In the coming weeks and months we'll be reaching out to many of those
> survey takers who graciously provided their name and email addresses to
> engage in deeper conversations on how they use the portal and Wikipedia in
> general.
>
> As always, more detailed information is available on wiki for the Wikipedia
> Portal <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal> and A/B
> testing
> <https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal_A/B_testing>.
>
> On behalf of our happy little Wikipedia.org Portal team,
>
> Deb
> --
> Deb Tankersley
> Product Manager, Discovery
> Wikimedia Foundation
> _______________________________________________
> Wikitech-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Quim Gil-2
Quim Gil wrote:

>On Sat, May 21, 2016 at 1:07 AM, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> It's frustrating and annoying that your happy team hijacked this
>>portal...
>
>(snip)
>
>Hostility and anger are not welcomed in this mailing list, neither in the
>rest of Wikimedia spaces. Any problems can be reported and explained in a
>respectful and even friendly way. The topics you are exposing in this
>thread are no exception.

I expressed frustration and annoyance. Those aren't the same as hostility
or anger. And there's nothing wrong with being angry sometimes. Sometimes
people do stupid things and anger is the most appropriate (or at least the
most natural) reaction to have.

>Please read https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Expected_behavior for more
>thoughts about keeping our communities respectful, welcoming, and
>friendly. If you want to discuss my reply, please use the discussion page
>of the URL above, or reply to me directly. Let's keep this thread
>on-topic about the update to the www.wikipedia.org portal. Thank you.

No, you don't get to both start and end a tangent. You're as capable as
anyone of starting a new thread and you chose not to.

rupert THURNER wrote:
>quim, i would not be angry if you would show a little bit more empathy
>towards a client, a volunteer. if mzmcbride is right and there is a
>well established procedure to change this page which was not followed,
>the person not following might read the "expected behaviour" page.

Project portals such as www.wikipedia.org were managed on Meta-Wiki:
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_portals>. I believe most of the
portals continue to be managed on Meta-Wiki, with the exception of
www.wikipedia.org; background: <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T110070>.

MZMcBride



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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

MZMcBride-2
In reply to this post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Derk-Jan Hartman wrote:
>I like the addition of the descriptive subtitles. But I would suggest
>taking them to meta to settle on what they should be exactly, and also
>then documenting them (including arguments) to make sure that they can be
>used consistently throughout the projects.

Meta-Wiki already has this template, used on its main page:
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Main_Page/Sisterprojects/en>.
Though some of the text there isn't great either.

I agree with most of what you wrote in your reply. We should either move
all of the project portals into Gerrit/Git and implement server-side
features such as serving translated output and including dynamic counts.
Or we should move www.wikipedia.org back to Meta-Wiki and continue to
serve it from a wiki page. The current hybrid situation of having only
www.wikipedia.org served by Gerrit/Git and not being able to, for example,
share code between the project portals, is terrible.

MZMcBride



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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

rupert THURNER-2
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
MZMcBride wrote:

> rupert THURNER wrote:
>>quim, i would not be angry if you would show a little bit more empathy
>>towards a client, a volunteer. if mzmcbride is right and there is a
>>well established procedure to change this page which was not followed,
>>the person not following might read the "expected behaviour" page.
>
> Project portals such as www.wikipedia.org were managed on Meta-Wiki:
> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_portals>. I believe most of the
> portals continue to be managed on Meta-Wiki, with the exception of
> www.wikipedia.org; background: <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T110070>.

ah, interesting. moving this to git sounds ok to me from a technical
viewpoint. i read
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal/Migration_to_gerrit.
despite that i am not clear how the current portal maintainers would
then activate a proposal e.g. from the discovery team?

rupert

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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

MZMcBride-2
rupert THURNER wrote:
>ah, interesting. moving this to git sounds ok to me from a technical
>viewpoint. i read
>https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Wikipedia.org_Portal/Migration_to_gerrit.
>despite that i am not clear how the current portal maintainers would
>then activate a proposal e.g. from the discovery team?

It turns out that the other portals were quietly moved to Git in November
2015. I filed <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T135929> about cleaning
up the project portals, since they're now being updated in two places, one
of which is a decoy, and the various wiki pages on Meta-Wiki don't seem to
reflect or acknowledge this at all.

MZMcBride



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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Dan Garry
In reply to this post by MZMcBride-2
MZMcBride,

The way that you have addressed Deb here is very unconstructive and
inappropriate. Your choice of language (e.g. "hijacked", "wrongfully
seized") is not conducive to a good working environment. Constructive
feedback is welcomed, but much of what you said here was not that. If you
are unable to be more constructive moving forward, my team will not respond
to your comments.

Regarding the descriptive text, the current situation on sister portals and
in other places was evaluated beforehand, which included looking at a relevant
template on Meta-Wiki
<https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Template:Main_Page/Sisterprojects/en>. As
you mentioned, the text there isn't great and many of the descriptions used
in different places are incredibly inconsistent with each other; therefore,
there was no golden standard to use. I agree that the descriptive text on
wikipedia.org for the sister projects could be changed further to improve
its consistency. The team will look into that.

Regarding the move of the portal to a git-based system, as I explained in
great detail in my 18 comments on T110070
<https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T110070>, this move was done in
partnership with Mxn, the primary maintainer of the portal in its previous
system. Mxn and I spoke in person about the portal at Wikimania 2015, which
was what really kicked this project off; I also mentioned that in my very
comment <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T110070#1568488> on that
T110070. I was also very clear in my comments on the task
<https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T110070#1653320> that we were
specifically trying to improve only wikipedia.org to keep our work
manageable and maintain cost effectiveness for our efforts.

There are some things that Discovery has done really well at since (and
because of) the migration, such as improving the performance of the page by
minifying <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minification_(programming)> the
JavaScript used on the page, and significantly increasing the clickthrough
rate
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Initial_Assessment_of_New_Wikipedia_Portal%27s_Search_Box_Deployment.pdf>
on the portal by improving the user experience of the box. There are some
things that we could've done better, like keeping the statistics on the
portal up-to-date. As mentioned above, constructive feedback is welcomed.

Dan

On 20 May 2016 at 16:07, MZMcBride <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Deborah Tankersley wrote:
> >The Discovery Team recently added descriptive text to the Wikipedia.org
> >page footer in order to give visitors a better idea of what the sister
> >wiki projects are really all about. Check it out at www.wikipedia.org
> >[...]
>
> Hi Deb,
>
> The descriptive texts don't seem great. Some are inconsistent and at least
> one is potentially misleading. Some notes:
>
> * "Free Dictionary" instead of "Free dictionary" for Wiktionary.
> * Starting with "Free" for eight of the projects, but then using a
>   different pattern for the others (e.g., "The free library").
> * Meta-Wiki is "Our community site"? Huh? What does that suggest about the
>   other projects? Are they not community sites?
> * The descriptive texts are only available in English.
>
> The Wikimedia (Foundation) logo is bizarrely in black and white. Why?
>
> It's frustrating and annoying that your happy team hijacked this portal,
> and only this portal, from the Meta-Wiki community that maintained it for
> many years. Your actions have resulted in other portals such as
> www.wiktionary.org falling out of sync with www.wikipedia.org. I wonder
> how much community involvement and collaboration there is now that your
> team has wrongfully seized ownership of this page.
>
> MZMcBride
>
>
>
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> Wikitech-l mailing list
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> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l




--
Dan Garry
Lead Product Manager, Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Dan Garry
In reply to this post by Derk-Jan Hartman
Hey DJ,

Thanks for the feedback! Responses in-line.

On 21 May 2016 at 04:52, Derk-Jan Hartman <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> I like the addition of the descriptive subtitles. But I would suggest
> taking them to meta to settle on what they should be exactly, and also then
> documenting them (including arguments) to make sure that they can be used
> consistently throughout the projects.
>

I agree that some standardisation of the phrases used here would be useful.
I'll pass that feedback on to Communications, who I believe handles most of
these kinds of situations. In the mean time, I think Discovery can take a
quick pass on the phrases that are being used on the portal to make them a
bit more consistent.


> I was wondering about the colors. Have we considered the MediaWiki/OOjs UI
> color theme already. In my opinion the portal feels more cologneblue than
> Vector right now..
>

I can see what you mean. A lot of the styles of the new elements have been
made to fit the old style of the page. I'm not a designer, so I don't know
specifically what to recommend to the team here, but I think they can keep
this in mind for the future.

Also, I do wonder a bit about the consistency of the portals and the lack

> of options for reuse of these improvements by other portals, and I
> personally think it would be great to start expanding parts of the
> development to other portals now.
> I think it would be wonderful if we could create a pipeline of reusable
> elements among the portals, that allows for some consistency, but trying to
> avoid blandness and uniformity. Simple things like a library of Less
> variables usable by all portal pages can mean a lot for these kinds of
> efforts and I'd love to see some attention devoted to that, so that other
> portal pages can benefit.
>

As explained in T110070#1653320
<https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T110070#1653320>, Discovery is not
actively maintaining the other portals. That said, I agree that trying to
get our code to a state where it's easily re-useable for other portals so
that interested people can migrate it over to the other portals would be
good to do. I filed T136151 <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T136151> to
track that work.


> For community participation, I also have some ideas:
> 1: There is no README.md
>

Good point. I saw you filed T135902
<https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T135902> and T135903
<https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T135903> for this. Thanks! The licensing
question is somewhat complicated given the history of the portals; we will
need to consult with Legal on this to make sure we get it right.


> 2: Make sure that it's easy to test the master version.

The great thing about github for instance is that you can do tricks like:
>
> https://cdn.rawgit.com/wikimedia/portals/master/prod/wikipedia.org/index.html
> That's powerful to be able to preview straight from a git repo. If you
> have links like that to the readme/meta page.
>

I'll pass this feedback on to the engineers working on the project.


> 3: Update https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_portals <
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Project_portals>
>

I wasn't aware of this page. I'll pass it on to Chris Koerner, Discovery's
community liaison, so he can look at updating it.

Thanks!

Dan

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Dan Garry
Lead Product Manager, Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
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Re: update: wikipedia.org portal

Dan Garry
In reply to this post by Purodha Blissenbach
Hey Purodha,

On 21 May 2016 at 05:13, Purodha Blissenbach <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On the long run, I think, these portals and their texts should
> be translatable. Browser settings determining the target language.
> Looking forward to have them on translatewiki.net !
>

I agree that localising these strings would be helpful and in-line with our
practices. That's definitely something that we're interested in doing, and
we're going to be doing an investigation on that soon. We're hoping it'll
be fairly straightforward to get this done... but if it's not, we may need
to deprioritise the work. We'll see.

Thanks!

Dan

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Dan Garry
Lead Product Manager, Discovery
Wikimedia Foundation
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