women as an example- elderly man googling

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women as an example- elderly man googling

Kathleen McCook
The point is that the number of women editors is far smaller than men.
Is this not true, based on the statistics?
 I am giving some reasons why many capable new contributors may withdraw
due to the response they receive from some editors.
Every woman is not Molly Ivins and when women leave as contributors process
it is because they do not want to suffer the experience a second time once
they are made to feel inadequate or not credible or whatever harsh language
has been used when their work has been rejected. The community loses many
good contributors due to the meanness of the process. I am speaking from
the experience of some women students who were not comfortable with the
taunting, aggressive response they received if one of their contributions
was deleted.

There is no reason for anyone to feel intellectually abused. It is
perfectly possible to reject, undo or request changes in a manner that is
civil and does not make the contributor feel diminished.



On Sun, Sep 9, 2012 at 7:39 AM, Fred Bauder <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Everybody here who contributes runs into a brick wall from time to time
> and has to give up regarding some matter. The factual basis of the theory
> about gender you're advancing is not established; as everyone experiences
> the same frustrations.
>
> I've tried to edit certain articles controlled by point of view editors,
> doggedly advancing good sources while they relied on biased sources and
> been completely defeated. All it takes is two or three independent and
> determined point of view pushers and you're done. It does make you want
> to give up, fork the project, and rant and rave. Molly Ivins would be a
> good model for women editors. She didn't give up; she raised hell, and
> made everyone laugh doing it.
>
> Fred
>
> > The Wikipedia community fosters a young male zeitgeist.This IS an
> > attitude
> > problem that causes women to drop out. I have been a long time low level
> > contributor and thus have had a variety of response to efforts I have
> > made.
> > Persistence has shown me that what one editor sees as "not credible" may
> > be
> > that particular editor's world view and a contributor--CANNOT, EVER-
> > change
> > the mind of most editors. So one needs to give up on that point, even if
> > you have gone to primary sources and have them on your table in front of
> > you. You have to move on. However, this resigned way of working w/in
> > Wikipedia is not going to be the way that many people approach it.
> > Rebuffed
> > or being called  "not credible" will mean we lose many contributors. It
> > should not be on the contributor to understand the editor. Contributors
> > come from all ages and societies. There are far fewer women contributing
> > than men. Why? Women take the harsh rebukes with more hurt. Really.
> >
> > I am a teacher and suggest that students write for Wikipedia. Invariably
> > the female students have been  made to feel stupid by editors and won't
> > go
> > back. The male students are more likely to keep at it. This is the
> > culture
> > that Wikipedia fosters.  There are many exceptions….but generally, the
> > tone
> > could be less harsh in dealing with contributors.
> >
> > ==============
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 8, 2012 at 11:35 AM, David Gerard <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 8 September 2012 15:43, Thomas Morton <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I haven't had chance to look into this;
> >>
> >>
> >> That statement invalidates this statement:
> >>
> >>
> >> > Rather than whining about him we need to see the problem; it's an
> >> > attitude problem HERE.
> >>
> >>
> >>  -d.
> >>
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > [hidden email]
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
>
>
>
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Re: women as an example- elderly man googling

Fred Bauder-2
> The point is that the number of women editors is far smaller than men.
> Is this not true, based on the statistics?
>  I am giving some reasons why many capable new contributors may withdraw
> due to the response they receive from some editors.
> Every woman is not Molly Ivins and when women leave as contributors
> process
> it is because they do not want to suffer the experience a second time
> once
> they are made to feel inadequate or not credible or whatever harsh
> language
> has been used when their work has been rejected. The community loses many
> good contributors due to the meanness of the process. I am speaking from
> the experience of some women students who were not comfortable with the
> taunting, aggressive response they received if one of their contributions
> was deleted.
>
> There is no reason for anyone to feel intellectually abused. It is
> perfectly possible to reject, undo or request changes in a manner that is
> civil and does not make the contributor feel diminished.

True, but simply making rules and trying to enforce them strictly does
not solve the problem. What is required is development of a community
culture of civility, patience, and kindness.

Fred


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