visa denied ... what to do?

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visa denied ... what to do?

rupert THURNER-2
hi,

what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?

rupert.

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

James Hare
The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late
to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.

James

On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> hi,
>
> what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
> for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
>
> rupert.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

theo10011
In reply to this post by rupert THURNER-2
On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 6:19 AM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:
hi,

what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?

Not a lot. Embassy are at their discretion to reject anyone they want. Depending on the country, they do usually cite a reason, or hand some rejection letter with an abstract reasoning. There used to be a process to challenge that, but it differs from country to country and is usually quite lengthy, and legal.

Re-application too, might not change much. Unless, the exact reason for the rejection are addressed, perhaps more documents, or support provided by sponsors. But at this stage, it might be too late.

Regards
Theo

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

rupert THURNER-2
In reply to this post by James Hare
would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to
have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of
invitation, and have some right to know what happened?

On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late
> to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
>
> James
>
> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> hi,
>>
>> what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
>> for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
>>
>> rupert.
>>

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

James Hare
No.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:55 PM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:

> would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to
> have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of
> invitation, and have some right to know what happened?
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late
>> to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
>>> for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
>>>
>>> rupert.
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

Orsolya Gyenes
In reply to this post by rupert THURNER-2
Can you tell us what the Embassy indicated on denying?

~Orsolya


2012/6/24 rupert THURNER <[hidden email]>
hi,

what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?

rupert.

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

Richard Symonds-3
In reply to this post by James Hare
I think what James means to say is that the 2012 Wikimania team has no special right to know what's going on with visa applications. I'm not sure what support they have set up for failed applicants.

In my experience, going through the US Embassy for a visa is expensive and time-consuming if you're not from a country with close relations with the US. The only recourse is to apply again and hope that you meet the requirements. It was difficult (and expensive) enough getting visas sorted in London; I can't imagine that the Ghanan embassy is less strict about it or any cheaper.

I'm not sure what support or advice the Wikimania team can offer, although they have the State Department's E-Diplomacy office as an official partner, so they might have some connections there. That would be up to them, though. 

Richard Symonds


On 24 June 2012 18:58, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:
No.

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:55 PM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:

> would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to
> have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of
> invitation, and have some right to know what happened?
>
> On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late
>> to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
>>
>> James
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> hi,
>>>
>>> what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
>>> for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
>>>
>>> rupert.
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

James Hare
And I have indeed heard from the horse's mouth that there is nothing
anyone can do to intervene with an ongoing visa application. Not even
within the State Department. The only recourse is to apply again, as
unfortunate as that is.

What I recommend for everyone is that when applying for a nonimmigrant
visa, be sure to demonstrate every possible reason why you only want
to come to the U.S. *temporarily* and then return to your life back
home. They feel more confident letting you into the country if they
know that you have firm ties to your country such as career, family,
property/lease, etc. that you would be leaving behind to try to live
in the U.S. permanently. And, much to my surprise, it's not enough to
explain that your entire trip is paid for, as none of us actually have
the legal power to force you to go home. It is a bizarre and
unfriendly system.

James

On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:18 PM, Richard Symonds
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think what James means to say is that the 2012 Wikimania team has no
> special right to know what's going on with visa applications. I'm not sure
> what support they have set up for failed applicants.
>
> In my experience, going through the US Embassy for a visa is expensive and
> time-consuming if you're not from a country with close relations with the
> US. The only recourse is to apply again and hope that you meet the
> requirements. It was difficult (and expensive) enough getting visas sorted
> in London; I can't imagine that the Ghanan embassy is less strict about it
> or any cheaper.
>
> I'm not sure what support or advice the Wikimania team can offer, although
> they have the State Department's E-Diplomacy office as an official partner,
> so they might have some connections there. That would be up to them,
> though.
>
> Richard Symonds
>
>
> On 24 June 2012 18:58, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:55 PM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to
>> > have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of
>> > invitation, and have some right to know what happened?
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late
>> >> to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
>> >>
>> >> James
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
>> >>> for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
>> >>>
>> >>> rupert.
>> >>>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

rupert THURNER-2
In reply to this post by Richard Symonds-3
i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
1. get it to the embassies beforehand
    e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with
    the embassy
3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation
    last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood
    that single voyagers do not have the experience, and
    wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close
    to the start.

maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a
major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host
wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised -
especially visa and hotel rates ;)

my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two
of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who
work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses.  you can even
visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and
helpful.

rupert.

On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 8:18 PM, Richard Symonds
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I think what James means to say is that the 2012 Wikimania team has no
> special right to know what's going on with visa applications. I'm not sure
> what support they have set up for failed applicants.
>
> In my experience, going through the US Embassy for a visa is expensive and
> time-consuming if you're not from a country with close relations with the
> US. The only recourse is to apply again and hope that you meet the
> requirements. It was difficult (and expensive) enough getting visas sorted
> in London; I can't imagine that the Ghanan embassy is less strict about it
> or any cheaper.
>
> I'm not sure what support or advice the Wikimania team can offer, although
> they have the State Department's E-Diplomacy office as an official partner,
> so they might have some connections there. That would be up to them,
> though.
>
> Richard Symonds
>
>
> On 24 June 2012 18:58, James Hare <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2012, at 1:55 PM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > would it be possible that you call the embassy what is going on, to
>> > have something like a "second opinion"? you wrote the letter of
>> > invitation, and have some right to know what happened?
>> >
>> > On Sun, Jun 24, 2012 at 2:51 AM, James Hare <[hidden email]>
>> > wrote:
>> >> The only recourse you have is to apply again, and it may be too late
>> >> to do that now that we're 18 days from the conference.
>> >>
>> >> James
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 8:49 PM, rupert THURNER
>> >> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> >>> hi,
>> >>>
>> >>> what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
>> >>> for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
>> >>>
>> >>> rupert.
>> >>>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Wikimania-l mailing list
>> > [hidden email]
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

Federico Leva (Nemo)
rupert THURNER, 24/06/2012 21:15:
> maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a
> major criteria for hosting wikimania?

When DC was selected, visa problems have been accepted as part of it.

Nemo

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

Thomas Dalton
In reply to this post by rupert THURNER-2
On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:

> i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
> 1. get it to the embassies beforehand
>    e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
> 2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with
>    the embassy
> 3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation
>    last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood
>    that single voyagers do not have the experience, and
>    wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close
>    to the start.
>
> maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a
> major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host
> wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised -
> especially visa and hotel rates ;)
>
> my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two
> of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who
> work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses.  you can even
> visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and
> helpful.

If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really
anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the
rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a
reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.

The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can
do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the
Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much
the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa
being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening
and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what
the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help
prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or
that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over
those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the
individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would
actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant
to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the
only person that can.

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

rupert THURNER-2


Am 24.06.2012 21:41 schrieb "Thomas Dalton" <[hidden email]>:
>
> On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
> > 1. get it to the embassies beforehand
> >    e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
> > 2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with
> >    the embassy
> > 3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation
> >    last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood
> >    that single voyagers do not have the experience, and
> >    wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close
> >    to the start.
> >
> > maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a
> > major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host
> > wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised -
> > especially visa and hotel rates ;)
> >
> > my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two
> > of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who
> > work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses.  you can even
> > visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and
> > helpful.
>
> If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really
> anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the
> rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a
> reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
>
> The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can
> do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the
> Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much
> the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa
> being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening
> and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what
> the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help
> prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or
> that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over
> those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the
> individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would
> actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant
> to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the
> only person that

A very good comment. To show that the organizers want the person to go there is key. An inexperienced 22 year old, who has at least some computer education, never abroad, no special family ties is the perfect candidate to have difficulties to argue. Its the perfect candidate not to return at the same time he is the prototypical wikimedian.

We all agree that people from countries where there is not yet an established community are desired to get included, so my wish would be to find better means of support so such a person does not get blocked for visa issues.

The big difference between some conference and wikimedia conferences is the community who is able to check this persons contribution and as well putting up a social pressure that a supported person goes back. But some officer in an embassy in a country without wikimedia community might underestimate this and, in doubt, refuse the visa. Imo it is essential to directly talk to the embassy.

Rupert.


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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

Shujen Chang
Could you tell us the detail in your visa interview (what the officer asked and how you replied), it maybe help we analyse the reason why you was rejected and give you some advises in your next application.
Besides that, you really have to apply for it AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, because there's no much time! If you had applied it earlier, there would be more time to deal with the rejection. 

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:35 PM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:


Am <a href="tel:24.06.2012%2021" value="+12406201221" target="_blank">24.06.2012 21:41 schrieb "Thomas Dalton" <[hidden email]>:


>
> On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
> > 1. get it to the embassies beforehand
> >    e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
> > 2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with
> >    the embassy
> > 3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation
> >    last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood
> >    that single voyagers do not have the experience, and
> >    wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close
> >    to the start.
> >
> > maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a
> > major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host
> > wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised -
> > especially visa and hotel rates ;)
> >
> > my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two
> > of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who
> > work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses.  you can even
> > visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and
> > helpful.
>
> If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really
> anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the
> rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a
> reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
>
> The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can
> do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the
> Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much
> the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa
> being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening
> and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what
> the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help
> prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or
> that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over
> those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the
> individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would
> actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant
> to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the
> only person that

A very good comment. To show that the organizers want the person to go there is key. An inexperienced 22 year old, who has at least some computer education, never abroad, no special family ties is the perfect candidate to have difficulties to argue. Its the perfect candidate not to return at the same time he is the prototypical wikimedian.

We all agree that people from countries where there is not yet an established community are desired to get included, so my wish would be to find better means of support so such a person does not get blocked for visa issues.

The big difference between some conference and wikimedia conferences is the community who is able to check this persons contribution and as well putting up a social pressure that a supported person goes back. But some officer in an embassy in a country without wikimedia community might underestimate this and, in doubt, refuse the visa. Imo it is essential to directly talk to the embassy.

Rupert.


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--
Sincerely,
Shujen Chang


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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

Harel Cain
In reply to this post by rupert THURNER-2
I guess it's also a matter of how formal or informal the working relations inside a country's ministry of foreign affairs are.
Last year for Wikimania in Haifa we ended up forming direct, personal and often rather informal relations with officials both in the consular section of the ministry HQ in Jerusalem and in consulates abroad, and this way managed to appeal or push forward visa issuance problems.

But this is really an organizational/cultural matter and maybe this is a total faux-pas in the American State Department.


Harel Cain
Wikimania 2011 team

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 10:35 AM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:


Am <a href="tel:24.06.2012%2021" value="+12406201221" target="_blank">24.06.2012 21:41 schrieb "Thomas Dalton" <[hidden email]>:


>
> On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
> > 1. get it to the embassies beforehand
> >    e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
> > 2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with
> >    the embassy
> > 3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation
> >    last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood
> >    that single voyagers do not have the experience, and
> >    wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close
> >    to the start.
> >
> > maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a
> > major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host
> > wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised -
> > especially visa and hotel rates ;)
> >
> > my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two
> > of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who
> > work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses.  you can even
> > visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and
> > helpful.
>
> If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really
> anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the
> rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a
> reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
>
> The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can
> do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the
> Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much
> the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa
> being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening
> and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what
> the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help
> prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or
> that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over
> those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the
> individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would
> actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant
> to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the
> only person that

A very good comment. To show that the organizers want the person to go there is key. An inexperienced 22 year old, who has at least some computer education, never abroad, no special family ties is the perfect candidate to have difficulties to argue. Its the perfect candidate not to return at the same time he is the prototypical wikimedian.

We all agree that people from countries where there is not yet an established community are desired to get included, so my wish would be to find better means of support so such a person does not get blocked for visa issues.

The big difference between some conference and wikimedia conferences is the community who is able to check this persons contribution and as well putting up a social pressure that a supported person goes back. But some officer in an embassy in a country without wikimedia community might underestimate this and, in doubt, refuse the visa. Imo it is essential to directly talk to the embassy.

Rupert.


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Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

HJ Mitchell
In reply to this post by Shujen Chang
No, for crying out loud don't do that! This list is public, which means any man and his dog can read what you've written if he puts the right search terms into Google. Posting details of what was asked in a private interview and how those questions were responded to is not appropriate on a public list.

James has said that there is nothing more the organisers can do because the final decision rests with the embassy, so asking for him to intervene isn't likely to be productive, because he can't.

I sympathise, but unfortunately the only recourse is to apply again, and follow the advice you've been given about proving your ties to your home country and giving them reasons why you would want to return home and not stay in the United States illegally after Wikimania. 

It's a frustrating inevitability when organising an international conference that, no matter where you hold it, there will always be at least a few countries from which people will have difficulty with visas. The amount that the organisers can do to help may vary from country to country, but there will always be a limit.
 
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From: Shujen Chang <[hidden email]>
To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, 25 June 2012, 9:38
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] visa denied ... what to do?

Could you tell us the detail in your visa interview (what the officer asked and how you replied), it maybe help we analyse the reason why you was rejected and give you some advises in your next application.
Besides that, you really have to apply for it AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, because there's no much time! If you had applied it earlier, there would be more time to deal with the rejection. 

On Mon, Jun 25, 2012 at 3:35 PM, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:

Am 24.06.2012 21:41 schrieb "Thomas Dalton" <[hidden email]>:

>
> On 24 June 2012 20:15, rupert THURNER <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > i would have expected two things, slightly more proactive:
> > 1. get it to the embassies beforehand
> >    e.g. write the invitation letter directly to the embassy
> > 2. have a clarification procedure in case of trouble with
> >    the embassy
> > 3. have an escalation path to the travel agency of the foundation
> >    last year wmf was very helpful ... and fully understood
> >    that single voyagers do not have the experience, and
> >    wikimania orgs do not have the capacity especially close
> >    to the start.
> >
> > maybe it would be possible to make the availability of such service a
> > major criteria for hosting wikimania? and some 50 year ban to host
> > wikimania, if a country fails to deliver what was promised -
> > especially visa and hotel rates ;)
> >
> > my personal experience with u.s. american embassies is (but only two
> > of them, one european, one african): there are actually people who
> > work there, they have phone numbers and email addresses.  you can even
> > visit them. the people i had contact to were exemplary welcoming and
> > helpful.
>
> If the embassy says "no", then the answer is "no". There isn't really
> anything anyone can do about it. If the embassy gave a reason for the
> rejection, then fix it and try again. If they didn't (and won't give a
> reason when contacted), then there's really nothing you can do.
>
> The organisers sent letters of invitation. That's really all they can
> do, since the visa is issued by the embassy to the individual and the
> Wikimania team aren't a party to any of that. There also isn't much
> the Wikimania team can do about any of the common reasons for a visa
> being rejected. They can confirm that the event is really happening
> and that the person really has said they plan to go to it (that's what
> the letter of invitation is for), but they can't do anything to help
> prove you're not going to do anything illegal while in the country or
> that you're going to go home afterwards. They have no control over
> those things and, in the majority of cases, they don't know the
> individual well enough to vouch for them (if such a vouching would
> actually help, which I'm not sure it would). It is up to the applicant
> to convince the embassy of those things because the applicant is the
> only person that
A very good comment. To show that the organizers want the person to go there is key. An inexperienced 22 year old, who has at least some computer education, never abroad, no special family ties is the perfect candidate to have difficulties to argue. Its the perfect candidate not to return at the same time he is the prototypical wikimedian.
We all agree that people from countries where there is not yet an established community are desired to get included, so my wish would be to find better means of support so such a person does not get blocked for visa issues.
The big difference between some conference and wikimedia conferences is the community who is able to check this persons contribution and as well putting up a social pressure that a supported person goes back. But some officer in an embassy in a country without wikimedia community might underestimate this and, in doubt, refuse the visa. Imo it is essential to directly talk to the embassy.
Rupert.

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

Ting Chen-2
In reply to this post by rupert THURNER-2
Hello Rupert,

the experience is that if an ambassy denies a visa (most probably
without any reason), there is nothing to do with it.

Greetings
Ting

On 24.06.2012 02:49, wrote rupert THURNER:

> hi,
>
> what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
> for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?
>
> rupert.
>
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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

stephen wanjau-2
Hello!

I was also denied the US Visa by the consular here in Kenya. As far as I understand, the embassy usually has some statistics of youths visiting the US and whether they usually return after their purported mission in the US is over.

Sadly, most unemployed vicenarians who request for conference Visas from Kenya usually end up as illegal immigrants in the US. So for my case I would say that I suffered due to the crime committed by others who went to the US before me. I provided the prerequisite documents as is required of me but that wouldn't change the decision of the consular officer.

Nonetheless, am happy that three Wikimedians from Kenya secured their Visas and they will be at Wikimania2012.

Hopefully, I will be in the next Wikimania.

Enjoy the conference and I would do my best to follow up on talks I was interested in attending on Youtube and the documentations wherever they will be on-line.

To the attendees, have a fruitful conference.

Cheers
Stephen.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Ting Chen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Rupert,

the experience is that if an ambassy denies a visa (most probably without any reason), there is nothing to do with it.

Greetings
Ting

On 24.06.2012 02:49, wrote rupert THURNER:

hi,

what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?

rupert.

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

stephen wanjau-2
Hello!

I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.

Al beit am happy that there shall be other Wikimedians from Kenya who will be at Wikimania 2012.

It is sad that the quality of the conference would be affected in the negative:(


My two cents.

regards,
Stephen
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 7:07 AM, Stephen Wanjau <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello!

I was also denied the US Visa by the consular here in Kenya. As far as I understand, the embassy usually has some statistics of youths visiting the US and whether they usually return after their purported mission in the US is over.

Sadly, most unemployed vicenarians who request for conference Visas from Kenya usually end up as illegal immigrants in the US. So for my case I would say that I suffered due to the crime committed by others who went to the US before me. I provided the prerequisite documents as is required of me but that wouldn't change the decision of the consular officer.

Nonetheless, am happy that three Wikimedians from Kenya secured their Visas and they will be at Wikimania2012.

Hopefully, I will be in the next Wikimania.

Enjoy the conference and I would do my best to follow up on talks I was interested in attending on Youtube and the documentations wherever they will be on-line.

To the attendees, have a fruitful conference.

Cheers
Stephen.


On Tue, Jun 26, 2012 at 10:51 AM, Ting Chen <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello Rupert,

the experience is that if an ambassy denies a visa (most probably without any reason), there is nothing to do with it.

Greetings
Ting

On 24.06.2012 02:49, wrote rupert THURNER:

hi,

what is the proceeding if somebody from ghana, africa, got the visa
for the wikimania denied at the us embassy in accra?

rupert.

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

Federico Leva (Nemo)
Stephen Wanjau, 04/07/2012 19:01:
> I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective
> attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on
> any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future
> Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.

This is not needed. Visa problems were very well known when the decision
has been made.

Nemo

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Re: visa denied ... what to do?

Deryck Chan
As a response to this thread and a few others, I've created this page on the WM2012 wiki:
http://wikimania2012.wikimedia.org/wiki/Visa_rejections
...in the hope that information gathered there will help future Wikimania organizers assists participants to get visas and clear the immigration process.

Deryck

On 4 July 2012 18:23, Federico Leva (Nemo) <[hidden email]> wrote:
Stephen Wanjau, 04/07/2012 19:01:

I wonder if there is a record somewhere that lists the prospective
attendees who didn’t attend Wikimania since they were denied Visa or on
any other grounds. Such a record would help us decide on future
Wikimania hosts with regards to easy of Visa acquaintance.

This is not needed. Visa problems were very well known when the decision has been made.

Nemo


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