wikipedia.de shut down

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
30 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

wikipedia.de shut down

Bryan Tong Minh
Apparently the German portal on wikipedia.de has been shut down after
a legal case. Is there any more information on this?
http://www.wikipedia.de/


Bryan

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Magnus Manske-2
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Bryan Tong Minh
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> Apparently the German portal on wikipedia.de has been shut down after
> a legal case. Is there any more information on this?
> http://www.wikipedia.de/

Apparently, some German communist politician was angry about something
in "his" article, so he got a court order to prevent forwarding from
wikipedia.de to de.wikipedia.org.

On his web page, above politician now says he won't proceed further
against the German chapter (who owns wikipedia.de), which might mean
the forwarding can be reestablished soon.

Magnus

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Effe iets anders
for the interested: *Keine weiteren juristischen Schritte gegen Wikipedia*
: http://www.lutz-heilmann.info/

2008/11/16 Magnus Manske <[hidden email]>

> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Bryan Tong Minh
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > Apparently the German portal on wikipedia.de has been shut down after
> > a legal case. Is there any more information on this?
> > http://www.wikipedia.de/
>
> Apparently, some German communist politician was angry about something
> in "his" article, so he got a court order to prevent forwarding from
> wikipedia.de to de.wikipedia.org.
>
> On his web page, above politician now says he won't proceed further
> against the German chapter (who owns wikipedia.de), which might mean
> the forwarding can be reestablished soon.
>
> Magnus
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Ian A. Holton
The controversy was about mentioning his past in the former East German
Stasi - something he had not told the truth about to the general public
during the election (according to the Wikipedia article and the sources
named, which amongst others is Der Spiegel). The information, and sources,
seem all very reliable and pass all criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia.

Techcrunch[1] also mentions claims of threats against ex-boyfriends - I
couldn't find any when I checked this morning, so they might have been
removed in accordance with policy.

This isn't the first time the German chapter has had an interim injunction
issued against them[2], but everytime the matter has been resolved in a
professional manner and the media have been very pro-Wiki.[3][4]

Ian
[[User:Poeloq]]

[1]
http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/11/16/german-politician-blocks-local-wikipedia/
[2] http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t28622.html
[3] http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number4.2/wikipedia
[4] http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/02/09/1323220.shtml



On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:50 PM, effe iets anders
<[hidden email]>wrote:

> for the interested: *Keine weiteren juristischen Schritte gegen Wikipedia*
> : http://www.lutz-heilmann.info/
>
> 2008/11/16 Magnus Manske <[hidden email]>
>
> > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Bryan Tong Minh
> > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > Apparently the German portal on wikipedia.de has been shut down after
> > > a legal case. Is there any more information on this?
> > > http://www.wikipedia.de/
> >
> > Apparently, some German communist politician was angry about something
> > in "his" article, so he got a court order to prevent forwarding from
> > wikipedia.de to de.wikipedia.org.
> >
> > On his web page, above politician now says he won't proceed further
> > against the German chapter (who owns wikipedia.de), which might mean
> > the forwarding can be reestablished soon.
> >
> > Magnus
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

David Gerard-2
2008/11/16 Ian A. Holton <[hidden email]>:

> This isn't the first time the German chapter has had an interim injunction
> issued against them[2], but everytime the matter has been resolved in a
> professional manner and the media have been very pro-Wiki.[3][4]
> [2] http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t28622.html
> [3] http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number4.2/wikipedia
> [4] http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/02/09/1323220.shtml


Donations to WMDE are apparently coming in very fast because of this:
http://wiwowo.blogspot.com/2008/11/internet-cannot-be-censured.html

I'm reluctant to advocate upset politicians as a fundraising tool, but ...


- d.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

David Gerard-2
2008/11/16 David Gerard <[hidden email]>:

> Donations to WMDE are apparently coming in very fast because of this:
> http://wiwowo.blogspot.com/2008/11/internet-cannot-be-censured.html
> I'm reluctant to advocate upset politicians as a fundraising tool, but ...


Here's the list. Dig the comments: https://secure.wikimedia.de/spenden/list.php


- d.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Bryan Tong Minh
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 6:04 PM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/11/16 David Gerard <[hidden email]>:
>
>> Donations to WMDE are apparently coming in very fast because of this:
>> http://wiwowo.blogspot.com/2008/11/internet-cannot-be-censured.html
>> I'm reluctant to advocate upset politicians as a fundraising tool, but ...
>
>
> Here's the list. Dig the comments: https://secure.wikimedia.de/spenden/list.php
>
>
> - d.
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>

26 thousand Euro in the last 40 hours. Normal figures appear to be
3000 EUR per day. That's quite impressive. I wonder whether there is
an actual net gain.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Thomas Dalton
> 26 thousand Euro in the last 40 hours. Normal figures appear to be
> 3000 EUR per day. That's quite impressive. I wonder whether there is
> an actual net gain.

Do we have statistics on how many people actually access the German
Wikipedia via the wikipedia.de domain? If it's not many, then there's
really no loss (although most of the donations are probably coming
from people seeing the temporary page, so there must be some people
using it!). I can't see how it could be enough to make it a net loss
overall - people can still find the site via google, etc., and the
page they've put up to replace the forwarding includes the URL anyway
(although they've avoided making it a link, for obvious reasons, but
hopefully most readers know what to do with a plain text URL!).

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Ian A. Holton
I don't have any statistics, but I would say the http://www.wikipedia.de is
the most common way of accessing Wikipedia in Germany.

Ian
[[User:Poeloq]]

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 1:45 AM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>wrote:

> > 26 thousand Euro in the last 40 hours. Normal figures appear to be
> > 3000 EUR per day. That's quite impressive. I wonder whether there is
> > an actual net gain.
>
> Do we have statistics on how many people actually access the German
> Wikipedia via the wikipedia.de domain? If it's not many, then there's
> really no loss (although most of the donations are probably coming
> from people seeing the temporary page, so there must be some people
> using it!). I can't see how it could be enough to make it a net loss
> overall - people can still find the site via google, etc., and the
> page they've put up to replace the forwarding includes the URL anyway
> (although they've avoided making it a link, for obvious reasons, but
> hopefully most readers know what to do with a plain text URL!).
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Ian A. Holton
BTW, reading the comments on the donations shows nicely the main motivation
for donating suddenly:

* Against censorship
* Against the former Stasi
* To benefit the growth of free knowledge

Ian

On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 6:31 AM, Ian A. Holton <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I don't have any statistics, but I would say the http://www.wikipedia.deis the most common way of accessing Wikipedia in Germany.
>
> Ian
> [[User:Poeloq]]
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 1:45 AM, Thomas Dalton <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
>> > 26 thousand Euro in the last 40 hours. Normal figures appear to be
>> > 3000 EUR per day. That's quite impressive. I wonder whether there is
>> > an actual net gain.
>>
>> Do we have statistics on how many people actually access the German
>> Wikipedia via the wikipedia.de domain? If it's not many, then there's
>> really no loss (although most of the donations are probably coming
>> from people seeing the temporary page, so there must be some people
>> using it!). I can't see how it could be enough to make it a net loss
>> overall - people can still find the site via google, etc., and the
>> page they've put up to replace the forwarding includes the URL anyway
>> (although they've avoided making it a link, for obvious reasons, but
>> hopefully most readers know what to do with a plain text URL!).
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> foundation-l mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>>
>
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Robert Rohde
In reply to this post by David Gerard-2
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:02 AM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/11/16 Ian A. Holton <[hidden email]>:
>
>> This isn't the first time the German chapter has had an interim injunction
>> issued against them[2], but everytime the matter has been resolved in a
>> professional manner and the media have been very pro-Wiki.[3][4]
>> [2] http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t28622.html
>> [3] http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number4.2/wikipedia
>> [4] http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/02/09/1323220.shtml
>
>
> Donations to WMDE are apparently coming in very fast because of this:
> http://wiwowo.blogspot.com/2008/11/internet-cannot-be-censured.html
>
> I'm reluctant to advocate upset politicians as a fundraising tool, but ...

In addition to the very large jump (+450%) in donations to the German
chapter, there was a small jump (+15%) in donations to the WMF.  Now
15% isn't a lot to hang a conclusion on, but I think it is still fair
to say that this political chicanery hasn't hurt WMF fundraising
efforts either.

-Robert Rohde

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Geoffrey Plourde
Who wants to go poke Mugabe, maybe we will get even more money?




________________________________
From: Robert Rohde <[hidden email]>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:22:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] wikipedia.de shut down

On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:02 AM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:

> 2008/11/16 Ian A. Holton <[hidden email]>:
>
>> This isn't the first time the German chapter has had an interim injunction
>> issued against them[2], but everytime the matter has been resolved in a
>> professional manner and the media have been very pro-Wiki.[3][4]
>> [2] http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t28622.html
>> [3] http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number4.2/wikipedia
>> [4] http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/02/09/1323220.shtml
>
>
> Donations to WMDE are apparently coming in very fast because of this:
> http://wiwowo.blogspot.com/2008/11/internet-cannot-be-censured.html
>
> I'm reluctant to advocate upset politicians as a fundraising tool, but ...

In addition to the very large jump (+450%) in donations to the German
chapter, there was a small jump (+15%) in donations to the WMF.  Now
15% isn't a lot to hang a conclusion on, but I think it is still fair
to say that this political chicanery hasn't hurt WMF fundraising
efforts either.

-Robert Rohde

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l



     
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

George William Herbert
On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Who wants to go poke Mugabe, maybe we will get even more money?


I appreciate the motivation, but please let's not go there.

The possible issues have some rather serious downsides, ranging from
"WMF not being seen as an independent neutral broker of accurate
information" to "playing geopolitics for keeps is dangerous".


--
-george william herbert
[hidden email]

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Waerth
In reply to this post by Robert Rohde

>>> /09/1323220.shtml
>>>      
>> Donations to WMDE are apparently coming in very fast because of this:
>> http://wiwowo.blogspot.com/2008/11/internet-cannot-be-censured.html
>>
>> I'm reluctant to advocate upset politicians as a fundraising tool, but ...
>>    
>
> In addition to the very large jump (+450%) in donations to the German
> chapter, there was a small jump (+15%) in donations to the WMF.  Now
> 15% isn't a lot to hang a conclusion on, but I think it is still fair
> to say that this political chicanery hasn't hurt WMF fundraising
> efforts either.
>  
So we should send the guy flowers and thank him publicly with a banner
for suing us! O:-)
Or is that to humiliating for him :)

Now let's see which other politicians can we upset to have them start a
lawsuit :-D

W

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Thomas Dalton
> So we should send the guy flowers and thank him publicly with a banner
> for suing us! O:-)
> Or is that to humiliating for him :)

I think publicly thanking the donors for supporting us against him
would be sufficiently humiliating without being petty.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

geni
In reply to this post by George William Herbert
2008/11/17 George Herbert <[hidden email]>:
> to "playing geopolitics for keeps is dangerous".


At little late there. At least if the McCain speechwriter plagiarism
accusations have any truth in them.


--
geni

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Ray Saintonge
In reply to this post by George William Herbert
George Herbert wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>> Who wants to go poke Mugabe, maybe we will get even more money?
>>    
> I appreciate the motivation, but please let's not go there.
>
> The possible issues have some rather serious downsides, ranging from
> "WMF not being seen as an independent neutral broker of accurate
> information" to "playing geopolitics for keeps is dangerous".
>
>
>  
It also needs to be remembered that the people in Germany who may have
responded to this incident had the money to give in the first place. The
people in Zimbabwe who might be responsive to such a situation are
faci8ng hyper-inflation and are unlikely to have the funds to give.

Even if we can get past the neutrality and fiscal issue we still don't
have a Zimbabwean chapter to reap the benefits.

Ec

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Gerard Meijssen-3
Hoi,
The Zimbabwean dollar has $ as its symbol. The text in the fund raising
banner talks about a $6 million goal. Somehow I doubt that Paypal accepts
Zimbabwean $$. That is a good thing :)
Thanks,
      GerardM

On Wed, Nov 19, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Ray Saintonge <[hidden email]> wrote:

> George Herbert wrote:
> > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Who wants to go poke Mugabe, maybe we will get even more money?
> >>
> > I appreciate the motivation, but please let's not go there.
> >
> > The possible issues have some rather serious downsides, ranging from
> > "WMF not being seen as an independent neutral broker of accurate
> > information" to "playing geopolitics for keeps is dangerous".
> >
> >
> >
> It also needs to be remembered that the people in Germany who may have
> responded to this incident had the money to give in the first place. The
> people in Zimbabwe who might be responsive to such a situation are
> faci8ng hyper-inflation and are unlikely to have the funds to give.
>
> Even if we can get past the neutrality and fiscal issue we still don't
> have a Zimbabwean chapter to reap the benefits.
>
> Ec
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Geoffrey Plourde
In reply to this post by Ray Saintonge
Maybe we need a Wikimedia Zimbabwe in exile, or a Wikimedia China in Exile....




________________________________
From: Ray Saintonge <[hidden email]>
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List <[hidden email]>
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 12:49:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] wikipedia.de shut down

George Herbert wrote:

> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 10:41 PM, Geoffrey Plourde <[hidden email]> wrote:

>> Who wants to go poke Mugabe, maybe we will get even more money?
>>   
> I appreciate the motivation, but please let's not go there.
>
> The possible issues have some rather serious downsides, ranging from
> "WMF not being seen as an independent neutral broker of accurate
> information" to "playing geopolitics for keeps is dangerous".
>
>
It also needs to be remembered that the people in Germany who may have
responded to this incident had the money to give in the first place. The
people in Zimbabwe who might be responsive to such a situation are
faci8ng hyper-inflation and are unlikely to have the funds to give.

Even if we can get past the neutrality and fiscal issue we still don't
have a Zimbabwean chapter to reap the benefits.

Ec

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l



     
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: wikipedia.de shut down

Ziko van Dijk
In reply to this post by Ian A. Holton
In order not to let a wrong impression slip into the collective long-term
memory:

Heilmann complained about several points in "his" article, some more, some
less worth considerable. It was also about his private life. So, reducing it
to his Stasi past or saying that he is using "Stasi methods" - as it has
been done numerously - would be too shortsighted. (Stasi methods would
include socket poppetry, checkusing, and brutal killing making it look like
an accident.)

In a way, the Heilmann case is somewhere between "Mainland China" and
"Seigenthaler". Certainly Heilmann showed an incredible naivity about the
Wikimedia universe and the consequences of his legal actions. For a couple
of days the media heavily critizised on him, and they were right to do so.
But later that issue was out, and a new view came up: several quality (also:
non left) newspapers stressed out that the Heilmann case dealt with some
serious problems of the Wikipedia principle of openess.

We Wikipedians should not think too lighthearty about the case, although we
certainly enjoyed the huge public support.

Ziko



2008/11/16 Ian A. Holton <[hidden email]>

> The controversy was about mentioning his past in the former East German
> Stasi - something he had not told the truth about to the general public
> during the election (according to the Wikipedia article and the sources
> named, which amongst others is Der Spiegel). The information, and sources,
> seem all very reliable and pass all criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia.
>
> Techcrunch[1] also mentions claims of threats against ex-boyfriends - I
> couldn't find any when I checked this morning, so they might have been
> removed in accordance with policy.
>
> This isn't the first time the German chapter has had an interim injunction
> issued against them[2], but everytime the matter has been resolved in a
> professional manner and the media have been very pro-Wiki.[3][4]
>
> Ian
> [[User:Poeloq]]
>
> [1]
>
> http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/11/16/german-politician-blocks-local-wikipedia/
> [2] http://www.toytowngermany.com/lofi/index.php/t28622.html
> [3] http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number4.2/wikipedia
> [4] http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/06/02/09/1323220.shtml
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 9:50 PM, effe iets anders
> <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > for the interested: *Keine weiteren juristischen Schritte gegen
> Wikipedia*
> > : http://www.lutz-heilmann.info/
> >
> > 2008/11/16 Magnus Manske <[hidden email]>
> >
> > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2008 at 1:21 PM, Bryan Tong Minh
> > > <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > > > Apparently the German portal on wikipedia.de has been shut down
> after
> > > > a legal case. Is there any more information on this?
> > > > http://www.wikipedia.de/
> > >
> > > Apparently, some German communist politician was angry about something
> > > in "his" article, so he got a court order to prevent forwarding from
> > > wikipedia.de to de.wikipedia.org.
> > >
> > > On his web page, above politician now says he won't proceed further
> > > against the German chapter (who owns wikipedia.de), which might mean
> > > the forwarding can be reestablished soon.
> > >
> > > Magnus
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > foundation-l mailing list
> > > [hidden email]
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> [hidden email]
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>



--
Ziko van Dijk
NL-Silvolde
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
[hidden email]
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
12